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Wexford Club Hurling Championship.

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Replying To Viking66:  "Good Viking blood in him- isn't he a Quigley?!"
Yeah he is.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 08/10/2024 20:56:37    2573761

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Let's leave soccer aside, then. But the question still remains.

If you want GAA finished before October, that means you want it finished in September.

U14 championships really only get going in May. That means you want only five months of the whole year to cover football and hurling for boys of that age.

U16 & U18 championships only get going after the Junior and Leaving Certs. Let's say middle of June. That means you want the entire U16 & U18 hurling and football championships squashed into only three and a half months of the whole year. Anybody knocked out at semi-final stage would be finished in only three months.

Do you really think that's enough hurling and football action for lads aged between 13 and 18?"
U14 games started 11th April.
U15 Féile started in February
U16 games started 4th February.
U18 games started 11th February.

If you take U14 as an example, there would be 7 hurling and 7 football games before the quarter finals. A similar amount of games in the rising stars and if clubs are doing their job properly they'll have another 5 or 6 challenge games to ensure everyone is getting game time, that's a minimum of 30 games. When you include training, most U14 Teams would have 3 group sessions a week from February to October, that's roughly 80 to 100 group sessions over the season.

Id love to hurl all year round but the weather and the dark evenings don't allow it. Instead of dragging it out let them go play something else and come back rearing to go again.

They'll still be getting plenty of hurling with the schools if they're interested. And most important they're not listening to the same voice all year!!!

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 08/10/2024 21:14:11    2573768

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Replying To WEX98:  "U14 games started 11th April.
U15 Féile started in February
U16 games started 4th February.
U18 games started 11th February.

If you take U14 as an example, there would be 7 hurling and 7 football games before the quarter finals. A similar amount of games in the rising stars and if clubs are doing their job properly they'll have another 5 or 6 challenge games to ensure everyone is getting game time, that's a minimum of 30 games. When you include training, most U14 Teams would have 3 group sessions a week from February to October, that's roughly 80 to 100 group sessions over the season.

Id love to hurl all year round but the weather and the dark evenings don't allow it. Instead of dragging it out let them go play something else and come back rearing to go again.

They'll still be getting plenty of hurling with the schools if they're interested. And most important they're not listening to the same voice all year!!!"
Did you organise u14 rising stars games for yourselves this year? We were thinking about doing that next year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 09/10/2024 04:23:18    2573807

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Replying To WEX98:  "U14 games started 11th April.
U15 Féile started in February
U16 games started 4th February.
U18 games started 11th February.

If you take U14 as an example, there would be 7 hurling and 7 football games before the quarter finals. A similar amount of games in the rising stars and if clubs are doing their job properly they'll have another 5 or 6 challenge games to ensure everyone is getting game time, that's a minimum of 30 games. When you include training, most U14 Teams would have 3 group sessions a week from February to October, that's roughly 80 to 100 group sessions over the season.

Id love to hurl all year round but the weather and the dark evenings don't allow it. Instead of dragging it out let them go play something else and come back rearing to go again.

They'll still be getting plenty of hurling with the schools if they're interested. And most important they're not listening to the same voice all year!!!"
We do indoor in the Joseph's all through winter with a smaller group from October to January.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3223 - 09/10/2024 08:57:18    2573824

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Replying To WEX98:  "U14 games started 11th April.
U15 Féile started in February
U16 games started 4th February.
U18 games started 11th February.

If you take U14 as an example, there would be 7 hurling and 7 football games before the quarter finals. A similar amount of games in the rising stars and if clubs are doing their job properly they'll have another 5 or 6 challenge games to ensure everyone is getting game time, that's a minimum of 30 games. When you include training, most U14 Teams would have 3 group sessions a week from February to October, that's roughly 80 to 100 group sessions over the season.

Id love to hurl all year round but the weather and the dark evenings don't allow it. Instead of dragging it out let them go play something else and come back rearing to go again.

They'll still be getting plenty of hurling with the schools if they're interested. And most important they're not listening to the same voice all year!!!"
U14, which is the age group you concentrate on, is best-served of the three age groups in question here. U16 & U18 are different.

What started in February for those ages were the "Developmental Leagues" - the equivalent of the adult All-County Leagues, where clubs play without their county players. They're beset by all the same issues as the adult leagues, and some of them may never even be finished. For example, my own club won two quarter-finals back in May (one Cup, one Shield), but we're still waiting for semi-final fixtures, and I doubt at this stage if we'll ever get them.

Of the matches we did play, there were long gaps between some of them. For example, U16 Football League - first two group games in the first half of February. Third (and final) group game wasn't played until end of April. And in U16 Hurling League - three group games between end of February and St. Patrick's Day. Quarter-final wasn't played until middle of May.

However, U16 championships didn't start until second half of June. U18 championships didn't start until very end of June. If you really do want to finish them by the end of September, then you really are looking at only three to three and a half months per year of "proper" club action for players at those ages.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 09/10/2024 09:27:11    2573831

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "One-quarter of teams get a trophy and a set of winners medals. Another quarter of teams get a set of runner-up medals. Half of teams get nothing.

