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Replying To Lockjaw: "Well firstly it was just great to be at a game again. I honestly can't remember the last county match I attended. I'm not sure what the attendance was, but there was a decent enough wee crowd at it. Hopefully to God the Covid situation will allow full normal crowds in the weeks & months ahead. I'm thinking that Tyrone at home in the league, and obviously Armagh in the championship would have bumper crowds if allowed.
On to the game and it was great to see some new faces involved. One small quibble I'd have is with the match program. How hard can it be to get the player's names & club right? Eunan Doherty was listed as Eamon Doherty from St. Eunans for example.
There were a lot of mistakes from both sides in terms of coughing up possession and taking the wrong option in the final third. But that was to be expected for the time of year and it looked to be a very slippy ball.
The work rate was good & I didn't feel that any of the newcomers looked out of place. Shane O'Donnell & McGuinness combined for a nice score in the first half. McGuinness had a good goal chance & maybe panicked a bit. I felt he was a bit unlucky to be hooked at half time, but maybe he'd suffered a knock.
Some other observations:
McClenaghan - very solid outing & took the goal well. Really hope he can stay fit & push for a championship place. He is teak tough & would bring added physicality to the HB line.
Conor O'Donnell - very lively player & not afraid to go for his scores. Off target with a few last night but can be very happy with his outing.
Caolan Ward - good in the FB line, made a nice few interceptions and broke well. He'll feel that 2022 is his time to be an automatic starter.
Jamie Grant - nice wee cameo. He is very aggressive coming out with the ball. Made one wee burst last night with a couple of body swerves that Keith Earls would have been proud of & won a free. Drew some appreciative applause from.the crowd.
McGonigle - very solid from the big Buncrana man. When he gets on the charge he is hard to stop. I know there is a bit of a clamour to see Jason McGee get more game time but in fairness McGonigle has been one of our best players these past couple of years. Not sure what Hugh McFadden's fitness will be like, but good to have the McGee option. I didn't see him there last night though.
Mogan was very lively too. His pace & decision making are very good. Definitely will offer options in a variety of positions.
O'Hagan is a classy corner forward for Down. Up there with the best in Ulster in my opinion." Excellent analysis lockjaw. Great to get back watching football again. Nice to see the young lads getting a run. Agree about grant I've watched him a few times and he is an excellent prospect. Hopefully we'll keep a strong squad and be injury free cause I feel there's huge potential in the squad. Another player who came on and looked sharp was Ethan o donnell I feel he has the potential to nail down a starting spot. Interesting to see eoin ban start at no 6. I feel this could be his position. Didn't notice rochford last night although I could have missed him. Anyway roll on the league.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2401 - 08/01/2022 12:03:52
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Well firstly it was just great to be at a game again. I honestly can't remember the last county match I attended. I'm not sure what the attendance was, but there was a decent enough wee crowd at it. Hopefully to God the Covid situation will allow full normal crowds in the weeks & months ahead. I'm thinking that Tyrone at home in the league, and obviously Armagh in the championship would have bumper crowds if allowed.
On to the game and it was great to see some new faces involved. One small quibble I'd have is with the match program. How hard can it be to get the player's names & club right? Eunan Doherty was listed as Eamon Doherty from St. Eunans for example.
There were a lot of mistakes from both sides in terms of coughing up possession and taking the wrong option in the final third. But that was to be expected for the time of year and it looked to be a very slippy ball.
The work rate was good & I didn't feel that any of the newcomers looked out of place. Shane O'Donnell & McGuinness combined for a nice score in the first half. McGuinness had a good goal chance & maybe panicked a bit. I felt he was a bit unlucky to be hooked at half time, but maybe he'd suffered a knock.
Some other observations:
McClenaghan - very solid outing & took the goal well. Really hope he can stay fit & push for a championship place. He is teak tough & would bring added physicality to the HB line.
Conor O'Donnell - very lively player & not afraid to go for his scores. Off target with a few last night but can be very happy with his outing.
Caolan Ward - good in the FB line, made a nice few interceptions and broke well. He'll feel that 2022 is his time to be an automatic starter.
Jamie Grant - nice wee cameo. He is very aggressive coming out with the ball. Made one wee burst last night with a couple of body swerves that Keith Earls would have been proud of & won a free. Drew some appreciative applause from.the crowd.
McGonigle - very solid from the big Buncrana man. When he gets on the charge he is hard to stop. I know there is a bit of a clamour to see Jason McGee get more game time but in fairness McGonigle has been one of our best players these past couple of years. Not sure what Hugh McFadden's fitness will be like, but good to have the McGee option. I didn't see him there last night though.
