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Replying To Timbertony: "Bit unfortunate that already one group appears to be a good bit weaker but sure what can you do. Still plenty of hurling to be played and likes of Gorey were flying early last year too. Any players standing out so far as possible county options?" a 'weaker' group is potentially going to mean there will be a fight to the death on the last day between Oulart / Rathnure / Crossabeg .. 1 of the 3 will end up in a Q/F .. 1 will end up in relegation .. This weekend is 'moving' day as they say in Golf .. Two big games in Wexford Park Sunday evening .. If Crossabeg beat Rathnure well that is them pretty much safe in my opinion .. If Rathnure win then it opens the whole thing up again
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 367 - 11/07/2023 09:23:29
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6/6 right last week big weekend ahead
Harriers v Oilgate: If the Harriers continue to play conservative with one forward they are going to struggle, Oilgate are probably hurling better but gonna call a draw
Glynn v Anne's: Glynn poor the last day but may have had one eye on at Anne's, an Anne's win will prob see them through. Anne's by 4
Gorey V St Martins: Both teams will cruise into the quarters but after losing the first day I think martins will win this one by 2
Rathnure v Crossabeg: Rathnure need a big performance and I think they will win by one
Ferns v Rapps: Co champs going well but I tip rapps to win by 3
Oulart v shels: Shels good son the last day and should have too much. Shels by 4
WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 369 - 11/07/2023 12:57:44
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Replying To beano: "Was at two intermediate matches myself.
Tara Rocks flying it- their fitness really told in the second half and apart from Nolan getting a goal near the end and the pressure that brought, they were comfortable winners. Their county footballers led the way- Dean O'Toole was excellent in midfield, Niall Hughes had a very big second half and Scholsey hit two points off the bench. It looks like Bunclody's decision not to enter the league and instead focus on challenge games have left them under-cooked.
Askamore looked good against a dreadful Adamstown side. I believe there was a bit of turmoil in the camp mid-week and it told. Tucker was good again, especially in the second half, and James Byrne scored a tonne as well. I'd be very surprised if Adamstown don't end up in the relegation play-off again, their game vs Bunclody is must-win. Furlong went off hurt and heard one of the Frenchs is off travelling now too." Bit of an aside, but I'm growing more and more uneasy with the artificial life support arrangement for Tara Rocks. Mentioning it here since the three you say were best for them are all Kilanerin/Ballyfad players.
When the arrangement was first put in place (five or six years ago now - the exact date escapes me), it was supposed to a short-term thing to allow Tara Rocks get over the hump of low playing numbers of their own, and build back to a situation where they could field their own teams, even if only at Junior 'B'.
But they seem to have gone away from that altogether, and are instead more and more focused on what they can achieve with the Kilanerin/Ballyfad players in tow.
When they were last before the full County Board to seek approval for an extension of the arrangement, they were asked "what's your five-year plan?". Their answer was simply "to be playing senior hurling". No mention whatsoever of just fielding in their own right again, and an apparent stark reluctance to accept a drop back down the grades.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 11/07/2023 14:08:28
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit of an aside, but I'm growing more and more uneasy with the artificial life support arrangement for Tara Rocks. Mentioning it here since the three you say were best for them are all Kilanerin/Ballyfad players.
When the arrangement was first put in place (five or six years ago now - the exact date escapes me), it was supposed to a short-term thing to allow Tara Rocks get over the hump of low playing numbers of their own, and build back to a situation where they could field their own teams, even if only at Junior 'B'.
But they seem to have gone away from that altogether, and are instead more and more focused on what they can achieve with the Kilanerin/Ballyfad players in tow.
When they were last before the full County Board to seek approval for an extension of the arrangement, they were asked "what's your five-year plan?". Their answer was simply "to be playing senior hurling". No mention whatsoever of just fielding in their own right again, and an apparent stark reluctance to accept a drop back down the grades." I think everyone within Wexford just now assumes the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement is one thats now permanent really.
Didnt they indicate that it would take 9 years to get playing numbers back up, by that stage is it really going to be reversed?
