Monaghan Forum

Championship 2019

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Replying To Setantawatchl:  "Still no All Ireland, aw well."
You think not beating Cavan rules us out of winning an all Ireland?
Get off our forum you idiot.

Monaghan2000 (Monaghan) - Posts: 39 - 20/05/2019 23:47:04    2186130

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Replying To greysoil:  "Look lads. No need for panic or hysteria. We got one game further last year & ended up topping the group in the super 8's & getting to an AI semi. Lots of improvement needed & better game management essential, but all is not lost. Form is a temporary thing. Keep the faith & let our neighbours enjoy their first moment in the sun in many years."
Five

Setantawatchl (Cavan) - Posts: 131 - 21/05/2019 05:19:02    2186148

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Disappointed but not surprised. It's been discussed enough above. Great to see k Hughes back. Thought he had a fine 1st half. Conor Boyle did well also. Who is our sports pschycologist (if any!). They should be sacked. We have the players but our attitude was all wrong (yet again).

montheman (Monaghan) - Posts: 28 - 21/05/2019 07:08:35    2186150

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I would imagine you will be hoping for the rub of the green in the qualifier draw again this year. I was quietly confident of a Cavan win because even though league results didn't go our way there was great improvements from last year and it was pretty obvious where the problems were and in fairness to Mickey Graham he has worked on them over the last 2 months. Still a lot to be worked on from a Cavan perspective especially kick outs but i'm sure we will give Armagh a game.

Best of luck in the quallifers.

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 605 - 21/05/2019 08:44:31    2186163

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Replying To Monaghan2000:  "You think not beating Cavan rules us out of winning an all Ireland?
Get off our forum you idiot."
Ignore that Amadán. Has nothing to contribute to his own forum so now trying to get a reaction here. An embarrassment to the genuine Cavan supporters.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 781 - 21/05/2019 10:32:22    2186206

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Hello Neighbours. If your disappointment is on the same scale as my satisfaction then you are going to have a long week!
But I am genuinely not here to wind anybody up just to make a few observations. First of all, any right thinking Cavan supporter recognizes what happened on Saturday evening. We played our best football in years and your team looked at their worst in a while. A 4 point win resulted. Is this a sign of a shift in the balance of power? Maybe so. All the same Cavan have a long way to go before proving anything, The penalty- I don't understand why people are debating it. It was clearly and definitively not a foul. There was no push on Madden and Beggan got the ball. Had it a big effect on the pattern of the game? Yes. Had an effect on the ultimate outcome? I hope you can admit that it hadn't. This was Cavan's day regardless. Where does it leave both teams? With respect, my sense of Monaghan is that they look a team that's behind the curve in overall prep. O'Rourke suddenly has a big problem. I don't think you would come out Brewster Park or Newry next round based on Saturday night, A handy draw will be needed to at least to buy time. Make it into June and who knows where you end up yet.
For ourselves, we need to recognise the overdue win for what it was. We will be too strong and have too much football for Armagh. Tyrone in a final is a different story. Being realistic I think we will need a favour from Donegal against them in the semi. Finally, fair play to the Monaghan supporters who were big enough to take on the chin since Saturday. Maybe we will meet again over the summer and I won't be betting the house on a win if we do.

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 466 - 21/05/2019 11:21:24    2186230

