Monaghan Forum

Round 4 Qualifier Opponents

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Replying To OrielPower:  "If the supporters of any county know they should not count their chickens before they hatch, it should be Monaghan's. Let's forget about falling into the trap of talking about Super 8's until we get there!

Laois put in a good performance against the Dubs in the Leinster final in the first half and there is a big difference between them and Leitrim or Waterford. In truth, Laois are a 2nd division team and I would not be surprised to see them progress to divison two next year. They will fight tooth and nail to get to the Super 8's and will be more familiar with the pitch in Navan than Monaghan will be.

Although it was a great weekend in Carrick-on-Shannon there was lots on the field of play that concerned me. We were very open at the back and on another day a team with a free-taker that also took their goal chances would have had that game wrapped up after 20 minutes. Conor Boyle had a poor day and although it's great to see an attacking half back line, we need someone like Drew to shore up the middle as we were cut open at times. We left a lot of scores behind us last Saturday, missed easy frees that we would normally not and the forward unit has still not clicked. Mc Carthy's performance was one of the few positives I took from the game.

So, Monaghan have a hell of a lot to do to get over Laois. Yes, we have the ability to beat Laois if we put in a good performance but it's a while now since we have delivered a 70 minute performance. According to MOR, K Hughes will be fit and I would bring him in on the 40, with Mc Anesbie and Ward or Mc Kenna either side of him with a FF line of Mansey, Mc Carthy and Mc Carron. That reduces our scoring impact of the bench but we still have O Duffy, D Mone, S Carey and others to give it socks when the lads start to tire. So, a big game ahead on Saturday which of course we all know and it's all about the result - even though a performance would be nice too. We can do it but certainly should not take Laois lightly! And then, hopefully...... we will have the Super 8's to look forward to and we will be back where we hoped to be at this time of the year."
According to MOR, K Hughes will be fit and I would bring him in on the 40,

Agree with most of your comments but no way can K Hughes be placed on the 40. Your FF line does not allow for a plan B ............ long ball into FF line.

McCarron, although he has many attribute, is not a ball winner in there like K Hughes......this proven time after time so no debate there. Eoin Duffy/ T Kerr were tried in there against Leitrim (as many others have in past ie D Hughes) with no joy whatsoever.

Many top 8 teams would love to have a FF like K Hughes (J Mc Guinness among others have attested to his prowess in there ) ........we must use him as FF or we've no Plan B and that's a must if were are to progress further this summer !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 03/07/2018 16:00:54    2118126

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What Monaghan team will turn up - that's the question

The slick, clued in Monaghan v Tyrone or the performance v Fermanagh
Waterford and Leitrim games are no barometer for Sunday

conjack76 (Monaghan) - Posts: 67 - 03/07/2018 16:38:44    2118144

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Does anyone know of any buses going? My car has clapped out on me & Im not sure it'll be fixed for Sunday.

BorderlineBlue (Monaghan) - Posts: 6 - 03/07/2018 16:42:15    2118146

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Pauric Hughes of Armagh I think was originally down to ref this game...I'm sure I saw it somewhere I wonder why this has changed?


Laois might not go long ball that seemed to be only the tactic for the Dublin game they like to work it out usually and have some fine kickers of the football.

Their defense is certainly their weak point and I think Monaghan will take advantage of that ...

The clash of the keepers will be interesting along with Cluxton I think we have the next two best on display here in Brody and Beggan!