Basically, things are set up such that every team makes a semi-final of some sort (either Cup or Shield).

Can't speak for other clubs, but I know that in mine, it's certainly not a case of "pulling to get into a Shield". Of six teams this year (hurling & football at U14, U16 & U18), four of them unfortunately ended up in the Shields, and there was disappointment in all four cases.

And I note that you're another one who wants to squash all underage hurling and football into no more than five months of the year. How on earth are we supposed to develop players for the future if we adopt an attitude of "let's get it out of the way quickly, so that it doesn't interfere with the soccer" ?"
As far as im aware the underage season starts in February (with Minors) and im suggesting that it should be over in September. thats 8 months. My point is that it takes too long to finish out the season - with the current setup from the time that the leagues finish until the season is over takes 8 weeks a couple of years ago my club was 7 weeks waiting for a county final and we then had to play two finals within 4 days of each other under lights in St Patricks park in the last week of october.
Shorten the yearend programme get it done in 4 weeks. After that the people really interested will be playing with their schools. The current system is frustrating as hell and doesnt do anything to improve standards or the retention of players.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 09/10/2024 09:56:36    2573839

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I think any suggestions of shortening underage seasons is madness in all honesty.

What's the issue with hurling and football at this time of fhe year? It's ireland, we are as likely to have a waterlogged pitch in June as we are in March or October with the way the weather is going.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 09/10/2024 10:02:51    2573842

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Was just thinking for every strong hurling county there are at least twice as many football first counties .
Now if we here in wexford feel football should be dowgraded .
Are there at least twice as many counties going to downgrade hurling to the advancement of football .
In this scenario how will hurling ever get a foothold or to a standard where they could at least compete at Joe mc Donagh and gather interest within those counties .

100% as a spectacle there is no comparison at present so why are nt they improving in those counties and is it that they are too far off the pace to put the effort in knowing it's a long term project or do they just not have the interest .
Are we looking at a future where the traditional hurling counties will still be be the strongholds in 50years and hope that the top 10 12 counties keep at that level and not drop off like offaly had done but are now coming back .
Is this because of the dominant code not willing to give ground or willing to share resources out of fear of the other .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 305 - 09/10/2024 10:52:59    2573851

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "As far as im aware the underage season starts in February (with Minors) and im suggesting that it should be over in September. thats 8 months. My point is that it takes too long to finish out the season - with the current setup from the time that the leagues finish until the season is over takes 8 weeks a couple of years ago my club was 7 weeks waiting for a county final and we then had to play two finals within 4 days of each other under lights in St Patricks park in the last week of october.
Shorten the yearend programme get it done in 4 weeks. After that the people really interested will be playing with their schools. The current system is frustrating as hell and doesnt do anything to improve standards or the retention of players."
First thoughts (although I could be wrong) are that the "couple of years ago" probably goes back a bit further than you realise, and refers to when minor was run at U18 rather than U17, and when minor players were also allowed to play adult grades. And yes, it's true that the entire minor championships could be held up for weeks on end at the time, if even just one lad on a minor squad was also playing Junior.

I remember being with a minor squad myself one year where we played our final group game on the August bank holiday weekend, then nothing until a semi-final in middle of September, and then our final on Halloween night.

With minors now not playing in the adult grades, that particular issue isn't an issue any more.

For what it's worth, it's still an issue with camogie and Ladies Football, where minors are allowed to play adult. Have a look at their minor championships fixtures for this year - two or three group games squashed into August when there was a break in their adult championships, and then a gap until playing both semi-finals and finals within a few days of each other around the end of October.

By the way, would love to hear how you're going to get everything complete in four weeks after the group stages. Consider that at the very least, you need quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals in both hurling and football. Also consider how U16 can't double up on the same weekend as either U14 or U18, because of crossover between squads.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 09/10/2024 11:17:00    2573857

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "First thoughts (although I could be wrong) are that the "couple of years ago" probably goes back a bit further than you realise, and refers to when minor was run at U18 rather than U17, and when minor players were also allowed to play adult grades. And yes, it's true that the entire minor championships could be held up for weeks on end at the time, if even just one lad on a minor squad was also playing Junior.

I remember being with a minor squad myself one year where we played our final group game on the August bank holiday weekend, then nothing until a semi-final in middle of September, and then our final on Halloween night.

With minors now not playing in the adult grades, that particular issue isn't an issue any more.

For what it's worth, it's still an issue with camogie and Ladies Football, where minors are allowed to play adult. Have a look at their minor championships fixtures for this year - two or three group games squashed into August when there was a break in their adult championships, and then a gap until playing both semi-finals and finals within a few days of each other around the end of October.

