National Forum

Future Of Leinster Championship

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "Jesus wept.. I don't know if you are genuine or having a laugh.. if genuine its incredibly how out of touch you are with the reality of the situation.. I only hope you are unique in that view..
Tipp got their house in order that's how they're having success and Leinster counties aren't! Just to educate you a small bit because I haven't the time to unveil to you the totality of what's really going on with Leinster champ, Kildare are recent all Ireland under 20 champions numerous Leinster minor/u21 titles and one of the most successful underage counties in the country because of structures put in place 20 years ago.. but simply don't have the money Dublin have to prepare a senior team like they can.."
So Kildare put the structures in 20 years ago and have had recent All Ireland success....thanks that kind of proves my point.

In your words the simple difference between Dublin and Kildare is the money Dublin have to prepare a senior team....Jesus wept is right!

How much money would it have taken for Kildare not to ship 5 goals against Meath? Take heart though, Meath hit 5 past Dublin in a Leinster semi too and we haven't looked back since.

bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 333 - 24/11/2020 07:41:25    2314441

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "Jesus wept.. I don't know if you are genuine or having a laugh.. if genuine its incredibly how out of touch you are with the reality of the situation.. I only hope you are unique in that view..
Tipp got their house in order that's how they're having success and Leinster counties aren't! Just to educate you a small bit because I haven't the time to unveil to you the totality of what's really going on with Leinster champ, Kildare are recent all Ireland under 20 champions numerous Leinster minor/u21 titles and one of the most successful underage counties in the country because of structures put in place 20 years ago.. but simply don't have the money Dublin have to prepare a senior team like they can.."
There wasnt a whole lot put in place 20 years ago. What really happened was in individuals in clubs like Celbridge, Carbury and Athy looked at what was going on in the Newbridge clubs and upped their game. There was no county wide "vision".

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 24/11/2020 09:17:05    2314465

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Of all the Leinster counties, Kildare and Meath are probably best positioned to challenge Dublin. Both have decent population bases, relatively good employment rates, and have some big industries (especially Kildare. Kildare also has the benefits of a university with great sports facilities. So, what would be needed to bring them up to a level where they could compete consistently with the Dubs? Is it just money, or are there other things that need to be addressed?
Something that Dublin have, and that is often overlooked, is excellent administrative leadership - John Costello seems to have done an excellent job over the years to put good structures in place.

football first (None) - Posts: 1252 - 24/11/2020 09:27:33    2314472

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Replying To football first:  "Of all the Leinster counties, Kildare and Meath are probably best positioned to challenge Dublin. Both have decent population bases, relatively good employment rates, and have some big industries (especially Kildare. Kildare also has the benefits of a university with great sports facilities. So, what would be needed to bring them up to a level where they could compete consistently with the Dubs? Is it just money, or are there other things that need to be addressed?
Something that Dublin have, and that is often overlooked, is excellent administrative leadership - John Costello seems to have done an excellent job over the years to put good structures in place."
Money. Dublin have been given almost 30 million euros. Is it any wonder Costello looked competent? Who wouldn't?

Meath county board have actually upped their game in recent years but they have very limited financial resources. Kildare similarly although I don't know enough about their county board.

But this shouldn't be about giving money to Meath and Kildare in hopes of a few competitive matches. The whole county system has to be reset. Likes of Carlow, Longford, Leitrim etc deserve an equal chance and a more level playing field. Dublin is a province in everything but name and should be treated as such. Either divide it up in 4 or let their club champions enter as the county team. Many of their clubs have greater population and resources than most counties. Ballymun would prob win Leinster or at least come close.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1193 - 24/11/2020 09:41:46    2314478

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Replying To bubba83:  "So Kildare put the structures in 20 years ago and have had recent All Ireland success....thanks that kind of proves my point.

In your words the simple difference between Dublin and Kildare is the money Dublin have to prepare a senior team....Jesus wept is right!

How much money would it have taken for Kildare not to ship 5 goals against Meath? Take heart though, Meath hit 5 past Dublin in a Leinster semi too and we haven't looked back since."
Lads, Dublin fans are going to have to get real or the carpet is going to be swept from under your feet. Being willfully stupid or ignorant is no defence.

The **** is hitting the fan and rest of country, starting in Leinster, are going to start boycotting unless massive changes happen, most likely Dublin being treated as a province and divided in 4. Alternative is we just leave Dublin out of it which immediately makes for a brilliant championship based on integrity, sport and fairness.

Either way ye had better wise up and stop pretending you don't see what the problem is as it's coming down the tracks fast.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1193 - 24/11/2020 09:46:55    2314480

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Just on Cuala, i know you are hinting at the sponsorship deal signed last Spring. That is impressive. What is not impressive is that Cuala teams play their games mostly on County Council pitches, so you have Mick Fitzsimons and the O Callaghans down the local park playing their club games on bogs.

Their are uniuqe challenges in Dublin that no other county faces. Cuala are Shankill, Killiney, Dalky club - if you want to buy a piece of land there to accommodate a football pitch and a club house you are talking 20- 30 mill conservatively.

