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2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To Canuck:  "Maurice Shanahan 4-13 today on top of all he scored last year. Connors is still not just the best defender in the county but one of the best in the country. Makes you wonder but I guess that is why Liam Cahill is the manager and not me or anyone else."
Scoring 4-13 in a club match while very impressive is completely irrelevant to playing modern intercounty hurling Canuck. Whole obviously inter county forwards are expected to chip in with scores its equally important to be the 1st line of defence and cover back. I'm not involved with Waterford hurling but reading between the lines I'd guess Connors wasnt able to commit to the training etc required for Cahills game plan. He is as you say one of the top defenders in the country but building a team involves building a team identity, style of play, and bond between the players. All this requires players to be together for more hours a week than maybe Connors was able to give.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 30/08/2021 15:29:30    2376460

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Replying To Canuck:  "Maurice Shanahan 4-13 today on top of all he scored last year. Connors is still not just the best defender in the county but one of the best in the country. Makes you wonder but I guess that is why Liam Cahill is the manager and not me or anyone else."
Scoring 4-13 in a club match while very impressive is completely irrelevant to playing modern intercounty hurling Canuck. Whole obviously inter county forwards are expected to chip in with scores its equally important to be the 1st line of defence and cover back. I'm not involved with Waterford hurling but reading between the lines I'd guess Connors wasnt able to commit to the training etc required for Cahills game plan. He is as you say one of the top defenders in the country but building a team involves building a team identity, style of play, and bond between the players. All this requires players to be together for more hours a week than maybe Connors was able to give.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 30/08/2021 15:29:57    2376461

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "Is it not up to the manager of all teams to pick the players he wants?our own man in limerick got rid of fellas after 2018 and no questions were asked..I'm sure if players like those mentioned catch the managers eye they'll be back in contention..I'm sure there are players in every county who people would say they should be on the panels.."
Of course there are players we all feel should be playing intercounty. But firstly we dont know if they want to or are able to put in the time. And secondly if a team does do badly we arent the ones who have to take the criticism.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 30/08/2021 15:34:08    2376466

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Replying To Canuck:  "Maurice Shanahan 4-13 today on top of all he scored last year. Connors is still not just the best defender in the county but one of the best in the country. Makes you wonder but I guess that is why Liam Cahill is the manager and not me or anyone else."
To be fair though Maurice was kicking around the senior setup for a good few years and never really managed to set the world on fire. Its a shame he is not involved as he's a guy I always had good time for coming up through the ranks he showed huge promise. He wouldn't get that sort of change from a Sean Finn or a Ronan Maher.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1362 - 30/08/2021 17:22:16    2376500

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Replying To Bon:  "To be fair though Maurice was kicking around the senior setup for a good few years and never really managed to set the world on fire. Its a shame he is not involved as he's a guy I always had good time for coming up through the ranks he showed huge promise. He wouldn't get that sort of change from a Sean Finn or a Ronan Maher."
Ya I'm not too sure he would suit the system now but honestly he was an All-Star and Connors more than once. I think players like that deserve to be allowed play themselves out of the line up. That is probably what is happening with Kevin Moran. I don't think either player deserve to say their careers ended when dropped, after service given.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 30/08/2021 18:12:37    2376522

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Replying To Canuck:  "Ya I'm not too sure he would suit the system now but honestly he was an All-Star and Connors more than once. I think players like that deserve to be allowed play themselves out of the line up. That is probably what is happening with Kevin Moran. I don't think either player deserve to say their careers ended when dropped, after service given."
I agree that they definitly should have at the least been given a chance within the extended training panel at the start. Its like Liam Cahill had his mind made up that if he got the Waterford job these guys were going to have to place in his planes. Connors was a very strange situation whatever went down there.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1362 - 30/08/2021 18:55:26    2376539

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Replying To Canuck:  "Ya I'm not too sure he would suit the system now but honestly he was an All-Star and Connors more than once. I think players like that deserve to be allowed play themselves out of the line up. That is probably what is happening with Kevin Moran. I don't think either player deserve to say their careers ended when dropped, after service given."
I'm sure if Connors could commit the time hed be back in unless he had some sort of falling out with Cahill. I think Shanahan like Mahony dont really suit the total hurling style of play that Cahill has introduced.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3211 - 30/08/2021 19:11:38    2376546

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree that they definitly should have at the least been given a chance within the extended training panel at the start. Its like Liam Cahill had his mind made up that if he got the Waterford job these guys were going to have to place in his planes. Connors was a very strange situation whatever went down there."
It's hard to be critical of a man who has done good but it seems disingenuous to say they could play themselves back into the panel. Maurice was lights out on the score chart last year and by all accounts kept himself in great shape over the winter months in the hope of a call back. What else could he do ? Under Derek he was played as a one man target most of the time and would have three players hanging out of him. One on one with Sean Finn or Ronan Maher he would win a decent percentage and rattle the onion sack a few times. I guess managers want to put their own stamp on things. Derek dropped Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley. Nagle an all star half back nominee the year before and Richie back from injury to his best. Both in their prime. Derek admitted he was wrong afterwards but ended the career of two decent players.
Credit to Shanahan and Connors they did not come out publicly anyway, complaining. It is rumoured that Noel introduced himself as the player rep and that was it. You never know with rumours. I think coming back now for them is not going to happen and probably would not work out as now you have to bump someone else.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 30/08/2021 19:56:55    2376558

