|
Replying To camánouttathat: "I think that shows how poor football was that both Rathnure and buffers alley won titles during that time. I've heard stories of Rathnure winning league football titles and before the game having to ask the opposition for a football to have a kick around and still Rathnure won.
Like I said the easiest solution is the most unpopular solution. Imagine lee chin chose to play football instead of hurling with the harriers or Matthew o Hanlon chose to play hurling instead of football with the jimmies there would be civil war.
My personal opinion would be to go back to alternative weeks. I hate this mentality of playing each championship off in 6-8 weeks. If we had of beating meath in the tailteann cup we would have had midweek games aswell as weekend games. And then a crazy decision of playing 3 rounds of u20 hurling and then pausing the competition for nearly 2 months then playing the rest of it. Most club teams have been training for 8 -10 months for championship for it all to be over possibly in 3 weeks. Least with alternative weeks a whole championship won't be missed with a hamstring injury like Joe o Connor. Even play 2 hurling then 2 football blocks at least then only missing 2 games in each rather than a whole league championship" Matthew O Hanlon said in a video interview last year how much he and most players were in favour of the split season.
At the time Rathnure won their Senior football title in 1952 we were still seen as primarily a football county and we reached the Leinster football finals in 1948, 1953 and 1956 after winning our last Leinster football title in 1945.
As regards Joe he will be missing as many Martins championship games as he will miss with his injury, regardless of whether we have a split season or alternate weeks. There would still be championship games every weekend up or down and he's a good footballer too. His football and his hurling would surely be better if he gets to concentrate on 1 first then the other.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 13:14:53
2491792
Link
0
|
|
Replying To camánouttathat: "I think that shows how poor football was that both Rathnure and buffers alley won titles during that time. I've heard stories of Rathnure winning league football titles and before the game having to ask the opposition for a football to have a kick around and still Rathnure won.
Like I said the easiest solution is the most unpopular solution. Imagine lee chin chose to play football instead of hurling with the harriers or Matthew o Hanlon chose to play hurling instead of football with the jimmies there would be civil war.
My personal opinion would be to go back to alternative weeks. I hate this mentality of playing each championship off in 6-8 weeks. If we had of beating meath in the tailteann cup we would have had midweek games aswell as weekend games. And then a crazy decision of playing 3 rounds of u20 hurling and then pausing the competition for nearly 2 months then playing the rest of it. Most club teams have been training for 8 -10 months for championship for it all to be over possibly in 3 weeks. Least with alternative weeks a whole championship won't be missed with a hamstring injury like Joe o Connor. Even play 2 hurling then 2 football blocks at least then only missing 2 games in each rather than a whole league championship" In 1989 we kicked ball in div2 of the NFL so we couldn't have been that bad.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 13:18:41
2491795
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "Matthew O Hanlon said in a video interview last year how much he and most players were in favour of the split season.
At the time Rathnure won their Senior football title in 1952 we were still seen as primarily a football county and we reached the Leinster football finals in 1948, 1953 and 1956 after winning our last Leinster football title in 1945.
As regards Joe he will be missing as many Martins championship games as he will miss with his injury, regardless of whether we have a split season or alternate weeks. There would still be championship games every weekend up or down and he's a good footballer too. His football and his hurling would surely be better if he gets to concentrate on 1 first then the other." And Conor Mc Donald said the split season was a joke? What O hanlon said was the most of players hes spoken to were in favour.
Theres been no poll to say most players are in favour of this at all. The fact is the majority in favour of this has dropped significantly in one year as per club voting at County board level, it now stands at almost 50;50.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 03/07/2023 13:36:55
2491808
Link
0
|
|
Replying To hurlorhurley: "Rathnure, Oulart and Crossabeg is like a mini group of three within a group of 6. One of them will sneak into the quarter finals, one will survive and the other will be in a relegation final.
St Martin's losing an important member of their backroom team from last year. has that had a big effect on them?
St Anne's cannot be wrote of in any match in hurling or football, continue to get the best out of their team every year.