A huge challenge for GAA in Dublin is space and land and cost, this isnt the case anywhere else. Communities are bursting at the seams and clubs are struggling to accommodate for sheer numbers, Dublin needs more clubs, it needs more GAA grounds. Their is is an inhibiting factor of cost of land and space that really a local GAA club just cant muster. So plenty of players just dont keep on because their just isn't the space or room to accommodate them, their development and to space to facilitate regular games.

This is a challenge that only exists in Dublin. People think what goes on in dublin is the land of milk and honey, i really wish is was, i think if we sorted the Dublin uniuqe problems we might have a case to answer on some of the accusations. Certainly if we cultivated 100k registered players, some of the arguments might stick."
If Dublin needs more clubs, then why are the county board allowing existing junior clubs to go to the wall while the superclubs gobble up all before them?

Ever ask yourself that?

You can talk about participation numbers, development officers, going into schools, etc. but the success of the Senior intercounty team and the 6 or 7 big senior clubs is the be-all-and-end-all for Dublin County board, and that is what the millions upon millions of euro has been concentrated on, ultimately.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4696 - 24/11/2020 09:59:09    2314486

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Too many great Dublin players have to sit on the bench or do not make the panel at all. Let them join other counties voluntarily. This could spice up the Louth's, Wiclkows, KIldares etc. And let the 2 Meaths become one superpower.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1145 - 24/11/2020 10:00:12    2314489

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Replying To Daith:  "There wasnt a whole lot put in place 20 years ago. What really happened was in individuals in clubs like Celbridge, Carbury and Athy looked at what was going on in the Newbridge clubs and upped their game. There was no county wide "vision"."
I'd be hopeful though Daith that a new intercounty calender and format can help clubs act hand in hand with the county setup. There just hasn't been any incentive for the likes of Celbridge and Athy for example to see Kildare doing well in Leinster or All Ireland. Celbridge for example were losing up to 6 players for large hunks of the season which might be a reason they haven't pushed on and won more championships.

Kildare and Meath, just using them as an example, are as good and a match for either of the provincial winners or finalists in Munster / Connaught and Ulster this year.

Look I think as fans from the "other" Leinster counties we just need to bide our time if change isn't forthcoming. When the Dubs do 10 in a row at All-Ireland level the rest of the country will be screaming for change too.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 24/11/2020 10:15:14    2314501

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chaps.
how many GPOs active in your county ? and since when ? full time active?
its not a money now answer, or a quick fix, if you give cash to these loonies they will you know what with it....

it is ...GAA remove some funding from Dublin, redistribute nationally with full time coaches for underage club and schools

view is to begin to produce better senior country players in 10 years time - you wont ever get Longford to win an all ireland but you should improve them and they have a chance at championship wins and even leinster final appearances etc


current Dublin 10 in a row is about half way there... 20 in a row is short odds... at some point the GAA will have to act... for now they will likely sit on their hands at least until interest falls off ( which is beginning to happen, with crowds at leinster champ matches and players opting out)

Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 65 - 24/11/2020 10:15:26    2314502

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Replying To annoyedplayer:  "I highly doubt all 1.34 million people in dublin are of playing age. Surely there must be at least on person over the age of 40 in the capital.

20 years ago dubins participation percentage of children under 18 was below the national average of 60%. It is now the highest participation percentage at close to 80% of children under 18. Succes breaths success. This is also true on the other end of thr soectrum. Failure brraths failure through lack of interest and lack of belief. 20 years ago the GAA rushed to Dublins aid. If Dublin Gaels are not willing to share the weath and help their neighbouring counties there will be no leinster championship in a few years"
Then the population argument is redundant if not taking in to account 1.34 mill people. Going by the sensus Dublin have the highest population from U18 down and a booming birth rate.

I have never seen a participation rate of 80% of children in Dublin - can i have a look at the source please. Im genuinely curios of that and be quite amazed if that is true.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 24/11/2020 10:26:02    2314509

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Replying To cavanman47:  "If Dublin needs more clubs, then why are the county board allowing existing junior clubs to go to the wall while the superclubs gobble up all before them?

Ever ask yourself that?

You can talk about participation numbers, development officers, going into schools, etc. but the success of the Senior intercounty team and the 6 or 7 big senior clubs is the be-all-and-end-all for Dublin County board, and that is what the millions upon millions of euro has been concentrated on, ultimately."
Im trying to think of a Junior Club going to the wall? I know a few who started and couldn't continue, a few in the city became urbanised as people headed out of the inner city to live. Then some amalgamate as communities become blended through development and because of the cost associated of operating in Dublin.

I honestly dont believe that is case with the DCB, in fact im sometimes frustrated with them as i dont think they really cultivate the marketability and commercial opportunities of the Dublin brand to be fair i dont think the GAA help and has the DCB on a bit of leash. The DCB has a very civic focus i suppose that is evident with the amount of junior and intermediate players who actually go on and play for Dublin and a similar access to scale of GPO's, GDA and GDO.

Id be critical of the DCB on a number of fronts but not necessarily on focusing on the county team or enabling the big clubs,, its why the Dublin club championship is so competitive.

