Carlow Forum

NFL 2013

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Do Carlow want to be promoted to D3 and come straight back down like Wicklow. Look at the teams in D3 next year,
one from Monaghan/Fermanagh/Meath
Cavan,
Roscommon,
plus one from Antrim/Sligo,
Longford,
one from Galway/Armagh/Louth
Limerick

From those teams cannot see Carlow picking up many points when they are struggling in D4.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 2773 - 19/03/2013 15:18:40    1352062

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I think the point Supersub is making is that its no point in Carlow going up to Div 3 if we are going to come straight back down next year - that might do even more damage if that is possible to the future of football in the county! But one things for sure if we are ever to improve Carlow football we have to get out of this hell hole of a division. Old Mac - all those points you make are very valid. It seems to me that the responsibility of causing them or fixing these problems lies at the feet of the management. A 2 man full forward line does not suit the type of footballers we have here in Carlow - I think we have leaked at least 10 goals with this extra defender. Surely after all these games the management can see this although reading the local papers i'm not sure about that - blaming the ref is always the easier route rather than admit they might have got it wrong on team selection etc. I suggested before that maybe try Sean Gannon as the extra man in the backs and this would release Ray up the field where we desperately need someone who can hold onto the ball and bring the forwards in to the game. I feel sorry for the lads on the pitch who are trying their best - they deserve better!

dual supporter (Carlow) - Posts: 772 - 19/03/2013 15:59:52    1352091

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Youre on the money there dual. Poor poor management. One other thought ,since Hayden was sent off we havent won, now I know its his own fault and he is no good on the line but nevertheless it shows how important a player he is. If only......

pennypincher (Carlow) - Posts: 777 - 19/03/2013 17:16:51    1352179

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Predicting an immediate return to Div 4 IF we were promoted and using it as a reason not to finish in the top two is the greatest load of hogwash on this site. We DON'T know what would happen if we did manage it. If we did manage it the team would grow in confidence and be more committed - so it isnt inevitable that they wont come back down.
We cannot compete in Div 4 on the basis that maybe we would be better off not to be promoted. No county is going to approach Div 4 with a view to building to get out in 2 years or 3....... teams go out to WIN all their games.
Far too much importance being attached to individual players in the team. Big Brendan needs to be a better team player. Ray Walker is back in and its great but he isn't going to add much on the scoreboard even as an out and out forward. Derek Hayden isn't the answer to all our scoring problems either. He does'nt hit the target too often when he is picked in the forwards.
Am I right about McCormack being top scorer last year? Why wouldn't you pick a scoring forward if you have none already?

Maybe this is the reason he plays with an extra defender. He knows Carlow wont trouble the scoreboard operator too much..

oldmcdonald (Carlow) - Posts: 140 - 19/03/2013 17:36:16    1352202

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Bosco,
IMO, for what that's worth, Carlow to get promoted this year was never going to happen, it's a dream we all have at the beginning of every year starting with the O'Byrne cup and before the year is over that dream usually turns into a night mare, so the blame game begins.
Luke Dempsey as we all know was in charge for 4 years, and like him or not during his first two years he worked miracles with Carlow football, the first being he stopped the rot, the second being he got meaning full players to buy into Carlow football, the third being he got them to stick it out through thick and thin and not walk away at the first available opportunity.
The third year he took over the u/21 team and in no time he had them within a whisker of a leinster title, beaten by Dublin by a single point and they in turn went on to win it out, the same year we had a decent enough run in the league finishing in the upper half of the div.
His forth year two things happened, he successfully put in place the back bone of today's team straight up the middle, as in, 1-3-6-8&9 11&15 with a ready made replacement for each of those positions should it be needed, the second thing that happened was during Dempsey's final year was Anthony Rainbow was brought in to "freshen things up". The year ended with Dempsey on the way out, Rainbow on the way in, and Carlow finished third from the bottom of div. 4.
This year we won our first two games the next three, the other counties that are still in with a serious chance of promotion, actually lost their first two games but won the next three, even London who got off to a bad start with a series of losses had a convincing win against all the odds last week end, Leitrim did the same thing and had a convincing win last week end.
Carlow is lying second from the bottom at the moment and personally I can't see that improving especially the way the other counties have learned from their defeats, regrouped and moved on knowing they have a real chance of promotion, where as our chance of promotion rests squarely on a number of miracles happening and a couple of teams not performing on the day. My point being, should everything fall into place and Carlow get promoted, they simply would not have a strong enough team with the ability to stay in div.3, so they would be the first team down next year, IMO the team and the mind set to get Carlow
successfully out of div. 4 most likely won't happen 'till next year, and even then that won't happen unless the CB takes on the responsibility to see it through and make the necessary changes when and where applicable.
Unfortunately that's the way I see it, but then again it's only my humble opinion and my opinion is no better than anyone else on here.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2109 - 19/03/2013 17:48:45    1352212

