Monaghan Forum

Championship 2019

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We got what we deserved.
Jaysus - we won't hear the end of dis.

Knoxboya (Monaghan) - Posts: 284 - 18/05/2019 20:48:09    2185307

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Think those of who watched the league were afraid this kind of performance was coming in the summer. They made a good fist of the second half but Christ that first half was light years from the best Monaghan displays under o rourke. The game was nearly over at half time. The big 70 min performances are not in the legs of a lot of lads any longer and definitely a team in decline. Think malachy who has done a great job should mix it up a little for the qualifers and give the mcginn s and mccarthys starting roles leave McManus to come off the bench. Try to get kerr back also team needs a bit of energy. One positive thought Kieran Hughes was outstanding all game and done his best to drag us back into it. They will improve in the qualifers with Kearns and Darren hughes back but won't be enough to do anything come the big days.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1465 - 18/05/2019 21:34:56    2185324

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Replying To Knoxboya:  "We got what we deserved.
Jaysus - we won't hear the end of dis."
Longford...down...Fermanagh....Cavan.
..! If Kilkenny had a football team they would beat us.

Roll on 2020!

Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 491 - 18/05/2019 22:23:20    2185341

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Replying To seanie08:  "Think those of who watched the league were afraid this kind of performance was coming in the summer. They made a good fist of the second half but Christ that first half was light years from the best Monaghan displays under o rourke. The game was nearly over at half time. The big 70 min performances are not in the legs of a lot of lads any longer and definitely a team in decline. Think malachy who has done a great job should mix it up a little for the qualifers and give the mcginn s and mccarthys starting roles leave McManus to come off the bench. Try to get kerr back also team needs a bit of energy. One positive thought Kieran Hughes was outstanding all game and done his best to drag us back into it. They will improve in the qualifers with Kearns and Darren hughes back but won't be enough to do anything come the big days."
McManus coming off the bench..he's by miles our best player..Drew Wylie needs to be dropped immediately he was completely off the pace tonight..management thought paudie mckenna was worth a start I wonder what goes through Malachys head sometimes.

Monaghan2000 (Monaghan) - Posts: 39 - 18/05/2019 22:35:11    2185346

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Replying To seanie08:  "Think those of who watched the league were afraid this kind of performance was coming in the summer. They made a good fist of the second half but Christ that first half was light years from the best Monaghan displays under o rourke. The game was nearly over at half time. The big 70 min performances are not in the legs of a lot of lads any longer and definitely a team in decline. Think malachy who has done a great job should mix it up a little for the qualifers and give the mcginn s and mccarthys starting roles leave McManus to come off the bench. Try to get kerr back also team needs a bit of energy. One positive thought Kieran Hughes was outstanding all game and done his best to drag us back into it. They will improve in the qualifers with Kearns and Darren hughes back but won't be enough to do anything come the big days."
I agree some of our best players do not have the legs to run for 70 mins from one end of the field to the other which is all the more reason to question our first half tactics of packing the defence followed by a slow build up giving Cavan time to filter back. We have lost many matches using the exact same game plan. Dick Clerkin's analysis at half time was spot on but our management, as usual, were totally oblivious to the problem.

expat345 (Monaghan) - Posts: 26 - 18/05/2019 23:07:41    2185355

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Devastating defeat, just never got going bar maybe a 10 minute spell in the second half. Hope no one jumps to any rash conclusions about Malachy after that game, had us within a kick of a ball of an All Ireland Final last year and I still trust him. I'd imagine Martin Corey had a fairly big part to play, he'd know every single player on the Monaghan panel like the back of his hand.
Takes from the game - O'Hanlon is probably best suited to coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes, to run at tired legs. That's only for this year of course, he's a future starter in my books. Start McCarthy from now on.
Would it be crazy to take McManus out to centre-half forward? He's played a lot of his best club football at 11 and it's very hard to double mark from out there. Even just rotate him every 15-20 mins and leave Kieran Hughes and McCarthy inside. Would add something different to our game.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 18/05/2019 23:49:02    2185368

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Replying To Bernardo:  "Longford...down...Fermanagh....Cavan.
..! If Kilkenny had a football team they would beat us.

Roll on 2020!"
As a Cavan man, you are entitled to enjoy your hour.

Knoxboya (Monaghan) - Posts: 284 - 18/05/2019 23:52:16    2185371

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Replying To expat345:  "I agree some of our best players do not have the legs to run for 70 mins from one end of the field to the other which is all the more reason to question our first half tactics of packing the defence followed by a slow build up giving Cavan time to filter back. We have lost many matches using the exact same game plan. Dick Clerkin's analysis at half time was spot on but our management, as usual, were totally oblivious to the problem."
Malachy should hang his head in shame with that game plan. Cavan played with 3 up front while we had just 2...... embarassing.
While we were playing fist ball slowly up the field Cavan were hitting simple balls on front of their 3 forwards.
Fair play to Graham....he wiped the floor with Malachy tonight.
I thought we got over this 'stone age' approach in recent times & were mixing it up with more kick passing on front of our forwards....well Malachy you can't do this with 2 up front !
Basic tactics from Cavan with simple kicked passes into forwards while we were continually trying all sorts of intricate stuff & only confusing ourselves.
Well done Mickey Graham...football was the winner today !

Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 171 - 19/05/2019 00:25:27    2185376

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Very disappointing but we could see it coming - Firsly this team and mgt have gave us a great run but we are finished Now. Only c Boyle and K hughes performed tonight. Walsh , o Connell and d wylie havnt been at the races all season. O Connell woeful effort at a tackle on m reilly when he kicked in the long ball for a Cavan point just before ht summed up our first half. Gutless
Carey , Ward , Mc anespie all way below par and no threat whatsoever as was o Hanlon who lost 6-7 balls. The likes of b Kerr in your face tackling was sorely missed. Second half we improved and in fairness the Penobscot looked soft and gave Cavan a great cushion. Very doubtful we will come through a back door this time. Lastly so sickening to see m Corey running on the pitch giving Cavan players instructions

FrankAnnyalla (Monaghan) - Posts: 324 - 19/05/2019 07:35:31    2185396

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Replying To Monodrone13:  "Gotta laugh at these Cavan folk who either think a) it'll be tight or b) cavan will win. Monaghan by 6+"
B - Cavan to win ,,

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 286 - 19/05/2019 09:49:07    2185416

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Replying To HB245:  "Devastating defeat, just never got going bar maybe a 10 minute spell in the second half. Hope no one jumps to any rash conclusions about Malachy after that game, had us within a kick of a ball of an All Ireland Final last year and I still trust him. I'd imagine Martin Corey had a fairly big part to play, he'd know every single player on the Monaghan panel like the back of his hand.
Takes from the game - O'Hanlon is probably best suited to coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes, to run at tired legs. That's only for this year of course, he's a future starter in my books. Start McCarthy from now on.
Would it be crazy to take McManus out to centre-half forward? He's played a lot of his best club football at 11 and it's very hard to double mark from out there. Even just rotate him every 15-20 mins and leave Kieran Hughes and McCarthy inside. Would add something different to our game."
Cavan didn't double mark McManus. Faulkner done a great job on him as he usually does. Monaghan really need to blood the young lads. Wylie was so loose unreal. Kieran Hughes was class. Obviously ye were missing players.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 19/05/2019 10:01:21    2185421

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Think yous probably need a change of management and a squad rebuild. There's a lot of mileage in the likes of Wylie, McManus and Hughes. Key players, but they're in decline.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 372 - 19/05/2019 10:29:25    2185427

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Replying To HB245:  "Devastating defeat, just never got going bar maybe a 10 minute spell in the second half. Hope no one jumps to any rash conclusions about Malachy after that game, had us within a kick of a ball of an All Ireland Final last year and I still trust him. I'd imagine Martin Corey had a fairly big part to play, he'd know every single player on the Monaghan panel like the back of his hand.
Takes from the game - O'Hanlon is probably best suited to coming off the bench for the last 20 minutes, to run at tired legs. That's only for this year of course, he's a future starter in my books. Start McCarthy from now on.
Would it be crazy to take McManus out to centre-half forward? He's played a lot of his best club football at 11 and it's very hard to double mark from out there. Even just rotate him every 15-20 mins and leave Kieran Hughes and McCarthy inside. Would add something different to our game."
Not jump to reach conclusions you say??? This has been a trend over his time in charge..... and this time in a first round game where he had time to do his legendary "homework"and prep for an opponent. Would have died him better to be watching our own club games than going to watch cavan ones. If he seriously thinks that paudie McKenna is in the top 15 in the county even with all the injuries then he is seriously deluded and needs to go now. Makes more sense out of all the young lads opting out if that's what they were seeing. And what has McGinn to do to be considered?

