National Forum

Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


The best teams nearly or always win.This over psychic analyst of Mayo is a joke. Is there any player for them or any team that decides I am only going to put so much in and that is it.. These players put so much into an amateur sport. It is easy and mean spirited to jump on them when they lose a FINAL throwing another few boots into them.
It is 63 years since we won our last All-Ireland senior tittle. We have played in three since and lost all of them and numerous semi finals. Why ? Simple, WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Great players have played for us in those finals and to suggest that them or their team mates bottle it or don't have the guts to win is horrible. That is what this type of analysis is. Have you ever been in the dressing room after one of these losses?
No one has the god given right to win. Us included and what about the teams who never won an All-Ireland ? Should all of them be put into that boat ? Should they just quit ? Should Mayo quit because they might lose another final ? How egoistic to all of them couched in an annalistic assessment.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 14/09/2021 01:18:35    2380490

Link

Replying To fielder:  "I might be biased but I think you are 100% right. McGuinness turned a stag party into All Ireland Champions in 2012 and I put it largely down to his psychology background.

There is a huge mental block in Mayo. All this talk of it's different this year because there's a young team that never lost an AI is nonsense. They have already experienced an All Ireland final defeat now and it overall looked like the pressure was too much to handle on Sunday.

I hope they win it sometime, I feel sorry for their fans. But you never deserve an All Ireland until you do it on the big day."
It doesn't matter what manager they have they will never get over the line until they find two or three quality forwards no team down through the years has won an All Ireland without at least two or three.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 494 - 14/09/2021 06:48:22    2380493

Link

Replying To Sssthe:  "In 2017 andy moran won player of the year and O'connor set the single season scoring record. And daugherty had a good season forwards weren't the problem."
In 2017, Mayo dominated the first half after Con O'Callaghan's early goal, but only went in level or a point up, couldn't convert possession into scores, and at the end in injury time, O'Connor missed his free, while Dean Rock nailed his.
Cillian O'Connor also missed the free to draw the game at the end of the 2016 replay, Rock wouldn't have missed that.

Bosco98 (Galway) - Posts: 123 - 14/09/2021 09:44:42    2380517

Link

In most of the All Ireland finals Mayo were the underdog. Maybe slight favourites in 2012 against Donegal. They got off to a very bad start but played well in 2012.
On Saturday they never looked like winning.

The hype this year was maybe too much for their players. David Brady was Tweeting they had won before it was played

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2393 - 14/09/2021 10:02:28    2380524

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I suppose he'd prefer another go at the soccer, he didn't go for the Donegal job I suppose because himself and Declan are friends and Declan wanted anther go at it, in my opinion it was time for change but anyway we'll see how it goes next year.
We have Rochford on the Donegal management team too so there is plenty of experience and knowledge there but Jim just has that X factor, they are calling Peter Canavan's son jesus well McGuinness was the messiah for us and some of are waiting for the 2nd coming, might never happen though."
Id personally love to see him throw his hat back in there and make another emerging force outside of the top 2/3 teams. He's a great character who would lift any side and one that the GAA could do with keeping around. Obviously it's all down to his own plans but he clearly loves the game from a deep routed place, so there's always hope of a return.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 14/09/2021 10:10:26    2380530

Link

Replying To SaffronDon:  "Id personally love to see him throw his hat back in there and make another emerging force outside of the top 2/3 teams. He's a great character who would lift any side and one that the GAA could do with keeping around. Obviously it's all down to his own plans but he clearly loves the game from a deep routed place, so there's always hope of a return."
McGuinness won one All-Ireland, there must be 10 managers available with more success than him. He's most famous for dropping and falling out with his best player. That and other controversies of his own making got him in the news along with a silly song. People need to get over themselves about the great Jim. He's a one trick pony and that trick was soon found out and bettered. He wouldn't be fit to carry water to John O'Mahony or Sean Boylan even now.

Mailman98 (Galway) - Posts: 318 - 14/09/2021 10:29:55    2380532

Link

Replying To Mailman98:  "McGuinness won one All-Ireland, there must be 10 managers available with more success than him. He's most famous for dropping and falling out with his best player. That and other controversies of his own making got him in the news along with a silly song. People need to get over themselves about the great Jim. He's a one trick pony and that trick was soon found out and bettered. He wouldn't be fit to carry water to John O'Mahony or Sean Boylan even now."
You're a bitter bitter man Mailman, Jimmy's winning matches. Jimmy's winning games..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lj3_CoznGc

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1802 - 14/09/2021 10:37:56    2380535

