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Roscommon GAA thread

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Replying To SpanishRossie:  "I myself would hope that the Roscommon management would take heed of what James Horan did. Walking away after a four year term for the betterment of the county, even though they won national leagues and took Dublin off their perch and reached two more All-Ireland finals under him. A classy act by the man to move on I thought. And this business of no other manager will take us on is bull. Roscommon have class all over the field and could put it up to anyone when at their best but that best is what's missing now and can only be brought out by a high energy, focused, experienced football manager ideally with AI success behind them and who is dedicated to seeing Roscommon grow as a team . People saying Roscommon have reached their ceiling is not true. All teams at that level can either push on and upward like Derry / Galway / Armagh. Or they can give up the ghost and drop down through the divisions again. It's essential we get a change of energy into that team this year. One championship win over a D4 team in years and we're still happy to keep on the hurling man and a backroon team that is very inexperienced at intercounty level?"
The pool of managers with AI success is very small. One of them is currently managing Kerry, another one Dublin and another two at Tyrone. The shortlist for recruiting then goes to Fitzmaurice, Gavin and McGuinness. I can't see any of them going near Roscommon. The only one I can think of going further back still involved is Harte. But it would be good to get an ex player who's had AI success involved in the backroom team. Similar to Donaghy at Armagh. Is there anyone in previous Dublin panels that has Ros connections who'd be interested in coaching?

Think it's unfair to say Cunningham is just a hurling man when he has been involved in football nearly as much.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 28/06/2022 20:42:17    2428480

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Have too many of our players too much mileage on the clock?
They're not that old in years but have minds and bodies said "enough"?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 373 - 29/06/2022 11:06:04    2428560

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Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "The pool of managers with AI success is very small. One of them is currently managing Kerry, another one Dublin and another two at Tyrone. The shortlist for recruiting then goes to Fitzmaurice, Gavin and McGuinness. I can't see any of them going near Roscommon. The only one I can think of going further back still involved is Harte. But it would be good to get an ex player who's had AI success involved in the backroom team. Similar to Donaghy at Armagh. Is there anyone in previous Dublin panels that has Ros connections who'd be interested in coaching?

Think it's unfair to say Cunningham is just a hurling man when he has been involved in football nearly as much."
Fair enough, AC's not just a hurling man so that was a bit harsh. But if he stays, Roscommon will not survive in Division 1 next year, and will get nowhere near a connacht title.

Also, just seen that Banty's leaving Monaghan - this frees up Donie Buckley. If anyone has Buckley's mobile number kindly pass it onto the County Board as soon as possible! Apparently Buckley's the source of Mayo's ferocious ability to tackle and turn teams over in their own half, a trait they still have and that has saved them in countless games. If it's one thing we need in our game it is this.

SpanishRossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 7 - 29/06/2022 14:47:48    2428654

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Replying To endgame:  "Good post. Absolutely agree. But Anthony Cunningham will go nowhere unless the County Board say Au Revoir and I doubt the County Board has the imagination to go looking for a new Manager. Horan did a great job in his 2 spells with Mayo. Yes the ultimate prize of the All Ireland evaded him as indeed it has evaded every Mayo Manager since 1951 but Horan turned Mayo into a very professional team winning the League and six Connacht titles. Over the past 15 years, Mayo haven't been much better than Roscommon at underage so he really didn't have much more material to play with than us but he made it pay. When Mayo look back, last year was a real missed opportunity because that Tyrone team was very beatable in the Final."
Term 1 Horan took over Mayo off the back of a 4 in a row Connacht U21 winning team. 2006 to 2009 the former team won the AI and he'd build his senior team around those four teams Boyle, Higgins, O'Sheas, Barrett, Keegan to name but a few.

