Tailteann Cup 2022

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Replying To Whammo86: " Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Well boys, unfortunately I think our dear Tailteann Cup is dead on arrival. Now that more details are out, there's not a lot of happy people out there, including a lot involved with sides in it this year. See link. New York get a bye through 2 rounds, straight to the quarters. The preliminary round and Round 1 will be divided on a geographical basis (which worked really well in leagues last year. Not). Bit mad when you consider 4 of the top 5 in the bookies would be in the North. Way to lopside the draw lads, the North teams will likely knock each other out, and leave an odd situation where some better teams will be out before the quarters. We want to play different teams too, not the same we meet in Ulster every year, and I'd imagine some in the South are the same too. Jeez but they've made a right mess out of this. Like I've consistently said, I want this to work, but with some tweaks. But they've killed this on arrival. You're all acting like this is the saviour of football, but they couldn't even organise a 16 team knockout tournament properly? And you think the GAA have the best interests of the weaker counties at heart? Give over. This is a pat on the head and a shoving out of the way into a dark corner. Someone said it well elsewhere: "A common theme is that the less likely your county is to be involved in the Tailteann, the more you are in favour of it. And vice versa". This is literally what's happening here too." This year's edition shouldn't have gone ahead. It should never have been on the cards even. Blame Horan for wanting a legacy from his presidency. Next year's edition is the future Tailteann cup proper." Think they wanted a winner this year, so that can feed into the Qualifiers next year, and let them do the different format from next year, so i do understand where they're coming from. But they've messed it 1st year, and that can be terminal once a reputation is got for a competition. It'll be very hard to shake that off now. Oh and I looked again, it's now 7 of the top 9 with the bookies will likely be in the 8 team North group. This is an utter shambles, and to have any chance of a decent competition this year, they need to remove that pronto. Geographic split makes absolutely no sense Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 10/05/2022 11:21:31 2416181 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "It is. I've highlighted the data above if you want to go back and read it. The Top 6 essentially have a cabal going where the ladder is pulled up behind them. Over the last 8 seasons, only 3 times has a promoted side stayed up. The Top 6 are a constant there and practically no one can break in for a sustained time. Other posters have recognised this when i pointed it out. It is by its very definition, a closed shop. Don't be so blind" Again what's stopping any county from being promoted to Div1? You're trying to say there's something stopping them. In other sports, particularly soccer, teams who get promoted often go back down after a season yet no one ever says those leagues need to be changed. Just admit what you want is for teams to be brought up to a higher level just for the sake of it. oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 10/05/2022 11:37:07 2416187 Link
If it is true that the Tailteann Cup's early rounds are spilt into North and South. This looks to be the way the teams will be split: North - 1. Antrim 2. Cavan 3. Down 4. Sligo 5. Leitrim 6. London 7. Fermanagh 8. Longford South - 1. Waterford 2. Tipperary 3. Wicklow 4. Offaly 5. Carlow 6. Wexford 7. Laois 8. Westmeath (If they lose against Kildare) Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 667 - 10/05/2022 11:44:30 2416190 Link
Replying To oneoff: "Again what's stopping any county from being promoted to Div1? You're trying to say there's something stopping them. In other sports, particularly soccer, teams who get promoted often go back down after a season yet no one ever says those leagues need to be changed. Just admit what you want is for teams to be brought up to a higher level just for the sake of it." I have literally highlighted this to you. Now multiple times. Nothing is stopping them being promoted to Division 1. That's not the problem. The problem is the instant relegation. They can't break through as the ladder has been pulled up. The Top 6 play each other constantly, and are racing away from the rest, and the rest can't break in. The stats are there to see, if you would only just look. But can I ask, why the resistance to change for our secondary competition? We've changed our Championship more times recently that the League. It has been changed 3 times now since 2001, with a big 4th coming next year, with league only changing once in that time in 2008? What's your issue with trying something? We adjusted the League as often as required back in the day. And it is clear the League only works for a few, and not for many as it is right now. So why not try it? What's to lose? Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 10/05/2022 12:29:17 2416211 Link
