National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To Viking66:  "Suppose it wasnt Sam back then lol!!!! Point I was making who knows what the lay of the land in football or hurling might be in 50 or 100 years. Might be a Limerick v Wexford Football final for Sam or his successor in 30 years time!"
Still won't be Mayo winning Sam though :)

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 03/08/2021 14:44:58    2367281

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Replying To Viking66:  "Suppose it wasnt Sam back then lol!!!! Point I was making who knows what the lay of the land in football or hurling might be in 50 or 100 years. Might be a Limerick v Wexford Football final for Sam or his successor in 30 years time!"
I have more than a passing connection with the Model County and I saw them in most of the Leinster Finals, in both hurling and football, they played this century- and I believe both counties were unlucky not to win provincial titles in Football in that time,- so I'd be delighted to see a Wexford/Limerick Football final. However as I am old I do not think I'll see it and I do not believe I will ever see Limerick win a Munster Senior title in football, although like in Wexford a fair bit of football is played throughout the county.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/08/2021 14:46:10    2367282

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Look baire games change. If you want to talk about past glory days, look at championship games on utube from the oughties/nineties and the first touch of players to day is light years faster . The players are more athletic and the accuracy of most players is way better than it was twenty years ago. The game has changed and evolved, but I can tell this much that if you took hand passing totally out of the game in the morning completely- and that is the only way you can do it- Players like Hannon, Finn, Lynch Casey, Gulland & Co would probably be one of the best players in Ireland, and you would only have succeeded in slowing down the game further. The fact is that since 1897 when a Limerick team (who else!) brought a new tactic called hook and block to an All Ireland Final to successfully frustrate a possibly more skillful KKK team in an All Ireland Final new tactics have been frowned upon by some people. Mick Mackey was criticized for solo running even within his own county. If you think the game moved faster before, look at any of the two '18 semi finals and then look at any of the nineties championship games that are on utube, as I have done recently, and the '18 games are way better spectacles. As for professional back room teams some teams always been ahead of the frame. Going back to '87 Tipp were running huge fund raising nights when other counties were not. Back in the '70s In Cork good hurlers were guaranteed well paid jobs in the business houses of the city, while in limerick rugby players got those plum jobs and many good hurlers in the county had to emigrate.. There has never been an even playing field and there never will be. Anyway how are you going to stop well funded back room teams- ? insist that every county has one trainer and two selectors and no back room team as it was back in the fifties- I dont think so."
I agree with most of what you say, Oldtourman, but your reference to Tipp's fundraising nights in 1987 needs to be put in context. The county board was heavily in debt as a result of the redevelopment of Semple Stadium for the Centenary All-Ireland in 1984. When Babs took over in late 1986 he knew he couldn't get the financial help he needed from the board, there was no major sponsorship available, so he set up the Supporters' Club. He took a leading role himself in the fundraising and ensured that there was sufficient money available to fund team training, equipment.etc. So the fundraising nights were an absolute necessity in Tipp, unlike some other counties where county boards were in a position to provide funding. Some Tipp people may think Babs could have got more than two All-Irelands from the players he had available but he will always be credited with restoring respectability to Tipp and the setting up of the Supporters' Club was a major factor in the success that followed.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 604 - 03/08/2021 14:49:34    2367283

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Replying To baire:  "They were the dominant team for a period of 20 years for a number of reasons, but Brian Cody as a driven, obsessive, ruthless and intelligent manager was the main reason - a manager who got himself onto the GAA rules committee while still managing KK - the GAA not having the cojones to prevent such a conflict of interest and abuse of power.
Other reasons:
KK obviously have tradition and hurlers (having been weaned off the cricket).
Success breeds success.
Other competing sports are frowned upon if not prohibited in KK, eg gaelic football, soccer, rugby.
A strong Norman ancestry with a huge history of conquest and subjugating gaels!
An insatiable desire to win, not for the sake of winning, but to boast about being the best team of all time, to convince themselves that Shefflin was a better hurler than Canning and to constantly remind others of their huge haul of medals and All Ireland titles!
Not being satisfied to beat teams but to humiliate and obliterate them off the pitch while publicly claiming that the game was competitive!
Years of abuse from Tipp!
The dark arts - shhhhh!"
There are plenty Brodericks, Barretts, Barrys and Burkes, among other Norman names in both Limerick and Galway to suggest out Nordic/Gallic friends left plenty of their seed in the Treaty and Tribesmen counties as well.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/08/2021 14:51:55    2367286

