National Forum

All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To KillingFields:  "But they won on the pitch where they were greatly aided by a mistake that shouldnt have happened
It is embarrassing from the GAA that its taken until today to make the decision to replay the game.
Glen are not trying to win an all ireland in boardroom lost on the pitch. they are trying to be treated fairly."
Decisions in matches arent always fair. Thats life but Crokes won on the day. Time for Glen to move on.

RangersFan (Dublin) - Posts: 117 - 31/01/2023 14:54:38    2455571

Link

Would love to have been a fly on the wall at proceedings last night!
I am perplexed with this decision.

If this is the way rules are to be applied in future, I fear the number of replays that will be awarded.

So,.for arguments sake, the Limerick v Kilkenny SF with the failure.of.officials to.award a 65 on the last olay when officials failed to notice that a KK player had touched the line ball and it went out for a 65... that is just one example where officials erred or made a..istake or put simply missed something. And this had a.massive bearing on the result.


Should a team be awarded a replay when officials have erred or made a mistake?

If the GAA is admitting that its officials made a mistake, and that that such a scenario will result in a replay, well we really are entering a period for serious litigation.
Or, is the GAA accusing or.stating that Crokes were responsible...

When the referee blew for the 45 to be taken, was there anybody bringing to his attention that 2 or 1 players had been substituted and had not left the field?
It seems over harsh to me.

I expect that Crokes will either give back the trophy OR fight the decision.
I would not blame them if they chose the first option.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1875 - 31/01/2023 15:09:48    2455577

Link

Replying To Wally:  "
Replying To BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Wally:  "'not fully left the pitch'

Are you for real. The 16th player was defending the goal line that Glen were trying to score into!

It couldn't be anymore black and white.

GAA are 100% right on this, but it could have been an awful lot less controversial if they had of used their own initiative and done this at least a week ago."
There were 16 men on the line? There would have been the same number of people on the line regardless of the extra man for 23 seconds. Anyone claiming that Crokes won because of that is stretching credibility to the limit.

They broke a rule, sanction has been applied. Fair enough, they did break a rule. Now. If they have any cojones they will say, "grand, well we won the match, so if you want to strip us of the title, fire away. We still won."

And that is how it will be recalled in the years to come."
Jesus people really need to take a minute to read a post before commenting on it and embarrassing themselves.

I said the 16th man was defending the goal line. I did not say there was 16 men on the goal line.

There is no ambiguity here. Just facts.

Crokes had 17 men on the field. One of those men was meant to leave the field play but did not. Instead he remained on the goal line, defending it while Glen tried to work a goal.

It's all very simple really."]Well if you want it to be simple and explain it as if there was no referee that's fair enough. But like all games we depend on the ref to make decisions as the game unfolds.
In this case we have a ref that allowed the game to restart b4 the substituted players left the field. Give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know though he should check.
Then when he sees Dara Mullin leave the field he refuses Glen's request to retake the 45(according to Glen).
Finally and most bizarrely if sports journalists reports are correct he has nada, zilch, nothing about this sorry ending to the game in his match report!

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 885 - 31/01/2023 15:15:07    2455579

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "But they won on the pitch where they were greatly aided by a mistake that shouldnt have happened
It is embarrassing from the GAA that its taken until today to make the decision to replay the game.
Glen are not trying to win an all ireland in boardroom lost on the pitch. they are trying to be treated fairly."
They won on the pitch alright. But greatly aided by a mistake? Dont think so. Game was well into injury time. It was a mistake that had no impact whatsoever on the final seconds or result of the game.

aidan64 (Kerry) - Posts: 668 - 31/01/2023 15:16:30    2455580

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "But they won on the pitch where they were greatly aided by a mistake that shouldnt have happened
It is embarrassing from the GAA that its taken until today to make the decision to replay the game.
Glen are not trying to win an all ireland in boardroom lost on the pitch. they are trying to be treated fairly."
"Greatly" aided, would that be maybe a wee bit exaggerated?

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 885 - 31/01/2023 15:18:37    2455582

Link

Replying To BarneyGrant:  "
Replying To Wally:  "'not fully left the pitch'

Are you for real. The 16th player was defending the goal line that Glen were trying to score into!

It couldn't be anymore black and white.

