|
Replying To countyman2022: "Whole thing is farcical. Clubs training for up to 5 months for a championship that is 5 weeks long. Doesn't sit right with a lot of people." I agree but clubs had a chance to change it last year and still over 50% of votes wanted to keep it as it is, I suspect it might change this year the support for block of 1 code followed by the other seems to be falling, it suited during covid when the window to play 2 championships was small but 8 consecutive weekends of 1 code followed by another is a different story.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 01/08/2023 16:57:42
2498415
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "Should u21 be for players not playing adult hurling only? It might help player retention and keep those slipping away involved. Could be 13 a side to help clubs field.
But if clubs don't have the numbers but in that case is it best just forget about it instead of rushing it in the middle of the adult champions?
Most 19-20 year olds are on junior B teams or better in their clubs, would they not? What percentage of players is affected?" It would basically be an extension of the minor championship then, I'd imagine the amount of 19-21 years olds playing u21 but not adult is very small.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 01/08/2023 16:59:31
2498418
Link
0
|
|
Replying To countyman2022: "Whole thing is farcical. Clubs training for up to 5 months for a championship that is 5 weeks long. Doesn't sit right with a lot of people." Getting more games now than they ever did! Elongated doesn't mean better, quality is usually worse. I do think a week's break post the group stages is called for though.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 603 - 01/08/2023 17:34:45
2498431
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "Should u21 be for players not playing adult hurling only? It might help player retention and keep those slipping away involved. Could be 13 a side to help clubs field.
But if clubs don't have the numbers but in that case is it best just forget about it instead of rushing it in the middle of the adult champions?
Most 19-20 year olds are on junior B teams or better in their clubs, would they not? What percentage of players is affected?" It's a good idea in theory, but in reality, I don't think too many clubs would be able to field an U21 team made up completely of lads who aren't playing at adult grade.
We'd be a "middling big" club, and only four or five of the lads who started in our U21 matches a few weeks ago weren't also regularly starting for one of our adult sides. And even those four or five were getting regular appearances as subs with the adult teams.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 01/08/2023 18:39:07
2498449
Link
0
|
|
Replying To TerribleFootwork: "I agree but clubs had a chance to change it last year and still over 50% of votes wanted to keep it as it is, I suspect it might change this year the support for block of 1 code followed by the other seems to be falling, it suited during covid when the window to play 2 championships was small but 8 consecutive weekends of 1 code followed by another is a different story." Yeah, the split season was actually a good idea and a bit of innovative thinking when first introduced during lockdown back in 2020.
There was no guarantee then as regards how long there'd be a window to actually play games, so rather than starting hurling and football in alternating weeks, they decided to go with hurling first and play it straight through. More chance that way of getting at least one of the two codes completed, instead of both starting to some degree and then both being suspended because of another lockdown.
Things have changed a lot in the meantime though, and I too think there'll be a swing back to alternate weeks or blocks next year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 01/08/2023 18:41:56
2498450
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "In fairness to Zinny, he was talking about lads after U17/U18 who don't want to play adult, or who presumably aren't up to it yet.
And while he has a point, those lads are probably very much in the minority. Most players are well able to step up to the adult grades, particularly now that minor is back to U18.
But overall, I've said it before, and I'll say it again....U19/U20/U21 has always been a problem grade, and always will be:
- Can't play it early in the year as clubs would be without their inter-county U20 players
- Can't play it in May/June due to college exams and Leaving Cert
- Play it midweek during the adult championships in July/August/September, and you get what happened this year, and lots of other years too
- Only other option is to not even start it until late October or November, and then hear complaints about "terrible making those lads wait all year for a match"." Before I start I will say that this is not a problem specific to the GAA and the problem exists across all sports.
