Monaghan Forum

El Clasico 2020 Monaghan Vs Cavan

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "We'll enjoy this year first. Not sitting at home next week..."
If you think about it technically everyone is sitting at home next week

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 753 - 01/11/2020 20:07:08    2304067

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Replying To Adler:  "If you think about it technically everyone is sitting at home next week"
Well the Monaghan team definitely will be. Breffni will have our lads out on it however

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 996 - 01/11/2020 20:28:18    2304090

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Just looking at it yesterday and to me it's a case of Cavan with a poor squad and a good manager and monaghan with a better squad with a poor manager but Cavan deserved to win as monaghan line totally lost the match at the half tme team talk

prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 762 - 01/11/2020 21:06:05    2304118

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Replying To agaa:  "Did you watch the first half? Monaghan has the armery had the skill set all they had to do was push on. Yes it was a short year but such tactics for a MANAGER to send his team out to play with. All the forwards that played so well in the first half were not allowed to play in the second half and that's not with much credit to Cavan that's because Monaghan were so sluggish in their approach to the second half. His tactics stank and a lot of his match ups were terrible."
Of course I watched the first half, I also watched the second half and both halves of extra time, otherwise I wouldn't be making my opinion known here. Surely anyone that comes on here is entitled to an opinion no matter how silly or relevant you or anyone thinks it is, after all an opinion is like an arsehole and everyone has one! It's not overly fair slating the manager saying he did this and that wrong, we should be getting behind him and standing by him because it's great to see someone local in rather than outsourcing outside the county, and probably doing the job at a fraction of the price too! Yes some of his tactics in the game weren't great but he took a chance to try something new and it didn't work, there probably wasn't enough time to perfect or practice some of the game plans or tactics as yesterday's game was a do or die game and our last two league games were of similar stakes! But everyone is too quick to dwell on the tactics that didn't work, instead of possibly dwelling on good tactics and the positives for a change

farneyfan123 (Monaghan) - Posts: 4 - 01/11/2020 21:07:17    2304121

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Replying To prideof85:  "Just looking at it yesterday and to me it's a case of Cavan with a poor squad and a good manager and monaghan with a better squad with a poor manager but Cavan deserved to win as monaghan line totally lost the match at the half tme team talk"
In what way have Cavan a poor squad and you a good one? Younger overall squad than ye and beaten you 2 years running...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 996 - 01/11/2020 22:47:51    2304177

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Niall Kearns not tracking Martin Reilly for the goal was critical not much Banty can do about that?

Monaghan2000 (Monaghan) - Posts: 41 - 01/11/2020 23:25:03    2304193

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Replying To farneyfan123:  "Of course I watched the first half, I also watched the second half and both halves of extra time, otherwise I wouldn't be making my opinion known here. Surely anyone that comes on here is entitled to an opinion no matter how silly or relevant you or anyone thinks it is, after all an opinion is like an arsehole and everyone has one! It's not overly fair slating the manager saying he did this and that wrong, we should be getting behind him and standing by him because it's great to see someone local in rather than outsourcing outside the county, and probably doing the job at a fraction of the price too! Yes some of his tactics in the game weren't great but he took a chance to try something new and it didn't work, there probably wasn't enough time to perfect or practice some of the game plans or tactics as yesterday's game was a do or die game and our last two league games were of similar stakes! But everyone is too quick to dwell on the tactics that didn't work, instead of possibly dwelling on good tactics and the positives for a change"
His good tactics were the first half I've made no complaints about that they worked well my question to him would be why change? Why stop playing the running game why tell them to shut up shop. I've chatted to a few of the players since. At half time they were told you're winning by 7 points lads play keep ball don't worry about scoring keep the ball. How in gods name could any manager send a team out to not attack in the second half. We have arguably the best full forward in the country we were cutting them open left right and Centre and he decided to scrap all that to play keep ball. At the water break in the second half it was the same instruction. Everyone in the country could see they were going to be caught except for him. I do agree with local men but I believe there are local men who have managed junior, intermediate and senior clubs this year better equipped to manage Monaghan.

agaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 30 - 01/11/2020 23:31:56    2304196

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I'm trying to be glass half full here but it's bloody hard. It's sometimes difficult watching a game on TV to determine what is going on. Were Cavan sitting back and letting us have the ball or were we holding onto the ball and letting Cavan stream back? If it's former then Graham is some kind of Bill Belichick-esque genius. Being that patient whilst being behind on the scoreboard is pretty ballsy. However I'm inclined to think that it's the latter as illustrated by the incidents described by other posters where we kept going backwards when in attacking positions. I'm struggling with Banty telling the guys to hold onto possession. It's seems incredible he would do that?

Anyway despite the shambles on the line we must also remember that we had 4 goal chances and took zero of them. McAnespie had a great chance. David Clifford in '18 was at the same end from a tighter angle with the goal mouth full and he still scored!! What do we do? Hit it straight at the keeper, and he isn't even a keeper. We also had goal opportunities from O'Connell, McCarthy and Ward. Four goal chances, zero scored. Now look at Cavan. Their first goal was opportunistic and very difficult to execute but Pierson scored it. Last years' game was similar, we couldn't hit a barn door the first half, think we missed 9 easy scoring chances, 12 months on little has changed. Actually 17 months but who's counting.

We got dominated in the second half at midfield again. McKiernan is some footballer. Kearns is a massive miss for us. We seem to have a midfield by committee thing going on. Just play different guys or the Hughes bros there and hope it works. I fear that Kieran Hughes' best years have been completely wasted. We never knew how lucky we were with Owen Lennon and Dick at MF. We still have no free taker to replace Jap although he was a one in a million. I'm never confident with McManus from the right side with those frees. I guess McCarthy would have taken that one at the end of normal time had he been on although he's missed frees from there too notably v Fermanagh couple years back.

Also (and this is not a big issue) but I can't understand the referee not blowing full time when Beggan levelled it. Would have been a novelty (and brutally nail biting) to watch penalties with two huge rivals. I thought it weird, no big deal just saying.

Interesting what a few are saying re the league. We (and the GAA) have to get it into our heads - the league does not matter. In the GAA the league is the Carling Cup - end of. It's is a secondary competition that's brilliantly run having equal matchups every week but let's face it - it's a means to an end. The Championship is the premier competition but is a shambles of thing. League competitions have been kicked to the curb for decades by Croke Park and county boards up and down the country and that will always be the way until they merge the two competitions which may happen sooner rather than later.

Ah well sure at least Tyrone were beat.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 753 - 01/11/2020 23:36:49    2304197

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Replying To farneyfan123:  "Of course I watched the first half, I also watched the second half and both halves of extra time, otherwise I wouldn't be making my opinion known here. Surely anyone that comes on here is entitled to an opinion no matter how silly or relevant you or anyone thinks it is, after all an opinion is like an arsehole and everyone has one! It's not overly fair slating the manager saying he did this and that wrong, we should be getting behind him and standing by him because it's great to see someone local in rather than outsourcing outside the county, and probably doing the job at a fraction of the price too! Yes some of his tactics in the game weren't great but he took a chance to try something new and it didn't work, there probably wasn't enough time to perfect or practice some of the game plans or tactics as yesterday's game was a do or die game and our last two league games were of similar stakes! But everyone is too quick to dwell on the tactics that didn't work, instead of possibly dwelling on good tactics and the positives for a change"
I encourage everyone to take time out of your day for "possibly dwelling on good tactics and the positives". 5 seconds should be enough.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 494 - 02/11/2020 06:53:59    2304215

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Replying To Adler:  "I'm trying to be glass half full here but it's bloody hard. It's sometimes difficult watching a game on TV to determine what is going on. Were Cavan sitting back and letting us have the ball or were we holding onto the ball and letting Cavan stream back? If it's former then Graham is some kind of Bill Belichick-esque genius. Being that patient whilst being behind on the scoreboard is pretty ballsy. However I'm inclined to think that it's the latter as illustrated by the incidents described by other posters where we kept going backwards when in attacking positions. I'm struggling with Banty telling the guys to hold onto possession. It's seems incredible he would do that?