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Replying To MadgeKing:  "Hello Neighbours. If your disappointment is on the same scale as my satisfaction then you are going to have a long week!
But I am genuinely not here to wind anybody up just to make a few observations. First of all, any right thinking Cavan supporter recognizes what happened on Saturday evening. We played our best football in years and your team looked at their worst in a while. A 4 point win resulted. Is this a sign of a shift in the balance of power? Maybe so. All the same Cavan have a long way to go before proving anything, The penalty- I don't understand why people are debating it. It was clearly and definitively not a foul. There was no push on Madden and Beggan got the ball. Had it a big effect on the pattern of the game? Yes. Had an effect on the ultimate outcome? I hope you can admit that it hadn't. This was Cavan's day regardless. Where does it leave both teams? With respect, my sense of Monaghan is that they look a team that's behind the curve in overall prep. O'Rourke suddenly has a big problem. I don't think you would come out Brewster Park or Newry next round based on Saturday night, A handy draw will be needed to at least to buy time. Make it into June and who knows where you end up yet.
For ourselves, we need to recognise the overdue win for what it was. We will be too strong and have too much football for Armagh. Tyrone in a final is a different story. Being realistic I think we will need a favour from Donegal against them in the semi. Finally, fair play to the Monaghan supporters who were big enough to take on the chin since Saturday. Maybe we will meet again over the summer and I won't be betting the house on a win if we do."
Agree with everything you say here...except maybe your confidence vrs armagh? that could be a cracking game. armagh shooting and energy levels a lot better than ours at the weekend and ultimately that's what lost us the game (or did it win you the game?)

I still think our problems can be remedied.. still - i want the handy draw for now

MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 103 - 21/05/2019 12:11:43    2186252

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Replying To cavanman47:  "From the outside looking in, I'd say that's a very harsh assessment of Malachy's tenure.

Remember, since 2013 Donegal and Tyrone have both made all Ireland finals. To win 2 Ulster titles in that time is no small feat. And that's with relatively little in the way of underage success producing a conveyor belt of players to the senior panel.

I would say Malachy has got as much as he possible could have out of this group and I don't think you can point the finger at him for a 1 point defeat in an all Ireland semi final (or the 2013 quarter final)."
To be honest I'd say that's far from harsh. Losing very winnable games to Fermanagh and Down and leaving at least two Ulster final appearances behind is careless considering the quality in that squad. The other night Cavan were so well prepared that they probably would have beaten any team we put out.

Last year we beat nobody in the qualifiers ( with respect to Laois), we beat an average enough Kildare, we drew against a poor Kerry team (for Kerry) when we could / should have had the game won twice over. We certainly put in a great performance against Galway.... and it was a great occasion. And lost a game to Tyrone because Management did not trust the bench. Simple as.

Had not seen a worse Monaghan performance in 7 years than the Galway league game in inniskeen .... until Saturday night. There's a thrend here. Time for a change ... no matter what happens in the next few weeks.

Mon79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 21/05/2019 12:23:27    2186259

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As regards "not being able to judge a player from a 10 minute run 6 years ago", I take it you don't see much club football Hardcore, otherwise you'd know that the player in question has not done enough at club level to be in consideration for the county panel, and there are no players outside the county panel that are yet ready to be thrown in to midfield. And these players that you want to be blooded, the reason they aren't in the starting 15 is because they're not yet good enough. You really do want Mal to pull starter-caliber players out of thin air.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 20/05/2019 12:06:32

I think you will find that I DO see alot of club football........its you and your buddy Mal that dont see any club football if you's think the player that was pulled from nowhere and given a start on Saturday night and had to be taken off after 30 minutes is County standard.................

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 21/05/2019 12:26:45    2186261

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Replying To hardcore:  "As regards "not being able to judge a player from a 10 minute run 6 years ago", I take it you don't see much club football Hardcore, otherwise you'd know that the player in question has not done enough at club level to be in consideration for the county panel, and there are no players outside the county panel that are yet ready to be thrown in to midfield. And these players that you want to be blooded, the reason they aren't in the starting 15 is because they're not yet good enough. You really do want Mal to pull starter-caliber players out of thin air.

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 50 - 20/05/2019 12:06:32

I think you will find that I DO see alot of club football........its you and your buddy Mal that dont see any club football if you's think the player that was pulled from nowhere and given a start on Saturday night and had to be taken off after 30 minutes is County standard................."
I never said that I agreed with the decision to start him. Would just love to know what club players you believe could have contributed at the weekend?

HB245 (Monaghan) - Posts: 80 - 21/05/2019 12:36:08    2186263

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Who is our sports pschycologist (if any!). They should be sacked. We have the players but our attitude was all wrong (yet again).


