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Why Mayo Cant Win An All-Ireland

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Replying To cluichethar:  "I'm no fan of Brolly but 2 things can be correct. Brolly is a clown on most things but he was 100% right in his column."
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. That's Brolly in a nutshell for me.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 13/09/2021 16:42:07    2380331

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Replying To Sssthe:  "Tactically mayo got it right. They created more chances and better chances. They just missed them."
5 easy goal chances Mayo got and missed them all.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 357 - 13/09/2021 17:23:57    2380346

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Dare I say it, but Mayo need Jimmy McGuinness.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 13/09/2021 17:50:50    2380358

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Replying To jonjon:  "I'd probably agree with this tbh. Wasnt like they were obviously much better or anything, but if a few go in and we had Clarke in goal instead of Hennelly it's suddenly a different ball game and people are talking about a professional Mayo performance. But we didnt put them away and Hennelly was his usual undominant self under the high ball and we lost as per. We can only blame ourselves unfortunately."
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I'd agree with your agreement that "Tactically mayo got it right. They created more chances and better chances. They just missed them."
Tactics or otherwise they coulda/shoulda been at least 7 or 8 points up by the time RH gifted the opposition a goal. They had left a possible 4-5 (17) + behind at that stage. Everything else is noise.

Scoreboard is what matters. And thats why Tyrone are AI Champs today despite not scoring a point in the 2nd half till about the 60th minute. That shooting display wouldn't beat Roscommon as Mayo found out in the 2019 Connacht semi. It didnt make much difference then - it did Saturday.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 13/09/2021 17:56:24    2380359

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "The reason Mayo haven't won an AI in 70 years is quite simple. For most of those years, Mayo didn't get to the final. For the finals Mayo got to, they scored less than their opponents. When you score less than your opponents, you lose the game.

There's no point in over analyzing or adopting a psychological profiling of Mayo. They were not good enough on Saturday. Tyrone were. I'd love to see the day that Mayo are good enough on the day, and on that day, Mayo will score more than their opponents, and win the game.

Gaelic football is a simple amateur game. Keep it that way folks, and don't start believing that any one of you is Joe Brolly. He gets paid to write about amateur sportsmen. He has to have people reading his articles. That's why they're extreme and controversial.

None of you on here get paid for what you post. So, keep it simple. Because it is simple."
Winning isn't simple. If it was everybody would be at it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3341 - 13/09/2021 18:50:23    2380370

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I absolutely do not agree with Joe Brollys attack on AOS. Teams win matches . Individuals don't lose them. There was several other players who had off days and Horan chose to keep him on the pitch but there's no point pretending that it's not a problem that O Shea has never played well in any of the several All Irelands he has played in . He's a forward who has never scored in one. He needs to sort it out get a psychologist on board. AOS is a lad who gets plenty of money and freebies from being involved with the GAA so he can well afford to put the hand in the pocket to pay for it as captain he has extra responsibility to show up for the team and he didn't. And he shouldn't have been doing any photoshoots or promoting anything in the lead up to the final put the head down.

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1480 - 13/09/2021 19:53:30    2380395

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This is nt a dig at Mayo or Ryan Ó Donoghue but his last free for me is ridiculous. Mayo needed 2 goals at that stage to salvage a draw and time was nearly up. He kicked it over bar so game over. Why? It's so silly. If he lobbed it in and Mayo got a goal the ref would probably have given Mayo one last chance after the kickout but when Ó Donoghue puts in over the bar Mayo still need 2 goals so he blows final whistle. Now I've seen other players do it too but it's crazy and just feels like they trying to notch another score for themselves instead of thinking of the team Now I know it's a long shot but at that stage one has to go for goal. It would be different if they were down 7 points or more but there was only 2 scores in it.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2771 - 13/09/2021 20:16:24    2380404

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Their best team couldnt win because of the gaa piling a load of cash into dublin if you want to be real about it. Prior to that they were lucky to be in finals.
This subsequent team is quite young. They got beaten by a good team on the up. They were down a few big hitters though and could well beat tyrone next year. Doesnt mean they will win it next year though. It is important to remember though that it is a new team, therefore old losses arent really relevant to them, unless you are writing some rubbish piece a la brolly or whoever. In fairness to them, they were missing their scorer in chief. Would tyrone have won it if mccurry got injured? Or clifford for kerry? Or kilkenny for dublin? You have to keep a bit of perspective.

