(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post
|
Looks like Moran the Leitrim manager isn't too happy with things as they are. And he's right, it doesn't help the way it should. Leitrim are the type of team we should be helping. Constantly in Division 4 is a death spiral for them, and nothing in the current structure helps them get out of that. My suggestions would help far more to bring them up another level and not cut them off adrift at the bottom. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 11:47:57 2415871 Link 0 |
|
I have posted updates as teams have entered the competition. The Tailteann Cup is deserving of respect. Sensible counties will see the benefits of targeting success in the Tailteann Cup.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 09/05/2022 11:57:01 2415877 Link 0 |
|
Suggesting that a County is foolish because they will not take this competition serious is irritating.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1479 - 09/05/2022 12:12:10 2415881 Link 1 |
|
Someone tell Andy that next year's Tailteann is round robin.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 09/05/2022 12:16:46 2415886 Link 0 |
|
It will fail. As I said before, I do not want it to. But it will fail if they do not fix the underlying problems and preventing closing off things and cutting teams adrift. I will bet a lot of money that if they do not change it, we'll be back here in 5 years time wondering where it went wrong. A team adrift in Division 3 or 4 winning the odd TC and getting a hammering next year in qualifiers is not the saving of football in the lower counties. You completely ignore the many issues below, and continually suggest that a trophy and a chance at Sam (which they have a snowballs chance of hell in doing well in) is some saviour for them. It really won't, and it's very disingenuous of you to continually suggest so. What has it done to deserve respect as you continually say? Cavan won't be there much longer. Without being brash, we know we've a better team than our League position suggests, so we'll get up and be beyond this tournament in years to come. We've a strong tradition and system in our county, and the odd blip happens. But I travelled to every League game this year, and saw all the other Div 4 teams, and talked to people when there. If you think this setup is saving them, then you are amazingly naïve. This is wallpapering over cracks. Pretending to be concerned, but doing absolutely nothing but presenting a flawed concept that has many issues the second you look directly at it. I suggest a system, and you shoot it down. You still won't say why exactly you don't want to widen teh divisions? But I know the answer, but you skirt around it. You like the closed nature of the system for the top teams, right? Like mad how you are all for this new system, but are against League tweaks that will actually affect your own county. Change everything, as long as it doesn't affect you, right? Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 12:17:59 2415889 Link 0 |
|
What is the North-South thing he is talking about?
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 09/05/2022 12:23:45 2415893 Link 0 |
|
He may not be happy but I'd say the players are.
Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 09/05/2022 12:25:24 2415897 Link 0 |
|
Moran is jumping the gun. 2022 is an intermediary year. The Sam Maguire 16 and the Tailteann 16 will have groups of 4 from 2023 onwards. Ask and you shall receive! ;-)
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 09/05/2022 12:35:19 2415901 Link 1 |
|
But that's what what he actually said though is it? Again what do you suggest? Put Leitrim in Div 1? oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 09/05/2022 12:35:30 2415902 Link 0 |
|
No, as I've consistently said. A 16 team Division 1 and 16 team Division 2, both split into A and B. Grading of teams as based on prior years results. It exposes current Division 2 level teams to Division 1 without instant relegation (which is essentially what happens tight now), and then mixes Division 4 and Division 3 teams in a new Division 2. Likes of Leitrim get exposed to a level above them, and this would help them on far more. Any team do badly in the new Division 1, and anyone doing well in teh new Division 2 would swap places for the coming Championship and for next years League. All teams have the opportunity to move up or down, it mirrors the Championship more closely, and doesn't allow wide gaps to open up between the current 4 Divisions. Look at my suggestion at how to redraw the Leagues towards the bottom of this page: link It looks very equitable and just makes sense to mirror it, far more so than the current system. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 12:45:47 2415908 Link 0 |
|
Since 2002 I started to put it out there that there was something fundamentally wrong with the inter county senior football structure, so much so that it was getting worse year after year that was making the strong counties stronger and the weak counties weaker, the back door system was brought in to give the weak counties an extra game, at the time they thought that would suffice, that in itself was also giving the strong counties an extra game and time to regroup if necessary, like Galway for example who were the first county to win the all-Ireland senior football championship through the back door. So for a full 20 years nothing, absolutely nothing positive has been done to improve the bad fortunes of the weaker counties, the standard of football in the weaker counties was a major concern but went unnoticed, the preparation of players was substandard, laid back county boards meant laid back counties and so on. Without the success of Dublin's senior footballers winning 6 in a row it's my opinion we would not now be talking about the Tailteann Cup, the Tailteann cup imo is a quick fix, regulars from the top table and players from the strong counties were rich in the mix putting it together, the media and sponsors were kept informed too no doubt. Some stuff I posted here myself down through the years on the HS home page to maximize the plight of the weaker counties went either unnoticed or ignored, I recall when someone suggested I was possible troll, now I see snippets of my stuff reappearing. The HS home page was a closed shop to the also rans, now we see the might of Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, etc rowing in behind the successful launch of the Tailteann Cup, the thing is, where were all voices from the big counties over the past 20 odd years when I on my own here was looking for support for the also rans, I was sure I would get a decent response when I launched a new post called "Level the playing field" not so I'm afraid. Div. 3 and Div. 4 counties should have been the one's called on to put their type of rescue package together in the interest of the weakest of the weak, after all it's those we are trying to rescue and save from extinction, not the elite, super 8's or top div. counties. I got the urge to post something like this after reading a couple of Loughduff Lad (Cavan) posts, he makes sense. IMO, no new competition was necessary simply restructure and incorporate div. 3 and div. 4 of the nfl to support an all-inclusive competition as required, if running adjustments needed then so be it. Cavan will probably be out of it by next year anyway. Think of Carlow, we are in it for life !! carlovia (None) - Posts: 1439 - 09/05/2022 10:14:17 2415811 carlovia, if you think we are in it for life, that is not a vote of confidence in the Tailteann Cup competition, is it.??. supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3414 - 09/05/2022 12:48:15 2415914 Link 1 |
|
I'll paste the comment I made in the other thread below. How on earth could this be a bad idea? Unless those are happy with closed shops? Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 12:48:19 2415915 Link 0 |
|
Round 1 and the Quarter Finals shall be organised on a geographical basis with legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 09/05/2022 12:52:57 2415920 Link 0 |
|
Lad, you've hit the nail on the head but the GAA don't want to address the underlying issues and the strong counties don't care. The GAA need to level the playing field by assisting the weaker counties bridge the gap. This doesn't automatically translate to money as is so often mentioned. My own county has won every version of these competitions prior to the Tailteann cup but aside from two seasons in Division 3 we are marooned in Division 4. I don't believe for one minute that if we won The Tailteann cup this year that it would help us to compete against and beat Kildare, Dublin or Meath in the near future. This at a time when Leinster has never been weaker. This secondary competition is just to get weaker counties out of the main competition so that the stronger counties can compete against each other. It will be like the hurling in a few years time. Address the underlying issues where possible so that more counties can compete at a decent level.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2273 - 09/05/2022 13:04:15 2415926 Link 0 |
|
What on earth would that achieve?
