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Replying To Viking66: "They Probably would choose hurling. I would too truth be told. And it would stand to our intercounty hurling team. But wouldn't be true to the ethos of the GAA. And the many young lads that enjoy underage football." But bar loughmore in Tipperary, slaughtneil in Derry and likes of kilmacud or ballyboden in Dublin who obviously have way larger playing numbers than any other club in Ireland, there is no other dual club I could name that are either winning their championship year on year or competing for provincial titles or all Ireland's. Theres no coincidence that the only 3 teams from Wexford that have won Leinster titles are "hurling only clubs". And this also holds back football in Wexford aswell. We are the most unique county fact we have so many dual clubs but it is also our detriment. Every session playing hurling is one less session that could be playing football. Only can serve one master
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 109 - 02/07/2023 21:22:20
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Replying To camánouttathat: "But bar loughmore in Tipperary, slaughtneil in Derry and likes of kilmacud or ballyboden in Dublin who obviously have way larger playing numbers than any other club in Ireland, there is no other dual club I could name that are either winning their championship year on year or competing for provincial titles or all Ireland's. Theres no coincidence that the only 3 teams from Wexford that have won Leinster titles are "hurling only clubs". And this also holds back football in Wexford aswell. We are the most unique county fact we have so many dual clubs but it is also our detriment. Every session playing hurling is one less session that could be playing football. Only can serve one master" The point about the 3 clubs is not strictly true. Buffers Alley won the Intermediate Football title the year they won the AI in hurling and kicked Senior football. Rathnure won a Senior Football title.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 02/07/2023 22:39:28
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Looking across all the grades Martins 2nd string scoring 32 points vs Castletown/ Liam Mellows was a standout, would have had Mellows 1 of the favourites for the grade but obviously they can still recover.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 02/07/2023 22:43:36
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Agreed.
I can't understand why lacey never made the grade.
Glynn barntown are funny like that though. They produced a fantastic group that won Premier at 16/minor around 06 I think and looking at the team last night only got 3 seniors off it
For the like of oulart and rathnure they seem to do much better keeping lads together." As far as I know Liam Dunne's man management style soured his appetite for intercounty, picked him out for criticism in a post match review and he felt it was particularly harsh, dropped himself off the panel and never returned.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 02/07/2023 23:35:18
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "Are they all not gone travelling at the minute?" The lads travelling are mostly 25/26 age bracket Rowan White, Matt Doyle, Shane Wilde etc. Think a few of that older crop have had injury problems over the years for example Gary Moore and Craig Doyle.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 02/07/2023 23:37:32
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Replying To camánouttathat: "But bar loughmore in Tipperary, slaughtneil in Derry and likes of kilmacud or ballyboden in Dublin who obviously have way larger playing numbers than any other club in Ireland, there is no other dual club I could name that are either winning their championship year on year or competing for provincial titles or all Ireland's. Theres no coincidence that the only 3 teams from Wexford that have won Leinster titles are "hurling only clubs". And this also holds back football in Wexford aswell. We are the most unique county fact we have so many dual clubs but it is also our detriment. Every session playing hurling is one less session that could be playing football. Only can serve one master" It's quite a conundrum to be fair.
Personally I've no interest in football but appreciate a lot of people do.
We're true to the ethos of the gaa but that's the big difference between the munster hurling counties or Kilkenny and the rest of us.
With the exception of Cork but they've the numbers
Galway do an excellent job.
It's only really in this century that tipp, Clare and Limerick are really playing football.
I would say a lad can coach himself in a garden for football.