This.

In a broader sense, we may be an aging team, but the first 35 minutes, in the first championship match, in a local derby, what possible reason could we have for being so far off the pace other than being completely mentally ill-prepared?

Fitness doesn't come in to it at that point. Having miles on the clock doesn't come in to it at that point. Where was the focused aggression, the intensity, the will to win? Right from the very first Cavan score - easy as pie, win the throw in, couple of passes later, ball over the bar, not a hand laid on anyone.

OK, we had injuries, our team wasn't our first choice 15, but if you don't turn up, you deserve to get beaten.

Down in 2017, we got caught mentally looking at an Ulster final instead of the semi in front of us. Shouldn't have happened. Fermanagh in 2018, we got caught the same way again. Unforgiveable. Saturday, more of the same. We all know that Monaghan are capable of pulling a terrible display out of the bag, the inconsistency is a killer. But even so, Saturday was a new low. First championship game, months to prepare, and we just don't turn up? If we get beaten, but we put in a performance, fine, that happens. But to be absent for such large periods?

I'm sure the lads are feeling it 100x more than we are this week, at least I hope they are, because maybe, just maybe, they can use that hurt as motivation. It's either that, or they throw the towel in, lie down, and the squad as we know it is finished.

moodoo (Monaghan) - Posts: 369 - 21/05/2019 12:40:16    2186270

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Replying To Mon79:  "To be honest I'd say that's far from harsh. Losing very winnable games to Fermanagh and Down and leaving at least two Ulster final appearances behind is careless considering the quality in that squad. The other night Cavan were so well prepared that they probably would have beaten any team we put out.

Last year we beat nobody in the qualifiers ( with respect to Laois), we beat an average enough Kildare, we drew against a poor Kerry team (for Kerry) when we could / should have had the game won twice over. We certainly put in a great performance against Galway.... and it was a great occasion. And lost a game to Tyrone because Management did not trust the bench. Simple as.

Had not seen a worse Monaghan performance in 7 years than the Galway league game in inniskeen .... until Saturday night. There's a thrend here. Time for a change ... no matter what happens in the next few weeks."
The Monaghan game in Inniskeen v Galway has a lot of parallels with Saturday, the main one being that we didn't start playing until we were behind. If Galway had scored their goal 5 minutes earlier, we would have goal that kick up the arse earlier and probably won the game. We need to start being proactive not reactive.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 451 - 21/05/2019 13:14:16    2186293

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Replying To montheman:  "Disappointed but not surprised. It's been discussed enough above. Great to see k Hughes back. Thought he had a fine 1st half. Conor Boyle did well also. Who is our sports pschycologist (if any!). They should be sacked. We have the players but our attitude was all wrong (yet again)."
Sports psychologist's don't fashion the attitude of the squad.Management do. Our attitude is based on negativity and mistrust.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 451 - 21/05/2019 13:20:35    2186295

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Replying To Setantawatchl:  "Five"
When are you six

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 770 - 21/05/2019 13:30:28    2186304

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Disappointing to loose on saturday night but I can nearly imagine that Malachy O Rourke will be sitting at home quite satisfied and happy enough. Why?
Imagine we had beaten Cavan on Saturday night( and only for a jammy penalty we would have) we would then go into a battle with a decent Armagh side who would throw the kitchen sink at us to reach their goal of an ulster Final, this would be a battle and we would have to be at 80 or 90% to beat them. Move onto the final against Tyrone or Donegal a game that would be 50:50 and would be a gut wrenching energy sapping battle that would require us to peak at 100% to win and with Tyrone and Donegal going hell for leather, imagine the will and the energy needed to win this and then if we win we would face a super 8s group after 3 of the toughest games and already peaked in the ulster final and showing our hand, and if we loose the ulster final which would be quite possible we have a 6 day turn around against a team on a roll in the qualifiers after a stamina sapping ulster final. WHOA, been there done that, no thanks.
Now we are in the qualifiers and have a highly good chance of getting division 3 or 4 teams in which will be challenge matches in the first 2 rounds, maybe out of the first 3 rounds we will get 1 tough game and at the worst 2 tough games but against teams who are beneath us. Then in the round 4 we will more than likely be up against Cork armagh, meath or Galway/Mayo. Only teams to avoid is Mayo or Galway. Cavan wont beat Armagh. LoL
The great thing about losing to Cavan is that we played at 50 or 60%. No team would learn anything from our performance against Cavan. NOTHING. We haven't showed our hands at all.
Why kill ourselves with another 2 or 3 gut wrenching games in ulster when you can take a good chance in the qualifiers. And who is the worst case scenario, Down and Derry who both went for the juggler and played at 100% in their Ulster games/