By the way, would love to hear how you're going to get everything complete in four weeks after the group stages. Consider that at the very least, you need quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals in both hurling and football. Also consider how U16 can't double up on the same weekend as either U14 or U18, because of crossover between squads."
If you read my earlier post im suggesting no quarter finals no shields - top 4 in each group play semis then finals. no more consolation games.

bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 45 - 09/10/2024 11:47:34    2573862

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "If you read my earlier post im suggesting no quarter finals no shields - top 4 in each group play semis then finals. no more consolation games."
And if you knew how the U16 and U18 championships actually operate, you'd know there are only groups of four in the first place. So just three group games per team.

If you moved to a system of just the top two in each group going straight to a cup semi-final, then half the teams would get only three championship games. A quarter of them would get four, and the other quarter would get five.

That's in contrast to the current situation, where everybody gets at least five games in both football and hurling, semi-finalists get six games, and finalists get seven.

Would you really be in favour of a system where half of all minor hurling teams in the county only get three championship matches, and half of all minor football teams only get the same?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 09/10/2024 12:20:53    2573868

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no lights, wrong scores and assaults.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 09/10/2024 12:32:25    2573874

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Replying To bystanderbill:  "As far as im aware the underage season starts in February (with Minors) and im suggesting that it should be over in September. thats 8 months. My point is that it takes too long to finish out the season - with the current setup from the time that the leagues finish until the season is over takes 8 weeks a couple of years ago my club was 7 weeks waiting for a county final and we then had to play two finals within 4 days of each other under lights in St Patricks park in the last week of october.
Shorten the yearend programme get it done in 4 weeks. After that the people really interested will be playing with their schools. The current system is frustrating as hell and doesnt do anything to improve standards or the retention of players."
That year the finals got delayed by weather. We filled in that time by training and playing challenge games with our u12s until the finals took place. The lads were delighted, there's very little hurling in our national schools until spring, and even then theres not much, the odd rackard League game.
And from what I've heard if you aren't on the first team at many secondary schools you won't get much quality hurling and football training there either. Tbh looking at the results the last few years you would wonder do the 1st teams at many secondary schools get much quantity or quality of training either....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 09/10/2024 15:25:17    2573907

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Replying To countyman2022:  "no lights, wrong scores and assaults."
You forgot lads getting booked twice and scoring points after;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14123 - 09/10/2024 15:29:27    2573910

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did anyone hear if fethard have had their appeal heard yet? By all accounts, they have a very strong case and deserve a replay at a minimum?

ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 19 - 09/10/2024 15:36:46    2573915

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Replying To Viking66:  "That year the finals got delayed by weather. We filled in that time by training and playing challenge games with our u12s until the finals took place. The lads were delighted, there's very little hurling in our national schools until spring, and even then theres not much, the odd rackard League game.
And from what I've heard if you aren't on the first team at many secondary schools you won't get much quality hurling and football training there either. Tbh looking at the results the last few years you would wonder do the 1st teams at many secondary schools get much quantity or quality of training either...."
Just on the secondary schools thing - I'd estimate that at least half, or maybe more, of the lads on our U16 club squad aren't in the corresponding school squad at all.

The school that most of them attend draws from the areas of at least six clubs, or maybe eight or more. That would be an average on the school squad of let's say four players per club. The "stronger" clubs in the area might have eight or ten, while some of the "weaker" clubs might have only one or two.

The notion that some people have of "we can wrap up the club stuff earlier because lads will be hurling with their school anyway" just doesn't wash with me.

The club is supposed to be the prime unit of the Association, not the schools that the club players go to.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 09/10/2024 15:52:55    2573916

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Replying To Viking66:  "You forgot lads getting booked twice and scoring points after;-)"
maybe throw in matches becoming free taking competitions

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 742 - 09/10/2024 16:06:50    2573922

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Just on the secondary schools thing - I'd estimate that at least half, or maybe more, of the lads on our U16 club squad aren't in the corresponding school squad at all.

The school that most of them attend draws from the areas of at least six clubs, or maybe eight or more. That would be an average on the school squad of let's say four players per club. The "stronger" clubs in the area might have eight or ten, while some of the "weaker" clubs might have only one or two.

The notion that some people have of "we can wrap up the club stuff earlier because lads will be hurling with their school anyway" just doesn't wash with me.

The club is supposed to be the prime unit of the Association, not the schools that the club players go to."
1st year hurling blitz in Ferns COE today, 12 schools and 300 boys involved.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 09/10/2024 16:39:39    2573934

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Replying To WEX98:  "1st year hurling blitz in Ferns COE today, 12 schools and 300 boys involved."
There you go. 25 boys per school. And probably another 25 or more back in the classrooms, who play with their clubs but who are not on the school's panel.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 09/10/2024 17:30:19    2573941

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We played 20 games at U16 this year that where fixed by the County board. We had about 6 or 7 practice matches also.

7 played up with the minors in both hurling and football.

Eirns Own won the U16 Hurling in Kilkenny this year, they played 9 games between league and championship, the final was 28th September.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 474 - 09/10/2024 18:46:27    2573953

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