Six contending teams, and six mediocre teams in championship? Is that fair?" I don't think Oylegate fall into that mediocre category assuming your 6 is Rapps Shels Ferns Gorey Martins Annes. I think they're definitely a level above the other 5 teams but at the same time aren't really a serious contender. Rathnure Crossabeg Oulart is definitely a group within a group and I think all 3 teams would know that. Harriers and Glynn will be battling it out on the other side too trying to pick up a result to keep themselves ahead of the other
Benchwarmer03 (Wexford) - Posts: 5 - 03/07/2023 13:53:31
2491822
Link
0
|
|
Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Looking across all the grades Martins 2nd string scoring 32 points vs Castletown/ Liam Mellows was a standout, would have had Mellows 1 of the favourites for the grade but obviously they can still recover." Was surprised at that one alright but I do think Liam Mellows will grow into the championship while the Martins May possibly lose one or two of their players to the Senior side. Thought Rosslare had a great comeback against Davidstown too having been 7 down at one stage in the second half to win by 5. Ross also had a good win against Oulart
Benchwarmer03 (Wexford) - Posts: 5 - 03/07/2023 13:57:37
2491832
Link
0
|
|
Replying To camánouttathat: "I think that shows how poor football was that both Rathnure and buffers alley won titles during that time. I've heard stories of Rathnure winning league football titles and before the game having to ask the opposition for a football to have a kick around and still Rathnure won.
Like I said the easiest solution is the most unpopular solution. Imagine lee chin chose to play football instead of hurling with the harriers or Matthew o Hanlon chose to play hurling instead of football with the jimmies there would be civil war.
My personal opinion would be to go back to alternative weeks. I hate this mentality of playing each championship off in 6-8 weeks. If we had of beating meath in the tailteann cup we would have had midweek games aswell as weekend games. And then a crazy decision of playing 3 rounds of u20 hurling and then pausing the competition for nearly 2 months then playing the rest of it. Most club teams have been training for 8 -10 months for championship for it all to be over possibly in 3 weeks. Least with alternative weeks a whole championship won't be missed with a hamstring injury like Joe o Connor. Even play 2 hurling then 2 football blocks at least then only missing 2 games in each rather than a whole league championship" One other thing to possibly discuss which isnt being discussed is the current grading and number of teams per grade.
One of the issues with 12 teams is there is really only 2 viable solutions, either 2 x groups of 6 or 4 x groups of 3. Looking at the constraints we have with the calendar one system has too many games whereas the other has too few.
At the time we switched from 16 teams per grade to 12 the thinking behind that switch was it would improve the quality of club championship, the question is has it?
The current split season doesnt help, how anyone can think having a fella hurling for 5/6 weeks and not picking up a hurl again for 6 months is going to develop players is beyond me but leaving that aside imho our club championships are not of a good standard, football or hurling?
As things stand it takes 8 games to win a championship, with 16 teams that reduces to 6 or maybe 7 if you dont top your group. Its gives us more scope to give players breaks and get our games in within the limited timeframe. It would also increase the jeopardy in the group stages.
Has the experiment of reducing our championship to 12 teams to make them a better standard being successful? IMHO i dont think so.
If the top 4 Intermediate teams in both hurling and football were up senior would they hold their own? Yep i think they would, i dont think they would cop many serious beatings and in one move suddenly we would be exposing at least another 100 players to senior hurling/football, can that be bad thing really? The same would apply down the grades i believe also.
we have become a bit fixated on the split season when in reality i do think we need to have a serious sit down as a county and look at the overall picture. The fact is we dont have enough calendar space to work with 2 groups of 6 and give players a much needed break etc no matter whether its a split season or not so something has to give.
I really believe nothing should be off the table, to improve as a county we need to improve our club game so everything should be up for discussion. There was a proposal that Wexford didnt partake in the club championships giving us more time to complete our own championships giving players breaks etc but that was soundly defeated as a motion so something has to give imho.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 03/07/2023 14:00:12
2491836
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Doylerwex: "It's quite a conundrum to be fair.
Personally I've no interest in football but appreciate a lot of people do.