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 13:17:48 2415932 Link 0 |
|
For the winner though and it's mighty for them. Hopefully they'll improve tgeir standard consistently. And I know rightly that some counties rarely progress no matter what the system is. They need to be progressing consistently, working hard on underage structures to develop the senior team. If not Tailteann then some other type of league or cup to give them games afainst teams of a higher standard. Even some sort of National trophy with so-called weaker counties, some colleges, squad players from stronger counties. It's too much to expect for definitely, sure I'm a dreamer anyway. I don't even know if weaker counties want some games against a higher standard to learn from. But if Fermanagh, Wexford and Tipperary can reach the semi finals, then drop away cos they can't maintain their levels, it's worth looking at. Cynically I think it's about politics and money and not much appetite to improve the intercounty levels of foitball in some parts of Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8760 - 09/05/2022 13:25:44 2415933 Link 0 |
|
What is the difference between that and just letting counties climb thru the divisions via promotion to reach higher divisions, as happens today? Longford went from Division 4 to Division 2 between 2011 and 2013. We were in Division 1A back in 2004 (like a guest wandering into the wrong house, but we were there nonetheless). We are not quite a bottom division side now, nor are we a top two divisions side either. I don't get this fascination in splitting the divisions into these A and B delineations. If teams want to progress to higher divisions there is an established method for doing so - get promotion. You will argue that the top divisions are a closed shop, but teams can still get there by winning promotion out of their current division. The fact that they don't or can't do so isn't always a structural problem nor does it make the divisions a closed shop (a closed shop is one that doesn't allow you in - that is not the case here). This topic is like Mullahoran mass during lockdown - everyone is hearing about it but it still doesn't make it sensible. LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 09/05/2022 13:34:27 2415936 Link 0 |
|
The counties that don't win it all start the season with a shot at qualifying. I don't love the qualifying criteria, entry for the division 3 champion isn't guaranteed for instance, but every team can qualify through the provincial championships. It means it's not the case that only one goes up from Tailteann each year, 1 is guaranteed but it could be significantly more changing places. It'll sometimes be the case that a division 2 team will be in Tailteann not win but be quite likely to not be in it the following season if they have a good league campaign. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 09/05/2022 14:01:55 2415948 Link 0 |
|
Because it doesn't address the real issues. As I've said what some want, but won't admit it is, is actually quite simple. Instead of trying to get up to the level of Div 1/2 they want it to be brought down to them. In the last decade Longford, Tipp, Sligo, Clare and Antrim went from Div 4 to Div 2 in a short space of time. Roscommon were the same and have gone between Div1 and Div2. Clare are now well established in Div 2 and are because they've worked for it and didn't have it just handed to them the way some people suggest. I don't have the details to had but some of the teams who into the "weaker counties" are the likes of Carlow, Waterford, Leitrim etc How many of these counties have school teams playing at some level? Someone from Wicklow in another post said there's no school from Wicklow playing Leinster colleges. How do teams think they're going to improve when they don't have a stature in place at a basic level? Putting them into a division with the top teams won't, in the long run at least, help them. oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 09/05/2022 14:30:21 2415963 Link 0 |
|
Established method how? The Leagues have always been fluid, and have changed as needed with the times. The current iteration has been for 2008, and nothing needs to be forever. Indeed some of the most open Championships in recent memory have been the championships pre-2008 when we had 10 different winners in 18 seasons, we've had 5 in 15 since. Look, by any measure there is no doubt that the system is closing off at the top (as I referenced a few pages back). At the end of the day, the league (while good and competitive) is our secondary competition. But some act as if it's sacrosanct. If needs must, to increase competition, then we absolutely should use it to adjust, expose more teams to different levels, and make it feed into our Championships to make them more competitive. Like, why the resistance to changing the Leagues, but happy for the Championship to change? We can do both. My suggestion would help the like of your county if you got promoted up. You'd have a chance to pit yourself against the best teams and seeing where to improve, while also playing ones at your level so you've a chance to stay up. We need to use the League correctly, not just as the top shop for those at the very top, where they get all the exposure and media. It's really a head scratcher to me why some are happy to adjust Championship, but resist all talk of changing the League. try it, help bring things on. What's the worst that can happen? Surely it'll be better than the system we can see, with the gap clearly widening. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 09/05/2022 14:45:42 2415979 Link 0 |