Monaghan Forum

El Clasico 2020 Monaghan Vs Cavan

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Replying To moodoo:  ""And we got turned over time after time when we went into the web - we talked about not going into the web at half-time and keep the ball"
Criticising the players in public, nice move.
...So the strategy was sound, the players just didn't do what they were told. The mind boggles."
He threw the players under the bus. Every good manager knows that you don't do that publically because it breaks the trust and when that is gone it is very hard to get back. So we have a Monaghan man dumping on his players and a bunch of hired hands who don't seem to have any positive effect at all.
In 2010, Banty said the Ulster Final defeat was down to a "bad 35 minutes". We lost first half by 4 and 2nd half by 6. Which was the "bad 35 minutes"? Truth is we were totally out thought by Tyrone, who adjusted their tactics and of course our management team froze on the line and couldn't make the changes. 10 years later, nothing has changed. Cavan changed their tactics, our management froze and we lost. Now,losing to a Tyrone team that only 2 years previously had won the All Ireland is one thing, losing to a team as weak as Cavan is another.
Let's face it, Banty isn't going to resign, I'd imagine he might change his backroom team at the end of the season to hint that they were the problem. We're stuck with him for at least another year and recalling the pathetic attempts he made to cling onto his job 10 years when his position was clearly untenable, I think we could be stuck with him for the foreseeable future.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 494 - 01/11/2020 12:14:22    2303765

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Replying To moodoo:  ""And we got turned over time after time when we went into the web - we talked about not going into the web at half-time and keep the ball"
Criticising the players in public, nice move.
...So the strategy was sound, the players just didn't do what they were told. The mind boggles."
Actually astounding that was the half time discussion. Were we playing dublin in an all ireland final ? Imagine being a monaghan player going into the dressing room with a pep in the step after the mcmanus goal and Kelly point to hear lads you have to just wind the clock down and defend the lead for 35 minutes. Mcguinness on sky was spot on those tactics are useful if you have players ready to inject pace in the attacking. Ryan wylie did it once and dessie ward also but that was it. Monaghan didn't have a shot at the cavan goals for the first half hour of the second half . Cavan would have won the game in normal time if they'd pushed up sooner on beggan kickouts our midfield was a shambles. The mindset was sit back and defend the lead once that had set in confidence had disappeared it was impossible to switch back to trying to win the game in the last 5 minutes when mcmanus hit 3 wides in a row. We actually did well to get a 2 pt lead in extra time only to fall apart again for the cavan goal. If tyrone or donegal had been playing cavan yesterday and went in with a half time lead of seven points theyd picked them off in 3rd quarter ran out easy winners. Its not just banty although that was brutal yesterday in terms of lack of ambition. We have tried to defend leads before with that keep ball rubbish and ended up scrambling at the finish to draw games or lose them. Fermanagh and Kerry games in 2018 spring to mind although yesterday felt like the final nail in the coffin for this generation of monaghan players.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1510 - 01/11/2020 12:23:08    2303768

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Replying To farneyfan123:  "People on this forum are over reacting to today's defeat too much, Cavan were the better team today. Can't judge the manager or his backroom team on just one game, with a short and strange year this year they at least deserve another year at the helm to bring our boys on that extra step to possible glory and better days. Lots of new blood in the squad and more lads getting their chance unlike previous years of predictable lineups and tactics which is great to see"
Did you watch the first half? Monaghan has the armery had the skill set all they had to do was push on. Yes it was a short year but such tactics for a MANAGER to send his team out to play with. All the forwards that played so well in the first half were not allowed to play in the second half and that's not with much credit to Cavan that's because Monaghan were so sluggish in their approach to the second half. His tactics stank and a lot of his match ups were terrible.

agaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 30 - 01/11/2020 12:26:34    2303769

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Look we know banty isn't the man for this job but players also have to take responsibility
There was enough experience on that team to close out the win yesterday. Players went missing AGAIN.

222 (UK) - Posts: 535 - 01/11/2020 12:49:33    2303779

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I have always had great time for Banty, his passion & love of Monaghan, 2nd to none. He brought us out of Div 4 limbo to become one of the top sides in the country. I was glad to see him take over from Malachy.