We're true to the ethos of the gaa but that's the big difference between the munster hurling counties or Kilkenny and the rest of us.
With the exception of Cork but they've the numbers
Galway do an excellent job.
It's only really in this century that tipp, Clare and Limerick are really playing football.
I would say a lad can coach himself in a garden for football.
The skills of hurling require a lot more attention." Ha ha what a statement a great cast with the old rod there lot a bait on that hook .
Problem with hurling in wexford at present young lads don't train themselves enough in the finer skills of hurling in their back gardens .
Some day we ll make it to the top table in hurling if we keep blaming football . Welll at least we are playing a higher level I suppose . Definitely close to being the 10th best hurling team in Ireland at present not bad condmsidering there prob only 12 counties that actually care about it unfortunately.
Get real lad we are not in great shape in either code at present . Answers to all the questions pondered upon why this is the case are very complex.
But basically at present we don't have the players to compete does nt mean we are losers if we enjoy both codes.
If success is measured on titles we are in even more trouble. Get your children playing and improve it but most of all enjoy it .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 707 - 03/07/2023 14:32:49
2491853
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tearintom: "And Conor Mc Donald said the split season was a joke? What O hanlon said was the most of players hes spoken to were in favour.
Theres been no poll to say most players are in favour of this at all. The fact is the majority in favour of this has dropped significantly in one year as per club voting at County board level, it now stands at almost 50;50." You would expect most players who are predominantly hurlers like Conor is to say it was a joke. But then again it was handy for some of our intercounty hurlers like Damien Reck as they were able to get a bit of travelling abroad in while the football championship was on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 14:40:57
2491859
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tearintom: "One other thing to possibly discuss which isnt being discussed is the current grading and number of teams per grade.
One of the issues with 12 teams is there is really only 2 viable solutions, either 2 x groups of 6 or 4 x groups of 3. Looking at the constraints we have with the calendar one system has too many games whereas the other has too few.
At the time we switched from 16 teams per grade to 12 the thinking behind that switch was it would improve the quality of club championship, the question is has it?
The current split season doesnt help, how anyone can think having a fella hurling for 5/6 weeks and not picking up a hurl again for 6 months is going to develop players is beyond me but leaving that aside imho our club championships are not of a good standard, football or hurling?
As things stand it takes 8 games to win a championship, with 16 teams that reduces to 6 or maybe 7 if you dont top your group. Its gives us more scope to give players breaks and get our games in within the limited timeframe. It would also increase the jeopardy in the group stages.
Has the experiment of reducing our championship to 12 teams to make them a better standard being successful? IMHO i dont think so.
If the top 4 Intermediate teams in both hurling and football were up senior would they hold their own? Yep i think they would, i dont think they would cop many serious beatings and in one move suddenly we would be exposing at least another 100 players to senior hurling/football, can that be bad thing really? The same would apply down the grades i believe also.
we have become a bit fixated on the split season when in reality i do think we need to have a serious sit down as a county and look at the overall picture. The fact is we dont have enough calendar space to work with 2 groups of 6 and give players a much needed break etc no matter whether its a split season or not so something has to give.
I really believe nothing should be off the table, to improve as a county we need to improve our club game so everything should be up for discussion. There was a proposal that Wexford didnt partake in the club championships giving us more time to complete our own championships giving players breaks etc but that was soundly defeated as a motion so something has to give imho." I don't agree about increasing it back to 16 teams again. All you'd be doing is making four teams senior for the sake of it in football and hurling.
All three championships senior, intermediate and junior (intermediate A or whatever is called) would suffer by increasing them to 16 teams. I genuinely feel 12 per competition makes them all cut throat from start to finish. If you're good enough to be senior then you'll get up to senior, and so on down the line.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 03/07/2023 14:41:41
2491860
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Benchwarmer03: "I don't think Oylegate fall into that mediocre category assuming your 6 is Rapps Shels Ferns Gorey Martins Annes. I think they're definitely a level above the other 5 teams but at the same time aren't really a serious contender. Rathnure Crossabeg Oulart is definitely a group within a group and I think all 3 teams would know that. Harriers and Glynn will be battling it out on the other side too trying to pick up a result to keep themselves ahead of the other" I'd have Oylegate, Harriers and Barntown slightly ahead of Crossabeg, Oulart and Rathnure tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 14:42:18
2491861
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tearintom: "One other thing to possibly discuss which isnt being discussed is the current grading and number of teams per grade.
