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Replying To WexMurph: "See the first round of the senior club football is away against the Westmeath champions on the 21/22 of October. Would be better off conceding this and allowing teams prepare properly for the club football championship, and also allow a break in the knockout stages of the hurling. Say most players are burnt out" I agree. or else allow the 2022 senior Champs (Castletown) the option to play in it of they are no longer in the 2023 championship.
Now to be fair Clubs were asked to vote on this where the proposal was that we basically run our championships and dont partake in the Leinster Club championship. This was voted down but because of the stupid hurling first split blitz nature of our championship it was always going to be voted down.
Push out the championship, give a break in the hurling and at least 2 weeks between the end of hurling and football.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 25/07/2023 17:45:57
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Replying To Pikeman96: "It was stated all right at the full County Board meeting (i.e. club delegates) to decide championship structures for this year that one option would be to forego participation in the Leinster Club Football Championships, in order to give us more time to run our own club championships.
The vote was 100% against." Didn't know that, people voting on behalf of clubs where they probably did not even bother asking the opinion of players
WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 369 - 25/07/2023 18:51:16
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Replying To Pikeman96: "When clubs were voting after the "Covid championships" on whether or not to go back to two groups of six, they were told it wouldn't be possible to keep All-Ireland Sundays free of club fixtures. They voted for it anyway." That would be a very lazy argument to be honest. Last Sunday was for the most part and even the games that were played had a much wider time gap. The problem it seems this weekend is wanting to play double headers. Do they think they get bigger crowds if its a double header. I very much doubt it. Two of the games are in New Ross - hardly a hotbed of hurling
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2236 - 25/07/2023 20:01:07
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Replying To Pikeman96: "It was stated all right at the full County Board meeting (i.e. club delegates) to decide championship structures for this year that one option would be to forego participation in the Leinster Club Football Championships, in order to give us more time to run our own club championships.
The vote was 100% against." Couple of points on this
- Leinster championships shouldn't start until November. This would give counties an extra 2 weeks
- Not playing in Leinster is actually a good idea. We currently cram in our county championships to be finished by a certain date just to keep 6 unknown teams happy. By entering in the Leinster championships we are prioritizing 6 teams across the top 3 grades in both codes to the detriment of the other 66 teams in those grades.
- even with the current format of 2 groups of 6 etc, and trying to finish in time to enter Leinster, if we went back to alternate weeks there wouldn't be the same rush to finish junior, junior A and junior b and in some cases there could be more gaps built into the knockout stages of the top 3 grades too.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 545 - 26/07/2023 09:12:28
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Replying To zinny: "That would be a very lazy argument to be honest. Last Sunday was for the most part and even the games that were played had a much wider time gap. The problem it seems this weekend is wanting to play double headers. Do they think they get bigger crowds if its a double header. I very much doubt it. Two of the games are in New Ross - hardly a hotbed of hurling" Double headers are more attractive and also require fewer venues, gate people, stewards, linesmen etc
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 545 - 26/07/2023 10:16:15
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The provincial club championships need to be played between the previous year's county champions. It's standard practice in many competitons across many sports to have qualifiers then competition. it would take some of the pressure off the few dual counties that are genuinely trying to give equal time to both codes.
The demands on club players are such that participation across both codes will fall off to some degree, and perhaps significantly, if we go back to a two wweks hurling/two weeks football system.
One thing Wexford has is a percentage of payers playing both codes that is unlikely to be matched anywhere else in the country. If the club really is the core of the GAA, and football and hurling are to be equally cherished, we're closer in Wexford than most counties to where it needs to be.
I know football gets worse weather and shorter evenings, but the games are less affected than hurling would be, and it's not like football is being played from the middle of September until Christmas.
One big advantage of our current format is players are under the care of one management team at a time. The friction when players have knocks, and one manager wants them to rest, the other wants them to play, was an ongoing problem, and would be again if we abandon the split season.
The clubs pushing hardest for a return to a mixed season are those who either barely play football, or mostly prioritise football. Genuinely dual clubs know it's imperfect, but it's better than it used to be.
wendellgee (Wexford) - Posts: 33 - 26/07/2023 10:54:46
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Replying To tearintom: "I agree. or else allow the 2022 senior Champs (Castletown) the option to play in it of they are no longer in the 2023 championship.
Now to be fair Clubs were asked to vote on this where the proposal was that we basically run our championships and dont partake in the Leinster Club championship. This was voted down but because of the stupid hurling first split blitz nature of our championship it was always going to be voted down.
Push out the championship, give a break in the hurling and at least 2 weeks between the end of hurling and football." That would mean that we wouldn't have our championships finished in time for Leinster anyway. The problem in this case isn't whether we have hurling 1st or alternate weeks. There are simply too many games in our championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 11:02:50
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Replying To Viking66: "That would mean that we wouldn't have our championships finished in time for Leinster anyway. The problem in this case isn't whether we have hurling 1st or alternate weeks. There are simply too many games in our championship." The amount of games is fine, every other sport is able to play week on week off. Whats the other solution? Train for 6 months for one game at least. Improvement in playing standards and number of games go hand in hand. Players need competitive games to keep improving. Endless training will bring you so far. Games means that you are constantly reflecting, learning and improving because you have hard tangible results after games. The problem is the scheduling of the competitions. The Leinster club championship has 2 week breaks between games. There is no reason it couldn't be run off week on week in both codes.