BigJohn.6_8 (Galway) - Posts: 704 - 03/07/2018 17:01:11    2118152

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Replying To conjack76:  "What Monaghan team will turn up - that's the question

The slick, clued in Monaghan v Tyrone or the performance v Fermanagh
Waterford and Leitrim games are no barometer for Sunday"
Big time any Monaghan side from past 20 years would have walked those matches. We don't really know where the team is at. It's a worry that Tyrone who we beat have looked out of sorts in the qualifiers and fermanagh who were able to close us down were easily beaten by Donegal. I'm sure big questions were asked in the dressing room after the fermanagh match and hopefully we will see them being answered Sunday as laois will win this if we show up just expecting to progress and become locked in a dog fight with them. They will love that as underdogs and we may start to panic as we often do being favourites. Id agree with other posters start K Hughes in at full forward and get plenty of ball in early doors. A good start vital in this match. I remain confident the players know the significance of this game and will deliver.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1503 - 03/07/2018 17:57:02    2118163

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Replying To OrielPower:  "I was going to start by responding/picking you up on some of your comments - but what's the point. We are both Monaghan supporters and we would like to see the team progress. The bottom line is Monaghan are not playing to their full potential (which they are prone to doing and did not need to do so against Leitrim).

Our shared concerns as Monaghan supporters is will they be able to do so now when required against Laois - when they were required to step it up against Fermanagh they were also unable to do so. We know the team are capable of playing good football and that we have a decent squad compared to previous years but our forwards have not clicked yet so perhaps they should just go for it as that appears to be when we play our best football. In a sense you sometimes wonder are the players more concerned with doing what their told and the result than actually letting loose and responding to how the game unfolds as great players do. We have the players and the panel.

Anyway, the team need our support now and hopefully as I said before they get the result in this one which is all that matters, a performance would be a bonus. If they do, the Fermanagh defeat will then truly be put to bed and we can all move on from that shock defeat. I think we need our senior players to set the tone for the rest of the team early in this game, that we need direct running through the middle which is when we are at our most dangerous and hopefully we can then kick on and win the game. Hopefully there are also 10k+ Monaghan fans in Navan this Sunday to support the team. Anyone know who the ref is? My starting team assuming all fit would be the following but I expect MOR will pick a different team.

Beggan
Wylie, Wylie, Kelly/Duffy
Walsh, Corey, O'Connell
Kearns, Hughes
Mc Anesbie, K Hughes, Ward
Mc Carthy, Malone, Mc Manus"
Yeah we all support the team and only want what is best. Conor McCarthy should be starting now. Over the years I didn't think he had the physicality but is developing while maturing. I'd like to see Jack Mccarron in the half forwards in a more play making role. He has no pace for a corner forward position but he's superb at picking a pass. K Hughes should be full forward. Midfield is fine with d Hughes and Kearns. Could be close to a sell out I'd say and should be some atmosohere

montheman (Monaghan) - Posts: 28 - 03/07/2018 20:09:35    2118193

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I cant see why there is such a demand for Kieran Hughes to play at full forward. He has played that position before and was anonymous. He does not have the footwork to get around a defender to win a ball which is dropping in high. A defender only needs to get in the path of the ball and stand there. When he does get in the right position, and jumps from a standing position he can win the ball, but generally ends up on the ground with the ball and is in no position to do anything. He can do damage when he drifts in during the game to full forward, but he cant start there. He becomes too static..He is better at midfield when he can run onto a high ball or from a a kickout if he lands on the ground he wins a mark...

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 739 - 03/07/2018 22:06:32    2118227

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As OrielPower stated lets not fall into the trap of talking about super 8's until we get there, one game at a time, Laois as we know have plenty of potential to cause an upset but in saying that we have every right to be confident we can win this game and progress to the super 8's

Laois like ourselves in ways, have a very good keeper, experienced players and good forwards, saw O'Carroll for UCD earlier on in the year and also in the Leinster final so he's one to keep an eye on and you got Donie Kingston in there too so there's a great challenge in Laois

Monaghan must the hardest team to predict their starting line up in the country, always a good few changes with some spontaneous ones at times,
The team i'd go with
Beggan
R.Wylie C.Boyle C.Walshe
K.O'Connell D.Wylie D.Mone
D.Hughes N.Kearns
R.McAnespie McCarron F.Kelly
McCarthy K.Hughes C.McManus

