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Wexford Club Hurling Championship.

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Be very interesting to see if Martins do win it out how they fair out in the Leinster club.

Our standard of senior club hurling is really really poor, not sure if it's a coaching issue or a dual club issue.

2023 - Kilcormac 2-22 Naomh Eanna 0-14

2022 - St Mullins 1-19 Ferns 1-17

2021 - Clough Ballacolla 1-17 Rapps 0-12

2020 - Covid

2019 - Ballyhale Shamrock 5-18 St Martins 1-16

2018 - Ballyhale Shamrocks 6-21 Naomh Eanna 4-11

2017 - Cuala 3-17 St Martins 0-15

Oulart the last team to do the business in Leinster in 2015 and they were not a dual club."
It's a coaching issue, but it's all too easy to blame it on being dual. The standard of hurling coaching and preparation to compete is shockingly bad.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2559 - 08/10/2024 05:21:17    2573573

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Nobody talking about Anne's"
They are the team I'd like to see win it now. Any truth in the rumour Mogie is in Canada and flying in and out for games? Seems a little far fetched even by Wexford rumour standards!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 07:11:59    2573575

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Be very interesting to see if Martins do win it out how they fair out in the Leinster club.

Our standard of senior club hurling is really really poor, not sure if it's a coaching issue or a dual club issue.

2023 - Kilcormac 2-22 Naomh Eanna 0-14

2022 - St Mullins 1-19 Ferns 1-17

2021 - Clough Ballacolla 1-17 Rapps 0-12

2020 - Covid

2019 - Ballyhale Shamrock 5-18 St Martins 1-16

2018 - Ballyhale Shamrocks 6-21 Naomh Eanna 4-11

2017 - Cuala 3-17 St Martins 0-15

Oulart the last team to do the business in Leinster in 2015 and they were not a dual club."
Dual club has to be a factor. At the same time there are only really good teams in top form when you get into the Leinster series. I still don't get the attitude down here that such and such a team are only from Laois, Offaly or Carlow. If KK, Mullins, Clough Ballacolla, or Cuala were in Wexford they'd be in the mix for Wexford titles every year. They are all big clubs, with multiple adult teams, multiple underage teams, and more top intercounty players than most of our clubs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 07:16:46    2573576

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Replying To camánouttathat:  "I would suggest something like if you win the league you are rewarded with 2 bonus points for championship and runner up is rewarded with one bonus point. Might make the league taken more seriously then.

Also personally I'd go for 16 team championship.Something like 4 groups of 4. 1st place through to quarters, 2v3 in prelims. 4 Bottom teams go into a relegation round robin. Bottom team of relegation round robin gets relegated. 7 rounds and could be played in 8 weeks and every game something to play for.

The last few years, oulart,cloughbawn and now probably Rathnure beating every other team comfortably in intermediate but then at the bottom of senior."
Cloughbawn didn't beat every other team in Intermediate comfortably. They perhaps should've lost to Fethard and St James shouldve won the final in normal time. And Cloughbawn have finished with 4 points in both their last 2 Senior campaigns. Oulart got everyone back who had recently retired to put a massive effort in over the winter before their Intermediate campaign, and Rathnure were performing way below their ability for several years before they got relegated. Relegation might be just what they needed to get everyone focused again.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 07:21:01    2573577

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Replying To OpenStandWall:  "Just back from the Park, that is what you would call a shambles. No word yet on a refixture as the CB wouldn't let a representative from either ourselves or the Rapps in the room."
Some clubs are forced to play extra time, while others are knocked out on penalties.......this is a shambles.

Playing under lights to justify having them.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 08/10/2024 07:26:08    2573579

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Replying To Formertownie:  "You are right they are not a dual club (Oulart ) is that the reason they are where they are at present .
1 game away from intermediate again.
To join rathnure and the alley . Hurling strongholds .
Where dual status might be a contributing factor to hurling past and predmesnt state if it's the main factor explain why those 3 clubs have struggled last 6 or 7 years .
We are hardly the most successful county at hurling either club or county . History and success rate record does not lie . 1 all ireland in senior and minor in 56 years would nt exactly be a huge achievement for a hurling stronghold."
And only one club AI in that time. Although Limerick and Waterford only have 1 each also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 07:50:22    2573581

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Replying To WEX98:  "Some clubs are forced to play extra time, while others are knocked out on penalties.......this is a shambles.