The tactics we used inthe second half were just crazy & senseless. I can seriously say, that was the first time I've ever seen a team beat itself. At one stage in the second half, Ryan McAnespie, won a ball aprox 35-40m from the Cavan goal, we had a man free inside, but he did'nt even look up, just passed the ball back down the field, ending up with Rory Beggan inside his own 45m. Those were obvoiusly, instructions from management.
Cavan, after 10mins of 2nd half realized that Monaghan were not going to attack, therefore went after us & we all know the story.
I would say every neutral in the country wanted Cavan to win with the display we put on in the second half.

Banty has 2 choices, change his system or resign. If he stays, he should talk to his senior players & commit to change. Our full forward line, must have been seething ,with what was happening.

Some positivity, O'Hanlon looks like fulfilling his potential, young Woods looks a great prospect, as does Bannigan.

Finally, well done Cavan, ye deserved it.

Monaghan Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 404 - 01/11/2020 13:17:39    2303785

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Replying To Monaghan Exile:  "I have always had great time for Banty, his passion & love of Monaghan, 2nd to none. He brought us out of Div 4 limbo to become one of the top sides in the country. I was glad to see him take over from Malachy.

The tactics we used inthe second half were just crazy & senseless. I can seriously say, that was the first time I've ever seen a team beat itself. At one stage in the second half, Ryan McAnespie, won a ball aprox 35-40m from the Cavan goal, we had a man free inside, but he did'nt even look up, just passed the ball back down the field, ending up with Rory Beggan inside his own 45m. Those were obvoiusly, instructions from management.
Cavan, after 10mins of 2nd half realized that Monaghan were not going to attack, therefore went after us & we all know the story.
I would say every neutral in the country wanted Cavan to win with the display we put on in the second half.

Banty has 2 choices, change his system or resign. If he stays, he should talk to his senior players & commit to change. Our full forward line, must have been seething ,with what was happening.

Some positivity, O'Hanlon looks like fulfilling his potential, young Woods looks a great prospect, as does Bannigan.

Finally, well done Cavan, ye deserved it."
How is his passion and love of Monaghan second to none. I have been going to away league matches for 30 years through all the divisions and very seldom have I seen him attend. There are thousands of genuine passionate supporters that 'loves me county' that I would put Banty second to.
Stop this nonsense, nobody has a monopoly on passion or love for their county. The appointment of manager should be based on at the very least some level of tactical acumen

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 830 - 01/11/2020 14:05:19    2303799

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Replying To Monaghan Exile:  "I have always had great time for Banty, his passion & love of Monaghan, 2nd to none. He brought us out of Div 4 limbo to become one of the top sides in the country. I was glad to see him take over from Malachy.

The tactics we used inthe second half were just crazy & senseless. I can seriously say, that was the first time I've ever seen a team beat itself. At one stage in the second half, Ryan McAnespie, won a ball aprox 35-40m from the Cavan goal, we had a man free inside, but he did'nt even look up, just passed the ball back down the field, ending up with Rory Beggan inside his own 45m. Those were obvoiusly, instructions from management.
Cavan, after 10mins of 2nd half realized that Monaghan were not going to attack, therefore went after us & we all know the story.
I would say every neutral in the country wanted Cavan to win with the display we put on in the second half.

Banty has 2 choices, change his system or resign. If he stays, he should talk to his senior players & commit to change. Our full forward line, must have been seething ,with what was happening.

Some positivity, O'Hanlon looks like fulfilling his potential, young Woods looks a great prospect, as does Bannigan.

Finally, well done Cavan, ye deserved it."
Hard luck lads. A lot of grief for Banty. However, go to GAA Facebook and look at the highlights for Martin Reillys goal (a real game changer). 3 monaghan players with Martin and none bothered to mark him, pure criminal defending. Manager may be wrong but some of yer players need to look at themselves too.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1343 - 01/11/2020 14:19:51    2303804

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Lads, I feel ye are a little delusional there in Monaghan. If there's anything, ye are OBSESSED with the league. Half the comments here are, sure we're Division 1. We're in Division 1 next year too. Cavan are Division 3, they got relegated sure... Ye are way too obsessed with league form. If there's anything we see it's that league doesn't really come into it. A couple of slight results differences and a bit of luck inna few games this year and last year and Cavan could easily still be Division 1, or promoted back to it. League position for next year does not tell the story between the teams, Cavan were not that bad in Div 2 despite the odd circumstances that saw us relegated. We beat you at home in Championship last year, and away this year. That's what matters, there's not a chasm between the teams despite league placings. Maybe start obsessing with championship, and not the league. And give Cavan some credit. Apart from the second quarter, we were better overall. We still had to go out and win it, being 7 down at h/t. No matter how bad your sideline or team managed it, Cavan still needed to win it. And we did.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 996 - 01/11/2020 16:19:22    2303906

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Was there for Monaghan to win in 2nd half but playing the way they did probably portrayed a bit of a crisis of confidence. Cavan fed off this and fair play to them for having the belief to keep going and picking off some excellent scores. Was surprised that the two Hughes were not as influential - maybe a sign that Monaghan are waning a bit. Walshe digging his two knees into Galligans back in that last move when he was on the ground was a dirty stroke which could have really hurt the young lad. He was in a lot of pain even as his cousin was scoring that last free - hopefully he's ok for next weekend.