A lot of people here calling for K.Hughes at FF if it works then keep it, if not then move him about that way he will be another asset in midfield, I think the management sometimes don't change things quick enough or a plan B which has been mentioned, others are mentioning Wylie at CB to shore up the middle and I agree, positioning and reading is good and contributes going forward, McCarron as seen v Tyrone is very good on the ball, smart and sets up the play well so he's worth a go there as I think he is more effective there, Players like D.Ward and Malone arnt in the half forward line as I think the players there (McAnespie and Kelly along with O'Connell) are the most consistent at the moment chipping in with scores and putting in a huge amount of work off the ball and some games just don't suit Ward or Malone so this is where changes are made and good management shows,

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 702 - 04/07/2018 00:16:56    2118277

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I think the bookies have the spread in some places as eight points surely Laois are better and deserve more respect than that?

Word here in a Laois border town is that they are not travelling in big numbers!

They brought a massive support to croker but I think that was a novelity factor and the hurling side of the county even supported them...

"pm throw in on a sunday and nearly a 2 hours treck will put a lot of them off!

BigJohn.6_8 (Galway) - Posts: 704 - 04/07/2018 10:26:09    2118345

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Replying To montheman:  "We have been lucky with our draw so far and had two facile wins over Waterford and Leitrim. Only niggling injuries from the clashes were Drew Wylie and Vinny Corey but I saw them training with the physio on Saturday so hopefully just been cautious with them. Where we are Monaghan at at present? Its hard to know. I'm still not over the Fermanagh loss. After a tremendous win against Tyrone we were clueless against Fermanagh. So many times over the years we have lacked consistency. My biggest fear is that our tactics and style of play has progressed. Against Fermanagh there was no pace and lots of lateral running. Again on Saturday our weaknesses were exposed where Leitrim ran at us and nearly had 2 goals. The good teams will destroy us in this regard. What particularly annoyed me on Saturday was that Conor McManus practically got a standing ovation when he was subbed. Unfortunately he didn't play well on Saturday. Why do we cheer someone that hasn't played well? People say he was man marked….but if you look at the great players like Bernard Brogan, Andy moran etc they make the runs and create the scores. Conor has done this in spurts and not consistently over the last couple of years. If you can't do it against two weak counties how are you gonna do it against the best. Is his Hip still at him? Positives have developed are Niall Kearns and Connor Boyle. Settling in nicely. I would like to see the Wylie Brothers and Colin Walshe been given the freedom to roam more up the pitch as they are very capable of getting scores. Laois will be a big ask on Sunday. It will test where we are at. If we get to the Super 8's I think the format will suit us and the teams in the group are very beatable. Glad about not being in the same group as Dublin. We need to focus on Laois and take it from there."
Your points make a lot of sense. Nobody knows where monaghan are at. I'd even expect the weekend to be miss match if monaghan show up focused and ready for the challenge. Its still Division 1 V Division 4 and monaghan should not be losing this game. I would like to see boyle and kerr continue to start, they havent' done much wrong. In fact mc manus should have been subbed at half time last saturday, game was over-give garland some game time at least. Mc Manus isnt the most paciest forward so he does struggle in that regard-lethal finisher. Surely the thomas kerr experiment is over at this stage.

If Monaghan do get to the super eights, the first game against kildare (probably) is must win. A slip up there and its curtains- I don't see monaghan beating kerry. So yes the next two weeks are huge for this managment team and group of players.

222 (UK) - Posts: 533 - 04/07/2018 10:34:46    2118350

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On his day Kieran can be a very effective target man in at full forward - strong, great ball winner, can take his points and has an eye for goal. However consistency can be an issue for him there. Maybe it's him not being as involved in the game, but he does have off days there too. On the other hand he may still be our best midfielder, certainly the best man to win a clean kickout, and has space to run towards goal and can take a long range point. He's not required as much there now though with the emergence of Kearns, but he'd still be a big asset.