Term two there 2016 U21 All winners and 2018 U20 runners up too filter into already strong base. The likes of Ruane, Coen, Plunkett, O'Donoghue, Mullin, Flynn etc

The way Tyrone played on the day they weren't that beatable at all. Full of intensity aggression determination to get over the line once taking out Kerry they weren't going to be denied and Mayo clearly were as strong as their 2013 to 2017 teams to win anyway.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2902 - 29/06/2022 15:31:53    2428670

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"Over the past 15 years, Mayo haven't been much better than Roscommon at underage so he really didn't have much more material to play with than us but he made it pay"

Sorry but that's a daft statement. Mayo have had much more talent than Roscommon.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11001 - 29/06/2022 17:55:29    2428706

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Term 1 Horan took over Mayo off the back of a 4 in a row Connacht U21 winning team. 2006 to 2009 the former team won the AI and he'd build his senior team around those four teams Boyle, Higgins, O'Sheas, Barrett, Keegan to name but a few.

Term two there 2016 U21 All winners and 2018 U20 runners up too filter into already strong base. The likes of Ruane, Coen, Plunkett, O'Donoghue, Mullin, Flynn etc

The way Tyrone played on the day they weren't that beatable at all. Full of intensity aggression determination to get over the line once taking out Kerry they weren't going to be denied and Mayo clearly were as strong as their 2013 to 2017 teams to win anyway."
Mayo have always been strong at underage but haven't always brought it through to senior. Roscommon only won a single Connacht U21 title in 29 years ( 1982- 2011) but we then won four in six years and lost two Finals we should have won. A huge base to build on .I had hoped Roscommon would have got to an All Ireland senior Final on the back of that underage success but we haven't even got close. As for Tyrone last year, they were good but hardly as good as the Dublin 6 in a row team. 2021 was a big chance for Mayo but of course Mayo were not at the level they had been at in 2016/2017. Mayo will rebuild now. The core of Roscommon's team is young enough to succeed under the right direction and leadership.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 29/06/2022 18:02:04    2428710

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Replying To SpanishRossie:  "Fair enough, AC's not just a hurling man so that was a bit harsh. But if he stays, Roscommon will not survive in Division 1 next year, and will get nowhere near a connacht title.

Also, just seen that Banty's leaving Monaghan - this frees up Donie Buckley. If anyone has Buckley's mobile number kindly pass it onto the County Board as soon as possible! Apparently Buckley's the source of Mayo's ferocious ability to tackle and turn teams over in their own half, a trait they still have and that has saved them in countless games. If it's one thing we need in our game it is this."
You're right, the county board need to be breaking their necks to get Buckley. No point in waiting around, he'll be snapped up. They need to do a Don Corleone on it.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 29/06/2022 18:47:05    2428722

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Replying To endgame:  "Mayo have always been strong at underage but haven't always brought it through to senior. Roscommon only won a single Connacht U21 title in 29 years ( 1982- 2011) but we then won four in six years and lost two Finals we should have won. A huge base to build on .I had hoped Roscommon would have got to an All Ireland senior Final on the back of that underage success but we haven't even got close. As for Tyrone last year, they were good but hardly as good as the Dublin 6 in a row team. 2021 was a big chance for Mayo but of course Mayo were not at the level they had been at in 2016/2017. Mayo will rebuild now. The core of Roscommon's team is young enough to succeed under the right direction and leadership."
Mayo are not always strong at underage level. Tyrone last year was as good if not better than Dublin 2020. Was a few other finals that was there to be won for Mayo 2013 and 2016 drawn final certainly but because Dublin won "6 in a row" people tend to forget that.

When Roscommon won four U21 Connacht in six years the senior team started out a middle of the road Div 3. Rose up to win what is it now 4 Div 2 titles and a couple of Connacht titles. The last of those Connacht U21 winning teams was in 2015 so seems the best has already been got out of them and peak years to make maximum impact was perhaps 2016 to 2019.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2902 - 30/06/2022 13:43:17    2428818

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Mayo are not always strong at underage level. Tyrone last year was as good if not better than Dublin 2020. Was a few other finals that was there to be won for Mayo 2013 and 2016 drawn final certainly but because Dublin won "6 in a row" people tend to forget that.