Replying To Whammo86: " Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Well boys, unfortunately I think our dear Tailteann Cup is dead on arrival. Now that more details are out, there's not a lot of happy people out there, including a lot involved with sides in it this year. See link. New York get a bye through 2 rounds, straight to the quarters. The preliminary round and Round 1 will be divided on a geographical basis (which worked really well in leagues last year. Not). Bit mad when you consider 4 of the top 5 in the bookies would be in the North. Way to lopside the draw lads, the North teams will likely knock each other out, and leave an odd situation where some better teams will be out before the quarters. We want to play different teams too, not the same we meet in Ulster every year, and I'd imagine some in the South are the same too. Jeez but they've made a right mess out of this. Like I've consistently said, I want this to work, but with some tweaks. But they've killed this on arrival. You're all acting like this is the saviour of football, but they couldn't even organise a 16 team knockout tournament properly? And you think the GAA have the best interests of the weaker counties at heart? Give over. This is a pat on the head and a shoving out of the way into a dark corner. Someone said it well elsewhere: "A common theme is that the less likely your county is to be involved in the Tailteann, the more you are in favour of it. And vice versa". This is literally what's happening here too." This year's edition shouldn't have gone ahead. It should never have been on the cards even. Blame Horan for wanting a legacy from his presidency. Next year's edition is the future Tailteann cup proper." The GAA wanted this year's Tailteann to be a guaranteed 16. Counties weren't ready to vote for that in October in 2019 but at the beginning of this year they were ready to vote for it. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 10/05/2022 14:07:23 2416257 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I have literally highlighted this to you. Now multiple times. Nothing is stopping them being promoted to Division 1. That's not the problem. The problem is the instant relegation. They can't break through as the ladder has been pulled up. The Top 6 play each other constantly, and are racing away from the rest, and the rest can't break in. The stats are there to see, if you would only just look. But can I ask, why the resistance to change for our secondary competition? We've changed our Championship more times recently that the League. It has been changed 3 times now since 2001, with a big 4th coming next year, with league only changing once in that time in 2008? What's your issue with trying something? We adjusted the League as often as required back in the day. And it is clear the League only works for a few, and not for many as it is right now. So why not try it? What's to lose?" I hear where you're coming from, I don't like that the battle for Tailteann is somewhat restricted to division 2. I also just think 2 divisions of 2 groups of 8 would make for the best championship if we weren't trying to protect the 4 divisions of 8 National Leagues. One point I'd make in favour of the league status quo is that it's probably not a bad thing for the league as a secondary competition to have the sort of intense structure as it currently does. If you took that away maybe it just peters out into a drawn out preseason procession, although the battle for Tailteann would reduce that. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 10/05/2022 14:13:47 2416259 Link
Replying To Temple56: "If it is true that the Tailteann Cup's early rounds are spilt into North and South. This looks to be the way the teams will be split: North - 1. Antrim 2. Cavan 3. Down 4. Sligo 5. Leitrim 6. London 7. Fermanagh 8. Longford South - 1. Waterford 2. Tipperary 3. Wicklow 4. Offaly 5. Carlow 6. Wexford 7. Laois 8. Westmeath (If they lose against Kildare)" not for nothing but surely London is south and Westmeath is north in that selection? This North-South thing seems only to be for this year and won't be part of the round robin format from next year onward. So it may be that we have to put up with the balls that is being made of this years format until next year when we get to the proper structure we all thought we were getting. I would ask why they did it that way, but we are dealing with GAA officials here, so......! LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 10/05/2022 14:29:29 2416265 Link
Replying To Temple56: "If it is true that the Tailteann Cup's early rounds are spilt into North and South. This looks to be the way the teams will be split: North - 1. Antrim 2. Cavan 3. Down 4. Sligo 5. Leitrim 6. London 7. Fermanagh 8. Longford South - 1. Waterford 2. Tipperary 3. Wicklow 4. Offaly 5. Carlow 6. Wexford 7. Laois 8. Westmeath (If they lose against Kildare)" There is not a fixture in either group that would attract any more than 1000 supporters. Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 10/05/2022 14:42:36 2416271 Link
Replying To Temple56: "If it is true that the Tailteann Cup's early rounds are spilt into North and South. This looks to be the way the teams will be split: North - 1. Antrim 2. Cavan 3. Down 4. Sligo 5. Leitrim 6. London 7. Fermanagh 8. Longford South - 1. Waterford 2. Tipperary 3. Wicklow 4. Offaly 5. Carlow 6. Wexford 7. Laois 8. Westmeath (If they lose against Kildare)" If Tipperary footballers beat Limerick, and qualify for the Munster Final, they are not included in the Tailteann Cup. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 10/05/2022 14:44:55 2416272 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I hear where you're coming from, I don't like that the battle for Tailteann is somewhat restricted to division 2. I also just think 2 divisions of 2 groups of 8 would make for the best championship if we weren't trying to protect the 4 divisions of 8 National Leagues. One point I'd make in favour of the league status quo is that it's probably not a bad thing for the league as a secondary competition to have the sort of intense structure as it currently does. If you took that away maybe it just peters out into a drawn out preseason procession, although the battle for Tailteann would reduce that." I don't think it would peter out at all. If you have playoffs to decide champion at the top and relegation playoffs at the bottom of both Division 1s, and promotion playoffs at the top of the Division 2s. You'd find it fair hard to get dead rubber games or games petering out when there's a lot to play for. Division 2 sides will be busting themselves to try get up, avoid the Tailteann Cup, and getting into Division 1 and Sam next year to test themselves. Similar for Division 1, some will be aiming to get into the playoffs to win it out, others will be fighting to save their status and be in Division 1 and Sam next year. Every team has the opportunity to go up or down if you have a good or bad season Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 10/05/2022 15:23:43 2416296 Link