I do think it is a good idea to decant the big clubs though, Dublin definitely needs more clubs, land, cost etc is a big issue though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 24/11/2020 10:38:57    2314515

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Replying To Jimjo:  "chaps.
how many GPOs active in your county ? and since when ? full time active?
its not a money now answer, or a quick fix, if you give cash to these loonies they will you know what with it....

it is ...GAA remove some funding from Dublin, redistribute nationally with full time coaches for underage club and schools

view is to begin to produce better senior country players in 10 years time - you wont ever get Longford to win an all ireland but you should improve them and they have a chance at championship wins and even leinster final appearances etc


current Dublin 10 in a row is about half way there... 20 in a row is short odds... at some point the GAA will have to act... for now they will likely sit on their hands at least until interest falls off ( which is beginning to happen, with crowds at leinster champ matches and players opting out)"
20 in a row would be very long odds.

Another 15 titles from here.

You wouldn't want to back that at 200-1.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 24/11/2020 10:43:06    2314518

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In talking about Dublin's dominance of Leinster

It is important to remember that a very average Dubs side, a side incapable of beating a team outside of Leinster was still good enough to win a 5 in a row in 05,06,07,08,09

That's dream land stuff for most

Yet a poor Dublin outfit did it in Leinster.. that speaks volumes

Leinster's problems go way back

Historically Kildare have never been up to much

Leinsters true competitive edge died with the downfall of Meath and there's an awful lot more at play there than the big bad Dubs as the Meath lads know very well...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20366 - 24/11/2020 11:09:24    2314536

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Replying To Whammo86:  "20 in a row would be very long odds.

Another 15 titles from here.

You wouldn't want to back that at 200-1."
20 in a row leinsters is 10 more from here .... this forum is about Leinster championship Whammo86
bear in mind you would want to see another leinster county start dominating at minor level very very soon otherwise its on !

Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 65 - 24/11/2020 11:21:17    2314549

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The bottom 3 teams in Leinster will have new pastures next year anyway in the Connacht and Munster Championships if the Fixtures review committee proposals are accepted.Could breath new life into Louth with a new manager and having a cut at a provincial without Dublin

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1669 - 24/11/2020 11:23:38    2314551

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "The bottom 3 teams in Leinster will have new pastures next year anyway in the Connacht and Munster Championships if the Fixtures review committee proposals are accepted.Could breath new life into Louth with a new manager and having a cut at a provincial without Dublin"
silly stuff though. Surely the obvious and fairest thing to do is to rotate Dublin? Give the like of Louth / Wexford / Wicklow something to build to in Leinster.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 24/11/2020 12:10:12    2314597

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Replying To Jimjo:  "20 in a row leinsters is 10 more from here .... this forum is about Leinster championship Whammo86
bear in mind you would want to see another leinster county start dominating at minor level very very soon otherwise its on !"
Ah sorry gotcha.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 24/11/2020 13:10:28    2314640

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Was it fair that Kildare was very generous to the great Micko

Bought success?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20366 - 24/11/2020 13:22:17    2314655

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Was it fair that Kildare was very generous to the great Micko

Bought success?"
Maybe Kildare. Not central GAA though.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 24/11/2020 13:36:45    2314669

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Replying To daytona11:  "silly stuff though. Surely the obvious and fairest thing to do is to rotate Dublin? Give the like of Louth / Wexford / Wicklow something to build to in Leinster."
I don't get that though.

It's not the Leinster championship then.

I don't like the rotate 3 out of Leinster plan either.

I think just give teams more championship games.


You could have a system where every team plays 4 games to begin with.

Week 1: Leinster and Ulster preliminary rounds (4 matches). 24 teams not involved (7 from Ulster, 5 from Leinster and 6 each from Munster and Connacht) play 12 interprovincial ties.

Week 2: Provincial quarterfinal week. 12 ties (4 each in Ulster and Leinster, 2 each in Munster and Connacht). 8 remaining sides (2 bye teams in each of Munster and Connacht, 1 Ulster preliminary loser and 3 Leinster preliminary losers) play 4 interprovincial ties.

Week 3: Provincial semifinalists v non Provincial semifinalists. 16 teams playing in the Provincial semifinals play a team that's been eliminated from their province.

Week 4: Provincial semifinals. 16 teams not playing provincial semifinals play 8 ties.

Teams should play 2 home games and 2 away games.

After week 4 20 teams progress.

8 Provincial finalists plus 12 other teams with the best 4 game record.

Those 20 teams then play 2 more matches each, to include provincial finals.

The 2 games should be balanced in difficulty, each team should play a top 10 team and a bottom 10 team.

So say Meath got Dublin in the Leinster final, they then get a bottom 10 team in their second fixture.

After those 2 games the 4 Provincial champions plus 6 other teams qualify for the final stages.

Top 6 (regardless of whether they won their province) go straight through to the quarterfinals.

7th -10th play in the preliminary quarter finals.

Play regular knockout quarter finals from then on.

Every team gets more games. Reduces provincial imbalance.

Takes the same number of game weeks as the qualifiers plus super 8s system.

Brings back the knockout quarterfinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 24/11/2020 13:44:24    2314674

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