Mogan was very lively too. His pace & decision making are very good. Definitely will offer options in a variety of positions.
O'Hagan is a classy corner forward for Down. Up there with the best in Ulster in my opinion." Also to add that Michael Langan was a cut above every player on the pitch. He really is what I would call an A grade player. Just effortlessly glides around the pitch dictating things. If ever there was a year for MM to stay positioned in the FF line this will be it.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9133 - 08/01/2022 12:28:57
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Donegal 5-16 Antrim 1-10 in the hurling. Should be pointed out that Antrim fielded their U20 team since their seniors are competing in the Walsh Cup.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 08/01/2022 14:16:23
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Well done to the young lads on Friday night. We certainly have a wealth of talent coming through.
The big concern is the way we set up to play. It's even more defensive than last year and we still don't seem to have an attacking plan except get the ball, run until you're tackled then fist pass and repeat. We had Charlie Mc Guinness at full forward for the first half yet never utilised a long ball to him to see what he can do. Down played differently in each half, running the ball in the first then kicking in the second. This is a pre season game, why not try something different! We have been looking at this defensive blanket for 10 years now whilst other teams have gone with man to man and kicking game. Even if we get our strongest team out and play this way we're going nowhere.
We're rebuilding but doing these young talented players a disservice by continuing this type of football. We won't win anything anyway playing this way so change it up and allow them to play and even if we win nothing then it'll be do different.
Jim was brilliant in 2012 as he devised a system that suited the players we had at the time, we had limited amount of natural forwards and plenty of defenders. We now have a completely different panel with loads of talent up front but we're playing a system that stifles it.
Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 09/01/2022 11:13:19
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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu: "Well done to the young lads on Friday night. We certainly have a wealth of talent coming through.
The big concern is the way we set up to play. It's even more defensive than last year and we still don't seem to have an attacking plan except get the ball, run until you're tackled then fist pass and repeat. We had Charlie Mc Guinness at full forward for the first half yet never utilised a long ball to him to see what he can do. Down played differently in each half, running the ball in the first then kicking in the second. This is a pre season game, why not try something different! We have been looking at this defensive blanket for 10 years now whilst other teams have gone with man to man and kicking game. Even if we get our strongest team out and play this way we're going nowhere.
We're rebuilding but doing these young talented players a disservice by continuing this type of football. We won't win anything anyway playing this way so change it up and allow them to play and even if we win nothing then it'll be do different.
Jim was brilliant in 2012 as he devised a system that suited the players we had at the time, we had limited amount of natural forwards and plenty of defenders. We now have a completely different panel with loads of talent up front but we're playing a system that stifles it." Looks to me like the management haven't a clue what they are trying to do, if you haven't the right leadership you'll win nothing anyway, pure talent will get us so far and some days and against certain opposition we will look great, but when it comes down to playing the better teams we will be found out again and again because we are not set up or managed correctly.
I think these players deserved a new fresh management team in this year to change our style of play, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 09/01/2022 12:14:59
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Also to add that Michael Langan was a cut above every player on the pitch. He really is what I would call an A grade player. Just effortlessly glides around the pitch dictating things. If ever there was a year for MM to stay positioned in the FF line this will be it." Thanks for the feedback Lock. Langan is a Rolls Royce of a footballer, absolute top class player and brings it nearly everytime. Did McColgan get much of a run out? He was my pick from last year's twenties to maybe have an impact. I would've had Grant not far after him who certainly can cope with the physical step up. That team were very good defensively but often shot themselves in the foot by conceding poor scores from individual errors and bad decision making.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2781 - 09/01/2022 12:27:16
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Looks to me like the management haven't a clue what they are trying to do, if you haven't the right leadership you'll win nothing anyway, pure talent will get us so far and some days and against certain opposition we will look great, but when it comes down to playing the better teams we will be found out again and again because we are not set up or managed correctly.
I think these players deserved a new fresh management team in this year to change our style of play, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results." We have played one game in the mc kenna cup and your at your usual moaning. Get a life and get behind the players and management it's the least they deserve. These are the people giving up there time for the good of Donegal football not a keyboard warrior like yourself who constantly criticise bonner and rochford in every post. I'll tell you one thing bonner and rochford as there record suggest s know a lot more about football than me or you ever will. I would like to ask you a question what way would you like Donegal to set up.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2401 - 09/01/2022 13:47:59
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Looks to me like the management haven't a clue what they are trying to do, if you haven't the right leadership you'll win nothing anyway, pure talent will get us so far and some days and against certain opposition we will look great, but when it comes down to playing the better teams we will be found out again and again because we are not set up or managed correctly.