One of the issues with 12 teams is there is really only 2 viable solutions, either 2 x groups of 6 or 4 x groups of 3. Looking at the constraints we have with the calendar one system has too many games whereas the other has too few.
At the time we switched from 16 teams per grade to 12 the thinking behind that switch was it would improve the quality of club championship, the question is has it?
The current split season doesnt help, how anyone can think having a fella hurling for 5/6 weeks and not picking up a hurl again for 6 months is going to develop players is beyond me but leaving that aside imho our club championships are not of a good standard, football or hurling?
As things stand it takes 8 games to win a championship, with 16 teams that reduces to 6 or maybe 7 if you dont top your group. Its gives us more scope to give players breaks and get our games in within the limited timeframe. It would also increase the jeopardy in the group stages.
Has the experiment of reducing our championship to 12 teams to make them a better standard being successful? IMHO i dont think so.
If the top 4 Intermediate teams in both hurling and football were up senior would they hold their own? Yep i think they would, i dont think they would cop many serious beatings and in one move suddenly we would be exposing at least another 100 players to senior hurling/football, can that be bad thing really? The same would apply down the grades i believe also.
we have become a bit fixated on the split season when in reality i do think we need to have a serious sit down as a county and look at the overall picture. The fact is we dont have enough calendar space to work with 2 groups of 6 and give players a much needed break etc no matter whether its a split season or not so something has to give.
I really believe nothing should be off the table, to improve as a county we need to improve our club game so everything should be up for discussion. There was a proposal that Wexford didnt partake in the club championships giving us more time to complete our own championships giving players breaks etc but that was soundly defeated as a motion so something has to give imho." Interesting you post this. I spent a whole year on this forum arguing for 16 team grades only a year or 2 ago. I used nearly all the arguments you have there now. I was in the minority. Pikeman recommended I get the club to propose it officially which I did and they did, but it got very little support. That was only last year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 14:47:29
2491864
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Formertownie: "Ha ha what a statement a great cast with the old rod there lot a bait on that hook .
Problem with hurling in wexford at present young lads don't train themselves enough in the finer skills of hurling in their back gardens .
Some day we ll make it to the top table in hurling if we keep blaming football . Welll at least we are playing a higher level I suppose . Definitely close to being the 10th best hurling team in Ireland at present not bad condmsidering there prob only 12 counties that actually care about it unfortunately.
Get real lad we are not in great shape in either code at present . Answers to all the questions pondered upon why this is the case are very complex.
But basically at present we don't have the players to compete does nt mean we are losers if we enjoy both codes.
If success is measured on titles we are in even more trouble. Get your children playing and improve it but most of all enjoy it ." Good post
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 14:49:30
2491865
Link
0
|
|
Replying To hurlorhurley: "I don't agree about increasing it back to 16 teams again. All you'd be doing is making four teams senior for the sake of it in football and hurling.
All three championships senior, intermediate and junior (intermediate A or whatever is called) would suffer by increasing them to 16 teams. I genuinely feel 12 per competition makes them all cut throat from start to finish. If you're good enough to be senior then you'll get up to senior, and so on down the line." The current structure is the very definition of "not cut throat" from start to finish! teams can afford to lose 3 games out of 5 and still make the quarter finals. in certain cases teams made the quarter finals by winning 1 game out of 5!! How is that "cut throat"
How would the championships suffer?
Look i dont expect there to be any chance of increasing grades to 16 but imho nothing should be off the table, perhaps even a further reduction from 12 to 10 or 8 teams maybe?? Who knows??