When Roscommon won four U21 Connacht in six years the senior team started out a middle of the road Div 3. Rose up to win what is it now 4 Div 2 titles and a couple of Connacht titles. The last of those Connacht U21 winning teams was in 2015 so seems the best has already been got out of them and peak years to make maximum impact was perhaps 2016 to 2019."
Mayo are pretty much always strong at underage. To say otherwise is just being argumentative. Mayo have 40 Connacht minor titles. Roscommon have 14. Mayo have 25 Connacht U21/20 titles. We have 10. No doubt but that Mayo had big chances to win the Finals in 2013, 16 and 17. Defeats by 1 point, 1 point in a replay and 1 point. Couldn't close it out. As for Roscommon, who are our concern, players from those U21 teams like Ultan Harney, Enda Smith, Diarmuid Murtagh are still in their prime. We should be going a lot better at senior and we all know that. I agree with other posters who would like to see Donie Buckley brought in. He put strength, structure and good tackling into the Mayo Defence and it's still there. Last Sunday again their shooting cost them . Roscommon's defending is costing us so give Buckley a chance with the team.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 30/06/2022 15:09:06    2428849

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Replying To endgame:  "Mayo are pretty much always strong at underage. To say otherwise is just being argumentative. Mayo have 40 Connacht minor titles. Roscommon have 14. Mayo have 25 Connacht U21/20 titles. We have 10. No doubt but that Mayo had big chances to win the Finals in 2013, 16 and 17. Defeats by 1 point, 1 point in a replay and 1 point. Couldn't close it out. As for Roscommon, who are our concern, players from those U21 teams like Ultan Harney, Enda Smith, Diarmuid Murtagh are still in their prime. We should be going a lot better at senior and we all know that. I agree with other posters who would like to see Donie Buckley brought in. He put strength, structure and good tackling into the Mayo Defence and it's still there. Last Sunday again their shooting cost them . Roscommon's defending is costing us so give Buckley a chance with the team."
I agree with you endgame. Donie Buckley might well be the missing part of the jig-saw. Your also right that Ultan Harney, Enda Smith and Diarmuid Murtagh and many others are still in their prime, and with some of the under 20 All Ireland final team also coming through, staying in division 1 should be the objective, while also pushing hard to win Connacht & pushing hard for an All Ireland semi-final. I believe that if the team improves defensively (with Donie Buckley or another top defensive coach) and our mid-field and forwards perform to their ability, then both those objectives are achievable next year. We were winners of division 2 and now Galway or Derry will be in an All Ireland final and have a real chance of winning it.
We need to be a little optimistic as it is a very long wait to our next competitive inter county game. Otherwise the winter months will be very long!!!

letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 77 - 30/06/2022 16:13:17    2428869

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "I agree with you endgame. Donie Buckley might well be the missing part of the jig-saw. Your also right that Ultan Harney, Enda Smith and Diarmuid Murtagh and many others are still in their prime, and with some of the under 20 All Ireland final team also coming through, staying in division 1 should be the objective, while also pushing hard to win Connacht & pushing hard for an All Ireland semi-final. I believe that if the team improves defensively (with Donie Buckley or another top defensive coach) and our mid-field and forwards perform to their ability, then both those objectives are achievable next year. We were winners of division 2 and now Galway or Derry will be in an All Ireland final and have a real chance of winning it.
We need to be a little optimistic as it is a very long wait to our next competitive inter county game. Otherwise the winter months will be very long!!!"
I would hope that the CB or Manager would be preparing now for 23.
If they go to sleep as many do and only start trying to put a backroom together in October and finalising a panel from November we'll be found wanting at the cutting edge again.
Next year there will be no block of training time as NFL, Provincial and AI will be running into each other.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 373 - 30/06/2022 16:40:28    2428881

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We approached Donie Buckley twice and he declined due to having another job already lined up. He'll be well in demand now that's he's available.

We also had a few managers and coaches that said no to us due to the lack of facilities to train and prepare players that's on the county board who are still searching for a plot of land for a training centre.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3203 - 30/06/2022 16:49:09    2428884

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In the absence if a training centre can we do a deal with whatever Athlone IT is called now?
Also some use of Bekan seeing as the Money to provide facilities in the 5 Counties was spent on that ********

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 373 - 30/06/2022 17:13:02    2428886

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Replying To yew_tree:  ""Over the past 15 years, Mayo haven't been much better than Roscommon at underage so he really didn't have much more material to play with than us but he made it pay"

Sorry but that's a daft statement. Mayo have had much more talent than Roscommon."
22 meetings between us (2007 to 2022) at U17,U18,U20 and U21 level Mayo wins 12 Roscommon 10 wins
Connacht titles won in that period Mayo 12 Roscommon 9. (a few of those titles we left behind us against Mayo)

If one was to judge senior purely off the back of underage talent and success then Mayo have overachieved to have reached the amount of AI finals and semi finals the last decade while we have underachieved not to at least reach All Ireland semi final.