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Replying To baire:  "They were the dominant team for a period of 20 years for a number of reasons, but Brian Cody as a driven, obsessive, ruthless and intelligent manager was the main reason - a manager who got himself onto the GAA rules committee while still managing KK - the GAA not having the cojones to prevent such a conflict of interest and abuse of power.
Other reasons:
KK obviously have tradition and hurlers (having been weaned off the cricket).
Success breeds success.
Other competing sports are frowned upon if not prohibited in KK, eg gaelic football, soccer, rugby.
A strong Norman ancestry with a huge history of conquest and subjugating gaels!
An insatiable desire to win, not for the sake of winning, but to boast about being the best team of all time, to convince themselves that Shefflin was a better hurler than Canning and to constantly remind others of their huge haul of medals and All Ireland titles!
Not being satisfied to beat teams but to humiliate and obliterate them off the pitch while publicly claiming that the game was competitive!
Years of abuse from Tipp!
The dark arts - shhhhh!"
There are plenty Brodericks, Barretts, Barrys and Burkes, among other Norman names in both Limerick and Galway to suggest out Nordic/Gallic friends left plenty of their seed in the Treaty and Tribesmen counties as well.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/08/2021 14:56:15    2367287

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "I have more than a passing connection with the Model County and I saw them in most of the Leinster Finals, in both hurling and football, they played this century- and I believe both counties were unlucky not to win provincial titles in Football in that time,- so I'd be delighted to see a Wexford/Limerick Football final. However as I am old I do not think I'll see it and I do not believe I will ever see Limerick win a Munster Senior title in football, although like in Wexford a fair bit of football is played throughout the county."
Doubt I'll be around then either Oldtourman. While Idve loved to have lived through the 50s and 60s when Wexford were a genuine hurling force hopefully I might live to see Liam by the Slaney some day again. But then that's what being a supporter is all about. Hope springs eternal!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15903 - 03/08/2021 15:17:12    2367296

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Replying To midlands:  "I agree with most of what you say, Oldtourman, but your reference to Tipp's fundraising nights in 1987 needs to be put in context. The county board was heavily in debt as a result of the redevelopment of Semple Stadium for the Centenary All-Ireland in 1984. When Babs took over in late 1986 he knew he couldn't get the financial help he needed from the board, there was no major sponsorship available, so he set up the Supporters' Club. He took a leading role himself in the fundraising and ensured that there was sufficient money available to fund team training, equipment.etc. So the fundraising nights were an absolute necessity in Tipp, unlike some other counties where county boards were in a position to provide funding. Some Tipp people may think Babs could have got more than two All-Irelands from the players he had available but he will always be credited with restoring respectability to Tipp and the setting up of the Supporters' Club was a major factor in the success that followed."
Yes, but for years our County Board, who also developed a field, seemed to always depend on Home/away games with Clare, for extra revenue. This was a disastrous policy as however poor Clare teams were they were always difficult to beat in Ennis and even beat us there in '72, when we had a fine team. Clare, as they often did in them days, collapsed in the final, which of course was played away from Cusack Park. Remember Tipp went there once, in '85, and lost and rightly never again went back until '19 and the new Round Robin system was in. Yes indeed, the setting up of the Supporters Club in Tipp was vital and it took years for our County Board to get out and get decent support for our teams.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/08/2021 16:02:38    2367320

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Replying To Viking66:  "Doubt I'll be around then either Oldtourman. While Idve loved to have lived through the 50s and 60s when Wexford were a genuine hurling force hopefully I might live to see Liam by the Slaney some day again. But then that's what being a supporter is all about. Hope springs eternal!"
Those Wexford hurling teams of the 60's were a sight to behold. Did not see much of the 50's. Just running around in the yard being one of their heroes or Franky Walsh and Philly Grimes. Back boned by the names Quigley, Jacob, Doran, Neville and many other greats. I love my Munster hurling but those Leinster finals with Kilkenny could not be surpassed by anything. I never missed one.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3057 - 03/08/2021 16:12:40    2367328

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "There are plenty Brodericks, Barretts, Barrys and Burkes, among other Norman names in both Limerick and Galway to suggest out Nordic/Gallic friends left plenty of their seed in the Treaty and Tribesmen counties as well."
Kilkenny had an English Catholic plantation in the 17th century. I think the only place in Ireland to have English Catholics resettle in Ireland. Surnames like Blanchford, Tyrell would be some of them

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 03/08/2021 17:03:14    2367342

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Replying To Canuck:  "Those Wexford hurling teams of the 60's were a sight to behold. Did not see much of the 50's. Just running around in the yard being one of their heroes or Franky Walsh and Philly Grimes. Back boned by the names Quigley, Jacob, Doran, Neville and many other greats. I love my Munster hurling but those Leinster finals with Kilkenny could not be surpassed by anything. I never missed one."
You are a lucky man Canuck!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15903 - 03/08/2021 17:06:53    2367346

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Let's see: Limerick v Waterford...Limerick by 2 points. Cork v Kilkenny...KK by 2 points.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2512 - 03/08/2021 17:15:15    2367347

