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Replying To Whammo86: "The provincials stay the same and are still part of the All Ireland.
I've answered why they aren't like the McKenna cup and they are not really less a part of the championship than they are now.
The championship is a 2 groups of 8 format, one that has a historical tradition in the association.
Would you consider the CPA members as being proper GAA people because when they came into being their preferred All Ireland format was a 2 groups of 8 where teams played one another home and away. Provincials were not played at all in that proposal.
Kieran McGeeney has said in the past that the championship should be the league where 4 divisions of 8 play home and away. Is McGeeney not a proper GAA man.
You started with the personal attack. You consistently misrepresent my view point.
The truth is that this is an association that spans the island with members coming from very different situations, each county with a very different sporting heritage with differences in the dominant code, organisational structure of their competitions, traditions of inter county success.
I take issue with you painting me as less of a GAA person.
You have a more traditional view than me of the organisation, that's fine. I understand it and appreciate it.
I agree with your argument that the Provincials should remain part of the All Ireland and that provincial champions need to be treated equally in it.
Where I worry is that I don't think the season as a whole offers enough in terms of matches that matter. We have a lot of low impact games.
I don't think some of what I suggest is close to being as radical as some things that have come up in congress in recent years or even some of the changes like the split season, the move of the All Ireland finals back to Julyor the league becoming as prominent as provincials in determining progression in the All Ireland." The provincials dont stay the same though. Not really. You are proposing playing them either first to get them out of the way or mixing them in with your jumbo round robin, which and im not sure on this as you have changed your mind a couple of times, will replace the league as we know it. If the league is staying it will be way too much games altogether and if it goes then that's one less trophy and medal a player and team can aspire to win. Add in a marginalised provincial championship and that's valued far less also so a diminished achievement if you win it. Why? Because it will either be played in January/February/Early march to facilitate the jumbo round robin or it will be shoehorned in between championship round robin games depending on which you settle on.
How does it remain linked to the championship? If its before the championship round robin whats the point in the winners playing in the RR? If its during how can you link performance in it to a competition that is ongoing? It will undermine its integrity surely??
Not even McGeeney suggested this.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 661 - 29/06/2026 18:00:57
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The quarter finals was a great weekend. 3 rounds for 16 teams to reduce to 8 is perfectly reasonable.
The ball in the GPA's court really if they want to push for an end to playing on 3 consecutive weekends on behalf of the players. All other format discussions are going down a rabbit hole!
It has to be said again that a championship is to determine a champion. Provincial runners up are being overly rewarded. If rewarding provincial runners up is to be persisted with - all provinces possibly should have their top 2 from the league on opposite sides of the draw. It shouldn't necessarily mean the top 2 receive any byes. Munster has 6 counties. The byes from the quarter final should go on a 3 year rotation. For 2 of 3 years everyone would start in the quarter finals. For 1 of 3 years everyone would have a bye to the semi finals.
Connacht has a rotation for counties playing London and New York. They could similarly have a rotation that the 5 counties have a bye to the semi final in turn.
5 counties get a bye from the Leinster preliminary - possibly that could go on a 2 year rotation, with the winners possibly exempt.
Ulster then possibly could go on a 4 year rotation of teams starting in the preliminary, with winners possibly being exempt.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 30/06/2026 08:52:23
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Replying To legendzxix: "The quarter finals was a great weekend. 3 rounds for 16 teams to reduce to 8 is perfectly reasonable.
The ball in the GPA's court really if they want to push for an end to playing on 3 consecutive weekends on behalf of the players. All other format discussions are going down a rabbit hole!
It has to be said again that a championship is to determine a champion. Provincial runners up are being overly rewarded. If rewarding provincial runners up is to be persisted with - all provinces possibly should have their top 2 from the league on opposite sides of the draw. It shouldn't necessarily mean the top 2 receive any byes. Munster has 6 counties. The byes from the quarter final should go on a 3 year rotation. For 2 of 3 years everyone would start in the quarter finals. For 1 of 3 years everyone would have a bye to the semi finals.
Connacht has a rotation for counties playing London and New York. They could similarly have a rotation that the 5 counties have a bye to the semi final in turn.
5 counties get a bye from the Leinster preliminary - possibly that could go on a 2 year rotation, with the winners possibly exempt.
Ulster then possibly could go on a 4 year rotation of teams starting in the preliminary, with winners possibly being exempt." Tweaks
Only Provincial winners get Round 1 perk.
