National Forum

Future Of Leinster Championship

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To maroondiesel:  "Too many great Dublin players have to sit on the bench or do not make the panel at all. Let them join other counties voluntarily. This could spice up the Louth's, Wiclkows, KIldares etc. And let the 2 Meaths become one superpower."
I suggested this a few years back. The idea being lads in Dublin could declare for their parents/grand-parents county of origin. I also suggested that any player would have to give his adopted county a commitment for at least two seasons. I mentioned to a GAA man from Wicklow.....well, he wasn't having any of it. His argument was that you could have 10 to 12 southside Dubs drafted into a Wicklow team with only 5 to 7 true Wicklow men lining out, and that would do nothing for all those who train with the county squad year after year, only to be replaced with blow-ins! His solution was financial investment in the weaker counties, and of course splitting Dublin in four (not the usual two). It's your population advantage, he said

All very well, I pointed out, if investment was the only problem, how come Mayo have yet to win an All-Ireland, and if population was an issue, I joked; Then London and New York should be competing for All-Ireland titles every year too! ....I don't think he saw the joke!!

PatdeB16 (Dublin) - Posts: 9 - 24/11/2020 14:12:16    2314694

Link

Replying To jimbodub:  "In talking about Dublin's dominance of Leinster

It is important to remember that a very average Dubs side, a side incapable of beating a team outside of Leinster was still good enough to win a 5 in a row in 05,06,07,08,09

That's dream land stuff for most

Yet a poor Dublin outfit did it in Leinster.. that speaks volumes

Leinster's problems go way back

Historically Kildare have never been up to much

Leinsters true competitive edge died with the downfall of Meath and there's an awful lot more at play there than the big bad Dubs as the Meath lads know very well..."
I think we have to get away from the big bad Dubs mentality though jimbo and stop viewing this as us v them.

I think we would all like a competitive Leinster championship again but it looks increadingly likely that, that isn't going to happen if things remain the same.

For me the Gaa needs to either treat the Leinster championship as an emergency situation that needs immediate and meaningful change or scrap it altogether if they don't care. But the pointless annual turkey shoot is doing nobody any good.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/11/2020 14:13:43    2314696

Link

I sadly believe that if it comes down to Dublin v the rest of the country the GAA top brass will back the Dubs every time. Dublin bring in a lot of revenue, the population is there and the hierarchy won't want to disrupt or annoy their cash cow. I honestly think Croke Park will plough on regardless and take the other counties for granted. If there's sufficient funding coming in from Dublin to fund their salaries and keep their expenses rolling in the GAA will be happy to carry on. They can't and won't do anything to anger Dublin or threaten their own positions. If it means the Leinster Championship falls by the wayside and the All Ireland remains the annual Dublin Coronation then so be it. They'll throw a few crumbs and baubles from the top table every so often but it'll be a case of "Stop whinging, isn't Dublin's success wonderful for us all".

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9525 - 24/11/2020 16:14:40    2314774

Link

Replying To Ulsterman:  "I sadly believe that if it comes down to Dublin v the rest of the country the GAA top brass will back the Dubs every time. Dublin bring in a lot of revenue, the population is there and the hierarchy won't want to disrupt or annoy their cash cow. I honestly think Croke Park will plough on regardless and take the other counties for granted. If there's sufficient funding coming in from Dublin to fund their salaries and keep their expenses rolling in the GAA will be happy to carry on. They can't and won't do anything to anger Dublin or threaten their own positions. If it means the Leinster Championship falls by the wayside and the All Ireland remains the annual Dublin Coronation then so be it. They'll throw a few crumbs and baubles from the top table every so often but it'll be a case of "Stop whinging, isn't Dublin's success wonderful for us all"."
Sadly, I concur with your negative outlook on the reality we are facing on the future of the Leinster C'ship

Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 197 - 24/11/2020 16:46:32    2314792

Link

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2020/11/23/local-footballers-open-letter-on-the-leinster-football-championship/?fbclid=IwAR1YGQ5jaR6KlS_-Vl7lvHQCDJI7d4UHju_xvPYlsp3SG3skbRPpDu4WSZk
Worth a read

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 942 - 24/11/2020 18:10:46    2314846