FootballRising (Wexford) - Posts: 29 - 26/07/2023 11:35:16
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Replying To Viking66: "That would mean that we wouldn't have our championships finished in time for Leinster anyway. The problem in this case isn't whether we have hurling 1st or alternate weeks. There are simply too many games in our championship." Do you even read posts you reply to??
What i said is to forego clubs taking part in Leinster and you respond by saying that would mean championships wouldnt be finished in time for Leinster Championships!
Yesterday you responded to another post i made where there was no mention of alternate weeks, wasnt even part of the conversation again citing how alternate weeks would make no difference in the case of Dee O Keefe
https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2496813
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 26/07/2023 11:35:38
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Replying To WexMurph: "Didn't know that, people voting on behalf of clubs where they probably did not even bother asking the opinion of players" The "problem" is actually the complete opposite. These votes tend to go exactly along the lines of what the players in the clubs want. For example:
- players (apart from the small number of football-only players) are generally all in favour of the split season with hurling first.
- no player would want to miss out on the chance of playing in Leinster competition with his club if they happen to win a county final, even if it's "only" the Leinster Junior Football competition.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 26/07/2023 11:39:36
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Replying To tearintom: "I agree. or else allow the 2022 senior Champs (Castletown) the option to play in it of they are no longer in the 2023 championship.
Now to be fair Clubs were asked to vote on this where the proposal was that we basically run our championships and dont partake in the Leinster Club championship. This was voted down but because of the stupid hurling first split blitz nature of our championship it was always going to be voted down.
Push out the championship, give a break in the hurling and at least 2 weeks between the end of hurling and football." The provision to allow the previous year's champions (or some other nominated club) to represent a county in the current year's provincial competition was removed a long time ago.
Also, @wendellgee - even if they ran with your suggestion that club champions of one year should take part in the provincial competitions of the following year, when would you actually run these provincial competitions?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 26/07/2023 11:44:22
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Replying To wendellgee: "The provincial club championships need to be played between the previous year's county champions. It's standard practice in many competitons across many sports to have qualifiers then competition. it would take some of the pressure off the few dual counties that are genuinely trying to give equal time to both codes.
The demands on club players are such that participation across both codes will fall off to some degree, and perhaps significantly, if we go back to a two wweks hurling/two weeks football system.
One thing Wexford has is a percentage of payers playing both codes that is unlikely to be matched anywhere else in the country. If the club really is the core of the GAA, and football and hurling are to be equally cherished, we're closer in Wexford than most counties to where it needs to be.
I know football gets worse weather and shorter evenings, but the games are less affected than hurling would be, and it's not like football is being played from the middle of September until Christmas.
One big advantage of our current format is players are under the care of one management team at a time. The friction when players have knocks, and one manager wants them to rest, the other wants them to play, was an ongoing problem, and would be again if we abandon the split season.
The clubs pushing hardest for a return to a mixed season are those who either barely play football, or mostly prioritise football. Genuinely dual clubs know it's imperfect, but it's better than it used to be." I think you are deluding yourself if you think this system has lessened friction between managers of both codes!
Hurling in the county gets in most cases a 4/5/6 week run in to the hurling championship, hardly any clubs doing any football in June of this year, most were finished aroudn mid may, meanwhile theres a 1 week break between the end of hurling and the start of football. Actually with more and more dual clubs pulling out of the football league altogether theres practically no football done at all!
Theres literally handful of clubs that will have anything approaching even a 3 week run in to Football, effectively what we are doing is punishing clubs for being successful in hurling and reducing their chances of success in football. So how that does that promote dual status?
The friction where players has taken a knock and whether they should play hasnt changed one iota, how can it when they are playing week in and week out?? At least if it was alternate blocks etc and a player was more inclined towards one code or the other (which most are) they can make that decision to rest and get right in preference to that one code. And as things stand what we have seen is a lot of players who played dual now just playign the hurling and taking off staright away once thats over for a well deserved holiday, Lee Chin has given up football since this came in, Kevin Foley and others didnt play football last year etc etc
From my experience friction has increased significantly and partcipation in football overall throughout the year has fallen already taking in league and championship.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 26/07/2023 11:59:42
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Oulart or Rathnure?
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 26/07/2023 13:25:16
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Replying To tearintom: "Do you even read posts you reply to??
What i said is to forego clubs taking part in Leinster and you respond by saying that would mean championships wouldnt be finished in time for Leinster Championships!
Yesterday you responded to another post i made where there was no mention of alternate weeks, wasnt even part of the conversation again citing how alternate weeks would make no difference in the case of Dee O Keefe
https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2496813" "Now to be fair Clubs were asked to vote on this where the proposal was that we basically run our championships and dont partake in the Leinster Club championship. This was voted down but because of the stupid hurling first split blitz nature of our championship it was always going to be voted down."