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1699 - 11/07/2023 16:08:36
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Replying To WexMurph: "6/6 right last week big weekend ahead
Harriers v Oilgate: If the Harriers continue to play conservative with one forward they are going to struggle, Oilgate are probably hurling better but gonna call a draw
Glynn v Anne's: Glynn poor the last day but may have had one eye on at Anne's, an Anne's win will prob see them through. Anne's by 4
Gorey V St Martins: Both teams will cruise into the quarters but after losing the first day I think martins will win this one by 2
Rathnure v Crossabeg: Rathnure need a big performance and I think they will win by one
Ferns v Rapps: Co champs going well but I tip rapps to win by 3
Oulart v shels: Shels good son the last day and should have too much. Shels by 4" Oylegate
Anne's
Gorey
Crossabeg
Ferns
Shels
Intermediate-
Taghmon by 2
St. James by 1
Tara Rocks by 6
Fethard by 2
Cloughbawn by 4
Blackwater by 2
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 11/07/2023 16:28:51
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit of an aside, but I'm growing more and more uneasy with the artificial life support arrangement for Tara Rocks. Mentioning it here since the three you say were best for them are all Kilanerin/Ballyfad players.
When the arrangement was first put in place (five or six years ago now - the exact date escapes me), it was supposed to a short-term thing to allow Tara Rocks get over the hump of low playing numbers of their own, and build back to a situation where they could field their own teams, even if only at Junior 'B'.
But they seem to have gone away from that altogether, and are instead more and more focused on what they can achieve with the Kilanerin/Ballyfad players in tow.
When they were last before the full County Board to seek approval for an extension of the arrangement, they were asked "what's your five-year plan?". Their answer was simply "to be playing senior hurling". No mention whatsoever of just fielding in their own right again, and an apparent stark reluctance to accept a drop back down the grades." Could the county board not sort out the borders of those 2 clubs, Castletown and Gorey? So lads like the lad whose kids are going to school in Castletown might know exactly who his local club are and the clubs know what their catchment areas are? Also why exactly can't lads who kick ball for Kilanerin play for the Rocks like lads who kick ball for Sars and Mary's can hurl for the Harriers?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 11/07/2023 16:35:10
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit of an aside, but I'm growing more and more uneasy with the artificial life support arrangement for Tara Rocks. Mentioning it here since the three you say were best for them are all Kilanerin/Ballyfad players.
When the arrangement was first put in place (five or six years ago now - the exact date escapes me), it was supposed to a short-term thing to allow Tara Rocks get over the hump of low playing numbers of their own, and build back to a situation where they could field their own teams, even if only at Junior 'B'.
But they seem to have gone away from that altogether, and are instead more and more focused on what they can achieve with the Kilanerin/Ballyfad players in tow.
When they were last before the full County Board to seek approval for an extension of the arrangement, they were asked "what's your five-year plan?". Their answer was simply "to be playing senior hurling". No mention whatsoever of just fielding in their own right again, and an apparent stark reluctance to accept a drop back down the grades." 100% agree with you - this arrangement was meant to help them field and compete at underage level .. Personally I think it is a joke .. and in the long term (when it does come to an end) will be no good for either club. They won a host of county championships last year in underage hurling and football which for me says they are too strong or in the wrong division .. U15 / U17 hurling come to mind.
Slaney Harriers are another 'combined' team that have popped up at underage level - a combination of Bunclody and Marshalstown .. If Bunclody cannot field a team in U16 / U18 hurling without the need to join then it is a poor reflection on the Club. Slaney Harriers won U15 Div 2 Feile in Wexford this year .. but Bunclody fielded and competed well in U13 hurling last year .. How can that be good for a Club if they didn't try to get those U13 (now 14 year olds) involved?
I do fully understand need to join but I think a lot of clubs see the short sighted approach ..
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 367 - 11/07/2023 16:42:33
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Just for interests sake this is how Kilkenny structure their League/Championship.
"Yeah senior and intermediate are 12 teams in each, 2 groups of 6. The top 2 teams go to the league final and get a bye to championship q/f, the 2 second placed teams play each other in shield final and get bye to q/f aswell. Then the 3rd placed team plays 4th in the other group and vice versa in first round with the loser being knocked out. The you have the 5th in group one plays 6th in group two and 5th in group 2 plays 6th in group one in a first round/relegation semi final, the winners go to q/f and the losers play each other in the relegation final.
The junior is a little different, there are 3 groups. Group 1 & 2 are for the junior teams that are the clubs first team and then the 3rd group is for teams whose second team are playing at the main junior grade (e.g Dicksboro, Village, Comer). The first 2 groups go similar to the senior/intermediate but then only 3 of these teams get to a semi final. The last semi final spot is for the winner of group 3, the top 2 teams in that group playoff with the winner going to the final. Dicksboro have been pushing hard at junior the last 3 years so you'd fancy them for the semi final spot, the rest of junior is a minefield, you have the ilkes of St Lachtains (Freshford) and Tullogher would be favourites but it could be aby one of 6 teams that cold win it out, Black and Whites won it last year and no one would have picked them out at the start of the year!"