I say switch him between the two spots this weekend and see what works, keep the opposition guessing.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 874 - 04/07/2018 10:34:55    2118351

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Looking back at the bad championship defeats in recent years- Down, Fermanagh, Laois, Longford- there are a few repeated patterns that catch this team out when billed as favourites. Granted the same could be said for other teams but in Monaghan's case it is almost pathological. You know its going to be a bad day when you see
1) Inability to cope with 'poor' ref decisions- we have seen this over and over (Fermanagh a classic), frustration spirals out of control when repeated decisions go against the team. A big part of discipline is to accept your lot with a ref and adjust accordingly. This can be prepared for- some club teams like Latton are masters at it.
2) Not punishing a weaker team when on top- a few players have a tendency to try speculative/ outside-of-the-boot type stuff when coasting early on. This contrasts with the efficiency that the same lads can show when facing the big teams. Play for the high percentage chances no matter who its against (a string of wides against Down last year being an example). Kerry or Dublin keep tapping over from 30m in these situations.
3) Frees go unpunished- weirdly, the less pressure on, the more likely our lads will miss. Part of it may be taking on stuff that is not on e.g. Beggan against Fermanagh when a point ahead. It keeps the opposition alive and in the game
4) Goals, goals, goals- not just any old goal, but the type conceded at crucial times to hammer confidence and cohesion. Usually conceded just before half time, just after or indeed just after taking control of the scoreboard- think Fermanagh this year, Longford, Down early second half penalty, Down just before HT in 2012, Laois on the double.
5) Susceptibility to a big target man- Harrison, McNamaee, McGivney all wrecked defences that didn't look prepared. Leading to goals, soft frees and yellow cards. We have one coming down the tracks on Sunday.
6) A wide open 40 yards channel- we often seem to neglect the primary job of half backs i.e. screening the full backs, when expected to win. Again it allows the opposition to get a foothold in the game and causes easy frees and yellow cards all round.

With all that said, there is indeed a lot to get right for the Laois challenge. Building a simple plan to cut their scores and goal chances is the number one, so the key personnel decisions for MOR are no.3 no.6 and corner backs. You probably have to go with 3 C Boyle and 6 D Wylie. Kieran Duffy deserves his place in the corner to bring some solidity with ability on the ball. However, the failings of recent years have been about the collective and were mostly not driven by individuals/ team selection. Shutting out the goal threat, nailing the simple chances, and playing to the ref's tune will be key.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 733 - 04/07/2018 11:43:09    2118391

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Replying To Farney:  "I cant see why there is such a demand for Kieran Hughes to play at full forward. He has played that position before and was anonymous. He does not have the footwork to get around a defender to win a ball which is dropping in high. A defender only needs to get in the path of the ball and stand there. When he does get in the right position, and jumps from a standing position he can win the ball, but generally ends up on the ground with the ball and is in no position to do anything. He can do damage when he drifts in during the game to full forward, but he cant start there. He becomes too static..He is better at midfield when he can run onto a high ball or from a a kickout if he lands on the ground he wins a mark..."
Name one other Monaghan player, other than K Hughes, that has successfully played FF for us. E Duffy & T Kerr were very poor there against Leitrim, J McCarron is not a target man, even D Hughes was not a success there...........is there some player hidden away that we don't know about.....if there is then I'd be absolutely delighted.

No one is saying that K Hughes would play 100% there all the time but then no player performs to that standard......not even Conor.

We need a target man at FF as it gives us a plan B and no team can hope to progress further without this !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 04/07/2018 13:16:01    2118443

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Rotation keeps the other team guessing and if done right can benefit
In the Ulster final each of the Donegal full forward line spent some time sweeping or in the defence along with Midfielder McFadden, so I agree with rotating Hughes

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 702 - 04/07/2018 13:27:53    2118449

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "As OrielPower stated lets not fall into the trap of talking about super 8's until we get there, one game at a time, Laois as we know have plenty of potential to cause an upset but in saying that we have every right to be confident we can win this game and progress to the super 8's