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 03/07/2023 14:57:09
2491870
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "I'd have Oylegate, Harriers and Barntown slightly ahead of Crossabeg, Oulart and Rathnure tbh." wouldn't agree .. any of those teams you mentioned could beat the other 6 teams .. There is no team in the Senior championship that you could say 100% and confidently say will beat the other .. The standard of the championship is another story though .. I was in Wexford Park for the two games Saturday evening ... There is such a level of inconsistency in refereeing that no one knows what a free is ..
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 367 - 03/07/2023 15:31:06
2491880
Link
0
|
|
Replying To MyOhMi: "wouldn't agree .. any of those teams you mentioned could beat the other 6 teams .. There is no team in the Senior championship that you could say 100% and confidently say will beat the other .. The standard of the championship is another story though .. I was in Wexford Park for the two games Saturday evening ... There is such a level of inconsistency in refereeing that no one knows what a free is .." I agree any of those 6 teams could beat any of the top 6 teams on a given day. Martins were in a relegation final just the year before last. I'm just saying on paper the top 6 are slightly ahead of the next 3, who would probably be slightly ahead of the next 3. That's all on paper though and only for this year as I see it. Next year could be very different with different clubs being affected badly by injuries, transfers, retirements or travelling.
For example do you think Oulart will be as strong this year as last year? Last year some of their great hurlers came back in and made a huge effort. I'm not sure they have made the same commitment this year as last year, and Buggy has transferred.
And if that's the case it could be argued that the top 4 teams in Intermediate, just for talks sake last years semifinalists less Oulart but plus Cloughbawn, although Fethard, Bunclody, St James, Gusserane, and others might be better this year than last years teams, might not be as far away from them this year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 15:50:32
2491889
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Formertownie: "Ha ha what a statement a great cast with the old rod there lot a bait on that hook .
Problem with hurling in wexford at present young lads don't train themselves enough in the finer skills of hurling in their back gardens .
Some day we ll make it to the top table in hurling if we keep blaming football . Welll at least we are playing a higher level I suppose . Definitely close to being the 10th best hurling team in Ireland at present not bad condmsidering there prob only 12 counties that actually care about it unfortunately.
Get real lad we are not in great shape in either code at present . Answers to all the questions pondered upon why this is the case are very complex.
But basically at present we don't have the players to compete does nt mean we are losers if we enjoy both codes.
If success is measured on titles we are in even more trouble. Get your children playing and improve it but most of all enjoy it ." Not intend intended as bait at all.
Just thinking out loud really.
There are more transferable skills in football is my point.
Hurling is very much out on it's own.
If it was my choice there wouldn't be football or anything else for that matter, but thankfully it isn't my choice
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4674 - 03/07/2023 16:10:58
2491898
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tearintom: "The current structure is the very definition of "not cut throat" from start to finish! teams can afford to lose 3 games out of 5 and still make the quarter finals. in certain cases teams made the quarter finals by winning 1 game out of 5!! How is that "cut throat"
How would the championships suffer?
Look i dont expect there to be any chance of increasing grades to 16 but imho nothing should be off the table, perhaps even a further reduction from 12 to 10 or 8 teams maybe?? Who knows??" It would suffer by having teams in it that are not up to it. There is already enough in it that are not good enough.
In my mind the cut throat element is in between those who are fighting on the wrong end of the spectrum. There is two groups within the two groups of six.
16 teams would mean four groups of four with 3 group games and two eliminated. Or possibly two groups of eight with 7 games in each group which would give everyone 7 matches in the group stages.
Personally I think the top teams in intermediate are far better off in a really competitive intermediate championship than making up numbers in senior, and the same with the junior championship.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 03/07/2023 16:20:03
2491904
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Doylerwex: "Not intend intended as bait at all.
Just thinking out loud really.
There are more transferable skills in football is my point.
Hurling is very much out on it's own.
If it was my choice there wouldn't be football or anything else for that matter, but thankfully it isn't my choice" Get down to Coleman Doyles for some knitting needles Doylerwex!!!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 16:25:08
2491907
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tearintom: "One other thing to possibly discuss which isnt being discussed is the current grading and number of teams per grade.
