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National Forum

Tailteann Cup 2022

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NY playing in Tailteann is one of those novel things which will drive up a bit of interest. We all know they'll be plenty of media attention for Waterford v Westmeath. Seems like some of the lower tier counties are afraid they might lose to a team which has only played one match this year.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 10/05/2022 19:35:29    2416380

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I just wonder is division 1 status the goal rather than to actually win the competition. Maybe I'm a bit too cynical though.

Im not disagreeing with you exactly, just playing devils advocate a bit."
It seems to be that people do think that. They want that status and exposure far more than a League that is more equitable and that will help bring teams on. Like I get it, I'd probably be a bit like that myself if up there, but it not best for the sport overall to have a few running away with things at the top.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 07:36:00    2416397

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Replying To zinny:  "While I completely agree it should be open draw , NY thing is a farce and it should be first team out home game and NY should have to travel as well - I do not see that big of a difference in the teams in North and South - the league positions just do not justify that. Div 3 is 50/50 split. So Div 4 has to be as well. There is not that much between Div 4 teams and in one off games at home I am not sure you will see the league rankings make much of a difference."
Ah now, there's a huge difference between the north and South teams. If you drew them now based on geography, 7 of the top 9 on the bookies odds would be in the North. It would be hugely unbalanced. And as I said, most of the teams in North and the South already play each other regularly in league and Championship, so it's just more of the same. Let them play different teams with an open draw.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 07:38:49    2416398

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Ah now, there's a huge difference between the north and South teams. If you drew them now based on geography, 7 of the top 9 on the bookies odds would be in the North. It would be hugely unbalanced. And as I said, most of the teams in North and the South already play each other regularly in league and Championship, so it's just more of the same. Let them play different teams with an open draw."
So, could Cavan happen to have to meet Antrim again? Or are counties that already have met in the championship proper, kept apart in the tilteen?

I'd fear for Cavan if they've to face Antrim, a second day out!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2635 - 11/05/2022 12:13:34    2416468

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Tailteann Cup from 2023 will be a great success, I am confident of that.
Tailteann Cup 2022 is a mess and we just have to accept that now (unfortunately).

Most of us can separate those two things in our heads and not use this years muck-up to smear the competition. For my county the proposed new second tier championship (2023+) is a godsend compared to the nonsense championship options we have today. Bring it on (next year)!

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 11/05/2022 12:19:12    2416469

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Just watched the Sunday Game. They only listed 15 of the 16 teams in the Tilteen Cup. Who is missing? Surely, it can't be Cork, as they'd already lost before the Sunday Game was broadcast.

What's the 16th team? Meath, perhaps?

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2635 - 11/05/2022 12:48:02    2416476

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Just watched the Sunday Game. They only listed 15 of the 16 teams in the Tilteen Cup. Who is missing? Surely, it can't be Cork, as they'd already lost before the Sunday Game was broadcast.

What's the 16th team? Meath, perhaps?"
Tipp or Westmeath depending on results I think

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1651 - 11/05/2022 13:12:48    2416489

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Just watched the Sunday Game. They only listed 15 of the 16 teams in the Tilteen Cup. Who is missing? Surely, it can't be Cork, as they'd already lost before the Sunday Game was broadcast.

What's the 16th team? Meath, perhaps?"
At the moment, Westmeath and Tipperary are not in it unless both are beat this weekend. If they aren't beaten they go to a provincial final and will miss out on this competition to go into the qualifiers. Those 2 if they lose, the other 14 teams in Division 3 and 4 teams (including Offaly and Down who got related to D3 this season) who have already been beaten, and New York (who enter at the QF stage) will play the Tailteann Cup.

Cork and Meath are definitely in Division 2, so will not drop this season. Can change next year though with a tweaking of the rules, when it will be set as 16 only in the Sam Maguire, and there is a potential for Division 2 teams to miss out if other D3 and D4 teams get to a provincial final or such. So you could finish 6th in D2 and stay up next year, but drop down if a D3 team gets to a final for example.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 13:14:10    2416491

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Tailteann Cup from 2023 will be a great success, I am confident of that.
Tailteann Cup 2022 is a mess and we just have to accept that now (unfortunately).

Most of us can separate those two things in our heads and not use this years muck-up to smear the competition. For my county the proposed new second tier championship (2023+) is a godsend compared to the nonsense championship options we have today. Bring it on (next year)!"
Potentially it can be, but no doubt they have already completely messed this up, and it will take some turnaround to bring this back from the edge it is already at.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 13:15:18    2416492

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "So, could Cavan happen to have to meet Antrim again? Or are counties that already have met in the championship proper, kept apart in the tilteen?

