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Replying To Whammo86:  "If the Green plan didn't include finalists I think it'd be a great system.

In Connacht you could have Leitrim beat London to reach a Connacht final to qualify."
Happy New Year Whammo !
Yes, indeed - I agree as you are saying the McGuinness Plan (4 Champs, 11 Other NFL highest and prior year Tier 2 Champ) is better than Kelly's.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2170 - 08/01/2022 18:20:13    2394123

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "To be honest, I'm still underwhelmed with these 2 proposals, still we'll have to chose 1, God knows what that'll be.

We could do with more games, a max 14 games in 27 weeks isn't a lot."
I'm underwhelmed too.

The Super 8 showed that those 4-team groups are not too exciting - dead rubbers are more likely than in the World Cup, as the draw frequency in GAA is lower than soccer and produces a lower quantity of likely possible outcomes.

And now the Kelly Plan might double down - to 4 groups of 4.

I'd rather merge those 3 group games into a longer NFL of 10 games per team - with 10 team Div 1A v 10 team Div 1B - top 8 of combined 20 teams to AI KO QFs and 4 down (17th to 20th).

Div 2 South and Div 2 North (6 teams each) play a 10 game regional double round robin - top 3 in each to AI Tier 2 KO (2v3 in crossover KO QFs) and SF 4 go up.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2170 - 08/01/2022 19:23:21    2394131

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Replying To Whammo86:  "If the Green plan didn't include finalists I think it'd be a great system.

In Connacht you could have Leitrim beat London to reach a Connacht final to qualify."
Better than the current system. Changes can always be made later on.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 597 - 09/01/2022 08:02:24    2394150

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Replying To omahant:  "Happy New Year Whammo !
Yes, indeed - I agree as you are saying the McGuinness Plan (4 Champs, 11 Other NFL highest and prior year Tier 2 Champ) is better than Kelly's."
Logical. 5 Trophy winners and rest on merit per League finishing position.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 516 - 09/01/2022 12:47:10    2394182

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Better than the current system. Changes can always be made later on."
Or just make a logical change from the get go?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 09/01/2022 13:40:31    2394189

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Better than the current system. Changes can always be made later on."
I would go with it over the status quo or the other 1a/1b 2a/2b structure

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 09/01/2022 14:06:57    2394194

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Or just make a logical change from the get go?"
Not if it risks another proposal going down because it doesn't get 60%. We need change and this drive for a perfect proposal is preventing that.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 597 - 09/01/2022 15:54:14    2394217

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It isn't the Green Plan or the Mc Guiness plan, it is the Kelly Plan !
If you didn't read the self promoting article by the MEP Sean Kelly in the Irish Examiner, you may not be aware that it is to be termed the Kelly Plan. Indeed, it is referred to as the Kelly Plan 11 times within the article in case you might forget.
He also in true political style, name checked many within the media including Joe Brolly (never thought I'd see the day that Joe became an insider), the GAA hierarchy from Uachtaran to Ard Stiurothoir, the GPA, to ensure the vote will succeed at Congress. He had a shot across the bows of those who voted against the previous proposals & how they voted. I wonder how Sean himself voted on the motion on transparency put forward to Congress by the CPA in 2018, the irony of it all.
The proposal for the "Kelly Plan" was for Inter County from February to August, meaning County managers having players back from December on. Not a mention about club players who obviously are an after thought as usual & sandwiched in the months of Sept to November. That 98% of the membership don't even come into consideration shows the direction the Association has taken, it's all about high profile Inter County & all those gaining from it, be it politically, power wise, those making vast amounts of money as managers or Backroom teams, to those in the print media & the TV rights who now make huge sums of money from it.
The club players from 16 to adult level leaving the Association in droves are an after thought & that is clearly evident in the "Kelly Plan", nearly mentioned it as many times as himself !