I think these players deserved a new fresh management team in this year to change our style of play, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results." Bit early in the year to be already complaining about playing style and set up. This time of year is suited to playing a short hand passing game given the heavy pitches. Added to this was an experimental team with lots of substitutions and debutants. Lads are always going to play it safe in such circumstances. The main thing was to get minutes and experience into the legs and anything else was a bonus. In fairness to Bonner under his management of the senior his sides have shown more than one of playing. That argument might have been valid with the underage teams but not the last few years. Now or even the majority of the league is not the time to be casting judgement.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2781 - 09/01/2022 20:53:41
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Replying To panamasam: "Thanks for the feedback Lock. Langan is a Rolls Royce of a footballer, absolute top class player and brings it nearly everytime. Did McColgan get much of a run out? He was my pick from last year's twenties to maybe have an impact. I would've had Grant not far after him who certainly can cope with the physical step up. That team were very good defensively but often shot themselves in the foot by conceding poor scores from individual errors and bad decision making." Yeah he came on for McKelvey about the 50 minute mark if I remember rightly and didn't look out of place. Attacked the ball well at times and got involved. The more aggressive, defensive options we have the better.
Just a couple of points in general about the McKenna Cup. I know that there has been a school of thought that these pre league tournaments should be scrapped altogether but I disagree for a few reasons.
- it is no longer the case that players can approach the start of the NFL a few pounds overweight and only half fit. If you're serious about contending for Sam you simply have to be operating in Div 1. Competition is so fierce that you need to be looking for points from the very first NFL fixture. Therefore the McKenna Cup games offer opportunities for players to shake off rustiness and gain some match sharpness.
- obviously it gives management a chance to assess new players & integrate them into the senior squad environment. If even one or two players emerge to seriously challenge for a starting place then the McKenna Cup games can be viewed as having been very successful, regardless of whether or not the trophy is lifted.
- back to my first point. Some of the more senior players in the squad might not have kicked a ball in anger in months by now. e.g. McFadden-Ferry's last game was October 17th and he got a good half of football into him the other day marking Down's danger man O'Hagan.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9133 - 10/01/2022 09:09:19
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I was frustrated at paying €12 to stream it, and only see about 60% due to technical issues!!
It's opening round of McKenna Cup, its about dusting off the cobwebs and giving new players a run out before the League.
Tony 'The Bull' McClenaghan is potentially our Kieran McGeery, he is the natural left wing back if he can stay fit and finally get a run in the team. He is physically tough and showed he can attack if needed. I have been a fan of his for a few years now, but he just couldn't get a clear run of it with injuries etc. I'd like to see him get a run at right left wing back for the National League.
Conor O'Donnell has something about him, his shooting was not great against Down, but his movement and physical stature definitely indicate he has serious potential.
Caolan Ward is one of our best defenders in recent seasons, If he isn't getting into the full back line in the National League, Declan should consider him as No 6 Center half back.
Looking at our shortcomings in 2021, we failed to find the right balance at half back and full back, and our defenders were too stand offish and lacked physicality, which was highlighted repeatedly in National League and ChampionshIp. Thats what I will be looking closely at during the National League, that will show whether we have progressed or not.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1112 - 10/01/2022 11:07:22
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Replying To panamasam: "Bit early in the year to be already complaining about playing style and set up. This time of year is suited to playing a short hand passing game given the heavy pitches. Added to this was an experimental team with lots of substitutions and debutants. Lads are always going to play it safe in such circumstances. The main thing was to get minutes and experience into the legs and anything else was a bonus. In fairness to Bonner under his management of the senior his sides have shown more than one of playing. That argument might have been valid with the underage teams but not the last few years. Now or even the majority of the league is not the time to be casting judgement." Basing my views on what I've seen from Bonner's team over the years, I hope I'm wrong and I hope he's bringing the Sam Maguire back to the Rosses in late July or whenever the final is to be but in my opinion Donegal should have had a change of management after the Cavan disaster in 2020,
I'm just an ordinary fan with my own opinion, same as anyone else, nothing I'd like more than to see Donegal competing at the very top and having another chance to land the Sam Maguire. I believe we have the talent, we have potential if manged correctly, I just don't believe we have the right man in charge, he doesn't fill me with confidence put it that way.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 10/01/2022 14:58:49
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah he came on for McKelvey about the 50 minute mark if I remember rightly and didn't look out of place. Attacked the ball well at times and got involved. The more aggressive, defensive options we have the better.
