|
Can Ballyfad resume the place of Tara Rocks now in intermediate hurling? Or what are the rules in place there?
ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 20 - 14/11/2025 10:35:21
2644410
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ElGranSenor: "Can I ask an honest historical question?
My understanding was that the "Old" Shamrocks weren't based in Templeshannon like the "Current" Shamrocks are
And I had always thought that St Aidan's were the hurling club for the Cathedral side of the town
Were St Aidan's and Shamrock the two old hurling clubs and then Emmets and Starlights the two old football clubs?
And which parts of Enniscorthy did the four cover?" As Viking touches on above, the history of GAA clubs in Enniscorthy is a complicated one. And some of the details are murky or overlap and contradict each other depending on who you talk to, because available records aren't exactly clear and different people remember the same things in different ways.
My understanding is that the "old" Shamrocks drew largely from the Templeshannon side of town, but not exclusively so. Anyone in town could go play for them - much as anyone in Gorey today could go play for Tara Rocks.
What is known is that the club that won Senior Hurling 1969 was one of the clubs that amalgamated in 1971 to form Rapparees/Starlights (which is actually officially known as "Enniscorthy Town Hurling & Football Club").
There was then no Shamrocks club at all for a number of years, until the current one formed. Viking reckons above this was in the 1970s, but I'd swear it must have been early to mid 1980s. I remember an uncle of mine (since deceased) who hurled with that '69 team and went on to play with the "new" Rapparees club in the 70s giving out about "that new crowd in the Shannon claiming our title", and if he was making those complaints in the 70s, I'd have been no more than seven years old at the time.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 14/11/2025 10:35:47
2644411
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "Yellaman the parish boundaries are GAA rules so we can't change them altogether down here by ourselves. The bylaws we have we probably could though." The overarching GAA rule is actually just that counties may use bye-laws to define club catchment areas, or may choose not to define catchment areas at all.
Dublin (for example) choose not to define them, and that's why you'll often hear it said that "there's no parish rule in Dublin".
The overarching rule also says that where counties choose to define catchment areas, they can do using parish boundaries, or any other means.
So again, the sort of new boundaries you suggested would very much be possible under the Rule Book. But whatever we might think differently about the pros and cons of it, we can probably agree that trying to do so would be difficult in practice.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 14/11/2025 10:50:12
2644415
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "Heard the same, going it alone underage also, going to start at U6's U8's etc and try and work there way up." Not to be sceptical, but sounds much like the plan Clonee had about seven or eight years ago. Remember them??
Big difference though is that Tara Rocks has a far bigger population on its doorstep to try attract players from. I genuinely wish them well if that's the way they end up going.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 14/11/2025 10:54:00
2644416
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "mq0ca5g9yyh7xvbj91ub.pdf https://share.google/02jRWAZwhE9zHDX4v
Just did a bit of reading up over breakfast. Enniscorthy was all one parish in 1972. It only got split in half in the late 70s. Starlights fielded hurling teams in the 1930s, apparently Nicky Rackard played for them back then. St Aidans played Football in the 50s. Emmets were Football only. Apparently ODonnell, Kehoe, Foley, Ryan and Dixon wouldn't set foot inside the new club when it was formed. Not sure about Wheeler hes not mentioned, but I do know Jim Morrissey felt like an outsider when he moved up there in 1960, despite his brother Ted playing there and winning around 7 or 8 Senior titles and captaining the Aidans for a while!" Very interesting!
Makes you wonder about Shamrocks's current status, Senior in 2015 but have gone backwards at a rate of knots since
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 703 - 14/11/2025 11:10:59
2644426
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "Yellaman the parish boundaries are GAA rules so we can't change them altogether down here by ourselves. The bylaws we have we probably could though." I know it's a complex situation, but the parish rule is being disregarded by several clubs. I don't have exact figures but I'd bet that almost every rural club would not be 100% legit.
Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 200 - 14/11/2025 13:10:16
2644441
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Yellaman: "I know it's a complex situation, but the parish rule is being disregarded by several clubs. I don't have exact figures but I'd bet that almost every rural club would not be 100% legit." I'm not sure the rules are being broken as often as you say. Remember we have a by law that states if you go to school in a parish you can play for that parish. Think it gets more complicated as regards town.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17527 - 14/11/2025 13:26:44
2644443
Link
0
|
|
Clonee and Tara rocks are essentially clubs which were/are sustained over the years by a collection of people who fell out with other clubs. When you have a club full of people liable to fall out enough to leave a club for another, well don't be surprised if that club struggles to progress.