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 10/01/2022 11:26:39    2394358

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Replying To moc.dna:  "It isn't the Green Plan or the Mc Guiness plan, it is the Kelly Plan !
If you didn't read the self promoting article by the MEP Sean Kelly in the Irish Examiner, you may not be aware that it is to be termed the Kelly Plan. Indeed, it is referred to as the Kelly Plan 11 times within the article in case you might forget.
He also in true political style, name checked many within the media including Joe Brolly (never thought I'd see the day that Joe became an insider), the GAA hierarchy from Uachtaran to Ard Stiurothoir, the GPA, to ensure the vote will succeed at Congress. He had a shot across the bows of those who voted against the previous proposals & how they voted. I wonder how Sean himself voted on the motion on transparency put forward to Congress by the CPA in 2018, the irony of it all.
The proposal for the "Kelly Plan" was for Inter County from February to August, meaning County managers having players back from December on. Not a mention about club players who obviously are an after thought as usual & sandwiched in the months of Sept to November. That 98% of the membership don't even come into consideration shows the direction the Association has taken, it's all about high profile Inter County & all those gaining from it, be it politically, power wise, those making vast amounts of money as managers or Backroom teams, to those in the print media & the TV rights who now make huge sums of money from it.
The club players from 16 to adult level leaving the Association in droves are an after thought & that is clearly evident in the "Kelly Plan", nearly mentioned it as many times as himself !"
Take a break from the drink.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 597 - 10/01/2022 12:24:29    2394367

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Replying To moc.dna:  "It isn't the Green Plan or the Mc Guiness plan, it is the Kelly Plan !
If you didn't read the self promoting article by the MEP Sean Kelly in the Irish Examiner, you may not be aware that it is to be termed the Kelly Plan. Indeed, it is referred to as the Kelly Plan 11 times within the article in case you might forget.
He also in true political style, name checked many within the media including Joe Brolly (never thought I'd see the day that Joe became an insider), the GAA hierarchy from Uachtaran to Ard Stiurothoir, the GPA, to ensure the vote will succeed at Congress. He had a shot across the bows of those who voted against the previous proposals & how they voted. I wonder how Sean himself voted on the motion on transparency put forward to Congress by the CPA in 2018, the irony of it all.
The proposal for the "Kelly Plan" was for Inter County from February to August, meaning County managers having players back from December on. Not a mention about club players who obviously are an after thought as usual & sandwiched in the months of Sept to November. That 98% of the membership don't even come into consideration shows the direction the Association has taken, it's all about high profile Inter County & all those gaining from it, be it politically, power wise, those making vast amounts of money as managers or Backroom teams, to those in the print media & the TV rights who now make huge sums of money from it.
The club players from 16 to adult level leaving the Association in droves are an after thought & that is clearly evident in the "Kelly Plan", nearly mentioned it as many times as himself !"
Maybe clubs could provide for the rest of their players and just play games all through the summer and if it means club championships are played to some degree without inter county players then so be it as something has to be done
club players will always be put to worst time of year unless they do something to change it themselves not wait or try and hope the delegates on county boards, provincial councils and full time staff in croke park etc do anything about it

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2875 - 10/01/2022 13:26:43    2394387

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Maybe clubs could provide for the rest of their players and just play games all through the summer and if it means club championships are played to some degree without inter county players then so be it as something has to be done
club players will always be put to worst time of year unless they do something to change it themselves not wait or try and hope the delegates on county boards, provincial councils and full time staff in croke park etc do anything about it"
The CPA attempted to help the club players but it kept fighting an uphill battle against Croke Park, such was the opposition it met. The fact the GAA failed to recognise them, shows the level of disinterest at the top level towards the club situation.
I agree with you, the clubs need to wrest back control & possibly need to set up a an autonomous organisation with their own set up, keeping their registration & afiliation fees from Croke Park & all TV rights monies from club games. That might pique the interest of those at the top.
Regardless the appetite within the organisation is not there to help the club situation, other than the usual empty rhetoric we hear every year, it's all about Inter County & that is evident on here with all the armchair supporters.
I see huge numbers of boys, girls & young adults dropping out each year & I can tell you at schools level, the level of engagement has fallen dramatically in a decade. But anyhow, people can point out the obvious but if those in power have no interest, why would anyone else bother the ****. That is what happened at Primary & Post Primary level where teachers were taking for granted for decades, now all that voluntary base is all but disappeared,

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 10/01/2022 14:41:22    2394407