GAA are 100% right on this, but it could have been an awful lot less controversial if they had of used their own initiative and done this at least a week ago."
There were 16 men on the line? There would have been the same number of people on the line regardless of the extra man for 23 seconds. Anyone claiming that Crokes won because of that is stretching credibility to the limit.

They broke a rule, sanction has been applied. Fair enough, they did break a rule. Now. If they have any cojones they will say, "grand, well we won the match, so if you want to strip us of the title, fire away. We still won."

And that is how it will be recalled in the years to come."
They won the game by not playing football Barney. Football is a 15 a side game. Therefore they didn't win the game by playing football on the field of play. And that's how most people will remember it. Best they take to the field and win with 15 men. I'll be watching the replay and supporting them as I did in the original game!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 31/01/2023 15:32:59    2455585

Link

Personally i think the replay is overkill. Even if kilmacud had only 15 on the pitch for that last 50, i'd give the glen a 1 in 10 chance of getting a goal at best. Kilmacud should have got the fine option.

In any event something needs to be done to provide full clarity, cause as sure as guns metal some junior c league game will run into the same issue again down the line.

I think kilmacud will win it next day. I think they did their best to loose it on the line the last day . For all the plaudits kilmacud management have got to date i think they were completely asleep on the line

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 550 - 31/01/2023 15:35:01    2455586

Link

I hope neither team turn up. The Grab All Association don't deserve another gate.
Then they can fine both teams for no show and make a few quid.
After all money is the name of their game

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 31/01/2023 15:37:08    2455587

Link

Should be an interesting game, I think it will attract a bigger than usual viewership as a result.
Hopefully plenty of bite!!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8746 - 31/01/2023 15:37:20    2455588

Link

After all the dancing around the problem by Croke Park what happens if one of the finalists refuse to accept a replay, will it be awarded to the other team or will the losing semi finalists be offered chance to play for the title? {I cant see either Kerins O'Rahillys or Maigh Cuilinn accepting a consolation final}, or maybe it will be declared void.A lot of talk yet to come.

backtooldwall (Galway) - Posts: 141 - 31/01/2023 15:37:31    2455589

Link

Replying To Wally:  "
Replying To BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Wally:  "'not fully left the pitch'

Are you for real. The 16th player was defending the goal line that Glen were trying to score into!

It couldn't be anymore black and white.

GAA are 100% right on this, but it could have been an awful lot less controversial if they had of used their own initiative and done this at least a week ago."
There were 16 men on the line? There would have been the same number of people on the line regardless of the extra man for 23 seconds. Anyone claiming that Crokes won because of that is stretching credibility to the limit.

They broke a rule, sanction has been applied. Fair enough, they did break a rule. Now. If they have any cojones they will say, "grand, well we won the match, so if you want to strip us of the title, fire away. We still won."

And that is how it will be recalled in the years to come."
Jesus people really need to take a minute to read a post before commenting on it and embarrassing themselves.

I said the 16th man was defending the goal line. I did not say there was 16 men on the goal line.

There is no ambiguity here. Just facts.

Crokes had 17 men on the field. One of those men was meant to leave the field play but did not. Instead he remained on the goal line, defending it while Glen tried to work a goal.

It's all very simple really."]I am not a bit embarrassed. Nor are Crokes. They won on the pitch, on the day. Everything else after that is irrelevant.

Had the substitutions been what won it, or had they gotten a dodgy penalty, or someone ought to have been sent off, or a score missed or wrongly given, etc, etc, then I'd be first to say the game ought to be replayed,

That did not happen. Nor will a replay. Trophies and medals are only pieces of metal. Everyone knows they won, and that that they would have won regardless of that 23 seconds.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3510 - 31/01/2023 15:38:17    2455591

Link

Replying To bad.monkey:  "Ref made an error allowing 45 be taken quickly but Crokes won on the day. This really embarassing stuff from the GAA and also from Glen for trying to win an All Ireland in a boardroom that they lost on the pitch."
What will really be embarassing for the player that didn't go off is if Glen wins the replay.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 521 - 31/01/2023 15:41:41    2455593

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "But they won on the pitch where they were greatly aided by a mistake that shouldnt have happened
It is embarrassing from the GAA that its taken until today to make the decision to replay the game.
Glen are not trying to win an all ireland in boardroom lost on the pitch. they are trying to be treated fairly."
Do you really think the advantage was that significant?