I think too much is made of this long losing streak thing. They were a non event for the 60s to the very late 80s. They only really starting contending consistantly after 2010. Yes they havent won one, but then who exactly has in that time? Dublin. Donegal. Kerry. And now Tyrone. They are hardly alone in not being able to win something.

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 64 - 13/09/2021 20:27:07    2380407

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I'm sorry but I'm so bored with everything being about Mayo. It's always the same story, how did Mayo lose again. Poor Mayo. The curse, the curse. There are more column inches devoted to Mayos loss than there are to Tyrones win. It's disgraceful really. This is no fault of the people of Mayo of course but there's part of me that believes they thrive on being everybody's second team and lap up the adulation and pity in equal measure. There's a lot to be said for being disliked, Dublin, Kerry and now Tyrone are all winners, all disliked. Tyrone were full value for their win and simply didn't allow Mayo play. They never looked like losing. Well done Tyrone. Back to back All Irelands is on.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 13/09/2021 20:36:33    2380412

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We were schooled tactically by Tyrone. Too predictable. Attacked mostly from Cusack side of the pitch in the first half but had to work hard for scores. In contrast Tyrone created space for shots and they kicked some nice points. The penalty was our best goal chance, I think Ryan changed his mind on the runup. Tommy took his shot too early. That's inexperience, they didn't hide, they'll learn from it. Tyrone would have been happy enough giving chances to Aidan, Brian and Conor in the positions they were in, neither attempt had any real conviction or goal threat. If it was Aidan or Lee running on goal I'm convinced a Tyrone player would take either down if required. Ryan's free in before the penalty was for him fouled clinically as he made progeess goalwards. Second half we ran from deep but made little headway to scoring when we crossed the halfway line. In comparison both Tyrone goals were well worked. They could have had another in the first half when they had dragged the fullback line out the pitch to create space inside. In truth we never looked like winning. But we should have played a lot better on the day. For me the scoreboard didn't reflect the gap between then on Saturday.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 13/09/2021 20:38:22    2380413

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "This is nt a dig at Mayo or Ryan Ó Donoghue but his last free for me is ridiculous. Mayo needed 2 goals at that stage to salvage a draw and time was nearly up. He kicked it over bar so game over. Why? It's so silly. If he lobbed it in and Mayo got a goal the ref would probably have given Mayo one last chance after the kickout but when Ó Donoghue puts in over the bar Mayo still need 2 goals so he blows final whistle. Now I've seen other players do it too but it's crazy and just feels like they trying to notch another score for themselves instead of thinking of the team Now I know it's a long shot but at that stage one has to go for goal. It would be different if they were down 7 points or more but there was only 2 scores in it."
It's something that's always puzzled me. Always worth a go at that stage. I recall one inter county player who did this when his team was only two points down and time up on the clock. Almost certain he never got the jersey again.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 313 - 13/09/2021 21:01:18    2380424

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This Mayo is a young team needs to be ditched pronto. The average age of their starting 15 on Saturday was 27 and only 3 are under the age of 25.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2588 - 13/09/2021 21:04:07    2380425

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Dare I say it, but Mayo need Jimmy McGuinness."
Donegal need him more tbh.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1802 - 13/09/2021 21:19:53    2380431

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "- From my reckoning since 2012 final they have played 7 finals (including 2016 replay) and conceded 12 goals and scored 3. If they had scored a few more and conceded a few less they would have won a few all irelands. So work on that.

- Killian O'connor is the leading scorer in championship football ever and was missing this year. Was it realistic to expect them to win the all ireland this year without him.

- Mayo got relegated last year and although they bounced back great this year it was still division 2 they played in and it makes a difference.

- This team is just not as good as the 2016/2017 vintage. I would have fancied that team against tyrone.

- I do think Mayo management has struggled with what to do with aidan o'shea but maybe even more so in 16 and 17. Don't think playing him differently in the final this year was going to affect the result. Though maybe it would have in other finals. In his pomp he added real physicality and helped control the tempo of the game. He's a big man and woukd imagine he just gets tired so sub him with 15 mins to go.

- I like listening to the paddy and Andy podcast and Andy moran is very likeable though I find it strange they he reckons the 2012 final is the one that got away. They lost that match by 4 points and never really looked like winning it. They lost 13, 16 and 17 by a combined total of 3 points and with a replay stuck in there and still 2012 is the one that got away. Did they really believe they could beat Dublin in them years? They should have managed to get over the line in one of them games."
Completely agree with you about 2012, Donegal had the air of champions all that year and were in control of the final throughout. Never looked like losing.