The skills of hurling require a lot more attention.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4674 - 03/07/2023 08:24:37
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Replying To Benchwarmer03: "Haven't had a great run of things but think they still have the potential to kick on a bit further this year. Have the forwards to cause any defence trouble but the ball doesn't seem to stick well and there is a lack of work rate up that end to win it back. They also give away way too many frees think the Rapps only scored 1 point from play in the second half. Don't think they're likely to threaten near the business end but with Crossabeg and Oulart in the group I do feel they could kick on for a Quarter Final this year although both those teams will feel the same especially with a point each on the board. Last 5 minutes of the first half was disastrous for them yesterday went from being 5 down with that wind to 11 down killed the game as a contest. They did improve in the second half particularly when AJ and Michael Redmond came on but still well off the pace of the likes of Rapps Shels and Ferns in their group." Ya, it's probably the poorest Rathnure team in living memory but they've been poor a while now. Just don't think the modern game suits them, a lot of their forwards aren't the best workers and a lot the rathnure lads who've been in around the county panel haven't been known for their commitment, and that's not a slight, modern intercounty hurler is an insane commitment and no forces anyone to do it. But last year wasn't their first brush with relegation, they've been just surviving or if they do get out of the group they never a threat, still mad to see them and Oulart as two of more likely to go down clubs. Thought the Oulart Crossabeg game looked poor enough quality wise, Oisin Foley and Shaun Murphy looked well above anything else on the pitch. Think it'll come down to score difference between these two to see who ends up in relegation.
Ferns will be happy to get defense off to a win especially against one of the main challengers, almost lost it but saw it out for a finish. Rapps very handy winners without having to push themselves too much.
Once again the St Martin's enigma rolls on, they were very poor. How they could be down so many big names last year and almost win it out and then once theyve them back again they go back to the terrible play theyve been at the last few years previous. I dont know do their other lads just expect having O'Connors back will make them instantly better or what but its the most confusing situation with them. St Anne's comprehensive enough winners.
Fancied Faythe to win but it was turgid enough stuff and don't think they'll be going far in championship, I had them as maybe surprise packages but maybe not now. It's hard for a team to turn it around in such a short compact season too
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 03/07/2023 09:06:39
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Looking across all the grades Martins 2nd string scoring 32 points vs Castletown/ Liam Mellows was a standout, would have had Mellows 1 of the favourites for the grade but obviously they can still recover." Robbie Brooks told me coming off the pitch in Navan that none of their lads who were on the Senior football squad have any hurling done since last year. They will definitely improve as the season goes on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 09:32:05
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Replying To Doylerwex: "It's quite a conundrum to be fair.
Personally I've no interest in football but appreciate a lot of people do.
We're true to the ethos of the gaa but that's the big difference between the munster hurling counties or Kilkenny and the rest of us.
With the exception of Cork but they've the numbers
Galway do an excellent job.
It's only really in this century that tipp, Clare and Limerick are really playing football.
I would say a lad can coach himself in a garden for football.
The skills of hurling require a lot more attention." Still true that the best underage hurlers are the ones putting in a few hours after school nearly every evening summer and winter. In 2 training sessions and a game every other week with football 6 months of a year there's only so much you can do. The lads have to practice in their own time. And that goes for football too. Kicking a ball straight and low for a pass and soloing are still skills some of the best young lads struggle with at football.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 09:36:11
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "Ya, it's probably the poorest Rathnure team in living memory but they've been poor a while now. Just don't think the modern game suits them, a lot of their forwards aren't the best workers and a lot the rathnure lads who've been in around the county panel haven't been known for their commitment, and that's not a slight, modern intercounty hurler is an insane commitment and no forces anyone to do it. But last year wasn't their first brush with relegation, they've been just surviving or if they do get out of the group they never a threat, still mad to see them and Oulart as two of more likely to go down clubs. Thought the Oulart Crossabeg game looked poor enough quality wise, Oisin Foley and Shaun Murphy looked well above anything else on the pitch. Think it'll come down to score difference between these two to see who ends up in relegation.
Ferns will be happy to get defense off to a win especially against one of the main challengers, almost lost it but saw it out for a finish. Rapps very handy winners without having to push themselves too much.
Once again the St Martin's enigma rolls on, they were very poor. How they could be down so many big names last year and almost win it out and then once theyve them back again they go back to the terrible play theyve been at the last few years previous. I dont know do their other lads just expect having O'Connors back will make them instantly better or what but its the most confusing situation with them. St Anne's comprehensive enough winners.
