Monaghan Forum

Championship 2019

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Replying To Bernardo:  "Knox's east is in Cavan Knox's west in Monaghan. I am from Monaghan."
Knocks East is in Cavan is it ?
You have a strange relationship with the truth.

Knoxboya (Monaghan) - Posts: 284 - 19/05/2019 18:12:46    2185540

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Replying To Knoxboya:  "Knocks East is in Cavan is it ?
You have a strange relationship with the truth."
Should have read as good as in Cavan.

Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 491 - 19/05/2019 19:59:15    2185598

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Replying To Monaghan2000:  "McManus coming off the bench..he's by miles our best player..Drew Wylie needs to be dropped immediately he was completely off the pace tonight..management thought paudie mckenna was worth a start I wonder what goes through Malachys head sometimes."
Was kinda talking about early rounds if we are out against the Waterfords and Wexfords of this world again no point McManus playing in those games. Of course he is our best player but he's 32 and probably has a season or two left so a player of his vintage shouldn't be flogged to death in these games with 2 or 3 lads hanging out of him. Jack missing last night was a big blow our point scoring and attacking efforts were junior B standard at times. Lot of posters understandably down today but this group of players have given us some great days out and owe us nothing. I sincerely hope i am wrong but I'll be v surprised if they make it through the qualifers this time round as I think first decent hard running team they get that will be it. The legs have gone in the key positions due to father time and a lot of football played and it won't be until next season or likely the one after that when good replacements are blooded from the underage ranks. One last thing if I am wrong which is always possible as just one opinion on a supporters forum I'll recommend malachy o rourke print off a few of our media reports from last night including the Joe Brolly post match analysis for a little bit of motivation for the players. I hear the boot was put in pretty quickly by the derryman on the final whistle on commentary.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1465 - 19/05/2019 20:46:31    2185635

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Of all the downsides to this game - one feature stands out.... why is out counter attack so lethargic and pedestrian? It almost a feels strategic to slow the game down!! The pace (or lack there-off!) of our attacks allowed Cavan to regroup and set up their defensive structure. It's not a new phenomenon for Monaghan but Undoubtedly more pace should enable us to puncture any defense with the quality and strength of our ball carriers and who knows - maybe even score a goal or two !!!

GerryD (Monaghan) - Posts: 322 - 19/05/2019 22:41:02    2185684

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Im shocked at the amount of people on here thinking we will win on Saturday night.....You's do know we are missing Darren Hughes,Kieran Hughes,Niall Kierans,and Barry Kerr???????????

Plus the fact that this is Cavan's All Ireland final, after all they did pull their players from club football 4 weeks ago to make sure everyone would be ready for this game,there management have made it quite clear that this is the game they are going to be ready for from the start of the year.

Add all that to the fact we a weaker now than we have ever been because of the Managements failure to inject new blood to the panel when the clearly knew we badly needed players around the middle but ignored it.........that will come home to roost Saturday evening,shocking decision from them.......and please dont say theres no players out there because there is they werent called up and thats a fact............how you can judge a player on a 10 minute run out 6 years ago and disgard him now that he has matured into a fine player is disgraceful.

ive a bad feeling about it,cant blame the players their a credit,they flogg themselfs all year for the jersey,just a pity Management wouldnt give them a hand by adding to the squad to bulid a proper panel!!!!

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1339 - 14/05/2019 14:12:07


Has it finally sunk in now.........................

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 19/05/2019 23:18:27    2185704

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Why is malachy not being called out.. lost it on the line simple as..

detruth (Monaghan) - Posts: 193 - 20/05/2019 08:10:15    2185734

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It was a pretty dire performance, especially first half. Only really Hughes, maybe Boyle and Kieran Duffy when he came on played up to the required level.

The first-half approach was like an early season challenge game with hardly a tackle put in at all and players being easily beaten or jinked around. Better second half but the damage was already done. Referee didn't help either.

There were a couple of obvious issues with the staring line up. Keiran Duffy, Darren Hughes, Niall Kearns and Vinnie Corey were all missing from last year's team at the start and that's a serious amount of physical power gone, even the commentators mentioned during the parade that Monaghan were lacking in that department. Two of the replacements for these were O'Hanlon and McKenna. There is no comparison in terms of physique there. There were no big hits or the drive that Hughes and Corey bring to the team and nobody else stood up and really took their place which is a problem.

O'Hanlon needs to learn to run away from contact until he is stronger. His speed is a serious weapon, the frees and scores will come if he avoids going into contact. Referees aren't going to give him easy frees. It was obvious in the league. That said it wasn't his fault that Monaghan's forward play was so poor. Carey deosn't have the power or pace to beat his man and while he can knock over a point 2 occasionally I'd have Owen Duffy ahead of him for the next few games. He can run, he's big and if he's on form he'll score a few points.