However there is a lot more to senior level than just talent and success at underage. One key component especially nowadays at senior level is strength and conditioning and we were trailing behind the top 6 in that area under various managers and while it has improved under Cunningham how much will be truly seen with a real congested season and no real breaks between league and championship. Basically the fittest and most conditioned teams with the best strength in depth will reach the last 8 next year.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3203 - 30/06/2022 17:53:22    2428897

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Replying To endgame:  "Mayo are pretty much always strong at underage. To say otherwise is just being argumentative. Mayo have 40 Connacht minor titles. Roscommon have 14. Mayo have 25 Connacht U21/20 titles. We have 10. No doubt but that Mayo had big chances to win the Finals in 2013, 16 and 17. Defeats by 1 point, 1 point in a replay and 1 point. Couldn't close it out. As for Roscommon, who are our concern, players from those U21 teams like Ultan Harney, Enda Smith, Diarmuid Murtagh are still in their prime. We should be going a lot better at senior and we all know that. I agree with other posters who would like to see Donie Buckley brought in. He put strength, structure and good tackling into the Mayo Defence and it's still there. Last Sunday again their shooting cost them . Roscommon's defending is costing us so give Buckley a chance with the team."
I think that crop of U21s were unlucky that they nearly had to carry the can straight away after being brought into the senior set up. No disrespect to any of the players of the time but Roscommon were in the doldrums with only one Connacht title between 2001 and 2016. Our U21s didn't have the luxury of being drafted into a side which had player's experienced in playing at the business end of the championship or even Div 1 experience like Mayo, Galway, Donegal etc. Maybe they would have been brought on more in the early years and achieved more had they went into such a set up. Credit to them, they had to manufacture a winning mentality almost by themselves. Hopefully they are now the players to help bring on the younger lads coming into the panel and although they may not have been in quaters or semi's, they've got Div 1 experience, won a few Connachts and competed in the Super 8s which is a lot more than the set up they went into.

How are our underage structures? We've had recent success in minor and U20 but it seems this year was one to write off.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 227 - 30/06/2022 18:51:07    2428903

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Replying To The_analyser:  "22 meetings between us (2007 to 2022) at U17,U18,U20 and U21 level Mayo wins 12 Roscommon 10 wins
Connacht titles won in that period Mayo 12 Roscommon 9. (a few of those titles we left behind us against Mayo)

If one was to judge senior purely off the back of underage talent and success then Mayo have overachieved to have reached the amount of AI finals and semi finals the last decade while we have underachieved not to at least reach All Ireland semi final.

However there is a lot more to senior level than just talent and success at underage. One key component especially nowadays at senior level is strength and conditioning and we were trailing behind the top 6 in that area under various managers and while it has improved under Cunningham how much will be truly seen with a real congested season and no real breaks between league and championship. Basically the fittest and most conditioned teams with the best strength in depth will reach the last 8 next year."
I don't base underage success on wins. It's about progression, nurturing and developing players. If you win an all Ireland great, but it's just a bonus in the grand scheme of things. If Mayo can get 3 or 5 quality senior players eventually out of this current minor team for example then it's a job well done.

Mayo being at the business end of the championship most years since I can remember shows we have better talent than Roscommon. But that's not blowing my trumpet because we have failed to deliver Sam and anything less is no deemed failure (which is no bad thing).

Of course population comes into it and I'm not taking a dig. I think Roscommon do very well considering your population but some posters here seem to be over rating some of your players and chances. That's just my opinion of course.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11001 - 01/07/2022 19:49:29    2429098

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I don't base underage success on wins. It's about progression, nurturing and developing players. If you win an all Ireland great, but it's just a bonus in the grand scheme of things. If Mayo can get 3 or 5 quality senior players eventually out of this current minor team for example then it's a job well done.