Elimination rounds 2B and 3 at neutral venues.
Can the 5/6 week breaks for teams knocked out early in the Provincials be addressed e g they play a prelim round?
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 700 - 30/06/2026 10:40:49
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Replying To Seanfan: "Tweaks
Only Provincial winners get Round 1 perk.
Elimination rounds 2B and 3 at neutral venues.
Can the 5/6 week breaks for teams knocked out early in the Provincials be addressed e g they play a prelim round?" I dont know why you all have such a set on provincial finalists.
You all disregard the physical, psychological and emotional drain that preparing for, playing in, and losing a provincial final involves. For some its the biggest game of their lives and you all dismiss it as irrelevant.
There was very little wrong with this year's format.
Separate provincial winners and lovers in the draw.
I like the idea of the 8 qualifiers playing each other in round 1A in and around provincial final weekend's.
The winners would then play the provincial lovers and the lovers play the provincial winners. The provincial teams have home advantage in my system.
The winners of the round involving provincial winners go through to quarter finals.
The winners of round involving provincial lovers play the lovers of the other round in preliminary quarter final.
It rewards winning championship matches, avoids the big break for teams and keeps things moving along in an orderly fashion.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 661 - 30/06/2026 13:17:59
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I dont know why you all have such a set on provincial finalists.
You all disregard the physical, psychological and emotional drain that preparing for, playing in, and losing a provincial final involves. For some its the biggest game of their lives and you all dismiss it as irrelevant.
There was very little wrong with this year's format.
Separate provincial winners and lovers in the draw.
I like the idea of the 8 qualifiers playing each other in round 1A in and around provincial final weekend's.
The winners would then play the provincial lovers and the lovers play the provincial winners. The provincial teams have home advantage in my system.
The winners of the round involving provincial winners go through to quarter finals.
The winners of round involving provincial lovers play the lovers of the other round in preliminary quarter final.
It rewards winning championship matches, avoids the big break for teams and keeps things moving along in an orderly fashion." My "down" on Provincial losers is Galway bet Leitrim, get the same perk as Armagh who bet 4 reams to win Ulster.
I like your proposals mind you.
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 700 - 30/06/2026 14:24:46
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I dont know why you all have such a set on provincial finalists.
You all disregard the physical, psychological and emotional drain that preparing for, playing in, and losing a provincial final involves. For some its the biggest game of their lives and you all dismiss it as irrelevant.
There was very little wrong with this year's format.
Separate provincial winners and lovers in the draw.
I like the idea of the 8 qualifiers playing each other in round 1A in and around provincial final weekend's.
The winners would then play the provincial lovers and the lovers play the provincial winners. The provincial teams have home advantage in my system.
The winners of the round involving provincial winners go through to quarter finals.
The winners of round involving provincial lovers play the lovers of the other round in preliminary quarter final.
It rewards winning championship matches, avoids the big break for teams and keeps things moving along in an orderly fashion." Is the advantage of losing round 1A that if you beat a provincial winner - you'll go direct to the quarter finals??
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 30/06/2026 15:15:22
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Replying To legendzxix: "The quarter finals was a great weekend. 3 rounds for 16 teams to reduce to 8 is perfectly reasonable.
The ball in the GPA's court really if they want to push for an end to playing on 3 consecutive weekends on behalf of the players. All other format discussions are going down a rabbit hole!
It has to be said again that a championship is to determine a champion. Provincial runners up are being overly rewarded. If rewarding provincial runners up is to be persisted with - all provinces possibly should have their top 2 from the league on opposite sides of the draw. It shouldn't necessarily mean the top 2 receive any byes. Munster has 6 counties. The byes from the quarter final should go on a 3 year rotation. For 2 of 3 years everyone would start in the quarter finals. For 1 of 3 years everyone would have a bye to the semi finals.
Connacht has a rotation for counties playing London and New York. They could similarly have a rotation that the 5 counties have a bye to the semi final in turn.
5 counties get a bye from the Leinster preliminary - possibly that could go on a 2 year rotation, with the winners possibly exempt.