Just a couple of points in general about the McKenna Cup. I know that there has been a school of thought that these pre league tournaments should be scrapped altogether but I disagree for a few reasons.
- it is no longer the case that players can approach the start of the NFL a few pounds overweight and only half fit. If you're serious about contending for Sam you simply have to be operating in Div 1. Competition is so fierce that you need to be looking for points from the very first NFL fixture. Therefore the McKenna Cup games offer opportunities for players to shake off rustiness and gain some match sharpness.
- obviously it gives management a chance to assess new players & integrate them into the senior squad environment. If even one or two players emerge to seriously challenge for a starting place then the McKenna Cup games can be viewed as having been very successful, regardless of whether or not the trophy is lifted.
- back to my first point. Some of the more senior players in the squad might not have kicked a ball in anger in months by now. e.g. McFadden-Ferry's last game was October 17th and he got a good half of football into him the other day marking Down's danger man O'Hagan." McFadden Ferry had an outstanding first year in 2019, but after being away in 2020, I thought he looked off the pace in 2021. Maybe he wasn't at full fitness, but hopefully he will get back to his 2019 fitness/pace levels, I'm not sure he if is a corner back of a defensive/marking wing back, but he definitely has grit.
Defensively we have Stephen McMenamin, Caolan Ward, Brendan McCole, Neil McGee, Jack McKelvey, Tony McClenaghan, Eoghan Ban Gallagher, Paul Brennan. Selection is dependant on who we are playing,
Ryan McHugh should be played at left wing forward, we need more gritty players at wing back.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1112 - 10/01/2022 16:01:57
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Basing my views on what I've seen from Bonner's team over the years, I hope I'm wrong and I hope he's bringing the Sam Maguire back to the Rosses in late July or whenever the final is to be but in my opinion Donegal should have had a change of management after the Cavan disaster in 2020,
I'm just an ordinary fan with my own opinion, same as anyone else, nothing I'd like more than to see Donegal competing at the very top and having another chance to land the Sam Maguire. I believe we have the talent, we have potential if manged correctly, I just don't believe we have the right man in charge, he doesn't fill me with confidence put it that way." Well I suspect its his last season in charge now unless he wins the All Ireland or has a serious tilt at it (AI SF+).
The problem for the last few seasons is that the Management team seem unable to settle on a starting lineup, they don't know who their strongest back six is, which is strange entering their 4th year in charge. McGuinness was more decisive, if he was missing a player for a position, he adapted a player for the job. I get the impression that the current management team don't really do that or aren't sure.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1112 - 10/01/2022 16:17:21
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Donegal 5-16 Antrim 1-10 in the hurling. Should be pointed out that Antrim fielded their U20 team since their seniors are competing in the Walsh Cup." I was reading an article by Mickie McCann where he reckons they are the greatest Donegal hurling team yet, they won with a few key players out.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1112 - 10/01/2022 16:25:29
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Replying To Commodore: "McFadden Ferry had an outstanding first year in 2019, but after being away in 2020, I thought he looked off the pace in 2021. Maybe he wasn't at full fitness, but hopefully he will get back to his 2019 fitness/pace levels, I'm not sure he if is a corner back of a defensive/marking wing back, but he definitely has grit.
Defensively we have Stephen McMenamin, Caolan Ward, Brendan McCole, Neil McGee, Jack McKelvey, Tony McClenaghan, Eoghan Ban Gallagher, Paul Brennan. Selection is dependant on who we are playing,
Ryan McHugh should be played at left wing forward, we need more gritty players at wing back." Yeah if we could get the likes of McF-F & McMenamin fully fit & sharp, and perhaps more importantly that they remain injury free, then that immediately addresses some of the concerns regarding grit or meanness, whatever you want to call it.
There's no doubt that we have a talented crop of players. My own feeling is that we've slipped back into the days of being a decent team, capable certainly of beating anyone on our day. But not a team that the very best fear anymore. In and around 2018/2019, apart from Dublin obviously, I felt that we could mix it with the likes of Kerry, Mayo and definitely Tyrone. But we haven't progressed. The fact that we haven't made an AI semi final since 2014 speaks volumes.
I'd have us at a similar level to Galway now. Lots of talented players but if I'm honest, when it comes down to the real nitty gritty of a tight Championship game I'd have nagging doubts. Would a different management team have made a difference? Possibly. But I'd ask the question - if not Bonner & Rochford then who realistically?
