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Longford GAA thread

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Replying To Clonbonnyrabbitt:  "Well if the bookeeping was right and no phantom point existed then you'd have Clonguish and Dromard level on 5 points and Clonguish ahead of them on head to head. So in reality Clonguish are well entitled to their place in the knockout stages. It was a fantastically entertaining group phase and really was a group of death its just a pity that this might overshadow all the good games that went before it"
Yes Clonguish are deservedly advancing based off Longford rules. However it's extremely rare that the criteria for teams ending on the same points would be judged off "score difference" from these 4 games rather than points obtained in total from the the 4 teams against each other. Remember these 4 teams form a mini championship by themselves when they all land on the same points.

My example means that on score difference between the 4 teams, remember it's only judged off these 4 teams, Clonguish would advance, but if it had been determined off "points obtained" from those 4 teams Points from the games against each other, Dromard would be through. The table would look like..

Mullinalaghta - 4 points
Carrickedmond - 3 points
Dromard - 3 points
Clonguish - 2 points

This is just an observation, and something for Longford GAA to consider changing in the future but the Clonguish Club, based on 'Longford ruling', are of course more than justified to advance. However, Score difference should never be used when more than 3 teams are level, always total points obtained from the games played between the teams involved should be used. It's an oversight on the Longford GAA bye laws.

WmeathWarrior (Westmeath) - Posts: 65 - 04/09/2024 08:32:27    2568339

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Replying To WmeathWarrior:  "Yes Clonguish are deservedly advancing based off Longford rules. However it's extremely rare that the criteria for teams ending on the same points would be judged off "score difference" from these 4 games rather than points obtained in total from the the 4 teams against each other. Remember these 4 teams form a mini championship by themselves when they all land on the same points.

My example means that on score difference between the 4 teams, remember it's only judged off these 4 teams, Clonguish would advance, but if it had been determined off "points obtained" from those 4 teams Points from the games against each other, Dromard would be through. The table would look like..

Mullinalaghta - 4 points
Carrickedmond - 3 points
Dromard - 3 points
Clonguish - 2 points

This is just an observation, and something for Longford GAA to consider changing in the future but the Clonguish Club, based on 'Longford ruling', are of course more than justified to advance. However, Score difference should never be used when more than 3 teams are level, always total points obtained from the games played between the teams involved should be used. It's an oversight on the Longford GAA bye laws."
That rule would only be brought in if one team beat the other 3 teams, which didn't happen.
That's when the score difference was brought in.
Reports I'm hearing now, is that the referee changed his report and Mullinalgahta have been awarded the win.
Dromard are through and Carrickedmond are out.
But I wouldn't say Carrick will go quietly!!

Q/F pairings
Killoe v Dromard
Abbeylara v Rathcline
Mullinalaghta v Granard
Clonguish v Colmcille

Frank74 (Longford) - Posts: 200 - 04/09/2024 10:10:13    2568358

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Longford Leader confirming this morning that Mullinalaghta have lodged an objection. This will all be sorted before the weekend I reckon and Mullinalaghta confirmed winner by a point. That will correct the quarters to...

1) Killoe vs Dromard
2) Mullinalaghta vs Granard
3) Colmcille vs Clonguish
4) Abbeylara vs Rathcline

10 days until the first quarter final, so it shouldn't really impact things.

Semis are then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3.

On we go and hopefully a review to follow later of how/why it happened to prevent re-occurrence.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 580 - 04/09/2024 11:04:31    2568378

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Longford Leader confirming this morning that Mullinalaghta have lodged an objection. This will all be sorted before the weekend I reckon and Mullinalaghta confirmed winner by a point. That will correct the quarters to...

1) Killoe vs Dromard
2) Mullinalaghta vs Granard
3) Colmcille vs Clonguish
4) Abbeylara vs Rathcline

10 days until the first quarter final, so it shouldn't really impact things.

Semis are then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3.

On we go and hopefully a review to follow later of how/why it happened to prevent re-occurrence."
Why would there be a review? The referee made a mistake. He's human like everyone else, even you, so we can't prevent re-occurrence of these kind of things. It's part and parcel of the game, it is just very unfortunate that one team is going to get hard done by.

liosbreac6265 (Longford) - Posts: 255 - 04/09/2024 11:27:08    2568381

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They can't just replay Mull and Carrick, when all other games are finished.
Both teams would know a draw would get both through and would shake hands on it beforehand.
What I suggest is run 2 championships. One with the standings of Carrick going through and one with the standings of Dromard going through.
The same with the relegation.
If the same team wins both championships, they are declared County Champions 2024.
If two different teams win either championship, they will play off in the Sudden Death County Final.
It would provide great games and great gates for our beloved CB!!
A win win situation.

