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I hope this works. Competitive summer games with supporter interest are the only way it does. skipper101 (Wexford) - Posts: 14 - 04/05/2022 09:22:04 2414775 Link 0 |
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disagree. playing the same 7/8 teams i.e. a 3rd tier/junior championship would get boring quick as you need the chance to play better teams now and again. what would you do better??? or just keep it the same as it was???
gaelsboy (Leitrim) - Posts: 830 - 04/05/2022 10:02:15 2414788 Link 0 |
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I'd look at those results and have the opposite view. Are Antrim going to get much out of having more games in the main competition. If we're getting beaten out the gate by Cavan we need to go and play at a level we can compete at. I also think it shows that there will be good teams I. The Tailteann cup. Louth or Cavan are capable of drubbing teams and that standard of team (promoted division 3 and promoted division 4 team) can be a higher level for a weaker division 4 team or division 3 team that's not quite right. A Down or Meath could also find themselves in Tailteann and be a tough standard for other Tailteann teams. In short the 16/16 split seems about right, there will be good teams still in Tailteann, there will be some of those middling teams getting good Sam Maguire group games and preliminary quarterfinals games. There will be a good fight during the league to be in that top half. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 04/05/2022 10:13:59 2414793 Link 0 |
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I think the idea that the Tailteann cup will help the weaker counties bridge the gap is ludricous. The gap between the top 8 counties and the REST is enormous on a sliding scale. This is borne out in the Kildare vs Louth match. Two Division 2 teams next season. These 8 teams are professional playing backed byva number of factors against 24 amateur setups. Amateur being defined in different ways - money, population, tradition, structure, incompetent county boards. All the Tailteann cup will do is relegate weaker teams to play against weaker teams while the big boys play in the super league competition. If you are born in the wrong county, you need to decide do i want to invest a huge amount of time and energy representing my county for very little return or not? If you do, you know what you are signing up to otherwise you invest that time and energy in another sport or pursuit. I can see a scenario in the next 10 to 20 years where players will move between counties based upon the fact that they are capable of playing for a top county and where they were born will never be a top county. This has happened in various scenarios in the last 30 years in both codes. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2273 - 04/05/2022 11:59:18 2414825 Link 3 |
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Good summation.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 04/05/2022 12:45:34 2414832 Link 0 |
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Tailteann Cup will go like its two previous incarnations, one honeymoon year & then doomed for failure. The vanity project of some individuals & a commercial decision by GAA around TV Rights money where the TV companies & GAA wanted a Super 16/Super 8's set up. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 04/05/2022 13:14:11 2414845 Link 0 |
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Exactly this. Anyone who can look any way objectively at this, sees this isn't the proper solution (right now). Or at least not the way it has been set up and pushed so far. I proposed a layout of the League that would at least mirror the tiered Championship, at least exposing other teams to the top 6 or so and in a more fair and open format for teams to move up and down while testing themselves and preventing a closed shop. But some shot it down, including our industrious Kerry poster, who for some reason is going hard on cheerleading this format, but not any other solutions or tweaks. Bit rich for them to tell the rest of us how palatable this should be. Can anyone think why? Hmm.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 04/05/2022 13:21:33 2414846 Link 0 |
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I don't agree with this. As you say there are maybe 8 top teams (I'd contend that is at a real push). That leaves 8 further spots open for the other teams where the best of them get 3 or 4 top tier championship games at a higher level. The system has to be looked at as a whole and could also help the strongest of the also tans first. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 04/05/2022 13:53:45 2414852 Link 1 |
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What you are suggesting with lads moving counties has never happened in Hurling why would Football be any different?
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2232 - 04/05/2022 15:37:08 2414881 Link 0 |
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There are a lot of things i never thought i would see in the GAA so nothing is out of bounds in my opinion. Hurlers have moved from weaker counties to a stronger county, for example jack fagan played for Meath; he now plays for waterford. Also a guy who was a promising hurler left Kildare to play in Tipperary - Conor Kenny. Davy Glennon went from Galway to Westmeath. So it is happening in hurling. It happened in Kildare when Karl Dwyer and Karl Lacey made the switch, never mind the infamous hurling match involving Seanie Johnston.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2273 - 04/05/2022 16:24:04 2414895 Link 0 |
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And the biggest of all Larry Tomkins and Shay Fahy from Kildare to Cork, That's 2 All Irelands each thanks you very much.