BreffniGael (Cavan) - Posts: 4 - 01/11/2020 16:44:22    2303922

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Lads, I feel ye are a little delusional there in Monaghan. If there's anything, ye are OBSESSED with the league. Half the comments here are, sure we're Division 1. We're in Division 1 next year too. Cavan are Division 3, they got relegated sure... Ye are way too obsessed with league form. If there's anything we see it's that league doesn't really come into it. A couple of slight results differences and a bit of luck inna few games this year and last year and Cavan could easily still be Division 1, or promoted back to it. League position for next year does not tell the story between the teams, Cavan were not that bad in Div 2 despite the odd circumstances that saw us relegated. We beat you at home in Championship last year, and away this year. That's what matters, there's not a chasm between the teams despite league placings. Maybe start obsessing with championship, and not the league. And give Cavan some credit. Apart from the second quarter, we were better overall. We still had to go out and win it, being 7 down at h/t. No matter how bad your sideline or team managed it, Cavan still needed to win it. And we did."
And you where deadly yesterday

Lad79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 20 - 01/11/2020 16:47:12    2303927

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Replying To Lad79:  "And you where deadly yesterday"
Never said we 'were' deadly. But we're still in it, after coming from 7 down. A little credit where it's due. And my main point is ye put too much store into the league, as if ye were 2 divisions better than us than you actually are. That's 2 years in a row now

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 996 - 01/11/2020 16:55:04    2303936

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Very sad today about yesterday.
Likely we may have seen some if our jewels for the last time.
I think we need shot of the management.
Sometimes a game is a bridge too far and that was the case with second half tactics.
Just a very flat day today. Even the jersey without Investec is desperate. It could be a long 2021 unless we see serious bold changes.

tadghieboy (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 01/11/2020 17:01:07    2303942

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Very sad today about yesterday.
Likely we may have seen some if our jewels for the last time.
I think we need shot of the management.
Sometimes a game is a bridge too far and that was the case with second half tactics.
Just a very flat day today. Even the jersey without Investec is desperate. It could be a long 2021 unless we see serious bold changes.

tadghieboy (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 01/11/2020 17:01:13    2303943

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League divisions have nothing to do with it. Mon from Div 3 beat All Ireland Champions Donegal in 2013. Cavan must feel like they won the lotto with how Mon decided to play in 2nd half. Good luck to them.

As for Management, it was all said about 11 months ago. No point in repeating it. It was the worst result in the last 30/40 years. No question. It's embarrassing for the county. And it's puts Monaghan back 5th or 6th in Ulster. The last 5 years results in Ulster don't lie. Cavan, Cavan & Armagh, Fermanagh, Down, Donegal. We are no longer a threat in Ulster. No point in deluding ourselves. Feels like it did after his namesake lost a 9 point lead to Down in 2012. He lost his position after that result. The county board surely have the cojones so do likewise now??

Mon79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 81 - 01/11/2020 17:02:38    2303944

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Lads, I feel ye are a little delusional there in Monaghan. If there's anything, ye are OBSESSED with the league. Half the comments here are, sure we're Division 1. We're in Division 1 next year too. Cavan are Division 3, they got relegated sure... Ye are way too obsessed with league form. If there's anything we see it's that league doesn't really come into it. A couple of slight results differences and a bit of luck inna few games this year and last year and Cavan could easily still be Division 1, or promoted back to it. League position for next year does not tell the story between the teams, Cavan were not that bad in Div 2 despite the odd circumstances that saw us relegated. We beat you at home in Championship last year, and away this year. That's what matters, there's not a chasm between the teams despite league placings. Maybe start obsessing with championship, and not the league. And give Cavan some credit. Apart from the second quarter, we were better overall. We still had to go out and win it, being 7 down at h/t. No matter how bad your sideline or team managed it, Cavan still needed to win it. And we did."
I totally agree with this statement. Here's the bottom line, we have been a Div One side for 6 years. What's the point if we cant impose that on inferior teams at Championship time?
What are we going to do next year? Run the legs off Darren, Drew, Finty, Mansy and Karlo again in the league just so we can boast how great we are to be a Division One side? It's now 5years since we reached an Ulster Final. There has to be a point to staying in Div One, otherwise it's just an interesting statistic.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 494 - 01/11/2020 17:08:55    2303950