The last stats I saw on dropout rates in the GAA was at 50% between 17-21 and 75% between 21-25. All cubs complain that they don't have players for teams but never ask the question as to why that is? how many clubs track the dropout from U17/18s to U20/21 and adult? Everything is geared towards only winning in Underage and Adult, clubs won't play without county players, clubs won't play U21 without senior players, clubs think that every adult player should have the same mentality as a Senior player. You then come to the structures of the championship - to me the current structure is geared towards to the top players and clubs and not the player who wants to play over the whole of the summer, a lad who is in it for the enjoyment of playing the game doesn't want his preferred sport over in 5 weeks - some fun that is! Within the GAA we have the elite county players, then the elite clubs and players and then the rest - clubs seem to be happy that the rest give up playing.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2236 - 01/08/2023 23:12:29
2498498
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Timbertony: "Getting more games now than they ever did! Elongated doesn't mean better, quality is usually worse. I do think a week's break post the group stages is called for though." There's no room for a week break as Leinster club championship starts October 21st.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 02/08/2023 09:50:38
2498519
Link
0
|
|
Replying To zinny: " Replying To Pikeman96: "In fairness to Zinny, he was talking about lads after U17/U18 who don't want to play adult, or who presumably aren't up to it yet.
And while he has a point, those lads are probably very much in the minority. Most players are well able to step up to the adult grades, particularly now that minor is back to U18.
But overall, I've said it before, and I'll say it again....U19/U20/U21 has always been a problem grade, and always will be:
- Can't play it early in the year as clubs would be without their inter-county U20 players
- Can't play it in May/June due to college exams and Leaving Cert
- Play it midweek during the adult championships in July/August/September, and you get what happened this year, and lots of other years too
- Only other option is to not even start it until late October or November, and then hear complaints about "terrible making those lads wait all year for a match"." Before I start I will say that this is not a problem specific to the GAA and the problem exists across all sports. The last stats I saw on dropout rates in the GAA was at 50% between 17-21 and 75% between 21-25. All cubs complain that they don't have players for teams but never ask the question as to why that is? how many clubs track the dropout from U17/18s to U20/21 and adult? Everything is geared towards only winning in Underage and Adult, clubs won't play without county players, clubs won't play U21 without senior players, clubs think that every adult player should have the same mentality as a Senior player. You then come to the structures of the championship - to me the current structure is geared towards to the top players and clubs and not the player who wants to play over the whole of the summer, a lad who is in it for the enjoyment of playing the game doesn't want his preferred sport over in 5 weeks - some fun that is! Within the GAA we have the elite county players, then the elite clubs and players and then the rest - clubs seem to be happy that the rest give up playing."
Both Wexford and Gorey districts started the league stages of their championships around late April/early May, with every club having a fixture roughly every two weeks, unaffected by inter-county fixtures or anything else.
Regular matches at your own level, without any real expectations of bursting yourself in training or giving up the beer for those weeks...not a bad deal really for anyone playing at that level.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 02/08/2023 12:21:16
2498574
Link
0
|
|
The same people that complain about junior b on the Monday would also complain when the first team dosent play before the second team which is I presume why the matches are on bank holiday Monday.
You've hit the nail on the head, it is a great grade, no holding back for county players, regular games, Friday evenings
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 617 - 02/08/2023 12:51:49
2498587
Link
0
|
|
Looking ahead to this weeks fixtures.
St. Martins v Ballymurn
Ballymurn are in bonus territory but I dont think anyone can see past The Martins here, Martins by 8.
Gorey v Rapps
This hopefully will be a brilliant game, two good teams. The Gorey have plenty of firepower while the Rapps are similar. Think this might be a draw.
Oylegate v Ferns
I expect this to be a close affair, Oylegte have improved this year under Dessie Mythen while Ferns having being going about there business nicely. Podge Doran might cause some trouble up front but expect Ferns to be that bit smarter and pick off there points well. Ferns win.
Annes v Shelmaliers
Another good tie, in what should be a close game. Annes have been impressive enough while the Shels have been inconsistent so far to say the least. Think the Annes will win, only just.
Intermediate
St. James v Buffers Alley
The Jimmies will have Matt O'Hanlon back which is a massive boost. Alley have a few injuries and also the player sent off from last week but I think they will have too muck hurling for St. James. Alley by 5.