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Luke Dempsey as we all know was in charge for 4 years, and like him or not during his first two years he worked miracles with Carlow football, the first being he stopped the rot, the second being he got meaning full players to buy into Carlow football, the third being he got them to stick it out through thick and thin and not walk away at the first available opportunity.
The third year he took over the u/21 team and in no time he had them within a whisker of a leinster title, beaten by Dublin by a single point and they in turn went on to win it out, the same year we had a decent enough run in the league finishing in the upper half of the div.
His forth year two things happened, he successfully put in place the back bone of today's team straight up the middle, as in, 1-3-6-8&9 11&15 with a ready made replacement for each of those positions


Ah come on, less of the fantasy. Dempsey did no such thing. We made no progress; stabilised what? Players were left out oft he panel that were and are badly needed. U21?? He costs us two Leinster Final appearances. He put in place the backbone of the team we have today.. he didnt exactly have to buy players like...you know the CLUBS developed them and they wouldnt be there only for that. He didnt have to put in place anything. He is in the same position as every county manager - a pool of club players to choose from. Spouting more Premiership bull...that's what this is!

You people make managers out to be messiahs when this game is very simple.
Pick the best players and train them well. Have a way of playing. Take it from there.

oldmcdonald (Carlow) - Posts: 140 - 19/03/2013 18:17:49    1352227

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The team needs to get out of Div 4. That should be the aim. We will get better if and when we play in the next tier. Without playing better teams we will not progress.
Managers will not win games. The players will. Puttiing the best team forward and planning the tactics are the job of the management team.

Reading the criticism of people here on playing Ray Walker in the backs, shows a particular game plan. Perhaps the management team just believes that we do not have the team to play any other style at present!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1510 - 19/03/2013 18:42:17    1352249

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--- and who may I ask cost the u/21's a leinster final appearance this year in Dempseys absence, or should I say who cost them a second round appearance or was he the cause of the 0-35 hammering also, I could go on.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2109 - 19/03/2013 18:46:53    1352258

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and who may I ask cost the u/21's a leinster final appearance this year in Dempseys absence, or should I say who cost them a second round appearance or was he the cause of the 0-35 hammering also
There is no comparison. The panel this year wouldn't have kept the ball kicked out to the ones Dempsey had. We had two great chances of a Leinster Final appearance and blew them. You brought Dempsey up, that's what we were talking about

oldmcdonald (Carlow) - Posts: 140 - 19/03/2013 21:54:52    1352396

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Old Mac, must say regardless of other stuff you have said here, that you are on the money bout Dempsey. he knew how to play the media game and thats why he got away with it for so long. I agree that he cost us at least one if not two final appearances in u21.Unfortunately some who worked with him are still in place and I believe that therein lies our problem.

pennypincher (Carlow) - Posts: 777 - 20/03/2013 11:14:21    1352510

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Pennypincher - just want to correct one word in your last post - instead of word 'some' of them are still there put 'all' of them who worked with Dempsey are still there!!!! There should have been a complete clear out and some fresh voices brought in.

dual supporter (Carlow) - Posts: 772 - 20/03/2013 12:07:34    1352568

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Ah come on, less of the fantasy. Dempsey did no such thing. We made no progress; stabilised what? Players were left out oft he panel that were and are badly needed. U21?? He costs us two Leinster Final appearances. He put in place the backbone of the team we have today.. he didnt exactly have to buy players like...you know the CLUBS developed them and they wouldnt be there only for that. He didnt have to put in place anything. He is in the same position as every county manager - a pool of club players to choose from. Spouting more Premiership bull...that's what this is!

You people make managers out to be messiahs when this game is very simple.
Pick the best players and train them well. Have a way of playing. Take it from there.


luke dempsey was the best manager carlow football has had regarding dedication, know how and inspiration. since vinny harvey. bobby miller was good but he was dealing with a club team he developed.
old mac you should stick to the cards as your gaa knowledge is slim to say the least. i think there is more than the game simple in your world.

topofthetown (Carlow) - Posts: 64 - 20/03/2013 13:15:59    1352662

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Oldmcdonald, the reason I brought Luke Dempsey into it was because it was part of my response to Bosco, however it seems to have ruffled your feathers a bit, I can't see why, but I can understand why, it's quiet obvious when you say, "There's no comparison. The panel this year wouldn't have kept the ball kicked out to the one's Dempsey had. We had two great chances of Leinster finals and blew them."
2010 was the only real chance Carlow had of getting to a leinster final and possibly winning a leinster title, but Dublin had a say in that and they ended up a 0-01 better team on the day.
You say the panel this year wouldn't have kept the ball kicked out to the one's Dempsey had, there's two reasons for that (1) those lads were left rudderless for week's on end until shortly before the Dublin game then a manager was appointed, one who had no previous inter county managerial experience and they were expected to go out and beat Dublin with a couple of week's training under their belt.
(2) If Dempsey was in charge that would not have happened.
Ei - Ei - O