Playing under lights to justify having them."
Is it not extra time then penalties? Also the lights are needed for the hurling QFs now the split season is over, it's October, not August.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 08:30:30    2573584

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I hear fethard have lodged an appeal over Saturdays game if successful will probably be a midweek game next week,as fethard have football semi final this weekend.

Ryanworld (Wexford) - Posts: 11 - 08/10/2024 09:04:53    2573593

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Replying To Formertownie:  "You are right they are not a dual club (Oulart ) is that the reason they are where they are at present .
1 game away from intermediate again.
To join rathnure and the alley . Hurling strongholds .
Where dual status might be a contributing factor to hurling past and predmesnt state if it's the main factor explain why those 3 clubs have struggled last 6 or 7 years .
We are hardly the most successful county at hurling either club or county . History and success rate record does not lie . 1 all ireland in senior and minor in 56 years would nt exactly be a huge achievement for a hurling stronghold."
it's a numbers game in my opinion - All 3 clubs struggled with underage numbers during the 2010 - 2020 period. This has a knock on effect. Rathnure's last county final appearance was 2010 / 2011 when I think Oulart beat them by a point .. Their team was aging at that stage but it was backboned by players that had won 6 in a row U21 titles .. They had little underage success after that .. Falling numbers etc etc .. Oulart are no different .. Huge underage success in the early 2000s .. struggled then in the 2010s onwards .. Their aging team held senior status as long as they could .. They have some very good underage teams now and the key is trying to bring through 2-3 lads every year that can genuinely make their first team stronger. Buffers Alley have struggled also but have produced some very good Minor / U21 teams over last few years.

Kiltormer in Galway were All Ireland club winners in 1992 - relegated to Junior last weekend. Player numbers the main reason.

We are starting to see a downward trend in the domination of St Martins / Glynn / Shels in underage too - so there lull will possibly come also.

Interested to hear other peoples take on this

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 08/10/2024 09:47:51    2573609

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Replying To camánouttathat:  "I would suggest something like if you win the league you are rewarded with 2 bonus points for championship and runner up is rewarded with one bonus point. Might make the league taken more seriously then.

Also personally I'd go for 16 team championship.Something like 4 groups of 4. 1st place through to quarters, 2v3 in prelims. 4 Bottom teams go into a relegation round robin. Bottom team of relegation round robin gets relegated. 7 rounds and could be played in 8 weeks and every game something to play for.

The last few years, oulart,cloughbawn and now probably Rathnure beating every other team comfortably in intermediate but then at the bottom of senior."
I would completely disagree with linking league to championship with points for winning the league. Just make it a bigger deal for the club players playing it each year with a better prize for winning it and perhaps 2 up 2 down promotion relegation from each division each year like the Allianz football league.

And your answer to the senior team getting relegated and beating every team easy each year is to bring 3 of those teams up senior to get 6 or 7 hammerings?
No offense to Bunclody Buffers alley or St James but if they were all senior next year they would only be competitive with each other, St James would probably be better than any of the other current intermediate teams so would stay senior by beating them teams each year but get well bet every year by the current senior teams

Non runner for me

hurlin101 (Wexford) - Posts: 114 - 08/10/2024 10:41:07    2573619

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Replying To Formertownie:  "You are right they are not a dual club (Oulart ) is that the reason they are where they are at present .
1 game away from intermediate again.
To join rathnure and the alley . Hurling strongholds .
Where dual status might be a contributing factor to hurling past and predmesnt state if it's the main factor explain why those 3 clubs have struggled last 6 or 7 years .
We are hardly the most successful county at hurling either club or county . History and success rate record does not lie . 1 all ireland in senior and minor in 56 years would nt exactly be a huge achievement for a hurling stronghold."
Here here Formertownie, somebody who is using a bit of common sense.
Most of the Hurling fraternity are quick to blame the duel concept but as you elude to the stronger clubs are duel and outperforming those 1 code clubs. How many clubs are duel senior? 6 or 7? That's unbelievable from those clubs, and those clubs are all competing at the latter stages of 1 or the other too.
The overall quality in the county is not what it once was in both codes so the sooner the Hurling advisory committee accept this and look at making coaching at club underage level and in the schools better, then the sooner we can finally see the standard of our club championships improve.