Ulster then possibly could go on a 4 year rotation of teams starting in the preliminary, with winners possibly being exempt." do you ever think of any proposals that help the game overall instead of anything that just makes it easier for Kerry and to hell with the benefits for everyone as a whole?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3987 - 30/06/2026 15:37:13
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Why were the pre-season competitions reintroduced? I thought they were got rid of a few years ago to de-clutter the calendar. They don't help the situation. Most counties are without players who are involved with Sigerson cup. And before someone says it's an injury fund, I don't buy that for one minute. Every player in the country has to pay insurance. I know several players who had bad injuries down the years, including one who lost vision in an eye and never got money from proceeds of these competitions. It was always through insurance.
Chops (Westmeath) - Posts: 931 - 30/06/2026 16:30:23
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Replying To KillingFields: "do you ever think of any proposals that help the game overall instead of anything that just makes it easier for Kerry and to hell with the benefits for everyone as a whole?" Oh, you're not happy about all counties sharing the bye to the semi finals on rotation is it..
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 30/06/2026 16:53:04
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Replying To legendzxix: "Is the advantage of losing round 1A that if you beat a provincial winner - you'll go direct to the quarter finals??" Good point. I would have to look at that again. On the flip side you are out though.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 661 - 30/06/2026 18:02:27
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Replying To Chops: "Why were the pre-season competitions reintroduced? I thought they were got rid of a few years ago to de-clutter the calendar. They don't help the situation. Most counties are without players who are involved with Sigerson cup. And before someone says it's an injury fund, I don't buy that for one minute. Every player in the country has to pay insurance. I know several players who had bad injuries down the years, including one who lost vision in an eye and never got money from proceeds of these competitions. It was always through insurance." The managers wanted them.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 661 - 30/06/2026 19:49:40
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If NFL is retained, I think all teams should be guaranteed 1 home/1 away game in AIC Rds 1 & 2.
Draw 2 Sam streams of 8, with each team drawn hosting the next drawn sequentially from seed pots as follows:
Stream A: 1243, 1243
Stream B: 1342, 1342
So, in Stream A - e.g. Seed 4 hosts 3 & Seed 3 hosts 1 (wrap around), while Stream B is opposite (1 hosts 3 & 3 hosts 4).
Double winners (on the day) to AI QFs;
Double losers eliminated; and
Single winners (variable) to Rd 3.
Rd 3 & beyond targets 'AvB' pairings to avoid repeats (as much as possible).
Tailteann Cup, similar with Streams C & D.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3462 - 30/06/2026 21:01:13
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Good point. I would have to look at that again. On the flip side you are out though." The hurling qualifiers one time had a phase A and a phase B, or something like that. It was nearly more advantageous to be knocked of the province early and go the phase A route if I recall that correctly.
The intention is good to have the qualifiers have a game to play while the provincial finals are taking place. The solution though which could result in Down knocking out Donegal isn't palatable.
Often 16 would go into 4 groups of 4. The GAA don't want dead runners. The current 2A-2B format is already the solution to that.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 30/06/2026 22:22:37
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Replying To KillingFields: "do you ever think of any proposals that help the game overall instead of anything that just makes it easier for Kerry and to hell with the benefits for everyone as a whole?" This year is the fairest system for years. All teams get their second bite at it. Cream rises to the top.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2811 - 01/07/2026 08:03:02
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Good point. I would have to look at that again. On the flip side you are out though." A tweak to your suggestion would be:
• 16 qualifiers starting in Round 1. The 8 winners join the 8 finalists in Round 2. Round 2 winners into Round 3A for direct route to quarter finals. Round 2 losers into elimination Round 3B.
• Tailteann Cup (Tier 3) for the 8 lower ranked league counties that don't qualify for Round 1.
• 'Mid Tier' Cup (Tier 2) for the 8 Round 1 losers.
° Round 1 should avoid repeat pairings from the provincials e.g. Donegal avoiding Down. If a big fish crashes out in Round 1 - tough luck, despite the impact.
° Tailteann winners and 'Mid Tier' winners should be guaranteed home advantage in Round 1 of the following year.
° The Round 1 draw can take place after the Leinster and Ulster semi finals.
° Round 1 can take place on the weekend after the Leinster and Ulster finals.
° The Round 2 draw can take place after the Leinster and Ulster finals, drawing finalists against a Round 1 pairing, e.g Roscommon drawn at home against the winner of Tyrone v Wexford.
° All Round 2 games on the same weekend, the weekend after Round 1.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 01/07/2026 08:23:17
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Replying To legendzxix: "The hurling qualifiers one time had a phase A and a phase B, or something like that. It was nearly more advantageous to be knocked of the province early and go the phase A route if I recall that correctly.