Anyway despite the shambles on the line we must also remember that we had 4 goal chances and took zero of them. McAnespie had a great chance. David Clifford in '18 was at the same end from a tighter angle with the goal mouth full and he still scored!! What do we do? Hit it straight at the keeper, and he isn't even a keeper. We also had goal opportunities from O'Connell, McCarthy and Ward. Four goal chances, zero scored. Now look at Cavan. Their first goal was opportunistic and very difficult to execute but Pierson scored it. Last years' game was similar, we couldn't hit a barn door the first half, think we missed 9 easy scoring chances, 12 months on little has changed. Actually 17 months but who's counting.

We got dominated in the second half at midfield again. McKiernan is some footballer. Kearns is a massive miss for us. We seem to have a midfield by committee thing going on. Just play different guys or the Hughes bros there and hope it works. I fear that Kieran Hughes' best years have been completely wasted. We never knew how lucky we were with Owen Lennon and Dick at MF. We still have no free taker to replace Jap although he was a one in a million. I'm never confident with McManus from the right side with those frees. I guess McCarthy would have taken that one at the end of normal time had he been on although he's missed frees from there too notably v Fermanagh couple years back.

Also (and this is not a big issue) but I can't understand the referee not blowing full time when Beggan levelled it. Would have been a novelty (and brutally nail biting) to watch penalties with two huge rivals. I thought it weird, no big deal just saying.

Interesting what a few are saying re the league. We (and the GAA) have to get it into our heads - the league does not matter. In the GAA the league is the Carling Cup - end of. It's is a secondary competition that's brilliantly run having equal matchups every week but let's face it - it's a means to an end. The Championship is the premier competition but is a shambles of thing. League competitions have been kicked to the curb for decades by Croke Park and county boards up and down the country and that will always be the way until they merge the two competitions which may happen sooner rather than later.

Ah well sure at least Tyrone were beat."
Good post the fact that only one genuine midfielder has come through in last 10 years has definitely hurt us. When the penny drops with a team like cavan that they can completely dominate us there the momentum gained can be v hard to stop. Kearns didn't look fit when he came in. What is the solution through I didn't see anything in the club championship that might help us in that area.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1510 - 02/11/2020 09:45:59    2304249

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So when will he resign ?

stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 134 - 02/11/2020 10:03:22    2304262

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Replying To Monaghan2000:  "Niall Kearns not tracking Martin Reilly for the goal was critical not much Banty can do about that?"
Niall Kearns was not fit. What was Banty doing putting an unfit player on the pitch? If Niall had to come on it was to win ball at midfield, nothing else.
Anyone pointing the finger at Niall Kearns who answered the call when it was obvious he wasn't close to 100% should be ashamed of themselves.
In normal time we scored 2 points against the wind, Cavan scored 1-4. Banty could have done plenty about that. He chose not to.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 494 - 02/11/2020 10:19:57    2304268

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "Niall Kearns was not fit. What was Banty doing putting an unfit player on the pitch? If Niall had to come on it was to win ball at midfield, nothing else.
Anyone pointing the finger at Niall Kearns who answered the call when it was obvious he wasn't close to 100% should be ashamed of themselves.
In normal time we scored 2 points against the wind, Cavan scored 1-4. Banty could have done plenty about that. He chose not to."
Bringing on an unfit Niall Kearns and Colin Walshe is an old trick of the banty. He done the same in 2008 against Fermanagh rushed Gary McQuaid back from injury when he was clearly not ready. He got frustrated and got sent off.