For Mayo I think the drawn game in 2016 is a game they bossed and were much better than Dublin but still needed an equaliser at the end somehow.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13405 - 13/09/2021 21:25:57    2380434

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Replying To lilylanger:  "I'm sorry but I'm so bored with everything being about Mayo. It's always the same story, how did Mayo lose again. Poor Mayo. The curse, the curse. There are more column inches devoted to Mayos loss than there are to Tyrones win. It's disgraceful really. This is no fault of the people of Mayo of course but there's part of me that believes they thrive on being everybody's second team and lap up the adulation and pity in equal measure. There's a lot to be said for being disliked, Dublin, Kerry and now Tyrone are all winners, all disliked. Tyrone were full value for their win and simply didn't allow Mayo play. They never looked like losing. Well done Tyrone. Back to back All Irelands is on."
I don't dislike Tyrone. I never have. They played well and fought like dogs to turnover Mayo when they and possesion. Played with passion

Deserving champions

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1480 - 13/09/2021 21:29:35    2380436

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Dare I say it, but Mayo need Jimmy McGuinness."
I might be biased but I think you are 100% right. McGuinness turned a stag party into All Ireland Champions in 2012 and I put it largely down to his psychology background.

There is a huge mental block in Mayo. All this talk of it's different this year because there's a young team that never lost an AI is nonsense. They have already experienced an All Ireland final defeat now and it overall looked like the pressure was too much to handle on Sunday.

I hope they win it sometime, I feel sorry for their fans. But you never deserve an All Ireland until you do it on the big day.

fielder (Donegal) - Posts: 106 - 13/09/2021 22:15:31    2380452

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Donegal need him more tbh."
Any idea what his plans are? I'd imagine he'll stick to the soccer but timing is everything in coaching I suppose. He's still about the GAA scene with Sky etc.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 13/09/2021 22:19:03    2380455

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Replying To fielder:  "I might be biased but I think you are 100% right. McGuinness turned a stag party into All Ireland Champions in 2012 and I put it largely down to his psychology background.

There is a huge mental block in Mayo. All this talk of it's different this year because there's a young team that never lost an AI is nonsense. They have already experienced an All Ireland final defeat now and it overall looked like the pressure was too much to handle on Sunday.

I hope they win it sometime, I feel sorry for their fans. But you never deserve an All Ireland until you do it on the big day."
Thats what I was thinking, there wouldn't be too many, if any, better at the psychological aspect of the game than Jimmy and its clear that it would be a great starting point with this Mayo team.

He's also renowned for getting the individual match ups right which Mayo have struggled with in finals. Listening to him speak in the studio or in his articles its clear he knows the tactical side of this current era very well too. I dont think Mayo would need to worry about him reverting to any blanket defences either. Obviously it would come down to the appetite of both Jimmy and Mayo for it to happen but in my opinion Mayo would hit a home run if it some how happened.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2276 - 13/09/2021 22:40:51    2380464

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Any idea what his plans are? I'd imagine he'll stick to the soccer but timing is everything in coaching I suppose. He's still about the GAA scene with Sky etc."
I suppose he'd prefer another go at the soccer, he didn't go for the Donegal job I suppose because himself and Declan are friends and Declan wanted anther go at it, in my opinion it was time for change but anyway we'll see how it goes next year.
We have Rochford on the Donegal management team too so there is plenty of experience and knowledge there but Jim just has that X factor, they are calling Peter Canavan's son jesus well McGuinness was the messiah for us and some of are waiting for the 2nd coming, might never happen though.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1802 - 13/09/2021 22:47:24    2380470

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Replying To lilylanger:  "I'm sorry but I'm so bored with everything being about Mayo. It's always the same story, how did Mayo lose again. Poor Mayo. The curse, the curse. There are more column inches devoted to Mayos loss than there are to Tyrones win. It's disgraceful really. This is no fault of the people of Mayo of course but there's part of me that believes they thrive on being everybody's second team and lap up the adulation and pity in equal measure. There's a lot to be said for being disliked, Dublin, Kerry and now Tyrone are all winners, all disliked. Tyrone were full value for their win and simply didn't allow Mayo play. They never looked like losing. Well done Tyrone. Back to back All Irelands is on."
Well said, its like losing works for them.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4732 - 13/09/2021 23:05:22    2380479

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