Fancied Faythe to win but it was turgid enough stuff and don't think they'll be going far in championship, I had them as maybe surprise packages but maybe not now. It's hard for a team to turn it around in such a short compact season too" Rathnure, Oulart and Crossabeg is like a mini group of three within a group of 6. One of them will sneak into the quarter finals, one will survive and the other will be in a relegation final.
St Martin's losing an important member of their backroom team from last year. has that had a big effect on them?
St Anne's cannot be wrote of in any match in hurling or football, continue to get the best out of their team every year.
Six contending teams, and six mediocre teams in championship? Is that fair?
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 03/07/2023 09:40:12
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Replying To Doylerwex: "It's quite a conundrum to be fair.
Personally I've no interest in football but appreciate a lot of people do.
We're true to the ethos of the gaa but that's the big difference between the munster hurling counties or Kilkenny and the rest of us.
With the exception of Cork but they've the numbers
Galway do an excellent job.
It's only really in this century that tipp, Clare and Limerick are really playing football.
I would say a lad can coach himself in a garden for football.
The skills of hurling require a lot more attention." Throw away comment there I feel.
Football has a lot of very unique skills which are very hard to master. Equipment changes in hurling have made a lot of the elements of the game much easier.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 03/07/2023 09:42:46
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Replying To StoreysTash: "You got it Tom, but you can imagine the football guerilla's on the county going mad at those pesky hurling clubs and the big advantage they get because Shaun Murphy gets a chance to get over an injury.
Wexford want better players alright, but it has to suit a code a vast swathe of the county hasn't much interest in. Like it or lump it, its how it is and while I'll wake up tomorrow to a volley of responses, everybody knows its true." Dual clubs have voted for the current system as it gives them a great chance to focus on one sport.
The hurling fraternity were delighted when this came into force two or three years ago, as it was kicking football to the back end of the year and now they are ringing the doomsday bell on it.
If its week on week off and a dual code player has a hamstring injury like Shaun Murphy he could miss 3-4 games for his club regardless of the code.
My own thoughts on it as the system and model has developed over the years is that playing one to a finish has huge benefits but also negatives.
My preference is back to week on week off with a rest week for everyone after group stages and then play off the hurling to a finish and then football to a finish. I would also suggest that any grade where there is no cross over of players or clubs then push on with the football too. EG if Senior hurling semi finals were Rapps, Ferns, St Marting and Gorey and football semi finals were Castletown, Kilanerin, St Annes and St James then fire ahead with four semi-finals the same weekend.
The championship structure has nothing to do with Rathnure or Oulart going backwards either, thats all down to poor numbers in both clubs I would suggest. Rathnure have been struggling for 7-8 years now. Oulart a little less and were very unfortunate to be caught out by the needless double relegation a couple of years ago. For both of them its about trying to stay in the senior championships now until a new crop of talent emerges.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 03/07/2023 09:56:20
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Looking ahead to next week, could they not have scheduled a few games earlier in the day on Saturday? I think the same can be applied for the week after, could they not have had a few Senior games on Sunday at 11AM and 12:30PM?
There'll be two games next week at Bellefield and Wexford Park at 15:45PM, could these not have been scheduled a little bit earlier so that everyone could get to watch the AISF?
And why are we scheduling Senior games against each other? Could we not have them arranged in such a way that someone could attend every single Senior game if they so wanted?
I don't see why a Senior double-header on a Friday evening wouldn't be possible, it has been done before.
And I also don't understand some of the venue choices. Why were Oulart and Crossabeg playing in Tagoat? Would it not have made more sense to switch venues with that and the Glynn-Harriers game? And the same goes for having Martin's-Anne's in Bellefield; could have had that in Wexford Park and Ferns-Shels in Bellefield.
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1530 - 03/07/2023 10:03:45
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Its a difficult one to solve, in every county bar Cork, Galway where football is one part and hurling is another.