Midfield is the real killer though. Hughes/Kelly did OK but they are needed elsewhere in the team. Surely there's got to be someone over 6 foot that can do a spoiling job and free up at least one of Hughes and Kelly. The teams Monaghan are likely to meet in the qualifiers will have two big midfielders if nothing else and Monaghan will struggle against them unless this is addressed. Last year with Kearns/Hughes Monaghan generally won the midfield battle against teams that they would have struggled against in the past, the result an all ireland semi-final. This year without that midfield they're out in the first round and probably going to struggle to make it through the qualifiers. If Monaghan pull a div 4 team then there is scope to give someone a shot. Work needs to be done by the management team to dig someone up.

PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 59 - 20/05/2019 10:13:43    2185782

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One further point, Aidan O'Rourke has given his take on the game on the RTE website this morning and he's very much of the opinion that Monaghan are not finished due to age, wear and tear etc (unlike as some else mentioned certain Derry man) but need to adjust the their mental approach to regroup for the remainder of the season, which I think has been discussed on this forum on more than one occasion.

PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 59 - 20/05/2019 10:26:26    2185792

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is that the man who failed to get the job 7 yrs ago

neutral (None) - Posts: 290 - 20/05/2019 10:57:09    2185812

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what do we do? we dust ourselves off and move on. cavan are a top 10 team. we're possibly a top 7. they had home advantage and hunger...its actually not that big a scalp (predicted by quite a few people) but fierce disappointing nonetheless.

The draw will be interesting. when's that made? hopefully avoid an ulster team.

MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 103 - 20/05/2019 11:10:10    2185822

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Replying To hardcore:  "Im shocked at the amount of people on here thinking we will win on Saturday night.....You's do know we are missing Darren Hughes,Kieran Hughes,Niall Kierans,and Barry Kerr???????????

Plus the fact that this is Cavan's All Ireland final, after all they did pull their players from club football 4 weeks ago to make sure everyone would be ready for this game,there management have made it quite clear that this is the game they are going to be ready for from the start of the year.

Add all that to the fact we a weaker now than we have ever been because of the Managements failure to inject new blood to the panel when the clearly knew we badly needed players around the middle but ignored it.........that will come home to roost Saturday evening,shocking decision from them.......and please dont say theres no players out there because there is they werent called up and thats a fact............how you can judge a player on a 10 minute run out 6 years ago and disgard him now that he has matured into a fine player is disgraceful.

ive a bad feeling about it,cant blame the players their a credit,they flogg themselfs all year for the jersey,just a pity Management wouldnt give them a hand by adding to the squad to bulid a proper panel!!!!

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1339 - 14/05/2019 14:12:07


Has it finally sunk in now.........................
"
As regards "not being able to judge a player from a 10 minute run 6 years ago", I take it you don't see much club football Hardcore, otherwise you'd know that the player in question has not done enough at club level to be in consideration for the county panel, and there are no players outside the county panel that are yet ready to be thrown in to midfield. And these players that you want to be blooded, the reason they aren't in the starting 15 is because they're not yet good enough. You really do want Mal to pull starter-caliber players out of thin air.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 20/05/2019 12:06:32    2185864

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The first 10 seconds of the match showed that we had no midfielder on the pitch. That's not Hughes or Kellys fault. Cavan win clean possession Kelly stood off. Back in the day a midfielder had no option but to pass backwards or be fouled from the throw in.
Everyone on this forum have been in agreement (for years now) that we need to unearth new midfield options. I don't buy this excuse that a player needs time to bed in. Did Kearns? No he got a chance, took it and now is our only true midfielder on that panel.
There was no excuse for that first half performance, particularly against Cavan (sometimes I wonder if the north and east contingent fully appreciate the intense rivalry involved)
Having said that Cavan were good, and if they play like that going forward will make the super 8s and will do well in it. They have limitations in their squad in that if a certain couple of players get injured they would struggle, just like us.
There is no reason why we should not go on a run and make the super 8s, we are good enough. We have to perform for 70 minutes every match or we are out, play like that again and the end of an era beckons.

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 770 - 20/05/2019 13:04:14    2185893

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Replying To PolicemanFox:  "It was a pretty dire performance, especially first half. Only really Hughes, maybe Boyle and Kieran Duffy when he came on played up to the required level.

The first-half approach was like an early season challenge game with hardly a tackle put in at all and players being easily beaten or jinked around. Better second half but the damage was already done. Referee didn't help either.

There were a couple of obvious issues with the staring line up. Keiran Duffy, Darren Hughes, Niall Kearns and Vinnie Corey were all missing from last year's team at the start and that's a serious amount of physical power gone, even the commentators mentioned during the parade that Monaghan were lacking in that department. Two of the replacements for these were O'Hanlon and McKenna. There is no comparison in terms of physique there. There were no big hits or the drive that Hughes and Corey bring to the team and nobody else stood up and really took their place which is a problem.

