National Forum

Future Of Leinster Championship

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An absolute shambles again tonight, as it has been for years now. The game is dead in 11 counties in Leinster. At what stage do the GAA address this? At what stage do the most deluded fans who claim they are GAA people recognise their 10 in a row Leinsters and 6 in a row all irelands mean very little. Population, x 16 funding, x 20 times the sponsorship, centres of excellence and stadium provided free of charge , but Dubs will still tell the rest of us we have to get our act together.

I honestly can't see why any county honours any fixture against Dublin. What was the point in Meath turning up tonight for example?

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1164 - 21/11/2020 22:42:36    2312396

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2010 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Semi Final.

2001 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Final.

If Dublin were in another province would the above statistics be different?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13411 - 22/11/2020 00:07:36    2312431

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Replying To Daith:  "An absolute shambles again tonight, as it has been for years now. The game is dead in 11 counties in Leinster. At what stage do the GAA address this? At what stage do the most deluded fans who claim they are GAA people recognise their 10 in a row Leinsters and 6 in a row all irelands mean very little. Population, x 16 funding, x 20 times the sponsorship, centres of excellence and stadium provided free of charge , but Dubs will still tell the rest of us we have to get our act together.

I honestly can't see why any county honours any fixture against Dublin. What was the point in Meath turning up tonight for example?"
The GAA considers Dublin the blueprint for other counties so let's take a look at what that means. They have 54 Games Promotion officers, 3 regional development officers, 1 hurling officer, and 1 football officer. Every club has a GDA and some of have 2. I'll use Louth as an example. They would need 5 GPAs, 1 RDO for North Leinster (Louth, Meath, Longford, and Westmeath). Probably 2 to cover both codes. Every county needs their own development officer in each code. There are over 30 clubs in Louth so a GDA for each. Although, some rural clubs could share a GDA.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 472 - 22/11/2020 00:38:07    2312444

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Replying To MesAmis:  "2010 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Semi Final.

2001 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Final.

If Dublin were in another province would the above statistics be different?"
You're dead right it wouldn't matter what province they're in Dublin have won 5 in a row so why wouldn't they win every other province every year also. Don't cod yourselves
It's not the dubs fault but one third of the population live there
Something has to give
It's scary to think Meath are the 2nd best team in Leinster so I don't know what the answer is
They could win 10 and maybe more

runnerin (Meath) - Posts: 196 - 22/11/2020 01:12:53    2312457

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Replying To MesAmis:  "2010 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Semi Final.

2001 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Final.

If Dublin were in another province would the above statistics be different?"
Yup, the problem runs a lot deeper than just Dublin.

Meath are the 2nd best team in Leinster, and most people would agree that Kildare are the 3rd best. Meath reached the AI QFs last year, and Kildare the year before. They're also to my knowledge the only 2 Leinster counties (other than Dublin) to reach the AI SFs since the qualifiers started.

After those teams though the dropoff is stark. Who else in the province can anyone picture reaching the QFs? Laois have been consistent Leinster Semi Finalists in recent years but have been anonymous at AI level. Longford? Westmeath? Louth? Offaly? Not a chance. The last Leinster team other than Kildare to string together just 2 or 3 qualifier wins to reach round 4 of the qualifiers was Laois in 2013.

Take Dublin out of Leinster and there'll be 3 fewer hammerings, but it'll bring no overall improvement to the quality of Leinster teams.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1489 - 22/11/2020 02:21:57    2312460

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Replying To MesAmis:  "2010 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Semi Final.

2001 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Final.

If Dublin were in another province would the above statistics be different?"
I think they would have. If you win Leinster, you've obviously an easier route. Lot of quarter finals reached in last 10 years. Also, so many players stepped off panels or didn't join panel due to Dublin dominance and it being a waste of time, in Meath and Kildare at least.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1120 - 22/11/2020 06:04:01    2312471

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This is why we need a second tier football competition again. It enables teams to build up some confidence and momentum. I'll never understand counties reluctance to do so, especially when they are at nothing in the championship propper.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1417 - 22/11/2020 08:33:07    2312493

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Replying To MesAmis:  "2010 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Semi Final.