Laois like ourselves in ways, have a very good keeper, experienced players and good forwards, saw O'Carroll for UCD earlier on in the year and also in the Leinster final so he's one to keep an eye on and you got Donie Kingston in there too so there's a great challenge in Laois

Monaghan must the hardest team to predict their starting line up in the country, always a good few changes with some spontaneous ones at times,
The team i'd go with
Beggan
R.Wylie C.Boyle C.Walshe
K.O'Connell D.Wylie D.Mone
D.Hughes N.Kearns
R.McAnespie McCarron F.Kelly
McCarthy K.Hughes C.McManus

A lot of people here calling for K.Hughes at FF if it works then keep it, if not then move him about that way he will be another asset in midfield, I think the management sometimes don't change things quick enough or a plan B which has been mentioned, others are mentioning Wylie at CB to shore up the middle and I agree, positioning and reading is good and contributes going forward, McCarron as seen v Tyrone is very good on the ball, smart and sets up the play well so he's worth a go there as I think he is more effective there, Players like D.Ward and Malone arnt in the half forward line as I think the players there (McAnespie and Kelly along with O'Connell) are the most consistent at the moment chipping in with scores and putting in a huge amount of work off the ball and some games just don't suit Ward or Malone so this is where changes are made and good management shows,"
Like the look of that team but Malone has to play so move Kelly back instead of Dessie. When we are favourites (deserved or not) we tend to sit back a bit & lose our cutting edge.

Malone always gives you that cutting edge and for me has to play against Laois. With forwards like Conor, K Hughes, McCarthy & McCarron we have more than enough scorers on the field.

Hopefully when Malone's work is done then the bench can be used !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 04/07/2018 13:30:48    2118451

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Replying To patk:  "On his day Kieran can be a very effective target man in at full forward - strong, great ball winner, can take his points and has an eye for goal. However consistency can be an issue for him there. Maybe it's him not being as involved in the game, but he does have off days there too. On the other hand he may still be our best midfielder, certainly the best man to win a clean kickout, and has space to run towards goal and can take a long range point. He's not required as much there now though with the emergence of Kearns, but he'd still be a big asset.

I say switch him between the two spots this weekend and see what works, keep the opposition guessing."
How many times this year has K Hughes played FF for Monaghan for an entire game ?

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 04/07/2018 13:36:16    2118457

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "Rotation keeps the other team guessing and if done right can benefit
In the Ulster final each of the Donegal full forward line spent some time sweeping or in the defence along with Midfielder McFadden, so I agree with rotating Hughes"
Rotating K Hughes ?........that's what we've been doing for the past few years .........it doesn't work.......... no plan B.

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 04/07/2018 13:44:45    2118462

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Will Monaghan bring a big support I'd love to go only I'll be going to thurles to watch Galway v Killkenny.

May the best team win I hope it's a cracking match.

BigJohn.6_8 (Galway) - Posts: 704 - 04/07/2018 16:24:18    2118540

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Name one other Monaghan player, other than K Hughes, that has successfully played FF for us. E Duffy & T Kerr were very poor there against Leitrim, J McCarron is not a target man, even D Hughes was not a success there...........is there some player hidden away that we don't know about.....if there is then I'd be absolutely delighted.

No one is saying that K Hughes would play 100% there all the time but then no player performs to that standard......not even Conor.

We need a target man at FF as it gives us a plan B and no team can hope to progress further without this !"
There is no point in playing him there if he can't win the ball, stay on his feet and score a goal or lay it off... he has played that position and is not effective.. Kieran Hughes as our Full Forward is Plan Z. Thomas Kerr did better last weekend in 20 minutes than Kieran Hughes has ever done there.. He came out and won the ball and layed it off. Kieran Hughes is better at playing in midfield and roam in to the box every now and then..

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 739 - 04/07/2018 17:34:52    2118565

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Replying To anbhoth15:  "The middle part of this post re McManus has to be the biggest load of nonsense ever displayed on this forum"
Agreed....unbelievable the nonsense some people come out with !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 05/07/2018 00:02:28    2118702

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