Banty also brought Colin Walshe on at full forward nobody has picked up on this.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1854 - 02/11/2020 10:59:17    2304296

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The Banty is a Salesman but that's no addition when you trying to win a football match at this level. When he first got the job, the county set was changing as was the county game. He arrived at the perfect time but not without some struggles. He sold himself off the back of a strong and experienced mgt set up. At the first wobble he sold them out and replaced them. He organised and put some structure to Monaghan that was new to all and the rewards where repped. But he had a great panel at a time when club football was very strong, county titles shared round between clubs. But in big games he could never get over the line, right matches often lost and restored to using same players all the time, even taking them off and on. Small victories celebrated from great heights.
Defeat in Enniskillen to an average Fermanagh team when Monaghan where red hot favourites for ulster. He had them worked up to such a state that they froze on the day. He'd security at the gates of Cloghan such was the frenzy he had them in.
The county board moved to get rid and we remember how that had to go in the end.
The sales man returned after that he dined off his profile in the media for years. Linking himself to big jobs, even been quoted on RTE1 radio dismissing his interest in the Dublin job before Jim Gavin was appointed. Pure fantasy stuff.
When he did get jobs, he couldn't keep them. They've no fond memories in Meath or Wexford. He has never been linked to club jobs as he not a coach. Giving him a job at club level would need a small mortgage as he will need 2/3 men with him.
He got a very good u17 and won with them but it was hard football to watch. Similar to what was seen last Saturday. Slow possession first football, relying on 1 or 2 forwards and ball going backwards.
But the one thing he good at, selling himself to a group of players who wanted for nothing. Look after them very well and they live by words and the performances follow. This isn't a bad thing but takes the flair and thinking on feet out of teams.
Got the U20 job on back if this but was a massive disappointment. His ability to buy the players is less when they older. This team was horses into the ground from October and by the time games game round they where disinterested and had heard all before over months and months. Don't think they won a game on what was a good squad.
One again the salesman cam to the fore and he got the senior job. Sold his set up to county board and was paying for it as well. Promised the county board and the panel the earth, moon and the stars and can deliver this. Everyone will be looked after. Talks a great game and organized to the last.
But a salesman is always found out when he has to deliver the product and the Banty can't do that. Started in Croke Park V Dublin, big lead and he had to get the Corduff man on. His selectors didn't agree but he went ahead anyway and game was drew. Hasn't been same since, albeit in a very strange year.

Rest of league was very hit and miss. Schooled by Kerry. Lucky V Meath. There is nothing original in his thinking as a manager. Resorts to throwing a defender up front (Colin Walshe) cause it worked for 10 minutes V Tyrone in an Ulster final when result was long gone. He took off forwards for midfielders, midfielders went off for forwards. By end of game it was impossible to know what actual team shape was. Totally unwilling to trust or chance younger players - Woods gets 10 minutes here and there or a half at best. Lavelle left sitting looking on. And then he comes out talking about the "web" after the game, trying to use phrases and terms like he trying to dress up a game plan.
I'm sure in coming days he will go back into salesman mode. He'll sell out some of the players (like he done after the game), he'll blame covid, he'll suggest a few changes in the backroom team and then bring another few quid to the table to keep the nodding dogs happy across the table.
And next year we will be no better. Will go all out in securing Div1 status and call it a victory. Fall in Ulster and half a run in back door at best. But ultimately, achieve nothing.

TheJackel (Monaghan) - Posts: 12 - 02/11/2020 11:00:41    2304299

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Replying To shaggylegend:  "Bringing on an unfit Niall Kearns and Colin Walshe is an old trick of the banty. He done the same in 2008 against Fermanagh rushed Gary McQuaid back from injury when he was clearly not ready. He got frustrated and got sent off.

Banty also brought Colin Walshe on at full forward nobody has picked up on this."
Hasn't Walshe been playing there for his club the last couple of years?

Thought he did well when he came in.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4376 - 02/11/2020 11:03:37    2304302

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Embarrassing.

Was there ever a more clear-cut example of a game lost on the line? Was nothing learned from the Dublin match in the league? Crying into the microphone after that one when it was a tactical meltdown that lost the initiative. You could see the panic on the line when Meath made a game of it last week too. Dumb doesn't learn as they say.