Link

Replying To Ulsterman:  "I sadly believe that if it comes down to Dublin v the rest of the country the GAA top brass will back the Dubs every time. Dublin bring in a lot of revenue, the population is there and the hierarchy won't want to disrupt or annoy their cash cow. I honestly think Croke Park will plough on regardless and take the other counties for granted. If there's sufficient funding coming in from Dublin to fund their salaries and keep their expenses rolling in the GAA will be happy to carry on. They can't and won't do anything to anger Dublin or threaten their own positions. If it means the Leinster Championship falls by the wayside and the All Ireland remains the annual Dublin Coronation then so be it. They'll throw a few crumbs and baubles from the top table every so often but it'll be a case of "Stop whinging, isn't Dublin's success wonderful for us all"."
You are absolutely right, they won't change ..... unless backed into a corner. A championship needs other teams to compete for it to be a championship and there is nothing HQ fears more than the loss of revenue a boycott would incur. No gate receipts, no money from Sky or GAAGO. You saw what happened in Newbridge or Nowhere, they backed down fairly quickly there and they will again. The power lies with the counties, whether or not they have the moral courage to boycott is another matter.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 24/11/2020 18:28:39    2314863

Link

Outside of Leinster how many all Ireland's in a row is the cut off? Mayo are getting further away, as are Tyrone, Donegal are a long way off 2014 and the minor success of Kerry is a false hope if they can't beat Dublin with 15 against 14 just imagine what 15 Dubs would do to Kerry. Galway Monaghan et al, no hope!
At least you can look forward to a meaningful competition in your province, the players have something to aim for.
Next year isn't far away before the semi finals are played this year you won't get long odds on 7 in a row next year. How exciting.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 251 - 24/11/2020 19:52:54    2314928

Link

Replying To greysoil:  "https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2020/11/23/local-footballers-open-letter-on-the-leinster-football-championship/?fbclid=IwAR1YGQ5jaR6KlS_-Vl7lvHQCDJI7d4UHju_xvPYlsp3SG3skbRPpDu4WSZk
Worth a read"
Is it just me or is that a bit cringe?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 24/11/2020 19:56:23    2314930

Link

Replying To Daith:  "You are absolutely right, they won't change ..... unless backed into a corner. A championship needs other teams to compete for it to be a championship and there is nothing HQ fears more than the loss of revenue a boycott would incur. No gate receipts, no money from Sky or GAAGO. You saw what happened in Newbridge or Nowhere, they backed down fairly quickly there and they will again. The power lies with the counties, whether or not they have the moral courage to boycott is another matter."
That awkward moment when your county boycotts and isn't missed.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 24/11/2020 20:08:42    2314937

Link

Replying To Daith:  "You are absolutely right, they won't change ..... unless backed into a corner. A championship needs other teams to compete for it to be a championship and there is nothing HQ fears more than the loss of revenue a boycott would incur. No gate receipts, no money from Sky or GAAGO. You saw what happened in Newbridge or Nowhere, they backed down fairly quickly there and they will again. The power lies with the counties, whether or not they have the moral courage to boycott is another matter."
I agree. Yes the gaa will back up Dublin but its because they are the cash cow. However I think its unfair on the Dublin team. Its like the favourite child. The gaa is a business after all and they ain't gonna kill the golden goose. When Kerry were the kingpins in the late 70 s early 80s the handpass score was allowed. Kerry perfected so well they were destroying teams like Dublin and the gaa banned the handpass to curb Kerry. We were not a cash cow though. The gaa don't care if Dublin win or lose but they do want them at the top table. Now alot of this is turning other counties against Dublin which is wrong. I have said this before but its not the players or supporters fault. Is Croker an advantage? Of course but its the biggest stadium so no matter what when the crowds are back the finals will have to be played there. Can they sleep in their own beds before big games? Another advantage. Maybe the gaa should make them stay in a hotel in Cork the night before big games in Croker lol. What I'm trying to say is yes they do gave advantages but it's not down to the players etc. Sometimes we forget the biggest advantage they have over all of us is they are a bloody good team that play the game the best way possible.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3037 - 24/11/2020 20:21:24    2314941

Link

If the GAA had wanted more then one team representing Dublin what would have been the plan?

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 618 - 24/11/2020 20:24:25    2314944

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I agree. Yes the gaa will back up Dublin but its because they are the cash cow. However I think its unfair on the Dublin team. Its like the favourite child. The gaa is a business after all and they ain't gonna kill the golden goose. When Kerry were the kingpins in the late 70 s early 80s the handpass score was allowed. Kerry perfected so well they were destroying teams like Dublin and the gaa banned the handpass to curb Kerry. We were not a cash cow though. The gaa don't care if Dublin win or lose but they do want them at the top table. Now alot of this is turning other counties against Dublin which is wrong. I have said this before but its not the players or supporters fault. Is Croker an advantage? Of course but its the biggest stadium so no matter what when the crowds are back the finals will have to be played there. Can they sleep in their own beds before big games? Another advantage. Maybe the gaa should make them stay in a hotel in Cork the night before big games in Croker lol. What I'm trying to say is yes they do gave advantages but it's not down to the players etc. Sometimes we forget the biggest advantage they have over all of us is they are a bloody good team that play the game the best way possible."
You'd be surprised at the amount of players from other counties who live in walking distance of Drumcondra, I was at a BBQ precovid of a prominent county footballer (non Dub) who played in many All Ireland finals who had just moved in in Drumcondra.