With regard to Kilanerin/Ballyfad/Tara rocks
It's time to let Tara Rocks either sink or swim. When fielding on their own they had incentive to recruit players, convince lukewarm players to play etc. Since amalgamation, they had less motivation/need to do that and therefore players fell by the wayside.
Their main priority as a club should be to build underage and start fielding at under 10 and 12 and focus on fielding an adult side, even if it has to be in the bottom grade . If they can't field, then their remaining few players can go as isolated players elsewhere.
It's obvious that the current arrangement has not achieved the objectives it was set up to achieve and therefore a different solution is needed.
From a championship grading point of view the solution is simple. Tara rocks currently have intermediate and junior a teams. If they split the Ballyfad team would be intermediate standard and the Tara Rocks team would be junior A standard. Simple.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 538 - 14/11/2025 14:44:49
2644452
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ontheball247: "Can Ballyfad resume the place of Tara Rocks now in intermediate hurling? Or what are the rules in place there?" I would be fairly sure Ballyfad would be intermediate (they would be fine at this grade) and Tara Rocks would probably look to go in at Junior A more than likely. If they went Junior A, bit of headache for county board to run the groups, two would have to be relegated that year.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 555 - 14/11/2025 16:43:20
2644464
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Onfor15: "Clonee and Tara rocks are essentially clubs which were/are sustained over the years by a collection of people who fell out with other clubs. When you have a club full of people liable to fall out enough to leave a club for another, well don't be surprised if that club struggles to progress.
With regard to Kilanerin/Ballyfad/Tara rocks
It's time to let Tara Rocks either sink or swim. When fielding on their own they had incentive to recruit players, convince lukewarm players to play etc. Since amalgamation, they had less motivation/need to do that and therefore players fell by the wayside.
Their main priority as a club should be to build underage and start fielding at under 10 and 12 and focus on fielding an adult side, even if it has to be in the bottom grade . If they can't field, then their remaining few players can go as isolated players elsewhere.
It's obvious that the current arrangement has not achieved the objectives it was set up to achieve and therefore a different solution is needed.
From a championship grading point of view the solution is simple. Tara rocks currently have intermediate and junior a teams. If they split the Ballyfad team would be intermediate standard and the Tara Rocks team would be junior A standard. Simple." I'd give just a big thumbs up emoji here if I could. Instead, I'll say absolute 100% sense with every bit of that post.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 14/11/2025 16:45:06
2644465
Link
0
|
|
Had a quick look through old newspapers, the earliest that I can find Ballyfad having a hurling team was in 1969, maybe someone could correct me on this?
I found an article with the heading 'Shamrocks reformed by Popular demand' in 1980. Although as stated above that isnt enterally true as the old Shamrocks team joined with St. Aidans to form the Rapparees. So this is essentially a new team. The article goes on to state that many of the former members and all ireland player Davy Fortune are members. The article further states 'there are those in the existing senior hurling club St. Aidans who do not like it and obviously people attached to the current senior hurling club who do not like it (Rapparees) but competition is the life of the GAA. I was further informed that Shamrocks (formally) would draw there strength from the east side of the town, the club would cater from players from the western side of the town. Enniscorthy of course is divided into two parishes and as far as the age limit of competition goes this may prove a headache for those who administer the affairs of the GAA. Will the parish rule be applied?
So they were even debating parish rules back then, not much has changed
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 555 - 14/11/2025 17:02:54
2644467
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "Ballygarrett and Riverchapel play together but they are separate parishes, So not sure when they joined together but hurling would of been traditionally Ballygarrett and then the footbal club would of been Realt na Mara (Riverchapel). When you look at the size of Riverchapel, its kinda of amazing Ballygarrett arent doing better. I suppose soccer soccer would be big in that area. Ballygarrett do have a pitch in Riverchapel as far as I know. Not sure how often its used." To be fair you probably couldn't get two more diverse groups in a club between a rural village in Ballygarrett and then Riverchapel. It's not the only reason but Dunbar being allowed to transfer out the road was a huge blow to them. Soccer is big there for sure but still should be stronger at GAA. Shoulder to the wheel is all they can do to turn things around.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 473 - 15/11/2025 01:14:06
2644503
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "Had a quick look through old newspapers, the earliest that I can find Ballyfad having a hurling team was in 1969, maybe someone could correct me on this?
