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Replying To Overthebar53: "Seanie bambrick and Jordan would be some help to that panel." Agree and hopefully next year they might both be back. Having Mikey in there performing so well and as captain might entice Seanie and with Joe M as manager might do the same for Jordi.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1566 - 13/05/2025 09:52:40
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Replying To Onion Breath: "Agree and hopefully next year they might both be back. Having Mikey in there performing so well and as captain might entice Seanie and with Joe M as manager might do the same for Jordi." Agree but i suppose if its hard expect them to make major life choices based around football
Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 529 - 13/05/2025 09:59:56
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Replying To Onion Breath: "I agree. No need to be going outside and the only "outsider" who ever had a positive impact was Bobby Millar and by then he was really an insider anyway having done 3 or 4 years with the YIs." Not to mention that Bobby lived about six miles from Carlow town, and did all his golfing, business and socializing in Carlow and Athy. In fact, I remember him winning a Kildare title with them as a player manager in 1987.
He wasn't really an outsider. He understood the peculiar Carlow mentality, and he knew the clubs and the leading players.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 863 - 13/05/2025 11:45:21
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Big games at the weekend for both the hurlers and footballers.
I think the hurlers will bounce back after last week. They so rarely
play badly that its a shock when it happens. It reminded me of Kerry
at home about 3 years ago when everything was off from the start.
Watch them Saturday and they will respond well.
Great win for the footballers and massive game at home Sunday
against Wexford. With Joe Murphy in charge anything is possible.
Try to get a crowd out to support both teams.
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1537 - 13/05/2025 13:14:58
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Replying To CARPS: "Why do we need to look outside? Can you name an outside manager who ever achieved anything substantive with Carlow?" Thks Carps, a very interesting exam question for a sunny Tuesday afternoon !!
Bobby Millar for both club and county but I see we are claiming him as .native'. On the club side Dempsey also from Laois secured a provincial crown for the Blues. Pat Roe I think won a trophy - O'Byrne cup. Liam Hayes perhaps had a mixed tenure. Declan McGovern got us to a minor Leinster final. Luke Dempsey we can claim as local. Outside of these I agree we have generally had complete disasters, but there is a question as to whether they were the best the CB could get on a budget, or should they have had the ambition to secure a Micko-type? Has the local business base been big enough over the years to fund one ?
But I genuinely wonder do we have a cadre of home grown football managers who would have the experience, knowledge and ability to command the respect of players to manage the county team ? Murphy does, but he is IMHO may be an exception with serious experience on the club circuit. Some others who have worked outside the county have had at best mixed results. While it is great if there is a local man capable of taking on the managers bib, I wouldn't be as quick to rule out outsiders. Louth seems to have done well this year with our seniors former coach.
I cant remember the last local in charge of the hurlers, certainly 'outsiders' have not done us any harm IMHO in the small ball code - the man in charge there now I would rate very highly. I do wonder if it is a case much of our southern hinterland is a really strong hurling heartland and men who understand the game are available there? Leinster, apart from Dublin is to put it mildly not a beacon of the game. The question for me then is are we looking in the right place for outsiders? Personally I think Ulster is where football is at now - Wicklow and Laois both with Armagh men? IMHO I felt that is where the CB should have gone last year - I think Ulster had close to a clean sweep of all national football titles last year.
Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 579 - 13/05/2025 14:10:10
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Replying To Bainisteoir: "Thks Carps, a very interesting exam question for a sunny Tuesday afternoon !!
Bobby Millar for both club and county but I see we are claiming him as .native'. On the club side Dempsey also from Laois secured a provincial crown for the Blues. Pat Roe I think won a trophy - O'Byrne cup. Liam Hayes perhaps had a mixed tenure. Declan McGovern got us to a minor Leinster final. Luke Dempsey we can claim as local. Outside of these I agree we have generally had complete disasters, but there is a question as to whether they were the best the CB could get on a budget, or should they have had the ambition to secure a Micko-type? Has the local business base been big enough over the years to fund one ?
But I genuinely wonder do we have a cadre of home grown football managers who would have the experience, knowledge and ability to command the respect of players to manage the county team ? Murphy does, but he is IMHO may be an exception with serious experience on the club circuit. Some others who have worked outside the county have had at best mixed results. While it is great if there is a local man capable of taking on the managers bib, I wouldn't be as quick to rule out outsiders. Louth seems to have done well this year with our seniors former coach.