Mad thing is they often aren't allowed to stay at home before a game, often stay the night in the hotel to be with the team.

Yet same player isn't playing at home. I'm also thinking of a few teams, who go on the raz once knocked out in Dublin because the majority of the players are living up here.

If Dublin are at home in Croker, many are very familiar with it and have set up camp in Dublin, it's like if I was living in Castlebar, would I feel unfamiliar with McHale probably not.

When you look at Leinster teams in particular a huge deal is made about playing away, the Newbridge or No where stuff. Personally I find it very hypocritical, Kildare were content to play all their games under Micko in Croker as were Meath during their successful years, the last time they got to a final All their games were played in Croker. I think that was unfair in the same vein that Dublin should play more games outside Croker, that's why I can't take the Leinster stuff seriously, Kildare and Meath did the same thing and have short memories.

The other piece that relates to Leinster, is for Kildare and Meath in particular, their are parts of Kildare and Meath that you would be Croker quicker then parts of Dublin, playing away - I don't really think so, both counties empty 9-5 Mon - Fri and fill Dublin.

But I agree with your point of view in general, the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park, it's a massive money spinner. I'd personally prefer more away games, I think the players would to. But premium seats, corporate boxes, hospitality, gate receipts are all sold with the Dublin market and this Dublin team on the ticket.

If our country cousins in Leinster are going to boycott, I'd encourage them to do it so we can have more away games, their funds might be cut annually, but I think everyone would like more Dublin games outside of Croker.

Not sure the Leinster counties & council or GAA for that mater have the bottle though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 24/11/2020 20:48:55    2314962

Link

Replying To Daith:  "You are absolutely right, they won't change ..... unless backed into a corner. A championship needs other teams to compete for it to be a championship and there is nothing HQ fears more than the loss of revenue a boycott would incur. No gate receipts, no money from Sky or GAAGO. You saw what happened in Newbridge or Nowhere, they backed down fairly quickly there and they will again. The power lies with the counties, whether or not they have the moral courage to boycott is another matter."
To be honest I think attitudes may change for a lot of people, Dublin people included, in the next year or 2 regarding current state of football if things keep going this way (which I think they probably will). Having an All Ireland semi final where one team is 1/100 odds is not good. I would hazard a guess that Dublin are almost certainly odds on at this stage to win 7 in a row also and short odds for 8 in a row.
People are becoming more aware that the football championship (not just the Leinster championship) could be become untenable (2 WhatsApp groups I am in, one which has nothing to do with GAA had the former Westmeath players letter posted on them today).
I think appetite for change will grow, even in Dublin, in the next year or so if, as looks likely Dublin win 6 and then 7 in a row. Player interest even in a county like Kerry will start to wane if things keep going this way.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1060 - 24/11/2020 20:53:28    2314965

Link

Replying To brisbane:  "If the GAA had wanted more then one team representing Dublin what would have been the plan?"
It was a plan that originated in the early oo s. I don't know but think they were thinking about northside southside teams. Now I would nt like Dublin to be split nor would the dubs ever allow it either. However I would love to try a new concept for league football only. Let a few teams enter B teams into a division 5 in the league. Counties like Kerry Dublin Cork etc and if promoted work their way up the divisions. It would give more players chances to play with their counties and would nt it be great to see a B team get up to division level. In some counties this happens with b teams.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3037 - 24/11/2020 20:53:49    2314967

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Is it just me or is that a bit cringe?"
Extraordinarily so. The sentiment is spot on but delivering it on social media was done for likes.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 24/11/2020 21:04:28    2314973

Link

There will have to be rule changes to make the game less biased towards teams who have the best athletic ability. Mark a line 40 yards from the goal and have a rule that the kickout has to go 40 yards otherwise throw in by ref at the forty.All kickouts from the edge of the square. This will bring back the midfield battle and mean that counties with 2 big midfielders can compete.Going back inside your 40 with the ball should result in free in. also revert back to the 3 sub rule. The above would be a start on what needs to be done. The Dubs are basically selecting the best athletes and running teams into the ground currently.