Spinx (Longford) - Posts: 1345 - 04/09/2024 12:29:03    2568392

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Replying To liosbreac6265:  "Why would there be a review? The referee made a mistake. He's human like everyone else, even you, so we can't prevent re-occurrence of these kind of things. It's part and parcel of the game, it is just very unfortunate that one team is going to get hard done by."
Nobody has sight of the referee's report yet, so nobody knows whether this is a simple error or not yet. If the referee's report acknowledges the error, no issue. If it doesn't and the correction of the result is down solely to the Mullinalaghta objection coupled with the Clubber footage, then there needs to be a review because that signals a problem that will lead to re-occurrence.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 580 - 04/09/2024 13:15:14    2568402

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It truly is a worrying time for all concerned with Longford football matters. I trust that this debacle will be resolved soon with no issues.

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 04/09/2024 13:31:34    2568406

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Replying To liosbreac6265:  "Why would there be a review? The referee made a mistake. He's human like everyone else, even you, so we can't prevent re-occurrence of these kind of things. It's part and parcel of the game, it is just very unfortunate that one team is going to get hard done by."
Yes human error can happen all the time but the impact of this error impacts every team in the senior championship regardless of QF pairing or relegation pairings!! It should not happen in an Senior championship game with 1 Ref 2 Linesmen and 4 neural umpires, that is basically 7 officials at the game and only 1 person is keeping the score???

This has to be looked at on the future, human error cannot be an excuse!!

Garmin (Longford) - Posts: 96 - 04/09/2024 14:17:36    2568412

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Longford Leader confirming this morning that Mullinalaghta have lodged an objection. This will all be sorted before the weekend I reckon and Mullinalaghta confirmed winner by a point. That will correct the quarters to...

1) Killoe vs Dromard
2) Mullinalaghta vs Granard
3) Colmcille vs Clonguish
4) Abbeylara vs Rathcline

10 days until the first quarter final, so it shouldn't really impact things.

Semis are then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3.

On we go and hopefully a review to follow later of how/why it happened to prevent re-occurrence."
If the Mullinaughta appeal is successful, will Carrickedmond lodge a counter objection that they were playing to the referee's whistle. If they were a point behind (as it turned out there was) surely the referee would have allowed time for an equilizer. He played over 6 minutes anyhow.
This process could be a long drawn out affair.

B&G (Longford) - Posts: 366 - 04/09/2024 15:29:47    2568433

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Nobody has sight of the referee's report yet, so nobody knows whether this is a simple error or not yet. If the referee's report acknowledges the error, no issue. If it doesn't and the correction of the result is down solely to the Mullinalaghta objection coupled with the Clubber footage, then there needs to be a review because that signals a problem that will lead to re-occurrence."
The referee in question admitted he made an error.

maximus02 (Longford) - Posts: 211 - 04/09/2024 15:32:16    2568434

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Replying To WmeathWarrior:  "Yes Clonguish are deservedly advancing based off Longford rules. However it's extremely rare that the criteria for teams ending on the same points would be judged off "score difference" from these 4 games rather than points obtained in total from the the 4 teams against each other. Remember these 4 teams form a mini championship by themselves when they all land on the same points.

My example means that on score difference between the 4 teams, remember it's only judged off these 4 teams, Clonguish would advance, but if it had been determined off "points obtained" from those 4 teams Points from the games against each other, Dromard would be through. The table would look like..

Mullinalaghta - 4 points
Carrickedmond - 3 points
Dromard - 3 points
Clonguish - 2 points

This is just an observation, and something for Longford GAA to consider changing in the future but the Clonguish Club, based on 'Longford ruling', are of course more than justified to advance. However, Score difference should never be used when more than 3 teams are level, always total points obtained from the games played between the teams involved should be used. It's an oversight on the Longford GAA bye laws."
The reason it was decided that way is because of the national directive from the GAA. This caused controversy last year in other counties. However it is the rule nationwide so there is no chance of it changing. It is not a Longford bye law.