Replying To Temple56: "If it is true that the Tailteann Cup's early rounds are spilt into North and South. This looks to be the way the teams will be split: North - 1. Antrim 2. Cavan 3. Down 4. Sligo 5. Leitrim 6. London 7. Fermanagh 8. Longford South - 1. Waterford 2. Tipperary 3. Wicklow 4. Offaly 5. Carlow 6. Wexford 7. Laois 8. Westmeath (If they lose against Kildare)" I don't see one section there being particularly stronger than the other, not sure what all the fuss is about. Regarding NY, it seems reasonable to me that they are not expected to travel to Ireland 2-3 weeks in a row. Bringing them in at quarter final stage means they would be only travelling every 3rd weekend for a total of 3 games if they make it to the final, which would still be hard on the players but at least manageable. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 10/05/2022 15:26:12 2416298 Link
If limerick lose do they enter tailtean cup??where do New York come into it??i also don't agree with the split that's spoken about.surely an open draw would bring more interest.. CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2715 - 10/05/2022 15:29:14 2416300 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I don't think it would peter out at all. If you have playoffs to decide champion at the top and relegation playoffs at the bottom of both Division 1s, and promotion playoffs at the top of the Division 2s. You'd find it fair hard to get dead rubber games or games petering out when there's a lot to play for. Division 2 sides will be busting themselves to try get up, avoid the Tailteann Cup, and getting into Division 1 and Sam next year to test themselves. Similar for Division 1, some will be aiming to get into the playoffs to win it out, others will be fighting to save their status and be in Division 1 and Sam next year. Every team has the opportunity to go up or down if you have a good or bad season" Most dynamics you describe there exists in todays league structure. Division 2 sides will be busting themselves to get high enough to avoid Tailteann Cup should a lower team get to a provincial final. It may surprise you but Division 2 sides bust themselves today to get promoted or avoid relegation. Division 1 sides will be busting themselves to get to the League final or avoid relegation on the other end. That has always been the case. I know you think otherwise (closed shop etc.) but many of us just don't buy that argument. Every team has the opportunity to go up or down if you have a good or bad season. It sounds like you are trying to promote a system of equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. That might have bigger gate receipts for a while but it won't end up with better outcomes for the weaker sides. Today's league offers all teams equality of opportunity. If you start low you can go high and vice versa. There are no structural barriers stopping promotion or feeding into relegation (trends are not structures). I will again point out that my own county has been in Divisions 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the past 20 years. Teams bounce up and back down because of their own performances, not because of any structural cabals at work. If you take the divisions and shake them into something else, they will eventually settle back into what we have today and when the dust settles each county will have the same ability to climb or fall as they have today. LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 10/05/2022 15:41:30 2416312 Link
Replying To CTGAA10: "If limerick lose do they enter tailtean cup??where do New York come into it??i also don't agree with the split that's spoken about.surely an open draw would bring more interest.." No, as they went up to Division 2, they'll not drop to the Tailteann Cup. New York get a bye past the preliminary round (if there is one required) and Round 1 into the quarter finals. I completely agree, it's a joke with the split, as there seems to be many more stronger teams in the north. And we pretty much play each other regularly in Ulster anyway. We want new teams matchups... Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 10/05/2022 15:49:51 2416315 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "No, as they went up to Division 2, they'll not drop to the Tailteann Cup. New York get a bye past the preliminary round (if there is one required) and Round 1 into the quarter finals. I completely agree, it's a joke with the split, as there seems to be many more stronger teams in the north. And we pretty much play each other regularly in Ulster anyway. We want new teams matchups..." If it's about giving teams more games well why give New Youk or anyone else a bye to the quarters? Also if they or London are drawn at home do the opposing counties or Croke Park foot the travelling bill? Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 10/05/2022 15:52:59 2416317 Link
Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Most dynamics you describe there exists in todays league structure. Division 2 sides will be busting themselves to get high enough to avoid Tailteann Cup should a lower team get to a provincial final. It may surprise you but Division 2 sides bust themselves today to get promoted or avoid relegation. Division 1 sides will be busting themselves to get to the League final or avoid relegation on the other end. That has always been the case. I know you think otherwise (closed shop etc.) but many of us just don't buy that argument. Every team has the opportunity to go up or down if you have a good or bad season. It sounds like you are trying to promote a system of equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. That might have bigger gate receipts for a while but it won't end up with better outcomes for the weaker sides. Today's league offers all teams equality of opportunity. If you start low you can go high and vice versa. There are no structural barriers stopping promotion or feeding into relegation (trends are not structures). I will again point out that my own county has been in Divisions 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the past 20 years. Teams bounce up and back down because of their own performances, not because of any structural cabals at work. If you take the divisions and shake them into something else, they will eventually settle back into what we have today and when the dust settles each county will have the same ability to climb or fall as they have today." They only exist between a handful of sides at the top of D3 and the bottom of D2. Movement from D1 and D4 doesn't affect where they go in Championship that year. My suggestion has every team in with an opportunity, more teams in with a chance of moving, and no case where the fates of teams in 2 divisions is already decided before a ball is kicked. By any measure, the current structure is too restrictive, as I've consistently pointed out. 2 teams up and 2 teams down in League and therefore Championship is not right. You'll not talk me around this. they've messed up by majorly adjusting the Championship and not aligning it properly with League. Look objectively, I beg you. the league as our secondary competition should change. I really do not get the resistance, it helps far more teams than the current way does. Like I fully get your points, and I agreed up to this year. But you're looking at it as if the league is the main competition, when it's not. It's the ground for how we expose teams to different levels, help bring others on, and not widen the divide. By any measure, the divide has gaped far wider last number of years. that much is clear. And this doesn't help. Jeez, like you're from Longford. If you were Kerry, Mayo, or Dublin defending this, I'd get it. But this system does not help the counties just below, or trying to bridge across. It's set for the best team, by the best teams. And you're eating what they're serving Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 10/05/2022 16:07:17 2416323 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I don't think it would peter out at all. If you have playoffs to decide champion at the top and relegation playoffs at the bottom of both Division 1s, and promotion playoffs at the top of the Division 2s. You'd find it fair hard to get dead rubber games or games petering out when there's a lot to play for. Division 2 sides will be busting themselves to try get up, avoid the Tailteann Cup, and getting into Division 1 and Sam next year to test themselves. Similar for Division 1, some will be aiming to get into the playoffs to win it out, others will be fighting to save their status and be in Division 1 and Sam next year. Every team has the opportunity to go up or down if you have a good or bad season" I just wonder is division 1 status the goal rather than to actually win the competition. Maybe I'm a bit too cynical though. Im not disagreeing with you exactly, just playing devils advocate a bit. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4731 - 10/05/2022 16:23:52 2416329 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "No, as they went up to Division 2, they'll not drop to the Tailteann Cup. New York get a bye past the preliminary round (if there is one required) and Round 1 into the quarter finals. I completely agree, it's a joke with the split, as there seems to be many more stronger teams in the north. And we pretty much play each other regularly in Ulster anyway. We want new teams matchups..." While I completely agree it should be open draw , NY thing is a farce and it should be first team out home game and NY should have to travel as well - I do not see that big of a difference in the teams in North and South - the league positions just do not justify that. Div 3 is 50/50 split. So Div 4 has to be as well. There is not that much between Div 4 teams and in one off games at home I am not sure you will see the league rankings make much of a difference. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2232 - 10/05/2022 16:34:59 2416333 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I have literally highlighted this to you. Now multiple times. Nothing is stopping them being promoted to Division 1. That's not the problem. The problem is the instant relegation. They can't break through as the ladder has been pulled up. The Top 6 play each other constantly, and are racing away from the rest, and the rest can't break in. The stats are there to see, if you would only just look. But can I ask, why the resistance to change for our secondary competition? We've changed our Championship more times recently that the League. It has been changed 3 times now since 2001, with a big 4th coming next year, with league only changing once in that time in 2008? What's your issue with trying something? We adjusted the League as often as required back in the day. And it is clear the League only works for a few, and not for many as it is right now. So why not try it? What's to lose?" But you keep saying it's a closed shop meaning you think there's a reason they can't be promoted. Oh now so not only do you want teams to be just placed into a higher division you also want it so they can't be relegated on top of it. I've no issues with trying things. Whst I have an issue with is this idea people like you and others want teams to be moved up just for the sake of it. What's your next suggestion going to be? Teams who come up play all their games at home? oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 10/05/2022 17:12:00 2416346 Link
https://hoganstand.com/County/National/Article/Index/323409 The draw is taking place next Monday morning. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 10/05/2022 19:07:48 2416374 Link

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Tailteann Cup 2022