Did anyone from the management team take time to watch Cavan in their last few league games? It was pretty clear that they are quite limited but that an option would be needed in midfield for the second half. Allowing them stroke over some good points from distance was always going to get them going. Utterly predictable.

I was blue in the face saying all week that if Monaghan got a lead built up on the scoreboard they would have to drive it on. Go point for point with them for 10 minutes if needed. Surrendering the momentum and letting a wobbling Cavan find their feet was sheer lunacy. A sackable offence. Taking out O'Hanlon, one of your best running attackers facing a strong wind, and McCarthy, someone who could get you that vital score. Ridiculous. Starting Kieran Hughes was a blunder. Leaving Andrew Woods on his **** when Galligan came in was worse. I could go on. And don't annoy me about 'the web'!
This was all pointed out when the appointment was made. People didnt want to hear it- sure wasn't it great craic beating Meath in '05? Monaghan's clubs now need to follow the example set by Meath and Wexford.

As a Cavan lad said on here somewhere, at least the bad new jersey design will only get one run in the championship. Good luck to them on their way to a second Ulster final in 2 years.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 738 - 02/11/2020 11:35:53    2304319

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The amount of brand new posters on this forum is noticeable. The Banty Bashers are out in numbers.

xxB3B0Stunnahxx (USA) - Posts: 94 - 02/11/2020 11:46:30    2304326

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Embarrassing.

Was there ever a more clear-cut example of a game lost on the line? Was nothing learned from the Dublin match in the league? Crying into the microphone after that one when it was a tactical meltdown that lost the initiative. You could see the panic on the line when Meath made a game of it last week too. Dumb doesn't learn as they say.

Did anyone from the management team take time to watch Cavan in their last few league games? It was pretty clear that they are quite limited but that an option would be needed in midfield for the second half. Allowing them stroke over some good points from distance was always going to get them going. Utterly predictable.

I was blue in the face saying all week that if Monaghan got a lead built up on the scoreboard they would have to drive it on. Go point for point with them for 10 minutes if needed. Surrendering the momentum and letting a wobbling Cavan find their feet was sheer lunacy. A sackable offence. Taking out O'Hanlon, one of your best running attackers facing a strong wind, and McCarthy, someone who could get you that vital score. Ridiculous. Starting Kieran Hughes was a blunder. Leaving Andrew Woods on his **** when Galligan came in was worse. I could go on. And don't annoy me about 'the web'!
This was all pointed out when the appointment was made. People didnt want to hear it- sure wasn't it great craic beating Meath in '05? Monaghan's clubs now need to follow the example set by Meath and Wexford.

As a Cavan lad said on here somewhere, at least the bad new jersey design will only get one run in the championship. Good luck to them on their way to a second Ulster final in 2 years."
I honestly thought that Banty may actually give us something and I thought he was a good enough choice. But its hard to disagree with anything in this post really.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1071 - 02/11/2020 11:51:20    2304334

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For the life of me i cannot figure out how Banty has somehow carved out a reputation as a top manager.
Lets look back on his cv. It reminds me a bit of Mick McCarthy, he gives good press and soundbites so media love him.

Managed Monaghan for few years in the late noughties where he admittedly made them a bit more competitive and harder to beat, they won nothing though. That same group under Malachy O'Rourke would win 2 ulsters, get to an all ireland semi final and stay in division 1 for 7+ years

Somehow landed the Meath job where he was an unmitigated disaster, the only notable feature of his time there was bringing a 40 year old Geraghty out of retirement. Not much of a long term view there. Left behind a big ball

Wexford job next where he was relatively mediocre but undoubtedly left a huge bill and expenses tab

..which leads to Saturday, a 7 point commanding lead at halftime against a cavan side whose confidence was on the floor, All his forwards scoring well (O'Hanlon, McManus, Bannigan). Thus follows one of the most cowardly negative 2nd half performances i have seen, parking the bus and attempting to keep ball for an entire half. The tactics pretty much nullified all the attackers who had been going well and 2 fisted points from defenders the sum total of efforts. Cavan suddenly realised around the 60th minute that Monaghan had no intent on leaving their half so went for it. Monaghan and banty got what they deserved.