I found an article with the heading 'Shamrocks reformed by Popular demand' in 1980. Although as stated above that isnt enterally true as the old Shamrocks team joined with St. Aidans to form the Rapparees. So this is essentially a new team. The article goes on to state that many of the former members and all ireland player Davy Fortune are members. The article further states 'there are those in the existing senior hurling club St. Aidans who do not like it and obviously people attached to the current senior hurling club who do not like it (Rapparees) but competition is the life of the GAA. I was further informed that Shamrocks (formally) would draw there strength from the east side of the town, the club would cater from players from the western side of the town. Enniscorthy of course is divided into two parishes and as far as the age limit of competition goes this may prove a headache for those who administer the affairs of the GAA. Will the parish rule be applied?
So they were even debating parish rules back then, not much has changed" Re. Ballyfad - this is really just hearsay, but I've another uncle who played for Liam Mellows for a few years around early 1960s (was on their team that won Intermediate in 1964), and he always said that their toughest games were against Craanford and Ballyfad in local tournaments. And he meant toughest as in most physical and even violent sometimes.
The way he tells it, Ballyfad were "just" a Junior B club at the time but they loved getting the chance to have a few skelps at the neighbours who were a couple of grades higher. So quite likely they were hurling during those years all right, but at too low a level to have many newspaper mentions.
Back to Shamrocks - looks like it was 1980 that the current club was formed, then. Possible that the first uncle I mentioned was just still giving out about it a few years later, when I was old enough to have some idea of what he was talking about!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3229 - 15/11/2025 11:29:40
2644528
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "I would be fairly sure Ballyfad would be intermediate (they would be fine at this grade) and Tara Rocks would probably look to go in at Junior A more than likely. If they went Junior A, bit of headache for county board to run the groups, two would have to be relegated that year." Not at all. The second team is in that grade as it is.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17527 - 15/11/2025 11:58:16
2644534
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Re. Ballyfad - this is really just hearsay, but I've another uncle who played for Liam Mellows for a few years around early 1960s (was on their team that won Intermediate in 1964), and he always said that their toughest games were against Craanford and Ballyfad in local tournaments. And he meant toughest as in most physical and even violent sometimes.
The way he tells it, Ballyfad were "just" a Junior B club at the time but they loved getting the chance to have a few skelps at the neighbours who were a couple of grades higher. So quite likely they were hurling during those years all right, but at too low a level to have many newspaper mentions.
Back to Shamrocks - looks like it was 1980 that the current club was formed, then. Possible that the first uncle I mentioned was just still giving out about it a few years later, when I was old enough to have some idea of what he was talking about!" Just looked up the bible Ballyfads 1st Junior final was in 1973. Then 1977. Then 1986. They won Junior first in 1998.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17527 - 15/11/2025 13:00:33
2644547
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Re. Ballyfad - this is really just hearsay, but I've another uncle who played for Liam Mellows for a few years around early 1960s (was on their team that won Intermediate in 1964), and he always said that their toughest games were against Craanford and Ballyfad in local tournaments. And he meant toughest as in most physical and even violent sometimes.
The way he tells it, Ballyfad were "just" a Junior B club at the time but they loved getting the chance to have a few skelps at the neighbours who were a couple of grades higher. So quite likely they were hurling during those years all right, but at too low a level to have many newspaper mentions.
Back to Shamrocks - looks like it was 1980 that the current club was formed, then. Possible that the first uncle I mentioned was just still giving out about it a few years later, when I was old enough to have some idea of what he was talking about!" Did the old Shamrocks cover Templeshannon?
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 703 - 15/11/2025 15:43:01
2644575
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ElGranSenor: "Did the old Shamrocks cover Templeshannon?" I think it was all 1 parish back then, so all 4 clubs could play a player from there.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17527 - 15/11/2025 21:17:00
2644641
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "Not at all. The second team is in that grade as it is." Sorry that's a good point. So probably Ballyfad will go intermediate while Tara rocks will slip into junior a. Not much fuss there
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 555 - 16/11/2025 11:00:40
2644702
Link
0
|