2001 was the last year a Leinster team other than Dublin reached an All-Ireland Final.

If Dublin were in another province would the above statistics be different?"
I don't know exactly what the statistics would be Mes but if you uprooted Dublin and planted them in any other province the Dubs would winbit every year and the general standards would go down everywhere else.

I think Leinster teams get a lot of unfair stick (and some fair of course) for being so hapless these days but when one team is so far ahead of the rest, teams naturally lose interest.

How did we go from a seriously competitive Leinster champsionship to a turkey shoot in the last decade, is it completely the fault of the other 10 teams or is something else at play?

Now I know over the last few years the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal etc have given Dublin great games but they're well away from dublin until the latter stages of the championship. They're battle hardened and in Connacht and Ulster they're still playing for very competitive provincial honours.

But here's the thing, even after all they, they still can't beat the Dubs!!

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 22/11/2020 08:54:51    2312498

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Leinster has no future if teams go about how Meath performed last night.

They didn't lay a glove on Dublin.

That was the worst Meath performance I've ever witnessed, and it can be dressed up all it wants with the usual stuff, but Meath simply were shockingly poor and for me they totally collapsed.

It was a non performance.

Some serious questions have to be asked regarding their own application to the game,

Dubs bring what they always bring and you'd have to question how Meath applied themselves to the challenge.

Meath went into a game against Dublin with no kick out strategy. On Dublin's kick out they pushed right up leaving huge space in behind to one of the best players in the country to be left unmarked.. ahh here I could be here all day.. not one hard meaningful challenge..

There are much better teams to Meath out there that has been proven in the AI series. Teams with less or similar populations to Meath and all that stuff that haven't collapsed in such an extraordinary way

Dublin go into that knowing full well that last night's game was a joke.

Everyone and their dog knew Dublin would probably be in a semifinal this year, but not many saw it being that easy and expected a far better Meath performance. That in itself was the problem, Meath provided a non performance and that applies on the pitch and sideline.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20342 - 22/11/2020 09:13:11    2312504

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Replying To Bon:  "This is why we need a second tier football competition again. It enables teams to build up some confidence and momentum. I'll never understand counties reluctance to do so, especially when they are at nothing in the championship propper."
In most seasons Meath would be in a top tier championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3658 - 22/11/2020 09:24:03    2312510

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Replying To runnerin:  "You're dead right it wouldn't matter what province they're in Dublin have won 5 in a row so why wouldn't they win every other province every year also. Don't cod yourselves
It's not the dubs fault but one third of the population live there
Something has to give
It's scary to think Meath are the 2nd best team in Leinster so I don't know what the answer is
They could win 10 and maybe more"
Fingers crossed. So long as provincial championships remain in place I want us to keep winning them. Can never win enough. Never gets boring.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13617 - 22/11/2020 09:33:45    2312518

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Replying To Htaem:  "I don't know exactly what the statistics would be Mes but if you uprooted Dublin and planted them in any other province the Dubs would winbit every year and the general standards would go down everywhere else.

I think Leinster teams get a lot of unfair stick (and some fair of course) for being so hapless these days but when one team is so far ahead of the rest, teams naturally lose interest.

How did we go from a seriously competitive Leinster champsionship to a turkey shoot in the last decade, is it completely the fault of the other 10 teams or is something else at play?

Now I know over the last few years the likes of Kerry, Mayo and Donegal etc have given Dublin great games but they're well away from dublin until the latter stages of the championship. They're battle hardened and in Connacht and Ulster they're still playing for very competitive provincial honours.

But here's the thing, even after all they, they still can't beat the Dubs!!"
Donegal havent given Dublin a game since 2014. Kerry and Mayo got a few draws when Dublin were operating at 50%. That doesnt count as meaningful competition. Remember when Kildare were praised for only being beaten by 9 points in a Leinster final?

If county boards want change there is only one way to do it and that is to refuse to honour fixtures v Dublin or pull senior teams from the championship altogether. Leave Dublin play on their own and give the kids who sacrifice their social lives for nothing in other counties their lives back. I am sick of this farce.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1164 - 22/11/2020 09:35:22    2312519

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Leinster has no future if teams go about how Meath performed last night.