Mayo being at the business end of the championship most years since I can remember shows we have better talent than Roscommon. But that's not blowing my trumpet because we have failed to deliver Sam and anything less is no deemed failure (which is no bad thing).

Of course population comes into it and I'm not taking a dig. I think Roscommon do very well considering your population but some posters here seem to be over rating some of your players and chances. That's just my opinion of course."
Yew Tree Roscommon's population in the latest census is a handful under 70,000. Plenty population to have a good football team if the right structures are in place. Agree that it's about bringing underage players up to senior and analyser posted here about the strength and conditioning requirements in that. It is however hard to have senior success without having had underage success. Dublin beat Roscommon in All Ireland U21 Finals in 2012 and 2014. From those teams, the Dublin senior team have got Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton, Jack McCaffrey,Paul Mannion, Niall Scully, John Small , Robbie McDaid and Cormac Costello. I'm disappointed with what Roscommon have achieved from those underage teams when you see what the Dubs have done. We haven't even got to an All Ireland semi final with them. I thought we'd have done better than that. James Horan has left ye after another 4 year stint. 2 Connacht titles and 2 All Ireland Final appearances is good again but of course no Mayo Manager will be deemed a success unless they win the All Ireland. 4 years is enough for any Manager unless he's Brian Cody or Mick O'Dwyer. We have a Manager who wants to go into a 5th season and he's only won 1 championship match in the last 3 years and that against a 14 man Division 4 team. It would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1767 - 02/07/2022 11:43:08    2429149

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Replying To endgame:  "Yew Tree Roscommon's population in the latest census is a handful under 70,000. Plenty population to have a good football team if the right structures are in place. Agree that it's about bringing underage players up to senior and analyser posted here about the strength and conditioning requirements in that. It is however hard to have senior success without having had underage success. Dublin beat Roscommon in All Ireland U21 Finals in 2012 and 2014. From those teams, the Dublin senior team have got Ciaran Kilkenny, Brian Fenton, Jack McCaffrey,Paul Mannion, Niall Scully, John Small , Robbie McDaid and Cormac Costello. I'm disappointed with what Roscommon have achieved from those underage teams when you see what the Dubs have done. We haven't even got to an All Ireland semi final with them. I thought we'd have done better than that. James Horan has left ye after another 4 year stint. 2 Connacht titles and 2 All Ireland Final appearances is good again but of course no Mayo Manager will be deemed a success unless they win the All Ireland. 4 years is enough for any Manager unless he's Brian Cody or Mick O'Dwyer. We have a Manager who wants to go into a 5th season and he's only won 1 championship match in the last 3 years and that against a 14 man Division 4 team. It would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous."
Fair enough. But I guess talk of getting to all Ireland senior finals (as I've seen commented here) for Roscommon is putting the cart before the horse. Try winning championship games in Croke Park first…being competitive at the business end of the championship.
Roscommon have some very good forwards who can match up to anyone on their day but successful and winning teams are build on their defence first. 1980 was the last win for ye in Croke Park for a championship game which is almost unbelievable for a football mad county.

That first day in 2017 v us was a real chance for ye.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11001 - 02/07/2022 13:28:37    2429175

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in the latest census is a handful under 70,000. Plenty population to have a good football team if the right structures are in place.

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Yes it is but reaching All-Ireland final? How many counties under the population of 100k has reached the senior AI the last 30 years?

Yondu (UK) - Posts: 672 - 02/07/2022 14:40:31    2429206

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Replying To Yondu:  "in the latest census is a handful under 70,000. Plenty population to have a good football team if the right structures are in place.

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Yes it is but reaching All-Ireland final? How many counties under the population of 100k has reached the senior AI the last 30 years?"
In fairness population is over egged. Ros have always being a good football County in my lifetime and like Mayo football is absolute priority. This helps and the Ros poster who mentioned this earlier is correct about structures in that if Ros get this even more correct in the coming years they will be consistently competitive in senior football. Dual counties don't always have this luxury as both codes are often competing for the same resource be it financial, sponsorship or facilities.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1890 - 02/07/2022 15:07:01    2429212

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