O'Hanlon needs to learn to run away from contact until he is stronger. His speed is a serious weapon, the frees and scores will come if he avoids going into contact. Referees aren't going to give him easy frees. It was obvious in the league. That said it wasn't his fault that Monaghan's forward play was so poor. Carey deosn't have the power or pace to beat his man and while he can knock over a point 2 occasionally I'd have Owen Duffy ahead of him for the next few games. He can run, he's big and if he's on form he'll score a few points.

Midfield is the real killer though. Hughes/Kelly did OK but they are needed elsewhere in the team. Surely there's got to be someone over 6 foot that can do a spoiling job and free up at least one of Hughes and Kelly. The teams Monaghan are likely to meet in the qualifiers will have two big midfielders if nothing else and Monaghan will struggle against them unless this is addressed. Last year with Kearns/Hughes Monaghan generally won the midfield battle against teams that they would have struggled against in the past, the result an all ireland semi-final. This year without that midfield they're out in the first round and probably going to struggle to make it through the qualifiers. If Monaghan pull a div 4 team then there is scope to give someone a shot. Work needs to be done by the management team to dig someone up."
I thought we would be murdered in Midfield, given the injuries and with McKiernan back for Cavan. But as the stats on the Sunday Game showed, we actually won more ball from the kickouts than Cavan!

The problem wasn't a new one unfortunately; lack of pace and penetration, refusing to mix it up and go direct, and above all poor decision making in the final third time and time again! It really is too easy to set up against Monaghan as never a surprise with their tactics, so even limited teams can turn them over as has happened every year since 2015!

The forwards really lack composure also when taking relatively straightforward scores within the 45. Yes Cavan put them under pressure, but you have to be able to cope with that at this level. Stark contrast in the scoring efficiency of both Armagh and Down yesterday who took some great scores from acute angles and under pressure.

Lastly, given the attacking limitations, we have to stope conceding goals in the first 5/10 minutes of games as putting us right up against it from the get go! How many games this year has it happened already!?

Need to shake up the forward line for the qualifiers, and need to start trying out a more direct and fast counter attacking game. If Mickey Harte can change Tyrone's style to good effect, no reason Malachy can't take the same approach.

Tiarnach87 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1 - 20/05/2019 14:01:53    2185919

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Replying To PolicemanFox:  "It was a pretty dire performance, especially first half. Only really Hughes, maybe Boyle and Kieran Duffy when he came on played up to the required level.

The first-half approach was like an early season challenge game with hardly a tackle put in at all and players being easily beaten or jinked around. Better second half but the damage was already done. Referee didn't help either.

There were a couple of obvious issues with the staring line up. Keiran Duffy, Darren Hughes, Niall Kearns and Vinnie Corey were all missing from last year's team at the start and that's a serious amount of physical power gone, even the commentators mentioned during the parade that Monaghan were lacking in that department. Two of the replacements for these were O'Hanlon and McKenna. There is no comparison in terms of physique there. There were no big hits or the drive that Hughes and Corey bring to the team and nobody else stood up and really took their place which is a problem.

O'Hanlon needs to learn to run away from contact until he is stronger. His speed is a serious weapon, the frees and scores will come if he avoids going into contact. Referees aren't going to give him easy frees. It was obvious in the league. That said it wasn't his fault that Monaghan's forward play was so poor. Carey deosn't have the power or pace to beat his man and while he can knock over a point 2 occasionally I'd have Owen Duffy ahead of him for the next few games. He can run, he's big and if he's on form he'll score a few points.

Midfield is the real killer though. Hughes/Kelly did OK but they are needed elsewhere in the team. Surely there's got to be someone over 6 foot that can do a spoiling job and free up at least one of Hughes and Kelly. The teams Monaghan are likely to meet in the qualifiers will have two big midfielders if nothing else and Monaghan will struggle against them unless this is addressed. Last year with Kearns/Hughes Monaghan generally won the midfield battle against teams that they would have struggled against in the past, the result an all ireland semi-final. This year without that midfield they're out in the first round and probably going to struggle to make it through the qualifiers. If Monaghan pull a div 4 team then there is scope to give someone a shot. Work needs to be done by the management team to dig someone up."
''Midfield is the real killer though. Hughes/Kelly did OK but they are needed elsewhere in the team. Surely there's got to be someone over 6 foot that can do a spoiling job and free up at least one of Hughes and Kelly.''