ginelli (Monaghan) - Posts: 43 - 19/05/2019 10:55:56    2185433

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Firstly, I'm knocking complacency on the head. Cavan wanted it more than we did, that's what underdogs do, just like we were v Donegal in 2013. What favourites are supposed to do is use their experience and know how to counteract that. We did not do that. The bottom line is that Cavan won because they took their scores far better than we did. They scored 3 or 4 points in the first half from distances that we wouldn't even shoot from. 1-13 is a decent score but Derry scored it last weekend while losing by 6. Our 12 points didn't deserve to win any match, in fact we barely got over Cavan's half time total. Also our inability to create a goal scoring chance in the whole game, a worrying trend that has been a feature of us for a while now, came back to haunt us. 3 Ulster Finals, 3 All Ireland QF and 1 semi final and one goal in almost 500 minutes is more than a coincidence.
Cavan had their homework done. Mansy was treble teamed the moment he received the ball which meant he either had to shoot under immense pressure or he had to pass off to a teammate who probably recycled anyway.
In regards to the penalty, it simply wasn't but there was 65 minutes to go, we had plenty of time to get back in the game if we were good enough, we weren't. And in fairness, the ball into the forward before he dived deserved a goal. Later in the first half, Kieran Hughes (who was very good) was unmarked on the edge of the small square, waving his hands, the Monaghan player saw him, and turned around and….. you guessed it - recycled. It would have been a 25 yard diagonal and at worst, if it failed Cavan would have had possession in their own 13. Fortune favours the brave and punishes the timid. We were very timid. We have a set of tactics that are predicated on us not conceding a goal because we want to turn everything into an armwrestle.

I think the management have to have a long look at themselves. Cavan had white line fever in the last 10 minutes so they just passed the ball around to each other, going absolutely nowhere. This was a championship game, how much more annoyed would I be this morning if we'd lost by 8 or by 4? None! We had to crowd their half of the pitch and try to suffocate them. Of course it would have been risky but that's the price you pay for being 4 points down with 10 to go. But we blithely sat back in our rigid positions and looked on as they ran the clock down. Exactly like we did after the Fermanagh goal last year. Then, when we did get possession, we were too eager to get it up the field asap and forced passes that weren't on. So as usual we've lost a big game in a whimper. When are we ever going to go down swinging?
Lastly, in relation to Drew. I know I'm a clubmate of his and I'm probably more biased than most. But, surely it's time that we actually start playing this dedicated, hard, giant of a man in a position that would benefit both him and his county? I've been banging this drum for a while now. I don't think Drew was ever suited to the full back line but it is a measure of his application, skill and desire that he has 3 All Star nominations for playing in that position. And yes, he has lost a yard of pace. But Darren Hughes isn't a speedster, are we going to play him full back when he returns? No, because he's more use elsewhere. So is Drew. His ball winning and ability to beat a tackle would be a huge addition in the middle of the field, especially in Darren's absence. People have, quite rightly, asked who would take over from Drew at full back, well yesterday had an answer for that question in Conor Boyle's performance which was his best in the Farney jersey.
In 2006, Kieran Donaghy changed football. His first game at full forward for Kerry was v Longford in a qualifier after Kerry had limped out of the Munster Championship to Cork. Kerry rolled the dice and were rewarded. We need to do the same because we are predictable and blunt and scaring no one.We need something to kickstart this championship, maybe Drew to midfield is that. But we have to do something because the same old, same old isn't going to work anymore. Despite all the success and spending 6 years as a Division One side, I think we still have this air of negativity about us and it's time to take off the tactical straitjacket and go for it.

We're probably going to be away in the Qualifiers due to that Div 3 / 4 at home rule. Could do with avoiding Derry and the losers of the Armagh v Down game. There's plenty of flotsam and jetsam out there, let's hope we get one of them and meet these Cavan boys down the road.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 451 - 19/05/2019 11:06:37    2185436

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Think yous probably need a change of management and a squad rebuild. There's a lot of mileage in the likes of Wylie, McManus and Hughes. Key players, but they're in decline."
Shambles, you do talk some rubbish. While as a cavan man I'm delighted to get one over Monaghan the idea that they are finished and should change manager is crazy. What o Rourke has done there is incredible and monaghan would be insane to remove him. That said he may choose to leave. As a cavan man I'd rather he was gone.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1310 - 19/05/2019 11:07:29    2185437

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Replying To fredflint:  "Shambles, you do talk some rubbish. While as a cavan man I'm delighted to get one over Monaghan the idea that they are finished and should change manager is crazy. What o Rourke has done there is incredible and monaghan would be insane to remove him. That said he may choose to leave. As a cavan man I'd rather he was gone."
Conspiracy Fred, if you knew anything about sport in general you'd know that nothing lasts forever. This key personnel in this Monaghan team are in decline. A quick look at the age profile in yesterday's programme will tell you that.

Nobody disputes what O'Rourke has done, so leave your strawman arguments out of it.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 372 - 19/05/2019 11:50:17    2185447

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Conspiracy Fred, if you knew anything about sport in general you'd know that nothing lasts forever. This key personnel in this Monaghan team are in decline. A quick look at the age profile in yesterday's programme will tell you that.

Nobody disputes what O'Rourke has done, so leave your strawman arguments out of it."
You called for the manager to be replaced in your 1st post.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1310 - 19/05/2019 12:34:59    2185464

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Replying To Knoxboya:  "As a Cavan man, you are entitled to enjoy your hour."
Knox's east is in Cavan Knox's west in Monaghan. I am from Monaghan.

Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 491 - 19/05/2019 15:12:13    2185501

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "Firstly, I'm knocking complacency on the head. Cavan wanted it more than we did, that's what underdogs do, just like we were v Donegal in 2013. What favourites are supposed to do is use their experience and know how to counteract that. We did not do that. The bottom line is that Cavan won because they took their scores far better than we did. They scored 3 or 4 points in the first half from distances that we wouldn't even shoot from. 1-13 is a decent score but Derry scored it last weekend while losing by 6. Our 12 points didn't deserve to win any match, in fact we barely got over Cavan's half time total. Also our inability to create a goal scoring chance in the whole game, a worrying trend that has been a feature of us for a while now, came back to haunt us. 3 Ulster Finals, 3 All Ireland QF and 1 semi final and one goal in almost 500 minutes is more than a coincidence.
Cavan had their homework done. Mansy was treble teamed the moment he received the ball which meant he either had to shoot under immense pressure or he had to pass off to a teammate who probably recycled anyway.
In regards to the penalty, it simply wasn't but there was 65 minutes to go, we had plenty of time to get back in the game if we were good enough, we weren't. And in fairness, the ball into the forward before he dived deserved a goal. Later in the first half, Kieran Hughes (who was very good) was unmarked on the edge of the small square, waving his hands, the Monaghan player saw him, and turned around and….. you guessed it - recycled. It would have been a 25 yard diagonal and at worst, if it failed Cavan would have had possession in their own 13. Fortune favours the brave and punishes the timid. We were very timid. We have a set of tactics that are predicated on us not conceding a goal because we want to turn everything into an armwrestle.

I think the management have to have a long look at themselves. Cavan had white line fever in the last 10 minutes so they just passed the ball around to each other, going absolutely nowhere. This was a championship game, how much more annoyed would I be this morning if we'd lost by 8 or by 4? None! We had to crowd their half of the pitch and try to suffocate them. Of course it would have been risky but that's the price you pay for being 4 points down with 10 to go. But we blithely sat back in our rigid positions and looked on as they ran the clock down. Exactly like we did after the Fermanagh goal last year. Then, when we did get possession, we were too eager to get it up the field asap and forced passes that weren't on. So as usual we've lost a big game in a whimper. When are we ever going to go down swinging?
Lastly, in relation to Drew. I know I'm a clubmate of his and I'm probably more biased than most. But, surely it's time that we actually start playing this dedicated, hard, giant of a man in a position that would benefit both him and his county? I've been banging this drum for a while now. I don't think Drew was ever suited to the full back line but it is a measure of his application, skill and desire that he has 3 All Star nominations for playing in that position. And yes, he has lost a yard of pace. But Darren Hughes isn't a speedster, are we going to play him full back when he returns? No, because he's more use elsewhere. So is Drew. His ball winning and ability to beat a tackle would be a huge addition in the middle of the field, especially in Darren's absence. People have, quite rightly, asked who would take over from Drew at full back, well yesterday had an answer for that question in Conor Boyle's performance which was his best in the Farney jersey.
In 2006, Kieran Donaghy changed football. His first game at full forward for Kerry was v Longford in a qualifier after Kerry had limped out of the Munster Championship to Cork. Kerry rolled the dice and were rewarded. We need to do the same because we are predictable and blunt and scaring no one.We need something to kickstart this championship, maybe Drew to midfield is that. But we have to do something because the same old, same old isn't going to work anymore. Despite all the success and spending 6 years as a Division One side, I think we still have this air of negativity about us and it's time to take off the tactical straitjacket and go for it.

We're probably going to be away in the Qualifiers due to that Div 3 / 4 at home rule. Could do with avoiding Derry and the losers of the Armagh v Down game. There's plenty of flotsam and jetsam out there, let's hope we get one of them and meet these Cavan boys down the road."
Good post. We need to mix it up. Drew midfield beside Niall, Mansy half forward, jack half forward, kieran full forward either side of McCarthy and Ohanlon. When Darren returns I would play him center half back with Boyle full back.

FarneyLenny (Monaghan) - Posts: 110 - 19/05/2019 15:55:08    2185504

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "Cavan didn't double mark McManus. Faulkner done a great job on him as he usually does. Monaghan really need to blood the young lads. Wylie was so loose unreal. Kieran Hughes was class. Obviously ye were missing players."
Faulker had the help of a sweeper being back there at all times, 1 on 1 vs any defender - McManus is giving them the run around. That's no knock on Faulkner.
We need to get our main man on the ball more and it would be a lot easier if he was playing at 11, with maybe Hughes / McCarthy inside. It's worth a try in the qualifiers.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 19/05/2019 15:58:26    2185505

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