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1468 - 31/01/2023 15:53:18    2455597

Link

Before lots of people start picking holes in Glen's right to have a replay, take a look back at past decisions . Laois v Armagh, Na Fianna club game , Meath club game Clare and all for less than Glen's case. Things like using too many subs, replacing black card player, but not as bad as too many players involved in play. The extra player was involved in play so GAA had no other option but to award a replay. If no one sticks to the rules we might as well pack the whole game up and play tennis.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2289 - 31/01/2023 16:25:53    2455606

Link

Replying To BarneyGrant:  "
Replying To Wally:  "[quote=BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Wally:  "'not fully left the pitch'

Are you for real. The 16th player was defending the goal line that Glen were trying to score into!

It couldn't be anymore black and white.

GAA are 100% right on this, but it could have been an awful lot less controversial if they had of used their own initiative and done this at least a week ago."
There were 16 men on the line? There would have been the same number of people on the line regardless of the extra man for 23 seconds. Anyone claiming that Crokes won because of that is stretching credibility to the limit.

They broke a rule, sanction has been applied. Fair enough, they did break a rule. Now. If they have any cojones they will say, "grand, well we won the match, so if you want to strip us of the title, fire away. We still won."

And that is how it will be recalled in the years to come."
Jesus people really need to take a minute to read a post before commenting on it and embarrassing themselves.

I said the 16th man was defending the goal line. I did not say there was 16 men on the goal line.

There is no ambiguity here. Just facts.

Crokes had 17 men on the field. One of those men was meant to leave the field play but did not. Instead he remained on the goal line, defending it while Glen tried to work a goal.

It's all very simple really."]I am not a bit embarrassed. Nor are Crokes. They won on the pitch, on the day. Everything else after that is irrelevant.

Had the substitutions been what won it, or had they gotten a dodgy penalty, or someone ought to have been sent off, or a score missed or wrongly given, etc, etc, then I'd be first to say the game ought to be replayed,

That did not happen. Nor will a replay. Trophies and medals are only pieces of metal. Everyone knows they won, and that that they would have won regardless of that 23 seconds."]Fair enough. You are right.

From now on any team can just fire on an additional 2 men for the last minute or so of the game. Sure what is the harm?

Ach sure what would that matter...might as well throw them on for all of injury time.

Sure whats the big deal?? Why stop at 2 additional men. We will just throw on 3 or 4 men. Sure if they don't touch the ball what's the harm?

They are only guidelines after all. Its not like there is an actual rule for this stuff.

Deluded is an understatement.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 926 - 31/01/2023 16:49:08    2455612

Link

The substitutions had nothing to do with Crokes winning. Simple as that. From what i have heard they have no intention of playing again and will not be losing sleep over having title that they won on the pitch taken away, if that's what it comes down to that.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3510 - 31/01/2023 17:31:47    2455630

Link

There need to be some proper motions at Congress to deal with these kind of situations. The onus should not be on any team to have to object to get attention.
If Kilmacud refuse to play what happens then? Fine or ban or both?
Do the GAA take the cup off them and say sorry you didn't win it at all?
Did the ref admit he restarted play to quickly after the subs came on without checking if players had left the field?
Will the same ref do the replay? If so why
If not why not?
Were both teams privy to the refs report?
So much underhand , and sweeping under the carpet sh@@e by the top brass it would put any young lad off even bothering playing the game.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 31/01/2023 17:39:09    2455631

Link

The GAA have only done today what they should have done last Monday week at the latest once they became award of the Kilmacud Crokes No 14 remaining in the pitch and in a defensive position for that last play. However the GAA were not going to act until Glen forced them to do so. Once they accepted that there were 16 Crokes players on the field to defend the final '45' there were 3 options open to them, 1. Fine, 2. Order a Replay or 3. Award the game to Glen, 'depending on the circumstances'.

Now the circumstances were that Crokes led by 2 points and were awarded a '45' when Crokes decided to bring on two subs, one of the original players (Paul Mannion) was leaving the pitch when the second sub arrived and the original player (Mullen) went on to the goal line giving them 4 men on the line with more defending the remainder of the parallelogram. In this situation 4 is always better than 3.