All this followed a week when he talked about how monaghan were 'embarassed' by Cavan last year, ridiculously OTT statement and insulting to O'Rourke and cavan

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 85 - 02/11/2020 11:52:48    2304335

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Replying To TheJackel:  "The Banty is a Salesman but that's no addition when you trying to win a football match at this level. When he first got the job, the county set was changing as was the county game. He arrived at the perfect time but not without some struggles. He sold himself off the back of a strong and experienced mgt set up. At the first wobble he sold them out and replaced them. He organised and put some structure to Monaghan that was new to all and the rewards where repped. But he had a great panel at a time when club football was very strong, county titles shared round between clubs. But in big games he could never get over the line, right matches often lost and restored to using same players all the time, even taking them off and on. Small victories celebrated from great heights.
Defeat in Enniskillen to an average Fermanagh team when Monaghan where red hot favourites for ulster. He had them worked up to such a state that they froze on the day. He'd security at the gates of Cloghan such was the frenzy he had them in.
The county board moved to get rid and we remember how that had to go in the end.
The sales man returned after that he dined off his profile in the media for years. Linking himself to big jobs, even been quoted on RTE1 radio dismissing his interest in the Dublin job before Jim Gavin was appointed. Pure fantasy stuff.
When he did get jobs, he couldn't keep them. They've no fond memories in Meath or Wexford. He has never been linked to club jobs as he not a coach. Giving him a job at club level would need a small mortgage as he will need 2/3 men with him.
He got a very good u17 and won with them but it was hard football to watch. Similar to what was seen last Saturday. Slow possession first football, relying on 1 or 2 forwards and ball going backwards.
But the one thing he good at, selling himself to a group of players who wanted for nothing. Look after them very well and they live by words and the performances follow. This isn't a bad thing but takes the flair and thinking on feet out of teams.
Got the U20 job on back if this but was a massive disappointment. His ability to buy the players is less when they older. This team was horses into the ground from October and by the time games game round they where disinterested and had heard all before over months and months. Don't think they won a game on what was a good squad.
One again the salesman cam to the fore and he got the senior job. Sold his set up to county board and was paying for it as well. Promised the county board and the panel the earth, moon and the stars and can deliver this. Everyone will be looked after. Talks a great game and organized to the last.
But a salesman is always found out when he has to deliver the product and the Banty can't do that. Started in Croke Park V Dublin, big lead and he had to get the Corduff man on. His selectors didn't agree but he went ahead anyway and game was drew. Hasn't been same since, albeit in a very strange year.

Rest of league was very hit and miss. Schooled by Kerry. Lucky V Meath. There is nothing original in his thinking as a manager. Resorts to throwing a defender up front (Colin Walshe) cause it worked for 10 minutes V Tyrone in an Ulster final when result was long gone. He took off forwards for midfielders, midfielders went off for forwards. By end of game it was impossible to know what actual team shape was. Totally unwilling to trust or chance younger players - Woods gets 10 minutes here and there or a half at best. Lavelle left sitting looking on. And then he comes out talking about the "web" after the game, trying to use phrases and terms like he trying to dress up a game plan.
I'm sure in coming days he will go back into salesman mode. He'll sell out some of the players (like he done after the game), he'll blame covid, he'll suggest a few changes in the backroom team and then bring another few quid to the table to keep the nodding dogs happy across the table.
And next year we will be no better. Will go all out in securing Div1 status and call it a victory. Fall in Ulster and half a run in back door at best. But ultimately, achieve nothing."
Great summation of the man and the situation. A year on still dont know for the life of me how he got appointed again when he was yesterday's man in senior intercounty management. A good organiser am sure in his business but what he knows about winning important football matches could go on the back of a stamp. Complete buffer that stuff about the Web is nonsence. A team seven pts up at half time and in control pushes on simple as.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1510 - 02/11/2020 11:59:53    2304347

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