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National Forum

Tailteann Cup 2022

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

Replying To essmac:  "In many counties, you have divisional club championships. Clubs scrap for the e.g. junior (division 3) or intermediate (division 2) championship, and are delighted to win it. They know its guaranteed promotion to the next division up, in the league, also.

I've never heard anyone in Tyrone calling for an open-draw championship, one that might e.g. pitch a Div 3 club against a Div 1 heavyweight. Because it'd be carnage, and no use to anybody.

So why is all the angst for with the Tailteann? Do Div 4 teams really love "participating" in the race for Sam, in a competition they know they're sure to get hosed in? Would they not rather win something?

I had to laugh at one of the Down players saying recently he had no interest in the Tailteann; he felt it was beneath him.

Well, why not prove it lads, by going out and winning the Tailteann by a bagful? Because the shift in mentality required to win ANY competition is always useful.

So my q remains - for teams that currently have no realistic chance of competing for Sam, if the Tailteann is so terrible, what is your alternative? No alternative at all, and getting bate out the gate every year?

Seems like a massive inconsistency between the generally favourable attitude to tiered competitions inside counties and the roars of disapproval at any suggestion that something similar might be tried at inter-county level."
It seems like the vast majority of people from div one counties, be it pundits on the media are all for a tiered system and indeed posters here too. Why don't the media interview players from each of the div 3 and 4 counties and ask them what they think of it.

Leitrim_12 (USA) - Posts: 207 - 07/05/2022 18:59:58    2415455

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "It seems like the vast majority of people from div one counties, be it pundits on the media are all for a tiered system and indeed posters here too. Why don't the media interview players from each of the div 3 and 4 counties and ask them what they think of it."
Exactly. All we hear from is the ones who are smugly at the top. And all their solutions never affect their ability to keep things amongst themselves

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 07/05/2022 19:07:47    2415456

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Replying To kentuckytucky:  "The open draw is about fairness. Do league two teams complain if they get a huge defeat in the FA Cup to a premier league team? Of course not. Because they've been beaten fair and square by a better team in a luck of the draw scenario. A div four team might get lucky and get through two rounds against similar opposition into a quarter final in an open draw competition, or further even. Wouldn't that be of huge benefit and boost to them?

They'll have to change the name of the All Ireland to the parts of Ireland considered elite cup.

Hurling is a different matter entirely, the GAA has failed in its promotion of the national sport down through decades and decades, and there doesn't seem to be a will to improve its outlook for a few generations."
Again who's it fair for?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 07/05/2022 19:48:41    2415459

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Exactly. All we hear from is the ones who are smugly at the top. And all their solutions never affect their ability to keep things amongst themselves"
70% of squads were in favour of the agreed format.
The GPA said that the reward for the Tailteann Cup winners - automatic entry into the following years Sam Maguire series - will strongly further incentivise the competition.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 07/05/2022 20:05:10    2415462

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Exactly. All we hear from is the ones who are smugly at the top. And all their solutions never affect their ability to keep things amongst themselves"
Yet anyone who's against it never have a solution outside the "open draw" that's supposed to be "fairer" but they won't ever say who it's fairer for.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 07/05/2022 20:41:12    2415471

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Replying To legendzxix:  "70% of squads were in favour of the agreed format.
The GPA said that the reward for the Tailteann Cup winners - automatic entry into the following years Sam Maguire series - will strongly further incentivise the competition."
When were 70% of squads in favour of the agreed format?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8760 - 07/05/2022 20:57:52    2415473

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Replying To legendzxix:  "70% of squads were in favour of the agreed format.
The GPA said that the reward for the Tailteann Cup winners - automatic entry into the following years Sam Maguire series - will strongly further incentivise the competition."
They also had higher support for other proposals that the GAA wouldn't bring through, or support at Congress. Anyway, I'm all for the changes, it is better than before on ways, all I'm saying is things need tweaking. And they'd be easy tweaks. Kinda mad to me how supportive you are of the big changes we're already making, but how against small changes to that system to make it more equitable and fairer, and to narrow rather than widen the gap. Why's that? Why are you so for it in its current state, but not any slight tweaks on any form? I know the answer, but I'd like to hear you say it...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 07/05/2022 21:41:28    2415481

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Replying To oneoff:  "Yet anyone who's against it never have a solution outside the "open draw" that's supposed to be "fairer" but they won't ever say who it's fairer for."
I don't think we're actually far away from where we need to be. The actual layout of the championship I'm happy with, it's how the League feeds into it, and the reward for winning Tailteann, or at least doing well in it. The layout is perfectly fine, but it won't work of the gap widens and widens with the League and how teams get into each Championship. Then the championship becomes a procession for certain teams. We need to expose teams in the League to levels above, to bring them on, rather than separating them out and cutting them off. When you have that, you can then have a fairer system.