One of the issues with 12 teams is there is really only 2 viable solutions, either 2 x groups of 6 or 4 x groups of 3. Looking at the constraints we have with the calendar one system has too many games whereas the other has too few.
At the time we switched from 16 teams per grade to 12 the thinking behind that switch was it would improve the quality of club championship, the question is has it?
The current split season doesnt help, how anyone can think having a fella hurling for 5/6 weeks and not picking up a hurl again for 6 months is going to develop players is beyond me but leaving that aside imho our club championships are not of a good standard, football or hurling?
As things stand it takes 8 games to win a championship, with 16 teams that reduces to 6 or maybe 7 if you dont top your group. Its gives us more scope to give players breaks and get our games in within the limited timeframe. It would also increase the jeopardy in the group stages.
Has the experiment of reducing our championship to 12 teams to make them a better standard being successful? IMHO i dont think so.
If the top 4 Intermediate teams in both hurling and football were up senior would they hold their own? Yep i think they would, i dont think they would cop many serious beatings and in one move suddenly we would be exposing at least another 100 players to senior hurling/football, can that be bad thing really? The same would apply down the grades i believe also.
we have become a bit fixated on the split season when in reality i do think we need to have a serious sit down as a county and look at the overall picture. The fact is we dont have enough calendar space to work with 2 groups of 6 and give players a much needed break etc no matter whether its a split season or not so something has to give.
I really believe nothing should be off the table, to improve as a county we need to improve our club game so everything should be up for discussion. There was a proposal that Wexford didnt partake in the club championships giving us more time to complete our own championships giving players breaks etc but that was soundly defeated as a motion so something has to give imho." Yeah I'm 50/50 on increasing senior teams to 16 but would be more leaning towards not increasing it to 16 teams just as I feel the intermediate championship is in a good place at the moment with fethard,cloughbawn,oulart,oylgate,crossabeg all teams who would be competitive in senior and any of them could go up or down each year. Take 3 of them out of intermediate and do the others improve? I don't think so.
I would agree our championships are poor standard. We get wake up call when playing outside our county. But even our standard of refereeing is so poor.
A serious talk is going to be needed and some hard decisions to be made whether we want to improve standards which will help our county teams or keep competitive championships of poor quality
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 109 - 03/07/2023 16:58:52
2491924
Link
0
|
|
Replying To camánouttathat: "Yeah I'm 50/50 on increasing senior teams to 16 but would be more leaning towards not increasing it to 16 teams just as I feel the intermediate championship is in a good place at the moment with fethard,cloughbawn,oulart,oylgate,crossabeg all teams who would be competitive in senior and any of them could go up or down each year. Take 3 of them out of intermediate and do the others improve? I don't think so.
I would agree our championships are poor standard. We get wake up call when playing outside our county. But even our standard of refereeing is so poor.
A serious talk is going to be needed and some hard decisions to be made whether we want to improve standards which will help our county teams or keep competitive championships of poor quality" Provincial and AI club championships are largely dominated by a few really good clubs at any one time. The superclubs have the numbers and infrastructure, the likes of Ballyhale have a great tradition and some of the best ex players to mentor their underage teams, and then you get the odd golden generation do well for a decade or so like Birr had. Rathnure would be the closest we got with 2 good teams in the early/mid 70s then again at the same time as the Alleys golden generation in the mid/late 80s, although the Alley won the AI with their good team. Oulart had their golden generation then, but only won one Leinster with it. Maybe being so far of anyone else in Wexford at the time meant they had no local competition to drive them on.
All of which is pretty irrelevant to intercounty success. Galway clubs have won 13 AI titles. Tipp clubs 3, Clare clubs 2 and Limerick and Waterford clubs 1. Our clubs have reached way more finals than Limerick's and Waterfords though. More than Tipp, Clare, and Dublin clubs too. Antrim clubs have won 2 from 10 appearances which is better than us. Basically there is no relationship between club success and intercounty success except in the case of Cork and Kilkenny, the big 2 counties in the AI club era.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 18:01:42
2491946
Link
0
|