The obsession with copying kilkenny and looking at what they do is also baffling. Kilkenny play off football championship in February and March. They are very much a one code county, we are very much a duel county when it comes to club.
If they are going to copy a county instead of coming up with our own way then maybe look at other similar duel counties for the answer, again common sense.

hurlin101 (Wexford) - Posts: 114 - 08/10/2024 10:56:00    2573622

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Replying To Ryanworld:  "I hear fethard have lodged an appeal over Saturdays game if successful will probably be a midweek game next week,as fethard have football semi final this weekend."
Would there have to be a replay? Fethard won the game in extra time?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 10:58:16    2573624

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "it's a numbers game in my opinion - All 3 clubs struggled with underage numbers during the 2010 - 2020 period. This has a knock on effect. Rathnure's last county final appearance was 2010 / 2011 when I think Oulart beat them by a point .. Their team was aging at that stage but it was backboned by players that had won 6 in a row U21 titles .. They had little underage success after that .. Falling numbers etc etc .. Oulart are no different .. Huge underage success in the early 2000s .. struggled then in the 2010s onwards .. Their aging team held senior status as long as they could .. They have some very good underage teams now and the key is trying to bring through 2-3 lads every year that can genuinely make their first team stronger. Buffers Alley have struggled also but have produced some very good Minor / U21 teams over last few years.

Kiltormer in Galway were All Ireland club winners in 1992 - relegated to Junior last weekend. Player numbers the main reason.

We are starting to see a downward trend in the domination of St Martins / Glynn / Shels in underage too - so there lull will possibly come also.

Interested to hear other peoples take on this"
Barntown have huge underage numbers. 44 at u12 last year, 51 this year. Think Shels had 38 and Martins 34, from memory, this year, but I coyld be slightly out. Some of the North Wexford clubs, Castletown, Gorey etc, have big numbers at u12 this year also, as have the Harriers. Not sure about other clubs tbh but most would be in the mid/high teens to mid/high 20s from memory.
Premier minor hurling final-
Oulart v Barntown
U16 Roinn 1 semi finals-
Oulart v Gorey
Cushinstown v Monageer
U14 div 1 hurling final-
Oylegate beat St Annes
U12 div 1 hurling semifinals-
Oulart beat the Harriers and Shels beat the Martins.
At the same time in most grades Shels, Barntown, Martins, Harriers and Gorey, the clubs with the biggest playing numbers, are in the top divisions generally. Clubs like Oylegate and Oulart are punching above their weight with the populations they have in their parishes, which is a great credit to them.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 11:16:50    2573627

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Yes numbers game
Was just making the point no matter how good you were it's no guarantee of success in the future no matter how much you put into one code . There are several factors come into play .
The strong country boys off the farm are more likely to be teachers now than manual workers or farmers .
Very few strong physical manual workers in the trades can t commit fully to the demands of inter County or top club teams as an example employers need productivity and wont put up with absenteeism due to sport injuries etc training schedules etc . Your career choice will have an impact on your sporting career that's just a fact . Maybe
And your day to day working physical demands will determine your general physique and conditioning.
The less strenuous ur day job the harder you will need to work on your conditioning and physique plus fitness . It's just a consequence of modern living.

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 305 - 08/10/2024 11:18:58    2573628

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Replying To hurlin101:  "I would completely disagree with linking league to championship with points for winning the league. Just make it a bigger deal for the club players playing it each year with a better prize for winning it and perhaps 2 up 2 down promotion relegation from each division each year like the Allianz football league.