I cant remember the last local in charge of the hurlers, certainly 'outsiders' have not done us any harm IMHO in the small ball code - the man in charge there now I would rate very highly. I do wonder if it is a case much of our southern hinterland is a really strong hurling heartland and men who understand the game are available there? Leinster, apart from Dublin is to put it mildly not a beacon of the game. The question for me then is are we looking in the right place for outsiders? Personally I think Ulster is where football is at now - Wicklow and Laois both with Armagh men? IMHO I felt that is where the CB should have gone last year - I think Ulster had close to a clean sweep of all national football titles last year." English from balinkillen i think was last csrlow man in charge of hurlers
Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 529 - 13/05/2025 17:07:03
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Replying To Bainisteoir: "Thks Carps, a very interesting exam question for a sunny Tuesday afternoon !!
Bobby Millar for both club and county but I see we are claiming him as .native'. On the club side Dempsey also from Laois secured a provincial crown for the Blues. Pat Roe I think won a trophy - O'Byrne cup. Liam Hayes perhaps had a mixed tenure. Declan McGovern got us to a minor Leinster final. Luke Dempsey we can claim as local. Outside of these I agree we have generally had complete disasters, but there is a question as to whether they were the best the CB could get on a budget, or should they have had the ambition to secure a Micko-type? Has the local business base been big enough over the years to fund one ?
But I genuinely wonder do we have a cadre of home grown football managers who would have the experience, knowledge and ability to command the respect of players to manage the county team ? Murphy does, but he is IMHO may be an exception with serious experience on the club circuit. Some others who have worked outside the county have had at best mixed results. While it is great if there is a local man capable of taking on the managers bib, I wouldn't be as quick to rule out outsiders. Louth seems to have done well this year with our seniors former coach.
I cant remember the last local in charge of the hurlers, certainly 'outsiders' have not done us any harm IMHO in the small ball code - the man in charge there now I would rate very highly. I do wonder if it is a case much of our southern hinterland is a really strong hurling heartland and men who understand the game are available there? Leinster, apart from Dublin is to put it mildly not a beacon of the game. The question for me then is are we looking in the right place for outsiders? Personally I think Ulster is where football is at now - Wicklow and Laois both with Armagh men? IMHO I felt that is where the CB should have gone last year - I think Ulster had close to a clean sweep of all national football titles last year." Well in fairness poacher made a huge impact
Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 529 - 13/05/2025 17:10:55
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Replying To Bainisteoir: "Thks Carps, a very interesting exam question for a sunny Tuesday afternoon !!
Bobby Millar for both club and county but I see we are claiming him as .native'. On the club side Dempsey also from Laois secured a provincial crown for the Blues. Pat Roe I think won a trophy - O'Byrne cup. Liam Hayes perhaps had a mixed tenure. Declan McGovern got us to a minor Leinster final. Luke Dempsey we can claim as local. Outside of these I agree we have generally had complete disasters, but there is a question as to whether they were the best the CB could get on a budget, or should they have had the ambition to secure a Micko-type? Has the local business base been big enough over the years to fund one ?
But I genuinely wonder do we have a cadre of home grown football managers who would have the experience, knowledge and ability to command the respect of players to manage the county team ? Murphy does, but he is IMHO may be an exception with serious experience on the club circuit. Some others who have worked outside the county have had at best mixed results. While it is great if there is a local man capable of taking on the managers bib, I wouldn't be as quick to rule out outsiders. Louth seems to have done well this year with our seniors former coach.
I cant remember the last local in charge of the hurlers, certainly 'outsiders' have not done us any harm IMHO in the small ball code - the man in charge there now I would rate very highly. I do wonder if it is a case much of our southern hinterland is a really strong hurling heartland and men who understand the game are available there? Leinster, apart from Dublin is to put it mildly not a beacon of the game. The question for me then is are we looking in the right place for outsiders? Personally I think Ulster is where football is at now - Wicklow and Laois both with Armagh men? IMHO I felt that is where the CB should have gone last year - I think Ulster had close to a clean sweep of all national football titles last year." Think they won everything?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15795 - 13/05/2025 18:13:36
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Replying To Bimb: "Well in fairness poacher made a huge impact" Exactly this captain hindsight talk is nonsense.Turlough was having a nightmare until poacher arrived.Luck plays a huge part in it but there is no doubt that Joe Murphy is a serious operator. On another note is Aaron amond still in with the footballers. He was very prominent over the last couple of years but not even on panel last Sunday.
Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 348 - 13/05/2025 18:42:09
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Replying To Overthebar53: "Exactly this captain hindsight talk is nonsense.Turlough was having a nightmare until poacher arrived.Luck plays a huge part in it but there is no doubt that Joe Murphy is a serious operator. On another note is Aaron amond still in with the footballers. He was very prominent over the last couple of years but not even on panel last Sunday." Heard he s injured........ And our performanes declined the minute poacher left
Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 529 - 13/05/2025 19:20:10
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Replying To Overthebar53: "Exactly this captain hindsight talk is nonsense.Turlough was having a nightmare until poacher arrived.Luck plays a huge part in it but there is no doubt that Joe Murphy is a serious operator. On another note is Aaron amond still in with the footballers. He was very prominent over the last couple of years but not even on panel last Sunday." I see Arron Almond is injured but on the way back to fitness.