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2109 - 20/03/2013 18:22:22    1352916

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we have been plagued by bad managers in carlow mainly because our count board is and has been quite poor and has always lacked vision to develop the game. you only have to look at the 5 year plan brought out in 2008 to see this, the basically copied another counties plan whilst ignoring ideas from within the county. the only goal of that plan that is remotely close to been acomplished is the training center, all other goals failed miserably and yet year in year out these same people are allowed remain in their positions despite the fact that the county is a model of failure

anyway back to the current problem, it's not as major as some make it out to be, the problem is this, the current management knows their is a problem area in the team but they have wrongly decided that it's in defense, the problem is in midfield, has been for the last few years but not a single thing has been done to remedy it, we have persisted with a combo that has not worked for too long, i know im right on this as i have done the stats and i have seen games where we were beaten 2 and 3 to 1 in the middle area on kickouts, this is a fact. this is a problem over the last few years and what do we do this year, we keep things as they are in midfield and put an extra player in the backline, now how that is going to solve the midfield problem i don't know maybe someone can enlighten me?

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1296 - 20/03/2013 20:17:01    1352993

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That is a good point. We have had problems in midfield and the extra man playing there might help the team improve it's ball winning. Walker would be ideal there.

Benekerry (Cavan) - Posts: 258 - 20/03/2013 21:01:31    1353056

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1.Trevor O Reilly
2.Barry John Molloy
3.Conor Lawlor
4.Paraig Murphy
5.Benny Kavanagh
6.Derek Hayden
7.Alan Callinan
8.Ray Walker
9.Keith Jackson
10.Sean Gannon
11.John Murphy
12.Eoghan Ruth
13.Brian Murphy
14.Daniel St.Ledger
15.Eric Mcormack

Pick this team and there you have Division 3 football in your sights

Dirtyowlgearbag (Carlow) - Posts: 86 - 21/03/2013 13:08:17    1353375

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That's a very good team, but I'd have ledger corner-forward and Brodrick in full forward, IMO the only reason Brian Murphy starts is his ability to take a left footed free kick, not a good enough reason. We lack pace and ability to score from play in our current forward line.

townman10 (Carlow) - Posts: 40 - 21/03/2013 13:28:04    1353400

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Dirty Owl that team is so good you don't even have Brendan Murphy on it?????Sometimes i wonder with people on this Forum as they seem to have their own vented interests and often it is of little value to the team or Carlow Football in general. Everyone seems to have the answers to all our difficulties but I could nearly predict for certain that alot of the conversation going on at the moment will be the same this time next year unless we get the best players to commit. The best players in the county were not asked in simple as that, if you were a manager and you were looking for scoring forwards and forwards that CAN win their own ball you would be looking at Carpenter,Rea and Carbury,by a country mile the three best forwards in the county the last decade. Were any of the three asked in? We seem to build up lads that have never even been consistent at club level and we forget about lads that have a proven track record. And before anyone say's Carpenter is past it, he carried the Blues to semi final last year and still has something to offer even as an impact sub his experience would be invaluable. Until we have a manager that literally goes and knocks on every players door and by whatever means needs be gets the best possible to commit, until then we are going nowhere. The truth of the matter is and it is harsh alot of the current panel just aren't up to it but they have to be commended for their commitment.

BigJim777 (Carlow) - Posts: 60 - 21/03/2013 16:19:51    1353572

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Fair point Big Jim - you can bet if we looked up posts from this time last year we were saying the same things as well! I do know that Mark Carpenter was asked in but declined - i have said before that even if he didnt want to play that he would have been great to have as a selector. Brian Carbery, Simon Rea, Eric McCormack were not asked in. Paul Broderick was asked in as I think was Hughie Gahan - both also declined. Hughie may have been injured i'm not sure? I cannot for the life of me understand why when we are struggling for scores why these players were not asked. Luke Dempsey went for youth and Anthony Rainbow seems to have continued that which is fine but you need to have a good mix of experience as well. Lads who know how to hold onto a lead and win a game. The manager should be able to look at his subs bench and know that each of them is good enough to come on and do a good job for the team. I dont think that is the case with Carlow. Some lads have not got a minute of game time yet - what does that same about them?

dual supporter (Carlow) - Posts: 772 - 21/03/2013 17:05:34    1353605

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If we insist on 7th defender would Mark Carpenter be the man for the job? would love to see Walker with the shakles off

From existing panel and assuming we player 7th defender (Gannon) heres my team
1 Reilly
2 Lawler
3 Mernagh
4 Kieran Nolan
5 Doyle
6 Redmond
7Benny Kavanagh
8 Brendan Murphy
9 John Murphy
10 Derek Hayden
11 Walker
12 Gannon
13 Brian Murphy
14 Darragh Foley
15 St ledger

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 21/03/2013 17:08:38    1353608

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