I'd fear for Cavan if they've to face Antrim, a second day out!"
In Round 1, prior meetings are kept apart I think (open to correction though), then it's an open draw. If there is to be a preliminary round, teams who reached a provincial semi final will not be drawn in that either. They will go to Round 1, and await any preliminary winners to join in then.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 13:20:34    2416494

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To my knowledge New York are playing all tailtean cup games in Ireland. Wonder if they drew London where would the match take place

TheDigger (USA) - Posts: 84 - 11/05/2022 14:34:31    2416523

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Replying To TheDigger:  "To my knowledge New York are playing all tailtean cup games in Ireland. Wonder if they drew London where would the match take place"
Yeah they are. That's under the guise of not making them travel too often from prelim round, or not making teams here travel to them. As per, I'd be thinking that the GAA is covering some travel cost. No idea about London, likely in London at home as it's this side of the pond.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 11/05/2022 14:53:43    2416527

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Replying To TheDigger:  "To my knowledge New York are playing all tailtean cup games in Ireland. Wonder if they drew London where would the match take place"
Will be played in London i believe.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 4071 - 11/05/2022 17:38:20    2416577

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Potentially it can be, but no doubt they have already completely messed this up, and it will take some turnaround to bring this back from the edge it is already at."
100% agree its messed up before it starts. Needs re-branding for 2023 if it has any hope.

3rdmidfielder (Australia) - Posts: 502 - 12/05/2022 09:09:52    2416615

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Anyone read Martin Brehenys comments in the Indo yesterday? Link here

Know he's not always everyone's cup of tea, but makes some very valid points. He discusses that cutoff lines drawn for each Championship Tier is too arbitrary. Solely going on League alone is not a viable way of doing it. He uses examples of Cavan versus likes of Louth and Limerick. Cavan have beaten multiple top 16 level teams last 5 years (many Division 1 mainstays too), while Louth and Limerick have never beaten any in the same period. Yet they drew the lines on league only, after 2 disrupted seasons, and didn't take any Championship form in account. And he is probably right in saying it doesn't necessarily need to be a 16 and 16 split. A 20 and 12 split would still have a competitive Sam, and the 12 below would be the teams who would be able to compete for Tailteann. And lets be honest: Cavan, Westmeath, or Tipp) if they drop down to it) would probably be beating the other teams out the gate anyway, so is this doing them any good anyway?

And I overall just have to agree. I saw many here mention that each county has tiered Championship from Senior, Intermediate, and Junior. But do these counties redraw them every year, and base them solely on League just gone? Don't think so. This Tailteann Cup and qualifying criteria needs a huge rethink if this is to be the success it needs to be. The right sides need to be in the right competition on a number of factors. Be it my suggestion of more equitable leagues, or a combination of League and Championship results over the last number of seasons.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 12/05/2022 11:06:45    2416641

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I do agree with the idea of a 20:12 split in the future. It's not going to happen overnight. The GAA has openly admitted that changes can be made.
With the 20:12 split, the Sam Maguire 20 can play in 4: groups of 5, 2 home games each.
The Tailteann 12 can play in 2 groups of 6. Rome wasn't built in a day! ;-)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 12/05/2022 11:52:50    2416654

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I do agree with the idea of a 20:12 split in the future. It's not going to happen overnight. The GAA has openly admitted that changes can be made.
With the 20:12 split, the Sam Maguire 20 can play in 4: groups of 5, 2 home games each.
The Tailteann 12 can play in 2 groups of 6. Rome wasn't built in a day! ;-)"
My god, we've finally reached a consensus on middle ground...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 12/05/2022 12:09:20    2416658

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I think that they should also bring the minor teams from these countys into it too
A least it would give theses weaker countys something to help develop their younger players
It would be a huge boost if one of those countys won a national title

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1488 - 12/05/2022 12:13:35    2416660

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I do agree with the idea of a 20:12 split in the future. It's not going to happen overnight. The GAA has openly admitted that changes can be made.
With the 20:12 split, the Sam Maguire 20 can play in 4: groups of 5, 2 home games each.
The Tailteann 12 can play in 2 groups of 6. Rome wasn't built in a day! ;-)"
They've made a right pigs ear out of this though. It needed to be got right the first time, and sometimes you don't get 2nd chances before people turn away from something and ignore it. A massive change like this needed to be right, and they've done anything but right in regards to this. Some of the errors are so basic. The type of errors that if you made in your own line of work, you'd be kicked off a project. They should still make changes to this year, and get rid of the geographic split.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2488 - 12/05/2022 12:16:10    2416661

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I think we need to get away from the 'its doomed it's doomed' rhetoric. Most people are capable of holding the two notions that... (1) this year they screwed up with the N-S split and no round robin and (2) next years format is the one we wanted and voted for... in their heads at the same time. This year will be lesson learning (mostly around marketing and promotion probably) and the competition proper starts next year. That is how I am looking at it. If you only ever got one specific go at anything or it's doomed, most things would never have succeeded.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 699 - 12/05/2022 13:13:09    2416678

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