You said it was voted down because of the "stupid hurling first split blitz nature of our championship". Is that not the split season?
You said in the case of Dee that it was unfair on the Anne's lads to have to play 2 games in a week which I took up to mean that you thought that if there were alternative weeks he wouldn't be in that situation.
Sorry I misunderstood your posts.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:49:47
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Replying To zinny: "That would be a very lazy argument to be honest. Last Sunday was for the most part and even the games that were played had a much wider time gap. The problem it seems this weekend is wanting to play double headers. Do they think they get bigger crowds if its a double header. I very much doubt it. Two of the games are in New Ross - hardly a hotbed of hurling" There have been double header all the way through the championship. This weekend is more problematic for fixtures because of the desire to play games in the same group at the same time as then noone knows the result they need in advance.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:51:52
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Replying To zinny: "That would be a very lazy argument to be honest. Last Sunday was for the most part and even the games that were played had a much wider time gap. The problem it seems this weekend is wanting to play double headers. Do they think they get bigger crowds if its a double header. I very much doubt it. Two of the games are in New Ross - hardly a hotbed of hurling" And as regards the last comment our under 12s, from a New Ross District club, lost comprehensively to Shamrocks, an Enniscorthy District club, at football exactly 1 week after winning against them comprehensively at hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:53:47
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Replying To wendellgee: "The provincial club championships need to be played between the previous year's county champions. It's standard practice in many competitons across many sports to have qualifiers then competition. it would take some of the pressure off the few dual counties that are genuinely trying to give equal time to both codes.
The demands on club players are such that participation across both codes will fall off to some degree, and perhaps significantly, if we go back to a two wweks hurling/two weeks football system.
One thing Wexford has is a percentage of payers playing both codes that is unlikely to be matched anywhere else in the country. If the club really is the core of the GAA, and football and hurling are to be equally cherished, we're closer in Wexford than most counties to where it needs to be.
I know football gets worse weather and shorter evenings, but the games are less affected than hurling would be, and it's not like football is being played from the middle of September until Christmas.
One big advantage of our current format is players are under the care of one management team at a time. The friction when players have knocks, and one manager wants them to rest, the other wants them to play, was an ongoing problem, and would be again if we abandon the split season.
The clubs pushing hardest for a return to a mixed season are those who either barely play football, or mostly prioritise football. Genuinely dual clubs know it's imperfect, but it's better than it used to be." You are spot on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:54:59
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Replying To FootballRising: "The amount of games is fine, every other sport is able to play week on week off. Whats the other solution? Train for 6 months for one game at least. Improvement in playing standards and number of games go hand in hand. Players need competitive games to keep improving. Endless training will bring you so far. Games means that you are constantly reflecting, learning and improving because you have hard tangible results after games. The problem is the scheduling of the competitions. The Leinster club championship has 2 week breaks between games. There is no reason it couldn't be run off week on week in both codes." If we play our club championships week on week off they wouldn't be finished before Xmas, never mind the middle of October.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:56:22
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Replying To Pikeman96: "The provision to allow the previous year's champions (or some other nominated club) to represent a county in the current year's provincial competition was removed a long time ago.
Also, @wendellgee - even if they ran with your suggestion that club champions of one year should take part in the provincial competitions of the following year, when would you actually run these provincial competitions?" Jan to March. Would mean some counties would be without a few players for those months but relatively there are not that many clubs involved in the Provincial and AI club championships anyway.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 13:58:27
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Replying To tearintom: "I think you are deluding yourself if you think this system has lessened friction between managers of both codes!
Hurling in the county gets in most cases a 4/5/6 week run in to the hurling championship, hardly any clubs doing any football in June of this year, most were finished aroudn mid may, meanwhile theres a 1 week break between the end of hurling and the start of football. Actually with more and more dual clubs pulling out of the football league altogether theres practically no football done at all!
Theres literally handful of clubs that will have anything approaching even a 3 week run in to Football, effectively what we are doing is punishing clubs for being successful in hurling and reducing their chances of success in football. So how that does that promote dual status?
The friction where players has taken a knock and whether they should play hasnt changed one iota, how can it when they are playing week in and week out?? At least if it was alternate blocks etc and a player was more inclined towards one code or the other (which most are) they can make that decision to rest and get right in preference to that one code. And as things stand what we have seen is a lot of players who played dual now just playign the hurling and taking off staright away once thats over for a well deserved holiday, Lee Chin has given up football since this came in, Kevin Foley and others didnt play football last year etc etc
From my experience friction has increased significantly and partcipation in football overall throughout the year has fallen already taking in league and championship." Lads who are playing Intercounty hurling are giving club football up because of the risk of injury as they get older, not because of the split season. That's why Lee Chin gave up football. Also who are these "more and more dual clubs that are giving up entering a team in the football league"? Bunclody didn't enter a team in the hurling league either.
Most Wexford club players aren't more inclined to one code or another either. Only in certain clubs.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 26/07/2023 14:02:30
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