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes, but for years our County Board, who also developed a field, seemed to always depend on Home/away games with Clare, for extra revenue. This was a disastrous policy as however poor Clare teams were they were always difficult to beat in Ennis and even beat us there in '72, when we had a fine team. Clare, as they often did in them days, collapsed in the final, which of course was played away from Cusack Park. Remember Tipp went there once, in '85, and lost and rightly never again went back until '19 and the new Round Robin system was in. Yes indeed, the setting up of the Supporters Club in Tipp was vital and it took years for our County Board to get out and get decent support for our teams."
Agreed, Oldtourman, Clare were very difficult to beat in Ennis. I happened to be at that game you mention, which was actually in 1986. I remember Tipp were without their only current All-Star, Nicky English. They had a big lead early in the second half but ended up losing by two points - sounds familiar? I also remember, when Cusack Park was being redeveloped, Clare played their home league games in Tulla, which was even more of a fortress than Ennis. I can't be sure but I don't remember Clare ever losing in Tulla.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 604 - 03/08/2021 17:38:42    2367357

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Replying To Viking66:  "You are a lucky man Canuck!"
At one of those finals the first day it was draw and the second day it was neck and in the final minutes. The banter was over and back. A Wexford fan shouted f off "ye pissed on yere ammunition rather than fight. I did not know what he meant. Living in Kilkenny at the time my wife's uncle lived next door. I went and asked him. He said legend had that in 1798 the Wexford forces sent for help to the Kilkenny forces stationed in Rossbergin across the bridge in New Ross. The messenger went on the beer and never delivered the call. As far as the Wexford forces were concerned they peed on there ammunitions and would not fight. Probably a legend but it was so funny in the heat of a hurling match that someone went 200 years. I just about peed myself with the laughing with the explanation.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3057 - 03/08/2021 18:10:19    2367371

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Replying To Canuck:  "At one of those finals the first day it was draw and the second day it was neck and in the final minutes. The banter was over and back. A Wexford fan shouted f off "ye pissed on yere ammunition rather than fight. I did not know what he meant. Living in Kilkenny at the time my wife's uncle lived next door. I went and asked him. He said legend had that in 1798 the Wexford forces sent for help to the Kilkenny forces stationed in Rossbergin across the bridge in New Ross. The messenger went on the beer and never delivered the call. As far as the Wexford forces were concerned they peed on there ammunitions and would not fight. Probably a legend but it was so funny in the heat of a hurling match that someone went 200 years. I just about peed myself with the laughing with the explanation."
Still said about them to this day down this way Canuck:-D

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15903 - 03/08/2021 18:20:17    2367372

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Let's see: Limerick v Waterford...Limerick by 2 points. Cork v Kilkenny...KK by 2 points."
I disagree..... I'm going for the teams with momentum!!
Cork v Kilkenny.............Cork
Waterford v limrik.........Waterford

katser (Galway) - Posts: 2587 - 03/08/2021 18:36:12    2367375

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Replying To katser:  "I disagree..... I'm going for the teams with momentum!!
Cork v Kilkenny.............Cork
Waterford v limrik.........Waterford"
i met your cousins here in limerick recently ...they said you havnt got over 2018 yet......

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1143 - 03/08/2021 20:25:58    2367396

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Limerick vs Waterford.( Limerick by 8 points )Cork vs Kilkenny (Cork by 5 points ). Limerick's physique too much for Waterford. Cork's speed too much for old timers like TJ. Reid

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 03/08/2021 21:25:17    2367403

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Replying To katser:  "I disagree..... I'm going for the teams with momentum!!
Cork v Kilkenny.............Cork
Waterford v limrik.........Waterford"
The only teams left in Championship with 'momentum' are Kilkenny and Limerick, they both haven't lost a game.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2787 - 03/08/2021 21:45:45    2367409

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Kilkenny had an English Catholic plantation in the 17th century. I think the only place in Ireland to have English Catholics resettle in Ireland. Surnames like Blanchford, Tyrell would be some of them"
Bloodyban. Laois and Offaly were respectively called Queens and Kings County with Portleix called Maryborough and Birr called Philipborough. Both Philip and Mary were Catholic Monarchs. There was also a Catholic Plantation in North Wexford and Mrs OTMs maiden name is one of a few common there that are English names to this day.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 03/08/2021 21:51:24    2367414

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Replying To Rockies:  "Limerick vs Waterford.( Limerick by 8 points )Cork vs Kilkenny (Cork by 5 points ). Limerick's physique too much for Waterford. Cork's speed too much for old timers like TJ. Reid"
Ya we should be at least 30/1playing four weeks in a row and up against that Limerick machine. Limerick will push us all over the place. No hopers like the last two games. God help ye IF ye beat the cats going up against that Limerick machine. However I have my doubts that ye will be allowed run around again them cats like the last day. You never know for sure what will happen but sure let the best horses jump the fences and enjoy it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3057 - 03/08/2021 23:22:46    2367425

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