In Dublin, there was talk of trying to get players to commit to hurling only, but players felt they didn't want to be told "if you are good enough to play football but have committed to hurling, tough ####" in later years. There was even talk of this in the 90's from Humphrey Kelleher but I can't remember fully. Hurling is massively popular at underage and even club level in Dublin (look at the successes of Crokes and Cuala) but it just doesn't grab the attention at county level.
A bit like in Wexford, there are lots of good hurlers who are also good footballers. BUT - if players don't get enough playing time in a single code, they won't progress and Lee Chin committing to hurling and becoming the player he has become is living proof of that for me.
If you win a county title in Wexford you get 8 weeks of top level hurling. So 2 clubs in Wexford get 8 weeks of top hurling, plus the hurling league which is a half-hearted competition. If you finish 5th, you get five weeks. It is not enough to develop top players, what about the other 46 weeks of the year?
I don't know what the answer is, but having players playing so little hurling and football is to the detriment of both codes and Wexford's success in both codes to me, GAA ethos or not its a fact.
Saying Buffers Alley played football in the 70's and 80's is neither here nor there. Its a different world from back then and I would guess Tony Doran could catch a football too.
I think the question people have to ask is do people want Wexford to be successful or equal time for hurling and football in both clubs and Wexford not to be successful. Something has to give. It just can't be done as Wexford are doing it at the moment.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 03/07/2023 10:19:46
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Looking ahead to next week, could they not have scheduled a few games earlier in the day on Saturday? I think the same can be applied for the week after, could they not have had a few Senior games on Sunday at 11AM and 12:30PM?
There'll be two games next week at Bellefield and Wexford Park at 15:45PM, could these not have been scheduled a little bit earlier so that everyone could get to watch the AISF?
And why are we scheduling Senior games against each other? Could we not have them arranged in such a way that someone could attend every single Senior game if they so wanted?
I don't see why a Senior double-header on a Friday evening wouldn't be possible, it has been done before.
And I also don't understand some of the venue choices. Why were Oulart and Crossabeg playing in Tagoat? Would it not have made more sense to switch venues with that and the Glynn-Harriers game? And the same goes for having Martin's-Anne's in Bellefield; could have had that in Wexford Park and Ferns-Shels in Bellefield." For next weekend I reckon they've learned from the league final's fiasco and are avoiding putting games up against the All Ireland semi finals which are on at 6 on Saturday and 4 on Sunday. Thing there's the yearly race night on this Friday so reckon there's no games on to avoid with that.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 03/07/2023 11:09:28
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "Dual clubs have voted for the current system as it gives them a great chance to focus on one sport.
The hurling fraternity were delighted when this came into force two or three years ago, as it was kicking football to the back end of the year and now they are ringing the doomsday bell on it.
If its week on week off and a dual code player has a hamstring injury like Shaun Murphy he could miss 3-4 games for his club regardless of the code.
My own thoughts on it as the system and model has developed over the years is that playing one to a finish has huge benefits but also negatives.
My preference is back to week on week off with a rest week for everyone after group stages and then play off the hurling to a finish and then football to a finish. I would also suggest that any grade where there is no cross over of players or clubs then push on with the football too. EG if Senior hurling semi finals were Rapps, Ferns, St Marting and Gorey and football semi finals were Castletown, Kilanerin, St Annes and St James then fire ahead with four semi-finals the same weekend.
The championship structure has nothing to do with Rathnure or Oulart going backwards either, thats all down to poor numbers in both clubs I would suggest. Rathnure have been struggling for 7-8 years now. Oulart a little less and were very unfortunate to be caught out by the needless double relegation a couple of years ago. For both of them its about trying to stay in the senior championships now until a new crop of talent emerges." Oulart have a good crop coming and still have good numbers. There's a gap to be bridged though and Buggy is a big loss. Hard to see them contending for a few years tbh. Rathnure are in bigger bother and have been for a while. Have very talented hurlers but they don't seem overly bothered with getting the best out of themselves. Obviously there is more to life than hurling but you can do many of the alternatives when your hurling days are done.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 11:39:47
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Its a difficult one to solve, in every county bar Cork, Galway where football is one part and hurling is another.