Taghmon-Camross v Blackwater
Probably the most unpredictable of the games. I read in the paper that Taghmon had only 4 starters from the Tara Rocks defeat. I always believe in momentum and think it is a mistake not to field a strong team to try and win, of course could be wrong. Blackwater have been building nicely last few games, fancy Blackwater by 3.
Tara Rocks v Fethard
Another intriguing tie, Rocks have been impressive so far, while Fethard have improved as the championship has gone one. They had a nice draw against The Alley in their last game. I'm going to go out on a limb here as say a Fethard win even though Tara Rocks have been putting up big scores.
Askamore v Cloughbawn
The only clear intermediate tie which I can see a winner in is this one. Cloughbawn look far too strong for everyone so far in Intermedate while Askamore had to rely on a last game win against a depleted Bunclody team. Can only see a cloughbawn victory, by 8-10 points.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 617 - 02/08/2023 13:06:11
2498594
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To zinny: "[quote=Pikeman96: "In fairness to Zinny, he was talking about lads after U17/U18 who don't want to play adult, or who presumably aren't up to it yet.
And while he has a point, those lads are probably very much in the minority. Most players are well able to step up to the adult grades, particularly now that minor is back to U18.
But overall, I've said it before, and I'll say it again....U19/U20/U21 has always been a problem grade, and always will be:
- Can't play it early in the year as clubs would be without their inter-county U20 players
- Can't play it in May/June due to college exams and Leaving Cert
- Play it midweek during the adult championships in July/August/September, and you get what happened this year, and lots of other years too
- Only other option is to not even start it until late October or November, and then hear complaints about "terrible making those lads wait all year for a match"." Before I start I will say that this is not a problem specific to the GAA and the problem exists across all sports. The last stats I saw on dropout rates in the GAA was at 50% between 17-21 and 75% between 21-25. All cubs complain that they don't have players for teams but never ask the question as to why that is? how many clubs track the dropout from U17/18s to U20/21 and adult? Everything is geared towards only winning in Underage and Adult, clubs won't play without county players, clubs won't play U21 without senior players, clubs think that every adult player should have the same mentality as a Senior player. You then come to the structures of the championship - to me the current structure is geared towards to the top players and clubs and not the player who wants to play over the whole of the summer, a lad who is in it for the enjoyment of playing the game doesn't want his preferred sport over in 5 weeks - some fun that is! Within the GAA we have the elite county players, then the elite clubs and players and then the rest - clubs seem to be happy that the rest give up playing."
Both Wexford and Gorey districts started the league stages of their championships around late April/early May, with every club having a fixture roughly every two weeks, unaffected by inter-county fixtures or anything else.
Regular matches at your own level, without any real expectations of bursting yourself in training or giving up the beer for those weeks...not a bad deal really for anyone playing at that level."]Would you blame them complaining about that? Extremely unfair. The entire weekend but just shunned onto a Bank Holiday Monday at 11.30.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 1093 - 02/08/2023 13:12:01
2498597
Link
0
|
|
Didn't intend for the Junior B matches on Bank Holiday Monday to become a big talking point here, but for what it's worth, majority of all matches in both Junior and Junior A so far have been at times like 11.30 a.m. or 12 noon on Sundays, without any great controversy or complaints.
To my mind, there's not a huge difference between playing at that time on a Sunday, and playing at that time on a Bank Holiday Monday. Others might feel differently.
Anyway, don't know why they're fixed for that time on Monday, but suspect it might be to do with availability and numbers of match officials. Up to now, all Junior and Junior A matches have had a referee only, but no official linesmen. But from quarter-finals onwards they'll have linesmen, so three officials needed for each match instead of just one.
Then again, just four matches being played on Friday evening (the Junior 'A' quarter-finals), so maybe the Junior B ones could have been fixed then as well? I really don't know.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 02/08/2023 14:11:09
2498627
Link
0
|
|
From the above responses, u21 should be abolished.
If its just for a tiny few who don't get game time on adult teams then its a case of the needs of the majority.
If a few are lost, then that is how it is.