They didn't lay a glove on Dublin.

That was the worst Meath performance I've ever witnessed, and it can be dressed up all it wants with the usual stuff, but Meath simply were shockingly poor and for me they totally collapsed.

It was a non performance.

Some serious questions have to be asked regarding their own application to the game,

Dubs bring what they always bring and you'd have to question how Meath applied themselves to the challenge.

Meath went into a game against Dublin with no kick out strategy. On Dublin's kick out they pushed right up leaving huge space in behind to one of the best players in the country to be left unmarked.. ahh here I could be here all day.. not one hard meaningful challenge..

There are much better teams to Meath out there that has been proven in the AI series. Teams with less or similar populations to Meath and all that stuff that haven't collapsed in such an extraordinary way

Dublin go into that knowing full well that last night's game was a joke.

Everyone and their dog knew Dublin would probably be in a semifinal this year, but not many saw it being that easy and expected a far better Meath performance. That in itself was the problem, Meath provided a non performance and that applies on the pitch and sideline."
It was shocking jimbo, one of our worst days ever, no question about it and I completely agree that it was a non-performance so it doesn't even qualify as one of our worst 'performances'.

I don't think you can analyse the game either to be honest, there's nothing to analyse.

Now I've been critical of Meath county boards over the last 2 decades, I think decisions taken, particularly in the early 00s, were disastrous for Meath football and we're only slowly addressing them now (for eg only fixing our club championship this year after nearly 20 years of rubbish).

So hands up, a lot of our problems are of our own making, I've said that repeatedly for years and I stand by it.

But also, I don't think it's unfair to ask the question, how did we go from having a vibrant, competitive Leinster championship to a complete no contest over the last decade?

In the 2000s, Kildare, Meath, Dublin, Laois and Westmeath all won Leinster titles and while Dublin gained control for the last few years, the championship was still competitive, finals were by no means a forgone conclusion.

Does the blame lay 100% with the other 10 counties or are there more factors at play?

Now I don't ask that with any insinuation, I'm genuinely interested in hearing people's views.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 22/11/2020 09:38:01    2312522

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The GAA considers Dublin the blueprint for other counties so let's take a look at what that means. They have 54 Games Promotion officers, 3 regional development officers, 1 hurling officer, and 1 football officer. Every club has a GDA and some of have 2. I'll use Louth as an example. They would need 5 GPAs, 1 RDO for North Leinster (Louth, Meath, Longford, and Westmeath). Probably 2 to cover both codes. Every county needs their own development officer in each code. There are over 30 clubs in Louth so a GDA for each. Although, some rural clubs could share a GDA."
That is a very disingenuous post. You do know Dublin clubs stump up 50% and the DCB the other 50% of the cost of employing all of the above. Do any other clubs in Leinster contribute to the cost?

You also make no reference to the east Leinster project, do you want to tell us how the significant funds of the project have been applied?

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 22/11/2020 09:45:17    2312526

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Replying To Daith:  "Donegal havent given Dublin a game since 2014. Kerry and Mayo got a few draws when Dublin were operating at 50%. That doesnt count as meaningful competition. Remember when Kildare were praised for only being beaten by 9 points in a Leinster final?

If county boards want change there is only one way to do it and that is to refuse to honour fixtures v Dublin or pull senior teams from the championship altogether. Leave Dublin play on their own and give the kids who sacrifice their social lives for nothing in other counties their lives back. I am sick of this farce."
I don't think quitting is the path to achievement or fulfilment Daith.

Also I don't think any team should ever be praised for 'only losing by 9pts', I find it quite patronising.

But look if you believe there are serious injustices going on now, that maybe weren't going on beforehand then you should do your best to address them, don't just walk away.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 22/11/2020 09:45:27    2312527

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Replying To Daith:  "Donegal havent given Dublin a game since 2014. Kerry and Mayo got a few draws when Dublin were operating at 50%. That doesnt count as meaningful competition. Remember when Kildare were praised for only being beaten by 9 points in a Leinster final?