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 24/11/2020 21:30:39    2314989

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "It was a plan that originated in the early oo s. I don't know but think they were thinking about northside southside teams. Now I would nt like Dublin to be split nor would the dubs ever allow it either. However I would love to try a new concept for league football only. Let a few teams enter B teams into a division 5 in the league. Counties like Kerry Dublin Cork etc and if promoted work their way up the divisions. It would give more players chances to play with their counties and would nt it be great to see a B team get up to division level. In some counties this happens with b teams."
If Dublin are to be split now we would most likely be looking at the current administrative counties that replaced the traditional county Dublin for local government in the 1990's (Fingal/ Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown/ South Dublin are actually counties now where as dividing Dublin into north and south would not be based on actual counties). Only thing about this is what you would do with the city council area ?.
Originally the GAA got the idea if having a county championship from the local government county boundaries of the time.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1060 - 24/11/2020 21:37:21    2314994

Link

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/the-throw-in/if-dublin-were-in-any-other-province-they-would-probably-be-doing-the-same-39787010.html

Interesing views from tony considine.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 24/11/2020 21:52:23    2315007

Link

I think people are getting a bit carried away. I don't think the Leinster final was a true reflection of Leinster football. Firstly it's a one off game and Meaths kick out left them no chance. Kildare and Meath have made it to the super 8 and division 1 and had success at underage. Which shows improvement. It's unfair to judge the progress and state of football in the province on the one game a year when you play against the Dubs.

Meath and Kildare have been making steady progress over the last 4 /5 years. Yes Dublin has a big advantage in population and funding and the GAA have done brilliant in developing the game there and they were right. But a big factor is the evolution of the game in recent years such as defensive set up and the possession game. Kildare and Meath are still catching up in this department. And this has probably lead more to Dublin's domination then anything else but this will eventually right it's self.

I do think the sponsorship money Dublin are developing should be divided out to other counties. With the huge amounts becoming available to them it should be controlled centrally.

Pharmstrong (Kildare) - Posts: 29 - 24/11/2020 21:57:24    2315010

Link

Replying To TheUsername:  "You'd be surprised at the amount of players from other counties who live in walking distance of Drumcondra, I was at a BBQ precovid of a prominent county footballer (non Dub) who played in many All Ireland finals who had just moved in in Drumcondra.

Mad thing is they often aren't allowed to stay at home before a game, often stay the night in the hotel to be with the team.

Yet same player isn't playing at home. I'm also thinking of a few teams, who go on the raz once knocked out in Dublin because the majority of the players are living up here.

If Dublin are at home in Croker, many are very familiar with it and have set up camp in Dublin, it's like if I was living in Castlebar, would I feel unfamiliar with McHale probably not.

When you look at Leinster teams in particular a huge deal is made about playing away, the Newbridge or No where stuff. Personally I find it very hypocritical, Kildare were content to play all their games under Micko in Croker as were Meath during their successful years, the last time they got to a final All their games were played in Croker. I think that was unfair in the same vein that Dublin should play more games outside Croker, that's why I can't take the Leinster stuff seriously, Kildare and Meath did the same thing and have short memories.

The other piece that relates to Leinster, is for Kildare and Meath in particular, their are parts of Kildare and Meath that you would be Croker quicker then parts of Dublin, playing away - I don't really think so, both counties empty 9-5 Mon - Fri and fill Dublin.

But I agree with your point of view in general, the GAA want Dublin in Croke Park, it's a massive money spinner. I'd personally prefer more away games, I think the players would to. But premium seats, corporate boxes, hospitality, gate receipts are all sold with the Dublin market and this Dublin team on the ticket.

If our country cousins in Leinster are going to boycott, I'd encourage them to do it so we can have more away games, their funds might be cut annually, but I think everyone would like more Dublin games outside of Croker.

Not sure the Leinster counties & council or GAA for that mater have the bottle though."
Very well put together Username. I know where you ré coming from with Kildare alright. Croke lark was like a home venue for them in Micko s time but I do get the "Newbridge or nowhere" thing. Mayo had become very familiar with Croker and much more so than Kildare and it would have been advantagous to Mayo more so than Kildare. Also I think they were upset the way the gaa promised them home venue if they came out of hat first but then tried to bully them. You are also right about the funds being cut. Actually when Donegal objected about the super 8 s that's why it was voted to let Dubs play in Croker and the extra money would be given to counties like Antrim etc. On the corporate and premium the big companies just give the tickets to clients etc but not sure it matters who is playing although the more events and games the better. I think we will see Dublin out of Croker more often from now on but people might feel different when the takings are down. As the old saying goes be careful what you wish for.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3037 - 24/11/2020 22:03:53    2315016

Link