Could it not be played in late May- June - early July without county players? A top u21 will be hurling adult, will get lots of hurling.
Is u21 grade really the saviour of dropout though? If a player is not up hurling junior b at 19 years of age he would be best off finding a new hobby?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 02/08/2023 14:17:50
2498629
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "Looking ahead to this weeks fixtures.
St. Martins v Ballymurn
Ballymurn are in bonus territory but I dont think anyone can see past The Martins here, Martins by 8.
Gorey v Rapps
This hopefully will be a brilliant game, two good teams. The Gorey have plenty of firepower while the Rapps are similar. Think this might be a draw.
Oylegate v Ferns
I expect this to be a close affair, Oylegte have improved this year under Dessie Mythen while Ferns having being going about there business nicely. Podge Doran might cause some trouble up front but expect Ferns to be that bit smarter and pick off there points well. Ferns win.
Annes v Shelmaliers
Another good tie, in what should be a close game. Annes have been impressive enough while the Shels have been inconsistent so far to say the least. Think the Annes will win, only just.
Intermediate
St. James v Buffers Alley
The Jimmies will have Matt O'Hanlon back which is a massive boost. Alley have a few injuries and also the player sent off from last week but I think they will have too muck hurling for St. James. Alley by 5.
Taghmon-Camross v Blackwater
Probably the most unpredictable of the games. I read in the paper that Taghmon had only 4 starters from the Tara Rocks defeat. I always believe in momentum and think it is a mistake not to field a strong team to try and win, of course could be wrong. Blackwater have been building nicely last few games, fancy Blackwater by 3.
Tara Rocks v Fethard
Another intriguing tie, Rocks have been impressive so far, while Fethard have improved as the championship has gone one. They had a nice draw against The Alley in their last game. I'm going to go out on a limb here as say a Fethard win even though Tara Rocks have been putting up big scores.
Askamore v Cloughbawn
The only clear intermediate tie which I can see a winner in is this one. Cloughbawn look far too strong for everyone so far in Intermedate while Askamore had to rely on a last game win against a depleted Bunclody team. Can only see a cloughbawn victory, by 8-10 points." Think you are right the 1st Senior and last Intermediate fixtures on your list are the only ones with clear favourites.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 02/08/2023 14:45:29
2498641
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "From the above responses, u21 should be abolished.
If its just for a tiny few who don't get game time on adult teams then its a case of the needs of the majority.
If a few are lost, then that is how it is.
Could it not be played in late May- June - early July without county players? A top u21 will be hurling adult, will get lots of hurling.
Is u21 grade really the saviour of dropout though? If a player is not up hurling junior b at 19 years of age he would be best off finding a new hobby?" Inter-county considerations aren't the reason that U21 isn't played in late May or June. Instead, it's college exams and Leaving Cert. Whatever about players involved in an All-Ireland Final having to work around exams in the build-up to the Final on the June Bank Holiday weekend, would probably be unfair to expect every single club player to do the same for possibly the entire month of June.
There might actually be merit to the nuclear option of dropping the grade at club level altogether, especially when you consider how there are complaints about it no matter how it's run or at what time of year. But clubs would probably be up in arms even more about that!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 02/08/2023 15:17:54
2498664
Link
0
|
|
Replying To alwaysasub: "The same people that complain about junior b on the Monday would also complain when the first team dosent play before the second team which is I presume why the matches are on bank holiday Monday.
You've hit the nail on the head, it is a great grade, no holding back for county players, regular games, Friday evenings" I'm not so sure about that, it seem they have no problem fixing junior a games for this Friday evening where the first team won't be playing before the second.
Not sure why it's ok for junior a games to be played Friday even but not junior b?
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 02/08/2023 15:17:59
2498665
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Inter-county considerations aren't the reason that U21 isn't played in late May or June. Instead, it's college exams and Leaving Cert. Whatever about players involved in an All-Ireland Final having to work around exams in the build-up to the Final on the June Bank Holiday weekend, would probably be unfair to expect every single club player to do the same for possibly the entire month of June.