If county boards want change there is only one way to do it and that is to refuse to honour fixtures v Dublin or pull senior teams from the championship altogether. Leave Dublin play on their own and give the kids who sacrifice their social lives for nothing in other counties their lives back. I am sick of this farce."
Disagree, Mayo in particular have given Dublin plenty of close calls. Not at 50%, they just made them look at 50, to be honest there is a few games i struggle to understand how Dublin even won, particularly the one with the o.goals, they basically lost the game for themselves. Bar the Donegal win, they seriously tested them, Kerry last year, first final maybe but a man down against a decent team is hard. Second showed the difference.

GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 46 - 22/11/2020 09:46:14    2312529

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Replying To Daith:  "Donegal havent given Dublin a game since 2014. Kerry and Mayo got a few draws when Dublin were operating at 50%. That doesnt count as meaningful competition. Remember when Kildare were praised for only being beaten by 9 points in a Leinster final?

If county boards want change there is only one way to do it and that is to refuse to honour fixtures v Dublin or pull senior teams from the championship altogether. Leave Dublin play on their own and give the kids who sacrifice their social lives for nothing in other counties their lives back. I am sick of this farce."
Absolute hyperbole nonsense

Just throwing out percentages off the top of your head and completely devaluing the efforts of counties such as Mayo, Kerry and Donegal

Mayo had Dublin's number no doubt about it but they squandered opportunities, Kerry had narrow defeats that could easily have been wins, last year was case and point.

You are absolutely skewing results to suit your own agenda and pulling out absolute BS stats as evidence

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20342 - 22/11/2020 09:51:47    2312533

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Its in good shape, last years group was decided in the last minute. This years final was a great match, Kilkenny and Dublin was a cracker. ;)

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1377 - 22/11/2020 09:57:54    2312538

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Leinster has no future if teams go about how Meath performed last night.

They didn't lay a glove on Dublin.

That was the worst Meath performance I've ever witnessed, and it can be dressed up all it wants with the usual stuff, but Meath simply were shockingly poor and for me they totally collapsed.

It was a non performance.

Some serious questions have to be asked regarding their own application to the game,

Dubs bring what they always bring and you'd have to question how Meath applied themselves to the challenge.

Meath went into a game against Dublin with no kick out strategy. On Dublin's kick out they pushed right up leaving huge space in behind to one of the best players in the country to be left unmarked.. ahh here I could be here all day.. not one hard meaningful challenge..

There are much better teams to Meath out there that has been proven in the AI series. Teams with less or similar populations to Meath and all that stuff that haven't collapsed in such an extraordinary way

Dublin go into that knowing full well that last night's game was a joke.

Everyone and their dog knew Dublin would probably be in a semifinal this year, but not many saw it being that easy and expected a far better Meath performance. That in itself was the problem, Meath provided a non performance and that applies on the pitch and sideline."
Would agree that Meath could have applied themselves much better. The scary thing is that even with the correct application, we still would have been pummeled. Even the final scoreline was flattering, which is mental, if Dublin had played to the final whistle Meath wouldnt have tagged on the consolation points at the end.

Whyalwaysmeath (Meath) - Posts: 27 - 22/11/2020 09:59:43    2312540

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Replying To Daith:  "Donegal havent given Dublin a game since 2014. Kerry and Mayo got a few draws when Dublin were operating at 50%. That doesnt count as meaningful competition. Remember when Kildare were praised for only being beaten by 9 points in a Leinster final?

If county boards want change there is only one way to do it and that is to refuse to honour fixtures v Dublin or pull senior teams from the championship altogether. Leave Dublin play on their own and give the kids who sacrifice their social lives for nothing in other counties their lives back. I am sick of this farce."
Kildare people waving the white flag of surrender would be nothing new. Is Connaught or Munster that much different? One or two teams dominating. Mayo have won Connaught 6 times since 2011. Kerry have won Munster 8 times since 2011. Doesn't seem to be much competition in those provinces either. This Dublin team is special but Kerry almost pipped them last year and Mayo should have pipped them twice in finals. Had these games fallen the other way there would be no talk of dominance and the usual defeatist excuses, population and money. Mayo, Kerry and Donegal have all proven that Dublin can be got at but there is a gap between these top tier teams and the also rans like Kildare. That's not Dublin's fault.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4443 - 22/11/2020 10:01:40    2312543

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