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Lads, I feel ye are a little delusional there in Monaghan. If there's anything, ye are OBSESSED with the league. Half the comments here are, sure we're Division 1. We're in Division 1 next year too. Cavan are Division 3, they got relegated sure... Ye are way too obsessed with league form. If there's anything we see it's that league doesn't really come into it. A couple of slight results differences and a bit of luck inna few games this year and last year and Cavan could easily still be Division 1, or promoted back to it. League position for next year does not tell the story between the teams, Cavan were not that bad in Div 2 despite the odd circumstances that saw us relegated. We beat you at home in Championship last year, and away this year. That's what matters, there's not a chasm between the teams despite league placings. Maybe start obsessing with championship, and not the league. And give Cavan some credit. Apart from the second quarter, we were better overall. We still had to go out and win it, being 7 down at h/t. No matter how bad your sideline or team managed it, Cavan still needed to win it. And we did."
Pairc Taiteann cup next year. Enjoy!!!

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 215 - 01/11/2020 17:09:53    2303951

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Pairc Taiteann cup next year. Enjoy!!!"
We'll enjoy this year first. Not sitting at home next week...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 996 - 01/11/2020 17:28:17    2303961

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Replying To Mon79:  "League divisions have nothing to do with it. Mon from Div 3 beat All Ireland Champions Donegal in 2013. Cavan must feel like they won the lotto with how Mon decided to play in 2nd half. Good luck to them.

As for Management, it was all said about 11 months ago. No point in repeating it. It was the worst result in the last 30/40 years. No question. It's embarrassing for the county. And it's puts Monaghan back 5th or 6th in Ulster. The last 5 years results in Ulster don't lie. Cavan, Cavan & Armagh, Fermanagh, Down, Donegal. We are no longer a threat in Ulster. No point in deluding ourselves. Feels like it did after his namesake lost a 9 point lead to Down in 2012. He lost his position after that result. The county board surely have the cojones so do likewise now??"
We haven't been a force in ulster since we won it in 15 when we had a better squad of players more options better experience intensity physicality leadership etc. Signs have been there for a few yrs in the championship that the team was in decline masked a bit by our displays in super 8s in 2018 against a tired kildare youthful kerry galway already qualified preceded by handy qualifier draws. Carlow almost beat us in 17. Down bullied us the same summer as did fermanagh the following year cavan armagh last year and cavan again yesterday. Championship totally different to the league and where you find out where teams are really at. We are well pack in the pack now.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1510 - 01/11/2020 17:53:41    2303978

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Replying To BreffniGael:  "Was there for Monaghan to win in 2nd half but playing the way they did probably portrayed a bit of a crisis of confidence. Cavan fed off this and fair play to them for having the belief to keep going and picking off some excellent scores. Was surprised that the two Hughes were not as influential - maybe a sign that Monaghan are waning a bit. Walshe digging his two knees into Galligans back in that last move when he was on the ground was a dirty stroke which could have really hurt the young lad. He was in a lot of pain even as his cousin was scoring that last free - hopefully he's ok for next weekend."
It wasn't the only one. .

McManus goading after scoring the goal. McGuinness' headbutt.

Football thankfully won out in the end.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4376 - 01/11/2020 19:50:02    2304055

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Replying To seanie08:  "We haven't been a force in ulster since we won it in 15 when we had a better squad of players more options better experience intensity physicality leadership etc. Signs have been there for a few yrs in the championship that the team was in decline masked a bit by our displays in super 8s in 2018 against a tired kildare youthful kerry galway already qualified preceded by handy qualifier draws. Carlow almost beat us in 17. Down bullied us the same summer as did fermanagh the following year cavan armagh last year and cavan again yesterday. Championship totally different to the league and where you find out where teams are really at. We are well pack in the pack now."
I agree with some of the points but the bottom line is that yesterday's game was mismanaged - the decision making on the sideline was chaotic at best.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 844 - 01/11/2020 20:03:59    2304064

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