There might actually be merit to the nuclear option of dropping the grade at club level altogether, especially when you consider how there are complaints about it no matter how it's run or at what time of year. But clubs would probably be up in arms even more about that!" Forgot about the Leaving Cert Pikeman96 and my young lad will be just turned 19 when he does it.
It sounds like a grade to be got rid of. As I say, If you are in that unfortunate age group and cannot make a junior team in a club then the likelihood of much changing between 19 and 21 to make you able to make a junior team is not much.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 02/08/2023 16:03:15
2498680
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To zinny: "[quote=Pikeman96: "In fairness to Zinny, he was talking about lads after U17/U18 who don't want to play adult, or who presumably aren't up to it yet.
And while he has a point, those lads are probably very much in the minority. Most players are well able to step up to the adult grades, particularly now that minor is back to U18.
But overall, I've said it before, and I'll say it again....U19/U20/U21 has always been a problem grade, and always will be:
- Can't play it early in the year as clubs would be without their inter-county U20 players
- Can't play it in May/June due to college exams and Leaving Cert
- Play it midweek during the adult championships in July/August/September, and you get what happened this year, and lots of other years too
- Only other option is to not even start it until late October or November, and then hear complaints about "terrible making those lads wait all year for a match"." Before I start I will say that this is not a problem specific to the GAA and the problem exists across all sports. The last stats I saw on dropout rates in the GAA was at 50% between 17-21 and 75% between 21-25. All cubs complain that they don't have players for teams but never ask the question as to why that is? how many clubs track the dropout from U17/18s to U20/21 and adult? Everything is geared towards only winning in Underage and Adult, clubs won't play without county players, clubs won't play U21 without senior players, clubs think that every adult player should have the same mentality as a Senior player. You then come to the structures of the championship - to me the current structure is geared towards to the top players and clubs and not the player who wants to play over the whole of the summer, a lad who is in it for the enjoyment of playing the game doesn't want his preferred sport over in 5 weeks - some fun that is! Within the GAA we have the elite county players, then the elite clubs and players and then the rest - clubs seem to be happy that the rest give up playing."
Both Wexford and Gorey districts started the league stages of their championships around late April/early May, with every club having a fixture roughly every two weeks, unaffected by inter-county fixtures or anything else.
Regular matches at your own level, without any real expectations of bursting yourself in training or giving up the beer for those weeks...not a bad deal really for anyone playing at that level."]Perhaps the idea should be at this grade to go back to alternate weeks for Hurling and Football, that way they get to play over a longer period for the summer. Thursday and Friday evenings.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2236 - 02/08/2023 16:17:16
2498691
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "Forgot about the Leaving Cert Pikeman96 and my young lad will be just turned 19 when he does it.
It sounds like a grade to be got rid of. As I say, If you are in that unfortunate age group and cannot make a junior team in a club then the likelihood of much changing between 19 and 21 to make you able to make a junior team is not much." Ill be honest in our own club i dont remember a single player who played u21 but wasnt playing for one of the adult teams at the time that kept on playing.
TBH our u21 team this year was mainly made up of minors who are all getting games anyway,
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 02/08/2023 16:34:27
2498703
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "Forgot about the Leaving Cert Pikeman96 and my young lad will be just turned 19 when he does it.
It sounds like a grade to be got rid of. As I say, If you are in that unfortunate age group and cannot make a junior team in a club then the likelihood of much changing between 19 and 21 to make you able to make a junior team is not much." I think its an excellent grade, combining the free flowing hurling of minors with lads up to 21 playing all grades, including intercounty. The games I saw were of a high quality in my opinion as there were fewer men in their mid 20s or 30s who are better at turning these matches into a physical battle. Yes, it will always be a problem grade shoehorned into the calendar, but we would lose good hurling games if we get rid of it.
I know all our lads, (senior, junior, junior b and minor) although out, loved it and remarked that it should be kept.
OfficerDibble (Wexford) - Posts: 11 - 02/08/2023 17:03:48
2498714
Link
0
|