In those circumstances a fine would be too lenient as Glen'n chances of scoring a goal which would have put them one point ahead were reduced. So the options are now down the a replay or awarding the game to Glen. TV evidence is not clear if there was any communication between the final sub coming on to the field and Mr Mullen who then reverted to a defensive position on the goal line. If there was communication between those two players then I believe the game would have been awarded to Glen, as it could be seen as a deliberate act but instead the GAA must have decided that it was not deliberate and so gave Kilmacud Crokes a fool's pardon and ordered a replay. In many sports citing ignorance of the rules is not seen as a defence.

And by the way did Kilmacud Crokes manage to loose last year's final in the final minutes.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1103 - 31/01/2023 17:43:06    2455633

Link

Replying To BarneyGrant:  "
Replying To Wally:  "[quote=BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Wally:  "'not fully left the pitch'

Are you for real. The 16th player was defending the goal line that Glen were trying to score into!

It couldn't be anymore black and white.

GAA are 100% right on this, but it could have been an awful lot less controversial if they had of used their own initiative and done this at least a week ago."
There were 16 men on the line? There would have been the same number of people on the line regardless of the extra man for 23 seconds. Anyone claiming that Crokes won because of that is stretching credibility to the limit.

They broke a rule, sanction has been applied. Fair enough, they did break a rule. Now. If they have any cojones they will say, "grand, well we won the match, so if you want to strip us of the title, fire away. We still won."

And that is how it will be recalled in the years to come."
Jesus people really need to take a minute to read a post before commenting on it and embarrassing themselves.

I said the 16th man was defending the goal line. I did not say there was 16 men on the goal line.

There is no ambiguity here. Just facts.

Crokes had 17 men on the field. One of those men was meant to leave the field play but did not. Instead he remained on the goal line, defending it while Glen tried to work a goal.

It's all very simple really."]I am not a bit embarrassed. Nor are Crokes. They won on the pitch, on the day. Everything else after that is irrelevant.

Had the substitutions been what won it, or had they gotten a dodgy penalty, or someone ought to have been sent off, or a score missed or wrongly given, etc, etc, then I'd be first to say the game ought to be replayed,

That did not happen. Nor will a replay. Trophies and medals are only pieces of metal. Everyone knows they won, and that that they would have won regardless of that 23 seconds."]Noone will ever know what might have happened in that 23 seconds Barney. Just this weekend we let in a goal on the last play to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory against London. And if you are only talking club Ballygunner won the AIF against Ballyhale with a last second goal only a year ago. Or at underage our u21s lost to a last second goal when 2 points up on Galway in the u21 Leinster hurling final in 2018. Last minute goals happen at every level in both codes all the time. So "everyone" who thinks they know they would have won regardless of that 23 seconds is only a fool.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 31/01/2023 18:03:40    2455639

Link

Replying To clooney:  "i BELIEVE IT WAS THE MATCH V TIPPERARY IN MUNSTER HURLING AIDAN MCACRTHY WAS DISMISSED FOR 10 MINUTES UNDER THAT NEW RULE ABOUT CYNICAL FOULING IN FRONT OF GOAL ONLY THINK WAS MCCARTHY WAS ABOUT 5 YAERDS IN FROM TOUCCHLINE

RULE FADED AWAY AFTER THAT CONTROVERSY"
When you say it faded away, do you mean referees just decided not to bother with tidy pesky rule? Cos I just looked at the rulebook (Official Guide Part 2, Hurling, Rule 5.45) and it's there (and football's got one as well). Presumably this got passed at Annual Congress by a vote in excess of 60%, whose delegates included swathes of people representing the counties where hurling is played by teams who play competitive games against other county teams at their level in league and championship. A playing rule was democratically introduced into hurling, yet as soon as it's enacted exactly as it was intended and there's a bit of controversy about it, it quiet disappears as though it never existed, as though the ink with which it it was printed suddenly started to fade over a few days and eventually disappeared. And that, my friends, is, in a nutshell, the whole problem with bureaucracy and GAA's culture.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1168 - 31/01/2023 18:15:18    2455645

Link