Clonbonnyrabbitt (Longford) - Posts: 40 - 04/09/2024 16:03:32    2568439

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Nobody has sight of the referee's report yet, so nobody knows whether this is a simple error or not yet. If the referee's report acknowledges the error, no issue. If it doesn't and the correction of the result is down solely to the Mullinalaghta objection coupled with the Clubber footage, then there needs to be a review because that signals a problem that will lead to re-occurrence."
It has to be an error unless you think it was deliberate?

liosbreac6265 (Longford) - Posts: 255 - 04/09/2024 16:25:49    2568442

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Replying To Clonbonnyrabbitt:  "The reason it was decided that way is because of the national directive from the GAA. This caused controversy last year in other counties. However it is the rule nationwide so there is no chance of it changing. It is not a Longford bye law."
Correct

eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1978 - 04/09/2024 16:40:28    2568446

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Replying To B&G:  "If the Mullinaughta appeal is successful, will Carrickedmond lodge a counter objection that they were playing to the referee's whistle. If they were a point behind (as it turned out there was) surely the referee would have allowed time for an equilizer. He played over 6 minutes anyhow.
This process could be a long drawn out affair."
Whether he might play for a draw is not the major issue. If you are Carrickedmond, you were playing for a draw on the basis of what the official in charge of the game told you the score was. The official providing you with the incorrect score has a massive effect on how you play out the last few minutes of the game. I don't think it can be ignored that he 'falsified' the score at half time, so it changed the course of the entire second half. If he just made the mistake at the end of the game, I don't think Carrickedmond could have any arguments.

GAALONGFORD (Longford) - Posts: 34 - 04/09/2024 17:46:23    2568460

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Replying To GAALONGFORD:  "Whether he might play for a draw is not the major issue. If you are Carrickedmond, you were playing for a draw on the basis of what the official in charge of the game told you the score was. The official providing you with the incorrect score has a massive effect on how you play out the last few minutes of the game. I don't think it can be ignored that he 'falsified' the score at half time, so it changed the course of the entire second half. If he just made the mistake at the end of the game, I don't think Carrickedmond could have any arguments."
You'd have to assume that Mullinalaghta are appealing on the basis that there can't be a replay. Why bother risking that possibility.

maximus02 (Longford) - Posts: 211 - 04/09/2024 18:07:06    2568467

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Replying To eoinog:  "Correct"
This is not correct. There was confusion last year because some counties opted to have their own method in their bye laws rather than follow the national guidelines. Look at the Longford GAA website, we have our own bye laws for determining standings in the event of three or more teams finishing level. This year's Leinster and Munster hurling championships would have been decided in a different manner to each other had this situation arisen

liosbreac6265 (Longford) - Posts: 255 - 04/09/2024 18:27:50    2568469

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The best way to solve this mess is to start the championship again

drunkensailor (Longford) - Posts: 83 - 04/09/2024 18:54:32    2568471

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Replying To maximus02:  "The referee in question admitted he made an error."
Source?

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 580 - 04/09/2024 19:13:43    2568474

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Replying To liosbreac6265:  "This is not correct. There was confusion last year because some counties opted to have their own method in their bye laws rather than follow the national guidelines. Look at the Longford GAA website, we have our own bye laws for determining standings in the event of three or more teams finishing level. This year's Leinster and Munster hurling championships would have been decided in a different manner to each other had this situation arisen"
If you go back to page 141 of this thread and look at this post from before the weekend, it quotes the National Code for this year 2024, which says that counties can use either those rules or define their own, which Longford has done.

I don't see where the talk of a replay has come from - this is a case of an incorrectly-tallied score by the referee in a group stage game (i.e. any individual game counts for the same in terms of points and qualification as any other) and there can only be two outcomes:

1. the referee's score is corrected
2. the referee's score stands

with either Dromard or Carrickedmond going through in each situation. Mullinalaghta qualify under either scenario, and the notion that, having already been disadvantaged by having a non-existent point given against them, they should then be further disadvantaged by having that guaranteed qualification put in jeopardy through a replay of a match that has already been played in full, is for the birds.

The circumstances of the Kildare game last month where there was a replay were entirely different (a winner-on-the-day match that was not completed as it should have been because of an incorrect score forestalling extra time being played).

And I suspect that hypotheticals about "if only we'd known" will not carry much weight in an appeals process; there's no guarantee, speaking from bitter experience, that going for a goal rather than a point will yield either.

TurnipAyter (Longford) - Posts: 161 - 05/09/2024 01:44:23    2568509

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Replying To liosbreac6265:  "This is not correct. There was confusion last year because some counties opted to have their own method in their bye laws rather than follow the national guidelines. Look at the Longford GAA website, we have our own bye laws for determining standings in the event of three or more teams finishing level. This year's Leinster and Munster hurling championships would have been decided in a different manner to each other had this situation arisen"
Maybe you are correct. Normally playing rules across the board are universal. A Co Boards website isn't always correct.

eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1978 - 05/09/2024 08:33:28    2568520

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