But look, no point in being overly pessimistic. We'll always produce good footballers. There is a real opportunity to reach an Ulster final given the draw. I think that if we don't make the Ulster final at least, or make the quarter finals then change will justifiably be called for.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9133 - 11/01/2022 10:51:52
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah if we could get the likes of McF-F & McMenamin fully fit & sharp, and perhaps more importantly that they remain injury free, then that immediately addresses some of the concerns regarding grit or meanness, whatever you want to call it.
There's no doubt that we have a talented crop of players. My own feeling is that we've slipped back into the days of being a decent team, capable certainly of beating anyone on our day. But not a team that the very best fear anymore. In and around 2018/2019, apart from Dublin obviously, I felt that we could mix it with the likes of Kerry, Mayo and definitely Tyrone. But we haven't progressed. The fact that we haven't made an AI semi final since 2014 speaks volumes.
I'd have us at a similar level to Galway now. Lots of talented players but if I'm honest, when it comes down to the real nitty gritty of a tight Championship game I'd have nagging doubts. Would a different management team have made a difference? Possibly. But I'd ask the question - if not Bonner & Rochford then who realistically?
But look, no point in being overly pessimistic. We'll always produce good footballers. There is a real opportunity to reach an Ulster final given the draw. I think that if we don't make the Ulster final at least, or make the quarter finals then change will justifiably be called for." From what I gather there will be no qualifiers this year but instead QFs - I suppose HQ have to make their money back some way!
Connacht V Ulster
Leinster V Munster
If you were to make it to an Ulster final (win or lose) we would most likely play Mayo/Galway or Roscommon. We shouldn't fear either TBH, certainly a better proposition than Kerry or the Dubs! If we can make it to an Ulster final we have a great chance to finally get back to an AI semi final.
peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 800 - 11/01/2022 12:40:36
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Replying To peiledoir20: "From what I gather there will be no qualifiers this year but instead QFs - I suppose HQ have to make their money back some way!
Connacht V Ulster
Leinster V Munster
If you were to make it to an Ulster final (win or lose) we would most likely play Mayo/Galway or Roscommon. We shouldn't fear either TBH, certainly a better proposition than Kerry or the Dubs! If we can make it to an Ulster final we have a great chance to finally get back to an AI semi final." Are there no qualifiers this year? I wasn't aware of that. So if we make the Ulster final we're guaranteed a day out in Croke Park for a quarter final. On the other hand, if we lose to Armagh at home then that's it? County football finished for the year before we reach May?
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9133 - 11/01/2022 13:30:28
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Replying To peiledoir20: "From what I gather there will be no qualifiers this year but instead QFs - I suppose HQ have to make their money back some way!
Connacht V Ulster
Leinster V Munster
If you were to make it to an Ulster final (win or lose) we would most likely play Mayo/Galway or Roscommon. We shouldn't fear either TBH, certainly a better proposition than Kerry or the Dubs! If we can make it to an Ulster final we have a great chance to finally get back to an AI semi final." Think there is qualifers? Can someone confirm.?
TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1142 - 11/01/2022 14:12:34
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Replying To TheRock2121: "Think there is qualifers? Can someone confirm.?" There are qualifiers. But instead of four qualifying games there are only two, because of the tailtean cup. So every team will have at least two games.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2401 - 11/01/2022 14:36:10
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Replying To Commodore: "I was frustrated at paying €12 to stream it, and only see about 60% due to technical issues!!
It's opening round of McKenna Cup, its about dusting off the cobwebs and giving new players a run out before the League.
Tony 'The Bull' McClenaghan is potentially our Kieran McGeery, he is the natural left wing back if he can stay fit and finally get a run in the team. He is physically tough and showed he can attack if needed. I have been a fan of his for a few years now, but he just couldn't get a clear run of it with injuries etc. I'd like to see him get a run at right left wing back for the National League.
Conor O'Donnell has something about him, his shooting was not great against Down, but his movement and physical stature definitely indicate he has serious potential.
Caolan Ward is one of our best defenders in recent seasons, If he isn't getting into the full back line in the National League, Declan should consider him as No 6 Center half back.
Looking at our shortcomings in 2021, we failed to find the right balance at half back and full back, and our defenders were too stand offish and lacked physicality, which was highlighted repeatedly in National League and ChampionshIp. Thats what I will be looking closely at during the National League, that will show whether we have progressed or not." Always liked Caolan Ward and i think he should definitely be consider at 2/4 especially over Eoghan Ban who should be playing at half back fro sure. Tony looked good on Friday. As for debutants I don't think any of them showed that they should be in the starting lineup but more bench players. harsh but true
naomh_conaill_4 (Donegal) - Posts: 481 - 11/01/2022 15:01:59
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