I can assure you, in the long run we are far better off with 2 weeks to prepare for a qualifier game and get men back on track, men fit and hungry and then a week off between the round 1 and 2 to get things settled for the big push for rounds 3 and 4. We are not longing for an ulster title and our long term goals will show in the qualifier run we will go on.

monaghanmad (Monaghan) - Posts: 186 - 21/05/2019 23:00:01    2186475

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Monaghan are becoming the opposite of Derry in the championship. Derry always have one big game and Monaghan have one stinker.
Fair play to Cavan, I thought they were good but Monaghan looked so flat and lethargic. It was a very unMonaghan like display. The injuries played their part but too many players lacked the intensity needed for this game.
I know some of your posters are looking at the silver lining of the qualifiers but what truthfully do you think Monaghan could achieve this year. Personally I think an all Ireland was beyond them even before last week and that Ulster would be their only chance of silverware. With that gone, is their belief with the players that they can win the all Ireland? If not then would qualifying for the super 8's be enough motivation? It's my opinion that this will be management's biggest challenge.
Good luck in the qualifiers.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1592 - 22/05/2019 00:26:21    2186489

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A game we should have won. We went in 7 down at halftime. We missed 7 really straightforward scores in the first half. Under minimal/no pressure and still couldn't put the ball over the bar. One was a fisted chance, two into the keepers arms, three other wides and a missed free from Beggan slightly to the right of the posts when he kicked one clinker from the sideline earlier.

One of the wides was from McManus, 13m out. He's kicked hundreds of them over for us. When the camera panned to him after that miss he looked tired. About 2 minutes prior to that miss he was inside our own 20m line. He was standing behind the ball, goalside of the play. Why is the best forward in the country sitting as a sweeper almost? Is he doing it because he's the leader, the best player and sees it as his duty to work hard etc and track his man... or is he being told to do that?? I really hope it's the former because if it's the latter then whoever is telling him to do that needs to be far far away from coaching Gaelic Football. McManus was doing the same thing again near the end of the half, just sitting behind the ball covering space. Again late doors in the 72nd minute, he's outside our D. Monaghan are better than Cavan, there's no ifs or buts but like FootblockRef said, we are drowning in negativity. It's so blatantly obvious it's scary.

Cavan had a sweeper sitting in front of our full forward line. Now, every man, woman and child ( granted it would need to be a particularly intelligent child) going to Breffni on Saturday evening knew they would do that. I was in Portland and even I knew it. Sometimes he sat in front of Conor and sometimes in front of O'Hanlon. If Basil Fawlty was playing corner forward he would have sat in front of him. Are we not able to think outside the box on this just a little?? The Cavan sweeper ran straight back into the defence at both throw-ups. Why not start an extra forward and have him mark that sweeper. Did anyone from our camp go and watch Cavan in their league games?? Ryan Wylie was our free man and he had his usual very good performance. Imagine he was a forward, free to do what he wanted out round the Cavan D or midfield without responsibility to go back and cover space, mark someone or take the ball from short kick-outs? Why not play them at their own game. In sport you need to make it hard for the other team and keep them guessing. You don't let them have things their way. But when you're Monaghan you do. Again, we are better than them!!!! Why are we doing these stupid negative things?? There is still tonnes of football left in this Monaghan team, we just need to figure out how to best harness it.