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 11/07/2023 18:00:14
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Replying To Viking66: "Could the county board not sort out the borders of those 2 clubs, Castletown and Gorey? So lads like the lad whose kids are going to school in Castletown might know exactly who his local club are and the clubs know what their catchment areas are? Also why exactly can't lads who kick ball for Kilanerin play for the Rocks like lads who kick ball for Sars and Mary's can hurl for the Harriers?" Not sure what you mean by the County Board sorting out borders. States clearly in county bye-laws that club catchment areas are defined by parish boundaries. I'd say every club knows exactly what its catchment area is, even if there is sometimes a little "blurring" of things as regards accepting somebody from just the wrong side of a border.
The Castletown/Gorey case you mention was one from somebody new to the area and was actually fairly straightforward in the end. He lives in the Gorey area and his children go to a school in the Gorey area (note that it was Tara Hill N.S. in question, not Castletown N.S.). Tara Hill N.S. is very close to the Castletown pitch all right, and has close links with the club there, but it's still a Gorey parish school.
In any event, Castletown has nothing to do with the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement. The traditional Tara Rocks area (just a few townlands) is completely within Gorey parish. It means that anybody in Gorey parish has the choice of Naomh Éanna or Tara Rocks, even if they're from the far side of town altogether to the traditional Tara Rocks area.
It's actually to Naomh Éanna that the Rocks "should" have been looking for support when they were in trouble, but all sorts of political and historical meant that was never going to happen, so they've ended up with this unique cross-parish arrangement with Kilanerin instead.
It's different to Wexford town for a couple of reasons:
- In Wexford, the football-only clubs and the hurling-only clubs (don't forget Clonard!) are all within the same Wexford town catchment area. But Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks are different catchment areas (one is Kilanerin parish, and the other is Gorey parish).
- Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks were both dual clubs before the arrangement came into place whereby they'd field together as Kilanerin in football, and Tara Rocks in hurling. You can't play one code with a dual club, but play the other code with a different dual club. Moving out the road a bit, it would be like somebody deciding they wanted to play hurling with Craanford, but football with St. Patrick's.
Tara Rocks currently only have 15 adult players, according to the number of transfers that went through this year. Kilanerin/Ballyfad sent 43 players the other way.
And as stated, the main focus of Tara Rocks these days seems to be what they can achieve with all these Kilanerin/Ballyfad players on board, rather than about how they can build back to a squad of 20 to 25 of their own, which is what the arrangement was supposed to be about in the first place.
Long post, but a complicated situation, especially if you're unfamiliar with the boundaries and the history involved!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 11/07/2023 18:26:42
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Not sure what you mean by the County Board sorting out borders. States clearly in county bye-laws that club catchment areas are defined by parish boundaries. I'd say every club knows exactly what its catchment area is, even if there is sometimes a little "blurring" of things as regards accepting somebody from just the wrong side of a border.
The Castletown/Gorey case you mention was one from somebody new to the area and was actually fairly straightforward in the end. He lives in the Gorey area and his children go to a school in the Gorey area (note that it was Tara Hill N.S. in question, not Castletown N.S.). Tara Hill N.S. is very close to the Castletown pitch all right, and has close links with the club there, but it's still a Gorey parish school.
In any event, Castletown has nothing to do with the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement. The traditional Tara Rocks area (just a few townlands) is completely within Gorey parish. It means that anybody in Gorey parish has the choice of Naomh Éanna or Tara Rocks, even if they're from the far side of town altogether to the traditional Tara Rocks area.
It's actually to Naomh Éanna that the Rocks "should" have been looking for support when they were in trouble, but all sorts of political and historical meant that was never going to happen, so they've ended up with this unique cross-parish arrangement with Kilanerin instead.
It's different to Wexford town for a couple of reasons:
- In Wexford, the football-only clubs and the hurling-only clubs (don't forget Clonard!) are all within the same Wexford town catchment area. But Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks are different catchment areas (one is Kilanerin parish, and the other is Gorey parish).
- Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks were both dual clubs before the arrangement came into place whereby they'd field together as Kilanerin in football, and Tara Rocks in hurling. You can't play one code with a dual club, but play the other code with a different dual club. Moving out the road a bit, it would be like somebody deciding they wanted to play hurling with Craanford, but football with St. Patrick's.
Tara Rocks currently only have 15 adult players, according to the number of transfers that went through this year. Kilanerin/Ballyfad sent 43 players the other way.
And as stated, the main focus of Tara Rocks these days seems to be what they can achieve with all these Kilanerin/Ballyfad players on board, rather than about how they can build back to a squad of 20 to 25 of their own, which is what the arrangement was supposed to be about in the first place.
Long post, but a complicated situation, especially if you're unfamiliar with the boundaries and the history involved!" Thanks Pikeman I was unfamiliar so that's why I asked!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 12/07/2023 11:00:52
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Replying To Viking66: "Thanks Pikeman I was unfamiliar so that's why I asked!" Essentially since 2017 the long standing Ballynastragh Gaels arrangement the 2 clubs have at underage has extended to adult level from what I can see.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 12/07/2023 11:11:42
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From what I gather the club boundaries are an age old GAA issue, in Dublin especially where its open season but even more so in rural areas where parish boundaries come in to force.
The combined teams are catch 22, do you want 1-2 teams from a combined club playing at a higher level or 2 individual clubs at a lower level?
I would guess (without knowing the stats) Marshalstown would not have a big numbers, so amalgamation was more to help those who want to play in that club? Tara Rock is outside Goery so they should have more numbers?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1635 - 12/07/2023 11:48:14
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Does that mean someone within the gorey parish that plays juins or transfers to tara rocks from Naomh eanna . Has to or can play football with kilinerin . Even though not in that kilinerin ballyfad parish at all .
Technically a good naomh eanna footballer possibly average hurler can leave naomh eanna join Tara rocks and inherit the right to play with kilinerin . Just curious . Or is there some restriction town rule in gorey like wexford town rule transfers . Where they have to sit out a year first before moving . Although that still does not conform to transfer rules to another parish whilst still living in the same parish of club you are leaving
If you know what I mean .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 707 - 12/07/2023 11:52:11
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "From what I gather the club boundaries are an age old GAA issue, in Dublin especially where its open season but even more so in rural areas where parish boundaries come in to force.
The combined teams are catch 22, do you want 1-2 teams from a combined club playing at a higher level or 2 individual clubs at a lower level?
I would guess (without knowing the stats) Marshalstown would not have a big numbers, so amalgamation was more to help those who want to play in that club? Tara Rock is outside Goery so they should have more numbers?" From what Pikeman has said anyone from all of Gorey could play for Tara Rocks. It's probably the same as the Harriers/Clonard situation though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20706 - 12/07/2023 12:00:13
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Not sure what you mean by the County Board sorting out borders. States clearly in county bye-laws that club catchment areas are defined by parish boundaries. I'd say every club knows exactly what its catchment area is, even if there is sometimes a little "blurring" of things as regards accepting somebody from just the wrong side of a border.
The Castletown/Gorey case you mention was one from somebody new to the area and was actually fairly straightforward in the end. He lives in the Gorey area and his children go to a school in the Gorey area (note that it was Tara Hill N.S. in question, not Castletown N.S.). Tara Hill N.S. is very close to the Castletown pitch all right, and has close links with the club there, but it's still a Gorey parish school.
In any event, Castletown has nothing to do with the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement. The traditional Tara Rocks area (just a few townlands) is completely within Gorey parish. It means that anybody in Gorey parish has the choice of Naomh Éanna or Tara Rocks, even if they're from the far side of town altogether to the traditional Tara Rocks area.
It's actually to Naomh Éanna that the Rocks "should" have been looking for support when they were in trouble, but all sorts of political and historical meant that was never going to happen, so they've ended up with this unique cross-parish arrangement with Kilanerin instead.
It's different to Wexford town for a couple of reasons:
- In Wexford, the football-only clubs and the hurling-only clubs (don't forget Clonard!) are all within the same Wexford town catchment area. But Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks are different catchment areas (one is Kilanerin parish, and the other is Gorey parish).
- Kilanerin/Ballyfad and Tara Rocks were both dual clubs before the arrangement came into place whereby they'd field together as Kilanerin in football, and Tara Rocks in hurling. You can't play one code with a dual club, but play the other code with a different dual club. Moving out the road a bit, it would be like somebody deciding they wanted to play hurling with Craanford, but football with St. Patrick's.