PolicemanFox (Monaghan) - Posts: 237 - 04/05/2022 16:54:22 2414901 Link 0 |
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Clare and Leitrim won provincial titles within a few years of an All-Ireland B win. People are underestimating the building of positive momentum. The Meath Ladies won their 2021 senior title a year after intermediate success. This happens at club level too. Westmeath, Antrim and Fermanagh can all do with a good Tailteann Cup after missing out on promotion to Division 2. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 04/05/2022 19:47:31 2414938 Link 0 |
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I'm pretty sure I don't have mental strength any more to push the argument for or on behalf of the weaker counties. I am not going to look for any more negatives in or about the Tailteann cup and dwell on them simply because I know that I am not going to change anything, however the possibility is it may help 3 or 4 top performing counties in div.3 but that's about it. . supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3414 - 04/05/2022 21:02:04 2414947 Link 0 |
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There's another transfer I seem to remember involving your own county and a midfielder from another county.
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1556 - 04/05/2022 21:16:10 2414951 Link 0 |
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The system as it is, keeps the shop effectively closed for the top 5 or so in Division 1. A few move up and down here, but pretty much you have the same 5 or 6 there yearly (with the very odd drop down with immediate return, like Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal did, and now likely Dublin will do). You have a handful in Division 2 who fight to get up, and these mostly get relegated either immediately, or after one season staying up. So you've a situation where you've got an effective closed shop where the others below cannot break into. And the only place you've any real movement is Division 2 and 3. Division 4 is also cut off in an effective closed shop too with the opposite problem. How are they going to ever improve either? The set-up we have does not work. And we are aligning our championship on league positions now, even though the bulk of the teams can't move. If we are to have a tiered Championship linked to league, we need a huge rethink to keep things fresh, and not just closing off things for those at teh Top and bottom, and preventing actual change from these.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 05/05/2022 08:36:35 2414963 Link 0 |
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I discussed this with you before and I don't agree with your premise that division 1 is a closed shop. I'll take a look again at some points that challenge that assertion. I also don't believe that there's very little movement in division 4. I can come back to that one also. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 05/05/2022 09:47:40 2414976 Link 1 |
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I've looked at the data going back to 2008. It is a closed shop. You need to look at the promoted teams and see how often they stay up for more than 1 season. Monaghan are the only team I can see that have bridged across and stayed up repeatedly in the last 7 or 8 seasons (and even at that, their Championship results have suffered due to the effort of clinging on by their fingernails yearly). As I said, we've had a season where likes of Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone and such dropped for a year but came straight back up. If you look at the data of the 15 seasons of the 4 tier League, it is very clear that there is a top 5 or so that is exceptionally hard to break into, with a bunch behind who yoyo up or down but cannot stay up consistently (bar Monaghan).
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 05/05/2022 10:04:27 2414982 Link 0 |
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It is a closed shop, look at Roscommon for example, they are a yo yo club, can't make any headway in div one at all
Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 05/05/2022 10:23:20 2414988 Link 0 |
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Clare and Leitrim at that time in the early 90s had players that were once in a generation or two type players. Leitrim simply hasn't had the calibre of players that we had since then. Coupled with that was that Connacht was pretty weak at the time, Leitrim should have had two or three titles with that team. I also think we narrowly missed out on promotion to div one. I don't think winning the B All Ireland did anything for them as it was another three years before we won the provincial.
Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 05/05/2022 10:27:06 2414990 Link 0 |
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Exactly. We can list teams like Meath, Kildare, Roscommon, Galway, Cavan and so on, who'd be considered good football counties who cannot make the breakthrough there. They've all gone up to Division 1 recently and either been relegated straight away, or just lasted a season. It's absolutely a closed shop
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 05/05/2022 10:31:17 2414991 Link 0 |