I honestly didn't think Cavan were spectacular. They played pretty well while we were chronic the first half. Which Cavan is the real one?? The slick, intense, skillful one we saw the first half or the decent, honest but nervy one we saw the second?? There's a reason they bounce up and down between Div 1 and 2.

Those 6 easy missed chances in the first half killed us, not the penalty. Cavan kicked some really great scores and got the dodgy penalty. Will they get a dodgy penalty the next day out and kick some great points from tight angles?? Remember the Longford game in 2016. Unlike Saturday that was a fluke of a result but they kicked outrageous points that day. Next day out they lost by 7 or 8 points to an average Cork team. I don't particularly care how far Cavan go in the C'Ship, they won't win a trophy but for their sake hopefully they don't pull a Longford.

One last thing, I hate getting on the player's backs but Beggan was very poor with the penalty. He's bouncing up and down moving out as the penalty is struck which will never ever give you a high percentage chance at saving a penalty. It wasn't even a good penalty. Hit at a nice height, about 3 feet in from the post. Very saveable. But sure look the Cavan fella had trials at Burnley.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 746 - 22/05/2019 03:57:12    2186497

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Disappointing to loose on saturday night but I can nearly imagine that Malachy O Rourke will be sitting at home quite satisfied and happy enough. Why?
Imagine we had beaten Cavan on Saturday night( and only for a jammy penalty we would have) we would then go into a battle with a decent Armagh side who would throw the kitchen sink at us to reach their goal of an ulster Final, this would be a battle and we would have to be at 80 or 90% to beat them. Move onto the final against Tyrone or Donegal a game that would be 50:50 and would be a gut wrenching energy sapping battle that would require us to peak at 100% to win and with Tyrone and Donegal going hell for leather, imagine the will and the energy needed to win this and then if we win we would face a super 8s group after 3 of the toughest games and already peaked in the ulster final and showing our hand, and if we loose the ulster final which would be quite possible we have a 6 day turn around against a team on a roll in the qualifiers after a stamina sapping ulster final. WHOA, been there done that, no thanks.
Now we are in the qualifiers and have a highly good chance of getting division 3 or 4 teams in which will be challenge matches in the first 2 rounds, maybe out of the first 3 rounds we will get 1 tough game and at the worst 2 tough games but against teams who are beneath us. Then in the round 4 we will more than likely be up against Cork armagh, meath or Galway/Mayo. Only teams to avoid is Mayo or Galway. Cavan wont beat Armagh. LoL
The great thing about losing to Cavan is that we played at 50 or 60%. No team would learn anything from our performance against Cavan. NOTHING. We haven't showed our hands at all.
Why kill ourselves with another 2 or 3 gut wrenching games in ulster when you can take a good chance in the qualifiers. And who is the worst case scenario, Down and Derry who both went for the juggler and played at 100% in their Ulster games/

I can assure you, in the long run we are far better off with 2 weeks to prepare for a qualifier game and get men back on track, men fit and hungry and then a week off between the round 1 and 2 to get things settled for the big push for rounds 3 and 4. We are not longing for an ulster title and our long term goals will show in the qualifier run we will go on."
Yea I get ur point but totally disagree... The only reason a loss against cavan in the first round is a positive thing is if the semi is against donegal or Tyrone. And that's at a stretch.. We shouldn't be fearing armagh. Also getting to an ulster final is surely the easiest way of getting to the super 8s (barr maybe last year's lucky run)...

The way we're playing at the moment: we can easily be out of the all ireland championship in the next round... That's a scarier thought than facing armagh.

I suppose ur point is "take one step back and two steps forward"... Dya know who did do that very well? Cavan. Relegation to division 2 will give them a great opportunity to play around with their squad next year. And now all of a sudden they have a wiff of an ulster final.