Tara Rocks currently only have 15 adult players, according to the number of transfers that went through this year. Kilanerin/Ballyfad sent 43 players the other way.
And as stated, the main focus of Tara Rocks these days seems to be what they can achieve with all these Kilanerin/Ballyfad players on board, rather than about how they can build back to a squad of 20 to 25 of their own, which is what the arrangement was supposed to be about in the first place.
Long post, but a complicated situation, especially if you're unfamiliar with the boundaries and the history involved!" I believe there is a bylaw passed in the 60s which allows people living in Gorey to play for Castletown.
FootballRising (Wexford) - Posts: 29 - 12/07/2023 12:25:36
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Essentially since 2017 the long standing Ballynastragh Gaels arrangement the 2 clubs have at underage has extended to adult level from what I can see." Yeah, that's basically it. And there'd possibly be an argument for "properly" extending it to adult level as well, by having the two clubs formally amalgamate as Ballynastragh Gaels at all levels.
But neither club wants to lose its own identity, and again, it would be going away completely from what the arrangement was supposed to be designed for in the first place.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 12/07/2023 12:52:01
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit of an aside, but I'm growing more and more uneasy with the artificial life support arrangement for Tara Rocks. Mentioning it here since the three you say were best for them are all Kilanerin/Ballyfad players.
When the arrangement was first put in place (five or six years ago now - the exact date escapes me), it was supposed to a short-term thing to allow Tara Rocks get over the hump of low playing numbers of their own, and build back to a situation where they could field their own teams, even if only at Junior 'B'.
But they seem to have gone away from that altogether, and are instead more and more focused on what they can achieve with the Kilanerin/Ballyfad players in tow.
When they were last before the full County Board to seek approval for an extension of the arrangement, they were asked "what's your five-year plan?". Their answer was simply "to be playing senior hurling". No mention whatsoever of just fielding in their own right again, and an apparent stark reluctance to accept a drop back down the grades." It's a tricky one, and the arrangement is a bit loose to put it mildly but I do think your commentary is a bit harsh on Tara Rocks. Up to recently I think the view locally was that Kilanerin (football) were benefitting a lot more than Tara Rocks (hurling) and that the partnership wouldn't last as a result. So fair play for them both for sticking it out and being increasingly successful at both grades.
Obviously Gorey and surrounding areas like Kilanerin and Castletown are benefiting from strong population growth. Without this "alliance" Naomh Eanna would get even more numbers, this wouldn't be healthy either. Definitely the arrangement isn't temporary any longer but at same time I think there's merit in it continuing.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 603 - 12/07/2023 16:18:00
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Replying To Formertownie: "Does that mean someone within the gorey parish that plays juins or transfers to tara rocks from Naomh eanna . Has to or can play football with kilinerin . Even though not in that kilinerin ballyfad parish at all .
Technically a good naomh eanna footballer possibly average hurler can leave naomh eanna join Tara rocks and inherit the right to play with kilinerin . Just curious . Or is there some restriction town rule in gorey like wexford town rule transfers . Where they have to sit out a year first before moving . Although that still does not conform to transfer rules to another parish whilst still living in the same parish of club you are leaving
If you know what I mean ." I know what you mean, and yes, that's the case. A footballer with Naomh Éanna could transfer to Tara Rocks, because he's in the same parish as Tara Rocks. And then as soon as he's a Tara Rocks player, he'd be entitled to play for Kilanerin in football, for however long the Tara Rocks/Kilanerin arrangement remains in place.
There are no rules there like the ones that govern transfers in Wexford town.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 12/07/2023 16:21:25
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Replying To FootballRising: "I believe there is a bylaw passed in the 60s which allows people living in Gorey to play for Castletown." Before my time (!), but I believe that one was introduced when there was little or no football in Gorey itself, and that it was later removed during the 70s or possibly early 80s. There's definitely no mention of it in the current version of the county bye-laws, or any other version I've ever seen in all my years involved in admin.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4052 - 12/07/2023 16:27:21
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Before my time (!), but I believe that one was introduced when there was little or no football in Gorey itself, and that it was later removed during the 70s or possibly early 80s. There's definitely no mention of it in the current version of the county bye-laws, or any other version I've ever seen in all my years involved in admin." How did Castletown get Brosnan on board as a matter of interest?
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 603 - 12/07/2023 17:05:39
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