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Replying To Viking66:  "Scoring 4-13 in a club match while very impressive is completely irrelevant to playing modern intercounty hurling Canuck. Whole obviously inter county forwards are expected to chip in with scores its equally important to be the 1st line of defence and cover back. I'm not involved with Waterford hurling but reading between the lines I'd guess Connors wasnt able to commit to the training etc required for Cahills game plan. He is as you say one of the top defenders in the country but building a team involves building a team identity, style of play, and bond between the players. All this requires players to be together for more hours a week than maybe Connors was able to give."
Ya I know what you are saying Viking 66 but if as a forward coming into a county team and you can never register a score what are your chances. The other things can be thought. We constantly hear of the importance of club play to the inter county scene but is that irrelevant now or just b.s. from managers ? Someone said that lots of players think they should be on the panel but these two players were already on. I know that information on Noel is completely incorrect. Anyway managers do what they think best and are not infallible either. As regards the buck stopping with them. That is only true for the length of time they are with the time, move on to the next team and someone else pick up the pieces.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 30/08/2021 20:12:48    2376566

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree that they definitly should have at the least been given a chance within the extended training panel at the start. Its like Liam Cahill had his mind made up that if he got the Waterford job these guys were going to have to place in his planes. Connors was a very strange situation whatever went down there."
It's hard to be critical of a man who has done good but it seems disingenuous to say they could play themselves back into the panel. Maurice was lights out on the score chart last year and by all accounts kept himself in great shape over the winter months in the hope of a call back. What else could he do ? Under Derek he was played as a one man target most of the time and would have three players hanging out of him. One on one with Sean Finn or Ronan Maher he would win a decent percentage and rattle the onion sack a few times. I guess managers want to put their own stamp on things. Derek dropped Jamie Nagle and Richie Foley. Nagle an all star half back nominee the year before and Richie back from injury to his best. Both in their prime. Derek admitted he was wrong afterwards but ended the career of two decent players.
Credit to Shanahan and Connors they did not come out publicly anyway, complaining. It is rumoured that Noel introduced himself as the player rep and that was it. You never know with rumours. I think coming back now for them is not going to happen and probably would not work out as now you have to bump someone else.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 30/08/2021 20:17:02    2376570

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree that they definitly should have at the least been given a chance within the extended training panel at the start. Its like Liam Cahill had his mind made up that if he got the Waterford job these guys were going to have to place in his planes. Connors was a very strange situation whatever went down there."
I dont think it was so strange. IIRC Connors was taken to the cleaners in a Munster championship match vs Clare the summer before Cahill took over. Everyone can have an off day of course but maybe it was that game and his form in other games that summer that made Cahill's mind up about him.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1601 - 30/08/2021 20:31:55    2376574

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Replying To Rockies:  "The great scribe is correct! Champions for years to come... at least 3 years. There will be a few sparring partners, but no serious opposition. Cork's underage teams will be next contenders in a few years."
I agree that Limerick look set to dominate for the foreseable future but I certainly wouldn't regard Tommy Conlon as "a great scribe". Maybe he's an expert on some sports but his understanding of GAA is questionable, to say the least. In that article of 22nd July he attached huge significance to Seamus Flanagan's crude tackle on Paudie Maher . Acknowledging that it was illegal - "using his hurley as a wooden clothesline" - he suggested that Flanagan was making a major statement. Ridiculous stuff! Kyle Hayes' memorable goal just moments before was THE major statement, and effectively finished the game as a contest. Flanagan's action was very stupid as well as being highly dangerous - much worse than Aaron Gillane's misdemeanour earlier in the half. Flanagan has had an incredible year and is a certain All-Star but he gave the referee every reason to flash a red card which would have ruled him out of the final, and maybe the final as well, since it would have been his second sending off this year. Limerick are worthy champions because of the excellence of their players, including Flanagan. They have swept all opposition aside with the quality of their play, and for Conlon to attach such significance to one reckless "tackle" is an insult to a great team.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 315 - 30/08/2021 21:37:26    2376594

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I dont think it was so strange. IIRC Connors was taken to the cleaners in a Munster championship match vs Clare the summer before Cahill took over. Everyone can have an off day of course but maybe it was that game and his form in other games that summer that made Cahill's mind up about him."
Ya, If everyone who had a bad day were dropped there would be lots of players dropped off panels. Noel is one of the best readers of the game ever and has had a lot more great games than bad ones. He never needed to cover so much ground to end up with the ball in his hand. A once famous Kilkenny back was asked why he did not follow a certain player into the corner. He said why would I he will give it to me on the way out or I will take it off him. Brian Cody once said of Noel he is one of the best to ever play the game. Liam is the manager now and time moves on.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 30/08/2021 23:54:40    2376632

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I've been following the game of hurling almost all my life.

In that time, I'd say you'd have to go back to that great Wexford team of the 50's and 60's, to find a more physically imposing team than the current Limerick team.

Galway of the 1980's had powerful men; Hayes, Niall Mac, Sylvie, Keady, the Connolly's, Steve Mahon (loved his way of playing), Gerry Mac.

Kilkenny have always had them: Dick O'Hara, Paddy Prendergast, the Hop-Delaney, the Henderson's, Cody himself even, and the real rock, Frank Cummins.

With all due respect to Tipperary, I never saw John Doyle hurl or the Ratter, but I saw Bobby Ryan. He'd be in the company that I mention, as would Johnny Crowley of Cork, and Martin Quigley of Wexford. Pat McGrath of Waterford would be in the thick of things.

If I'd had to pick the two best hurlers of the 70's, they'd be Frank Cummins and Martin Quigley.

That was then. Here's the now. I've yet to see a hurling team as physically imposing in almost every position as this Limerick team. They seem to have a lot of Frank Cummings' and Martin Quigley's around the field.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 697 - 31/08/2021 15:57:08    2376804

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