And no one will ever have the perfect system, but when there are obvious problems, then this needs to be highlighted and changed.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 07/05/2022 21:45:37    2415482

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "They also had higher support for other proposals that the GAA wouldn't bring through, or support at Congress. Anyway, I'm all for the changes, it is better than before on ways, all I'm saying is things need tweaking. And they'd be easy tweaks. Kinda mad to me how supportive you are of the big changes we're already making, but how against small changes to that system to make it more equitable and fairer, and to narrow rather than widen the gap. Why's that? Why are you so for it in its current state, but not any slight tweaks on any form? I know the answer, but I'd like to hear you say it..."
The current league ranks counties from 1 to 32. With the best intentions in the world, 1A and 1B could be imbalanced.
Success in the league is now offering championship rewards. Clare have established themselves in Division 2. Monaghan have established themselves in Division 1. These rewards are available to all. The league really is an equal opportunities provider.
Tipperary and Cavan will be in Division 3 next year. The challenge now is to get to Division 2. A very fair challenge. Tipperary can establish themselves in Division 2. Cavan can push for Division 1 promotion. Competitive football. Fair football.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 08/05/2022 12:38:35    2415529

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "When were 70% of squads in favour of the agreed format?"
Here:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40788669.html
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Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4002 - 08/05/2022 12:50:17    2415532

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I don't think we're actually far away from where we need to be. The actual layout of the championship I'm happy with, it's how the League feeds into it, and the reward for winning Tailteann, or at least doing well in it. The layout is perfectly fine, but it won't work of the gap widens and widens with the League and how teams get into each Championship. Then the championship becomes a procession for certain teams. We need to expose teams in the League to levels above, to bring them on, rather than separating them out and cutting them off. When you have that, you can then have a fairer system.

And no one will ever have the perfect system, but when there are obvious problems, then this needs to be highlighted and changed."
So what do you suggest everyone play in the one division?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 08/05/2022 13:08:08    2415535

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "I think it should have been named the All Ireland Intermediate championship. Played before the Senior final ."
gaa wont do that for one very simple reason, there would be less senior final tickets to be given out to big business sponsors

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 3124 - 08/05/2022 13:45:05    2415541

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "gaa wont do that for one very simple reason, there would be less senior final tickets to be given out to big business sponsors"
Wouldn't be much fun getting to the Final and only getting around 1500 tickets.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 08/05/2022 15:03:20    2415566

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Replying To oneoff:  "So what do you suggest everyone play in the one division?"
I've said many times, and if you'd actually read my posts above. 2 divisions of 16, split into A and B. That way, each season every county has an opportunity to move up or down, and get into either Championship, as their form dictates. The leagues mirror the Championship that way and is more equitable. Stops a closed shop at the top, and stops those at the bottom being cut adrift by exposing both to other teams around them. Just think this makes sense

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 08/05/2022 15:37:33    2415582

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Confirmed teams:
1. Fermanagh (3.5)
2. London (4.5)
3. New York
4. Antrim (3.4)
5. Carlow (4.7)
6. Offaly (2.7)
7. Laois (3.7)
8. Wexford (4.6)
9. Longford (3.6)
10. Waterford (4.8)
11. Sligo (4.3)
12. Down (2.8)
13. Wicklow (3.8)
14. Leitrim (4.4)
15. Cavan (4.1)

Counties still in their provincial championships:
3.3 Westmeath v Kildare in a Leinster semi-final.
4.2 Tipperary v Limerick in a Munster semi-final.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 08/05/2022 17:36:46    2415628

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Cavan should win it if they take it serious.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 4071 - 08/05/2022 17:50:37    2415633

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The current league ranks counties from 1 to 32. With the best intentions in the world, 1A and 1B could be imbalanced.
Success in the league is now offering championship rewards. Clare have established themselves in Division 2. Monaghan have established themselves in Division 1. These rewards are available to all. The league really is an equal opportunities provider.
Tipperary and Cavan will be in Division 3 next year. The challenge now is to get to Division 2. A very fair challenge. Tipperary can establish themselves in Division 2. Cavan can push for Division 1 promotion. Competitive football. Fair football."
1A/1B made for a better championship. The only counties which benefit from the current 4 divisions are those at the top of the pile including your own county.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 08/05/2022 18:19:58    2415648

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "gaa wont do that for one very simple reason, there would be less senior final tickets to be given out to big business sponsors"
The big business sponsors get premium tickets, and already own the corporate boxes. They aren't taking from the public allocation.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1759 - 08/05/2022 18:26:39    2415652

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Cavan should win it if they take it serious."
Yes, you'd have to fancy them for it.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 08/05/2022 18:29:57    2415654

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Replying To Stmunnsriver:  "gaa wont do that for one very simple reason, there would be less senior final tickets to be given out to big business sponsors"
Wrong. Those tickets have already been bought and paid for.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6213 - 08/05/2022 18:48:59    2415660

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