The intention is good to have the qualifiers have a game to play while the provincial finals are taking place. The solution though which could result in Down knocking out Donegal isn't palatable.
Often 16 would go into 4 groups of 4. The GAA don't want dead runners. The current 2A-2B format is already the solution to that." Will teams with serious designs on AI be very bothered about Provincials in future?
Nice little trial game a few weeks after your League then 4, 5 or 6 weeks to prepare for the "real thing"
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 700 - 01/07/2026 09:15:36
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Replying To Seanfan: "Will teams with serious designs on AI be very bothered about Provincials in future?
Nice little trial game a few weeks after your League then 4, 5 or 6 weeks to prepare for the "real thing"" The top 6 in Division 1 and the Division 2 winner enter the provincial championships as already qualified. Of those who have serious designs on the All Ireland, I suppose there is a higher chance of shocks. It gives higher Division 3 teams a good chance of causing upsets. Down beating Donegal and Westmeath beating Meath were good for the provincial championships - so it might actually be strengthening the provincial championships!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9914 - 01/07/2026 09:56:17
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Replying To legendzxix: "The top 6 in Division 1 and the Division 2 winner enter the provincial championships as already qualified. Of those who have serious designs on the All Ireland, I suppose there is a higher chance of shocks. It gives higher Division 3 teams a good chance of causing upsets. Down beating Donegal and Westmeath beating Meath were good for the provincial championships - so it might actually be strengthening the provincial championships!" Making them more exciting maybe .
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 700 - 01/07/2026 11:17:57
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Replying To legendzxix: "The top 6 in Division 1 and the Division 2 winner enter the provincial championships as already qualified. Of those who have serious designs on the All Ireland, I suppose there is a higher chance of shocks. It gives higher Division 3 teams a good chance of causing upsets. Down beating Donegal and Westmeath beating Meath were good for the provincial championships - so it might actually be strengthening the provincial championships!" I wouldn't value that strength - the weak win as the strong have their eye off the ball - a bit like the league's "hand brake".
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3462 - 01/07/2026 14:36:32
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "The provincials dont stay the same though. Not really. You are proposing playing them either first to get them out of the way or mixing them in with your jumbo round robin, which and im not sure on this as you have changed your mind a couple of times, will replace the league as we know it. If the league is staying it will be way too much games altogether and if it goes then that's one less trophy and medal a player and team can aspire to win. Add in a marginalised provincial championship and that's valued far less also so a diminished achievement if you win it. Why? Because it will either be played in January/February/Early march to facilitate the jumbo round robin or it will be shoehorned in between championship round robin games depending on which you settle on.
How does it remain linked to the championship? If its before the championship round robin whats the point in the winners playing in the RR? If its during how can you link performance in it to a competition that is ongoing? It will undermine its integrity surely??
Not even McGeeney suggested this." The suggestion would be Provincial in March to mid April.
All Ireland taking 15 weekends up to last weekend in July.
Teams would be seeded by Provincial performance, although Provincial runners up shouldn't automatically qualify.
So the Provincials would be moved back but it's not to get them out of the way, it's to provide space for the All Ireland.
I hear you on it being a real cost to lose the NFL as is and the chance for trophies and Croke Park appearances.
My reasoning for it is that the All Ireland is the dominant competition in terms of prestige and whilst other competitions would suffer it's much more important to get the main competition right.
I just think the format I propose would be very effective at getting more of the right fixtures being played in the main competition, at the best window with plenty at stake.
It's an idea that's not pulled together with no real world context.
There was a motion in congress a few years ago that got over 50% of votes that would separate the Provincials from the All Ireland and run the National league afterwards with 4 divisions of 8 moving on to the All Ireland knockout round.
Now I didn't like this proposal myself but it had support outside of Provincial councils including the GPA. Certainly at the time the GPA wanted more games in the championship, have a better season structure overall and make the competition more tiered based.
This moved us towards the 4 by 4 provincial groups, they didn't really work because groups of 4 don't really work that well in GAA where draws don't happen often. If 2 progress too much can be decided before the final day, if 3 progress it's low intensity.
I think there was an alternative to going down the route of this year's championship and going 2 groups of 8 and focusing on the All Ireland. Promotion and relegation would be determined by the championship not the league which is a bit quirky for a good few reasons.
You are getting the games that we to see into April, May, June and out of February and March.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4717 - 01/07/2026 15:18:24
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