Was at game on Sunday but not togged out
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 756 - 13/05/2025 19:28:56
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Replying To Bainisteoir: "Thks Carps, a very interesting exam question for a sunny Tuesday afternoon !!
Bobby Millar for both club and county but I see we are claiming him as .native'. On the club side Dempsey also from Laois secured a provincial crown for the Blues. Pat Roe I think won a trophy - O'Byrne cup. Liam Hayes perhaps had a mixed tenure. Declan McGovern got us to a minor Leinster final. Luke Dempsey we can claim as local. Outside of these I agree we have generally had complete disasters, but there is a question as to whether they were the best the CB could get on a budget, or should they have had the ambition to secure a Micko-type? Has the local business base been big enough over the years to fund one ?
But I genuinely wonder do we have a cadre of home grown football managers who would have the experience, knowledge and ability to command the respect of players to manage the county team ? Murphy does, but he is IMHO may be an exception with serious experience on the club circuit. Some others who have worked outside the county have had at best mixed results. While it is great if there is a local man capable of taking on the managers bib, I wouldn't be as quick to rule out outsiders. Louth seems to have done well this year with our seniors former coach.
I cant remember the last local in charge of the hurlers, certainly 'outsiders' have not done us any harm IMHO in the small ball code - the man in charge there now I would rate very highly. I do wonder if it is a case much of our southern hinterland is a really strong hurling heartland and men who understand the game are available there? Leinster, apart from Dublin is to put it mildly not a beacon of the game. The question for me then is are we looking in the right place for outsiders? Personally I think Ulster is where football is at now - Wicklow and Laois both with Armagh men? IMHO I felt that is where the CB should have gone last year - I think Ulster had close to a clean sweep of all national football titles last year." Bainisteoir, thanks for a thoughtful reply. However, I did say "substantive." To me that means either winning promotion or going on a good championship run. I was a big fan of Bobby Miller--he was truly a superb footballer. But his record with Carlow was mixed.. Wasn't able to get out of Division Four and alienated a lot of guys by bringing in Eire Og players for the championship, ousting lads who'd played the league games. He got us to Croker in 1996 to play Meath and we were walloped. We lost to a very average Louth team in 1997. The Laois games were exciting in 1995, but we lost both. And Laois were no great shakes at the time.
Bobby was still probably the best of the outsiders. Even if we wasn't really an outsider. More like a friendly neighbor.
Pat Roe won the O'Byrne Cup (a meaningless pre-season thing) and then we then went on to lose 5 out of our 7 league matches when other teams woke up. So I can't agree on that.
The only three managers in the last 50 years to achieve anything substantive with Carlow were Paidi Doyle/Vincent Harvey (two promotions in the 1980s), Luke Dempsey (first Leinster semi-final since the 1960s, albeit he had a bye in the first round) and Turlough (both promotion and a Leinster semi).
An honorable mention to Cyril Hughes, who narrowly missed out on promotion to Division One in 2000, with the old 16-team format. That would be the equivalent of finishing 3rd in Division 3 nowadays.
Of course, Cyril is also a local. From Bagenalstown Gaels and Ballinkillen.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 863 - 13/05/2025 22:20:43
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Replying To Overthebar53: "Exactly this captain hindsight talk is nonsense.Turlough was having a nightmare until poacher arrived.Luck plays a huge part in it but there is no doubt that Joe Murphy is a serious operator. On another note is Aaron amond still in with the footballers. He was very prominent over the last couple of years but not even on panel last Sunday." The point is that Turlough had the vision to get Poacher in.
And if Poacher had come as the manager, without Turlough, it wouldn't have worked the same way.
A local manager (with good organizational and motivational skills like Turlough) using an outside coach is perfectly fine.
My point is about outside managers.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 863 - 13/05/2025 22:23:14
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Replying To CARPS: "The point is that Turlough had the vision to get Poacher in.
And if Poacher had come as the manager, without Turlough, it wouldn't have worked the same way.
A local manager (with good organizational and motivational skills like Turlough) using an outside coach is perfectly fine.
My point is about outside managers." You don't know that.Poacher changed the whole set up,who is to say he wouldn't have succeeded anyway..The previous manager was appointed without any rigour being applied.
Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 348 - 14/05/2025 10:01:27
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Replying To Overthebar53: "You don't know that.Poacher changed the whole set up,who is to say he wouldn't have succeeded anyway..The previous manager was appointed without any rigour being applied." Have you seen Poacher's travails in Leitrim? In Rolling Stones terms, he's clearly better as Keith, not Mick. Great sidekick, not as good as a frontman.
CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 863 - 14/05/2025 11:05:27
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