And your answer to the senior team getting relegated and beating every team easy each year is to bring 3 of those teams up senior to get 6 or 7 hammerings?
No offense to Bunclody Buffers alley or St James but if they were all senior next year they would only be competitive with each other, St James would probably be better than any of the other current intermediate teams so would stay senior by beating them teams each year but get well bet every year by the current senior teams

Non runner for me"
From going to a good few games I wouldn't say there's a huge difference in standard of hurling between Crossabeg, Oulart, Cloughbawn, Rapps this year, and St James, Fethard, Rathnure, and Bunclody. If those 8 teams played eachother in a mini League right now, Id be very surprised if all 4 Senior teams finished in the top 4, and I'd say all 4 Intermediate teams might beat at least 1 each of the 4 Senior teams. Its a long time since a club got promoted from Intermediate and came straight down again.
Maybe the Alley might join that group of 8 in the next few years also. As also might Ferns. Maybe Gusserane also, I know they are in the Intermediate relegation final but they have some good lads coming, and were missing Tommy Ryan and Graeme Cullen all year. And obviously some of the 8 will either move out of the top or bottom of that group also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 11:28:43    2573631

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I know this is club but how did the masters get on last night as far I know they are undefeated

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 08/10/2024 11:29:36    2573632

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Replying To hurlin101:  "Here here Formertownie, somebody who is using a bit of common sense.
Most of the Hurling fraternity are quick to blame the duel concept but as you elude to the stronger clubs are duel and outperforming those 1 code clubs. How many clubs are duel senior? 6 or 7? That's unbelievable from those clubs, and those clubs are all competing at the latter stages of 1 or the other too.
The overall quality in the county is not what it once was in both codes so the sooner the Hurling advisory committee accept this and look at making coaching at club underage level and in the schools better, then the sooner we can finally see the standard of our club championships improve.

The obsession with copying kilkenny and looking at what they do is also baffling. Kilkenny play off football championship in February and March. They are very much a one code county, we are very much a duel county when it comes to club.
If they are going to copy a county instead of coming up with our own way then maybe look at other similar duel counties for the answer, again common sense."
In fairness to our Games Development people there's a big push to try to get club underage coaching better. Numerous courses are available.
Schools are run completely separately, which is something we as a county need to look at.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 08/10/2024 11:30:47    2573633

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Replying To hurlin101:  "Here here Formertownie, somebody who is using a bit of common sense.
Most of the Hurling fraternity are quick to blame the duel concept but as you elude to the stronger clubs are duel and outperforming those 1 code clubs. How many clubs are duel senior? 6 or 7? That's unbelievable from those clubs, and those clubs are all competing at the latter stages of 1 or the other too.
The overall quality in the county is not what it once was in both codes so the sooner the Hurling advisory committee accept this and look at making coaching at club underage level and in the schools better, then the sooner we can finally see the standard of our club championships improve.

The obsession with copying kilkenny and looking at what they do is also baffling. Kilkenny play off football championship in February and March. They are very much a one code county, we are very much a duel county when it comes to club.
If they are going to copy a county instead of coming up with our own way then maybe look at other similar duel counties for the answer, again common sense."
I don't think the quality of hurling in our adult championships is as good as it was - definitely lacks the same intensity .. I don't know the exact reason why - There have been a lot of advancements in training / investment / gyms / recovery but for me the quality hasn't improved.
Now I do think that all our underage resources seem to go into development squads while there possibly is very little coaching been done in secondary schools .. And if we want to copy the Kilkenny model then maybe this is what we should be looking at .. The standard of hurling in their secondary schools is very high .. A lot of our secondary schools are seriously underachieving based on the number of students, representation from Clubs etc .. Gorey / Wexford both jump to mind .. GCC are not near as dominant in hurling or football as they once were either.

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 08/10/2024 11:47:20    2573639

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Replying To Viking66:  "Would there have to be a replay? Fethard won the game in extra time?"
Very good question that they actually did win the game

Ryanworld (Wexford) - Posts: 11 - 08/10/2024 12:37:20    2573648

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Replying To WEX98:  "Some clubs are forced to play extra time, while others are knocked out on penalties.......this is a shambles.

Playing under lights to justify having them."
Should be played in August and September.

They are dragging out the underage competitions too just to eat into soccer and rugby which is going to back fire.

What clubs can train at this time of year......evenings are too dark for hurling

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 08/10/2024 12:55:57    2573651

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