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "We were schooled tactically by Tyrone. Too predictable. Attacked mostly from Cusack side of the pitch in the first half but had to work hard for scores. In contrast Tyrone created space for shots and they kicked some nice points. The penalty was our best goal chance, I think Ryan changed his mind on the runup. Tommy took his shot too early. That's inexperience, they didn't hide, they'll learn from it. Tyrone would have been happy enough giving chances to Aidan, Brian and Conor in the positions they were in, neither attempt had any real conviction or goal threat. If it was Aidan or Lee running on goal I'm convinced a Tyrone player would take either down if required. Ryan's free in before the penalty was for him fouled clinically as he made progeess goalwards. Second half we ran from deep but made little headway to scoring when we crossed the halfway line. In comparison both Tyrone goals were well worked. They could have had another in the first half when they had dragged the fullback line out the pitch to create space inside. In truth we never looked like winning. But we should have played a lot better on the day. For me the scoreboard didn't reflect the gap between then on Saturday."
I don't really buy the line that Tommy Conroy and Ryan O'Donoghue are young/inexperienced and will learn from it. Michael Murphy, Padraic Joyce, Con O'Callaghan, Colm Cooper, etc, all shaped and won all-irelands at a very early age.
I just don't think they're clinical enough at the highest level

Bosco98 (Galway) - Posts: 123 - 14/09/2021 10:37:57    2380536

Link

Replying To Mailman98:  "McGuinness won one All-Ireland, there must be 10 managers available with more success than him. He's most famous for dropping and falling out with his best player. That and other controversies of his own making got him in the news along with a silly song. People need to get over themselves about the great Jim. He's a one trick pony and that trick was soon found out and bettered. He wouldn't be fit to carry water to John O'Mahony or Sean Boylan even now."
You'll have to point out where I said he was the most successful manager? I think he's more famous for winning an AI with a group of party boys in the space of 18 months, an achievement unrivaled in that time frame. He dropped one of his best players and still managed to win the AI whether you agree with that decision or not it still worked well for him. You seem to have listed one or two controversies and tried to define him with that. You must not listen to him speak very often if you think he's a 'one trick pony' or that he was 'found out'. All I said was he would be a good fit for Mayo btw, I wasn't nominating him for manager of the century.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 14/09/2021 10:51:31    2380541

Link

I don't know of any manager that came in and took a team that were rated 19th in the country to the top and winning an All Ireland within 2 years and took us to the final again in his 4th year, a final we really threw away and should have won. Not many managers could have done that. He had the county board against him almost all the way through and still managed to do what he done.
Looks to me like Mayo really need an outside manager with no club baggage or loyalty to big name players to take them to the very top, county board politics is probably the same problem down there as up here though.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1802 - 14/09/2021 11:05:18    2380546

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't know of any manager that came in and took a team that were rated 19th in the country to the top and winning an All Ireland within 2 years and took us to the final again in his 4th year, a final we really threw away and should have won. Not many managers could have done that. He had the county board against him almost all the way through and still managed to do what he done.
Looks to me like Mayo really need an outside manager with no club baggage or loyalty to big name players to take them to the very top, county board politics is probably the same problem down there as up here though."
I think McGuiness's Donegal underachieved. Understandably (and from Rory's book) they spent too long concentrating on retiring the tyrone team from the 00's. They invested too much on staying on top of their neighbours instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Also the level of tackling and effort that Donegal dispensed over that 2/3 year period was not sustainable.

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 86 - 14/09/2021 11:18:17    2380557

Link

Replying To Mailman98:  "McGuinness won one All-Ireland, there must be 10 managers available with more success than him. He's most famous for dropping and falling out with his best player. That and other controversies of his own making got him in the news along with a silly song. People need to get over themselves about the great Jim. He's a one trick pony and that trick was soon found out and bettered. He wouldn't be fit to carry water to John O'Mahony or Sean Boylan even now."
Relax Mailman98, he was just making a point that he could be a good fit. Amazing how touchy people get about Jim McGuinness. Not his fault nearly every manager up and down the country copied his game plan.

fielder (Donegal) - Posts: 106 - 14/09/2021 11:54:06    2380564

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "This is nt a dig at Mayo or Ryan Ó Donoghue but his last free for me is ridiculous. Mayo needed 2 goals at that stage to salvage a draw and time was nearly up. He kicked it over bar so game over. Why? It's so silly. If he lobbed it in and Mayo got a goal the ref would probably have given Mayo one last chance after the kickout but when Ó Donoghue puts in over the bar Mayo still need 2 goals so he blows final whistle. Now I've seen other players do it too but it's crazy and just feels like they trying to notch another score for themselves instead of thinking of the team Now I know it's a long shot but at that stage one has to go for goal. It would be different if they were down 7 points or more but there was only 2 scores in it."
I was thinking similar myself when watching it.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1391 - 14/09/2021 12:22:52    2380571