In Dublin, there was talk of trying to get players to commit to hurling only, but players felt they didn't want to be told "if you are good enough to play football but have committed to hurling, tough ####" in later years. There was even talk of this in the 90's from Humphrey Kelleher but I can't remember fully. Hurling is massively popular at underage and even club level in Dublin (look at the successes of Crokes and Cuala) but it just doesn't grab the attention at county level.
A bit like in Wexford, there are lots of good hurlers who are also good footballers. BUT - if players don't get enough playing time in a single code, they won't progress and Lee Chin committing to hurling and becoming the player he has become is living proof of that for me.
If you win a county title in Wexford you get 8 weeks of top level hurling. So 2 clubs in Wexford get 8 weeks of top hurling, plus the hurling league which is a half-hearted competition. If you finish 5th, you get five weeks. It is not enough to develop top players, what about the other 46 weeks of the year?
I don't know what the answer is, but having players playing so little hurling and football is to the detriment of both codes and Wexford's success in both codes to me, GAA ethos or not its a fact.
Saying Buffers Alley played football in the 70's and 80's is neither here nor there. Its a different world from back then and I would guess Tony Doran could catch a football too.
I think the question people have to ask is do people want Wexford to be successful or equal time for hurling and football in both clubs and Wexford not to be successful. Something has to give. It just can't be done as Wexford are doing it at the moment.
Jack of all trades, master of none." In Limerick Clare Waterford Cork etc I don't think the top hurling clubs play many more championship hurling games and in some cases they play less.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 12:11:54
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Looking ahead to next week, could they not have scheduled a few games earlier in the day on Saturday? I think the same can be applied for the week after, could they not have had a few Senior games on Sunday at 11AM and 12:30PM?
There'll be two games next week at Bellefield and Wexford Park at 15:45PM, could these not have been scheduled a little bit earlier so that everyone could get to watch the AISF?
And why are we scheduling Senior games against each other? Could we not have them arranged in such a way that someone could attend every single Senior game if they so wanted?
I don't see why a Senior double-header on a Friday evening wouldn't be possible, it has been done before.
And I also don't understand some of the venue choices. Why were Oulart and Crossabeg playing in Tagoat? Would it not have made more sense to switch venues with that and the Glynn-Harriers game? And the same goes for having Martin's-Anne's in Bellefield; could have had that in Wexford Park and Ferns-Shels in Bellefield." If only Wexford Park had state of the art floodlights!
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1570 - 03/07/2023 12:22:42
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Replying To Viking66: "The point about the 3 clubs is not strictly true. Buffers Alley won the Intermediate Football title the year they won the AI in hurling and kicked Senior football. Rathnure won a Senior Football title." I think that shows how poor football was that both Rathnure and buffers alley won titles during that time. I've heard stories of Rathnure winning league football titles and before the game having to ask the opposition for a football to have a kick around and still Rathnure won.
Like I said the easiest solution is the most unpopular solution. Imagine lee chin chose to play football instead of hurling with the harriers or Matthew o Hanlon chose to play hurling instead of football with the jimmies there would be civil war.
My personal opinion would be to go back to alternative weeks. I hate this mentality of playing each championship off in 6-8 weeks. If we had of beating meath in the tailteann cup we would have had midweek games aswell as weekend games. And then a crazy decision of playing 3 rounds of u20 hurling and then pausing the competition for nearly 2 months then playing the rest of it. Most club teams have been training for 8 -10 months for championship for it all to be over possibly in 3 weeks. Least with alternative weeks a whole championship won't be missed with a hamstring injury like Joe o Connor. Even play 2 hurling then 2 football blocks at least then only missing 2 games in each rather than a whole league championship
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 109 - 03/07/2023 12:28:33
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Replying To beano: "If only Wexford Park had state of the art floodlights!" Haha great post Beano!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 03/07/2023 12:57:07
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