I'm sure there is but sure they won't get a go, we most be the only team in the country not to try something or promote youth, we seen what happened with Kearns when he was given the chance... Owen Duffy for Carey? fair enough but why not try McGinn or Mealiff, Bannigan got a good 10 minutes max the other night and looked to be the one of the few interested.. Why are these lads on the panel if they won't be used? I'm honestly surprised Corey and Mone weren't brought on just like they were in Healy Park when the game was well over. Someday and the other night in Breffni was just a taste of what it'll be like when we've no plan B and all of a sudden we have a team with a lot of young experienced players

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 694 - 20/05/2019 14:42:16    2185932

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "''Midfield is the real killer though. Hughes/Kelly did OK but they are needed elsewhere in the team. Surely there's got to be someone over 6 foot that can do a spoiling job and free up at least one of Hughes and Kelly.''

I'm sure there is but sure they won't get a go, we most be the only team in the country not to try something or promote youth, we seen what happened with Kearns when he was given the chance... Owen Duffy for Carey? fair enough but why not try McGinn or Mealiff, Bannigan got a good 10 minutes max the other night and looked to be the one of the few interested.. Why are these lads on the panel if they won't be used? I'm honestly surprised Corey and Mone weren't brought on just like they were in Healy Park when the game was well over. Someday and the other night in Breffni was just a taste of what it'll be like when we've no plan B and all of a sudden we have a team with a lot of young experienced players"
You can sing all of that. Other than O'Hanlon and B Kerr who left the panel (alot of men left the panel recently), there's been very little new blood. McGinn in particular must be just hanging on at this stage. 2 minutes against Kerry in the snow for a man who was the main man in the U21 title team and who is "fully fit", is hard to understand. Obviously not a "favourite".

We got what we deserved the other night. Actually 4 points was not a fair reflection on Cavan's dominance. And fair play to them.

Management talked after about dusting ourselves down and no energy in the first half. Who's responsibility is that ?

3 Ulster final appearances just passed us by. 2013 and 15 are distant memories at this stage. And a more recent very winnable semi.

Miss opportunities, regrets, unfulfilled potential ..........

Mon79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 20/05/2019 15:21:42    2185943

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This defeat feels much worse than down and fermanagh as at least in those years we showed some form in league and championship leading up to it so you could argue was a bad day at the office. Here we have been poor all year a lot of us would not have been massively suprised by Saturday night and confidence really cannot be good in the camp especially when you hear of young lads leaving the panel. Big challenge facing malachy and mgmt ahead of qualifers.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1465 - 20/05/2019 17:27:00    2185996

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Still no All Ireland, aw well.

Setantawatchl (Cavan) - Posts: 131 - 20/05/2019 17:40:32    2186002

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Replying To Mon79:  "You can sing all of that. Other than O'Hanlon and B Kerr who left the panel (alot of men left the panel recently), there's been very little new blood. McGinn in particular must be just hanging on at this stage. 2 minutes against Kerry in the snow for a man who was the main man in the U21 title team and who is "fully fit", is hard to understand. Obviously not a "favourite".

We got what we deserved the other night. Actually 4 points was not a fair reflection on Cavan's dominance. And fair play to them.

Management talked after about dusting ourselves down and no energy in the first half. Who's responsibility is that ?

3 Ulster final appearances just passed us by. 2013 and 15 are distant memories at this stage. And a more recent very winnable semi.

Miss opportunities, regrets, unfulfilled potential .........."
From the outside looking in, I'd say that's a very harsh assessment of Malachy's tenure.

Remember, since 2013 Donegal and Tyrone have both made all Ireland finals. To win 2 Ulster titles in that time is no small feat. And that's with relatively little in the way of underage success producing a conveyor belt of players to the senior panel.

I would say Malachy has got as much as he possible could have out of this group and I don't think you can point the finger at him for a 1 point defeat in an all Ireland semi final (or the 2013 quarter final).

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3965 - 20/05/2019 18:32:57    2186034

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A few comments.
- Darren Hughes was badly missed not just for his midfield play but especially for his sweeper role where he has the - in the first half Cavan broke through our defence time after time.
- Our two best players were Kieran Hughes and Conor Boyle, yet neither played a big role in last year's championship. So not one of the players who gave us such a great run in nine championship games last year where we lost only two and by one point each time played well yesterday. No surprise we lost!
- We start each game so defensively so as not to concede an early goal. But this means we are so often - not always but often - having to come from behind. You just can't keep doing that and not pay the price some days. (And we didn't prevent the goal yesterday even though it was never a penalty!)

Vofster (Monaghan) - Posts: 7 - 20/05/2019 20:48:15    2186083

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Look lads. No need for panic or hysteria. We got one game further last year & ended up topping the group in the super 8's & getting to an AI semi. Lots of improvement needed & better game management essential, but all is not lost. Form is a temporary thing. Keep the faith & let our neighbours enjoy their first moment in the sun in many years.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 780 - 20/05/2019 21:56:20    2186107

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