Link

Replying To SaffronDon:  "Id personally love to see him throw his hat back in there and make another emerging force outside of the top 2/3 teams. He's a great character who would lift any side and one that the GAA could do with keeping around. Obviously it's all down to his own plans but he clearly loves the game from a deep routed place, so there's always hope of a return."
Is he definitely interested in a return to Gaelic football?
Donegal was a springboard for him to enter a career in soccer, granted he didn't quite cut it but that doesn't mean he's interested in returning to GAA.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 951 - 14/09/2021 12:36:53    2380579

Link

Replying To arock:  "Well said, its like losing works for them."
Absolutely ridiculous comment. How many Mayo people have told you they enjoy the losing? What is the matter with people like you?

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 493 - 14/09/2021 13:06:26    2380593

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Is he definitely interested in a return to Gaelic football?
Donegal was a springboard for him to enter a career in soccer, granted he didn't quite cut it but that doesn't mean he's interested in returning to GAA."
Never said he definitely was interested. I stated in another post that he'll probably stick to the soccer. But he is still about the GAA scene and obviously still has a passion for the game. I guess it'll still depend on what his own plans are...

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 14/09/2021 13:11:03    2380597

Link

Replying To conman1282:  "I think McGuiness's Donegal underachieved. Understandably (and from Rory's book) they spent too long concentrating on retiring the tyrone team from the 00's. They invested too much on staying on top of their neighbours instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Also the level of tackling and effort that Donegal dispensed over that 2/3 year period was not sustainable."
I get what your saying, but looking at the age profile of some of the core 2012 players (Colm McFadden, David Walsh, Christy Toye, Neil Gallagher, Rory Kavanagh, Karl Lacey, Frank McGlynn etc), I think they probably achieved quite a lot when you consider the sun was setting on some of their careers or injuries were a problem.

They definitely underachieved with Rory Gallagher 2015 - 2017, while i accept rebuilding was required, it could have been more seamless, he dumped/excluded players that Jim had been grooming to replace Lacey and McGlynn in the half back line (Declan Walsh & Leo McLoone) and was hell bent on Mark McHugh who was no longer at that level. They just couldn't get over the line at that point in Ulster or beyond.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 673 - 14/09/2021 13:29:32    2380601

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Is he definitely interested in a return to Gaelic football?
Donegal was a springboard for him to enter a career in soccer, granted he didn't quite cut it but that doesn't mean he's interested in returning to GAA."
No, I don't think he has any interest in returning to Gaelic Football, he seems fully focused on getting into professional soccer club management.

He is a fantastic manager, people thought he as a bit mad when had Donegal squad doing basic drills very early in his tenure, but as they progressed from league to Championship and the intensity levels increased, the strength of his Donegal team was how well they did those basics, the tackling, quick hand passing etc, it was all about efficiency and conditioning.

Tactically he is relentless, Donegal beating Dublin in 2014 was no accident, he probably spent all year analyzing Dublin and looking for weakness to exploit.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 673 - 14/09/2021 13:49:55    2380614

Link

Replying To lilylanger:  "I'm sorry but I'm so bored with everything being about Mayo. It's always the same story, how did Mayo lose again. Poor Mayo. The curse, the curse. There are more column inches devoted to Mayos loss than there are to Tyrones win. It's disgraceful really. This is no fault of the people of Mayo of course but there's part of me that believes they thrive on being everybody's second team and lap up the adulation and pity in equal measure. There's a lot to be said for being disliked, Dublin, Kerry and now Tyrone are all winners, all disliked. Tyrone were full value for their win and simply didn't allow Mayo play. They never looked like losing. Well done Tyrone. Back to back All Irelands is on."
'lap up the adulation and pity in equal measure' ............. jesus christ

You do all realise its the media controlling/pushing the narrative?

You do realise the fans of absolutely no say on what the newspapers print or how often they want to talk about Mayo?

Its easy print talking about the nearly men, easy easy print, hence why our team is taken up the column inches.

nicko94 (Mayo) - Posts: 53 - 14/09/2021 13:55:25    2380618

Link

Replying To Bon:  "I was thinking similar myself when watching it."
it was 2 mins over additional time, the whistle was always coming at that kickout

conman1282 (Tyrone) - Posts: 86 - 14/09/2021 13:55:29    2380619

Link