I would've agreed with ur point in 2016 when we went through two gruelling tests and ultimately came out second vrs donegal. Then hadta play Longford the following week and clearly just not able...

Hard to agree now. We just weren't at the races. We were lucky to come second in that game. We deserved 3rd or 4th.. Nothing about it fills me with confidence

MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 103 - 22/05/2019 08:20:07    2186510

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Disappointing to loose on saturday night but I can nearly imagine that Malachy O Rourke will be sitting at home quite satisfied and happy enough. Why?
Imagine we had beaten Cavan on Saturday night( and only for a jammy penalty we would have) we would then go into a battle with a decent Armagh side who would throw the kitchen sink at us to reach their goal of an ulster Final, this would be a battle and we would have to be at 80 or 90% to beat them. Move onto the final against Tyrone or Donegal a game that would be 50:50 and would be a gut wrenching energy sapping battle that would require us to peak at 100% to win and with Tyrone and Donegal going hell for leather, imagine the will and the energy needed to win this and then if we win we would face a super 8s group after 3 of the toughest games and already peaked in the ulster final and showing our hand, and if we loose the ulster final which would be quite possible we have a 6 day turn around against a team on a roll in the qualifiers after a stamina sapping ulster final. WHOA, been there done that, no thanks.
Now we are in the qualifiers and have a highly good chance of getting division 3 or 4 teams in which will be challenge matches in the first 2 rounds, maybe out of the first 3 rounds we will get 1 tough game and at the worst 2 tough games but against teams who are beneath us. Then in the round 4 we will more than likely be up against Cork armagh, meath or Galway/Mayo. Only teams to avoid is Mayo or Galway. Cavan wont beat Armagh. LoL
The great thing about losing to Cavan is that we played at 50 or 60%. No team would learn anything from our performance against Cavan. NOTHING. We haven't showed our hands at all.
Why kill ourselves with another 2 or 3 gut wrenching games in ulster when you can take a good chance in the qualifiers. And who is the worst case scenario, Down and Derry who both went for the juggler and played at 100% in their Ulster games/

I can assure you, in the long run we are far better off with 2 weeks to prepare for a qualifier game and get men back on track, men fit and hungry and then a week off between the round 1 and 2 to get things settled for the big push for rounds 3 and 4. We are not longing for an ulster title and our long term goals will show in the qualifier run we will go on."
Monaghanmad you are mad. Are you saying we should throw the Ulster Championship just to make a super 8? Front door is the best way. Full stop. If we went through a Ulster championship winning every game think of the confidence that would give us, with medals in the players pockets. Look we can all look at the silver-lining of being out of a provincial championship, but to say that being out is better than being in is BS. And by the way Division 3 teams are a long way off from challenge games. Remember we won Ulster in 2013 from Division 3. The likes of Westmeath, Down, Longford, Carlow would all love a crack at taking us down a peg and with home advantage I wouldn't bet against it happening. In fact given our form, unless there is some serious soul searching from players and management I can see it happening. Bottom line, its time to start winning again. Its like we have forgotten how to do it.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1068 - 22/05/2019 10:15:20    2186542

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Replying To supermon:  "Monaghanmad you are mad. Are you saying we should throw the Ulster Championship just to make a super 8? Front door is the best way. Full stop. If we went through a Ulster championship winning every game think of the confidence that would give us, with medals in the players pockets. Look we can all look at the silver-lining of being out of a provincial championship, but to say that being out is better than being in is BS. And by the way Division 3 teams are a long way off from challenge games. Remember we won Ulster in 2013 from Division 3. The likes of Westmeath, Down, Longford, Carlow would all love a crack at taking us down a peg and with home advantage I wouldn't bet against it happening. In fact given our form, unless there is some serious soul searching from players and management I can see it happening. Bottom line, its time to start winning again. Its like we have forgotten how to do it."
Monaghanmad, As was said in Blazing Saddles "That was authentic frontier gibberish"

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 451 - 22/05/2019 10:32:06    2186548

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