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Didn't the CPA dissolve themselves as their objectives were achieved with the new "Split season"?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 516 - 11/01/2022 10:46:19    2394499

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Didn't the CPA dissolve themselves as their objectives were achieved with the new "Split season"?"
Correct & then Covid came & the Inter County fixture list was changed meaning the club fixture scene had to be changed. I suppose the point is that year on year the schedules are been changed & club players are left till last to find out what there season is & in the case of some counties like Galway with football & hurling & dual clubs, they would be waiting till the county teams were knocked out. Most club players would have to check every weekend to see if they were playing, you can't plan anything, be it holidays, work, weddings etc. Fixture lists are not worth the paper they are printed on. Published Fixture Lists were a way of the GAA saying, oh we have taken action here, just spin. The contrast of this is other sporting organisations can set out fixtures up to 18 months in advance & adhere to them, it's not to much to ask for the same in the GAA. I am aware that most couldn't care less as they are armchair fans only interested in Inter County fixtures but if you don't look after the club level you have lost what is supposed to be the heartbeat of the Association. You can see it at club level every year with the majority of clubs & players have become blasé about playing GAA, they don't dedicate as they are not treated with respect. The CPA were a genuine group of people & brought forward genuine concerns & were given huge legitimacy by a most genuine man like Liam Griffin who really is a legend of the Association, yet no heed was given to him or the group & when people constantly come up against barriers they eventually tire & I would say become totally disllusioned with an organisation that most of them have invested their whole lives in & just walk away from it. Sadly the GAA has gone from being an organisation where we were all in it together voluntarily to an organisation where it's all about "what's in it for me".

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 11/01/2022 13:45:27    2394524

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Correct & then Covid came & the Inter County fixture list was changed meaning the club fixture scene had to be changed. I suppose the point is that year on year the schedules are been changed & club players are left till last to find out what there season is & in the case of some counties like Galway with football & hurling & dual clubs, they would be waiting till the county teams were knocked out. Most club players would have to check every weekend to see if they were playing, you can't plan anything, be it holidays, work, weddings etc. Fixture lists are not worth the paper they are printed on. Published Fixture Lists were a way of the GAA saying, oh we have taken action here, just spin. The contrast of this is other sporting organisations can set out fixtures up to 18 months in advance & adhere to them, it's not to much to ask for the same in the GAA. I am aware that most couldn't care less as they are armchair fans only interested in Inter County fixtures but if you don't look after the club level you have lost what is supposed to be the heartbeat of the Association. You can see it at club level every year with the majority of clubs & players have become blasé about playing GAA, they don't dedicate as they are not treated with respect. The CPA were a genuine group of people & brought forward genuine concerns & were given huge legitimacy by a most genuine man like Liam Griffin who really is a legend of the Association, yet no heed was given to him or the group & when people constantly come up against barriers they eventually tire & I would say become totally disllusioned with an organisation that most of them have invested their whole lives in & just walk away from it. Sadly the GAA has gone from being an organisation where we were all in it together voluntarily to an organisation where it's all about "what's in it for me"."
You do know that there was a pandemic that caused havoc with sporting fixtures universally?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 12/01/2022 13:14:41    2394620

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Replying To Whammo86:  "You do know that there was a pandemic that caused havoc with sporting fixtures universally?"
What is your excuse for all the other years there was no pandemic, usual apologist for the GAA stuff from you. Sorry for breaking up your domination of the post, I will leave it with you now.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 12/01/2022 13:52:00    2394625

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Replying To moc.dna:  "What is your excuse for all the other years there was no pandemic, usual apologist for the GAA stuff from you. Sorry for breaking up your domination of the post, I will leave it with you now."
They were terribly organised and didn't have a plan in place to deal with either the league moving to the calendar year or the introduction of the qualifiers.

It was a complete mess for years and I personally quit playing early because the fixtures were a mess, so the GAA deserves criticism but they have tried to improve things and circumstances have affected their ability to do so.

As for dictating the topic, at least I keep my posts on topic and just use them as a tenuous link to go on a paranoid rant about the state of the association or bad mouth an past official that you've a personal dislike of.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 12/01/2022 14:20:54    2394630

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Replying To moc.dna:  "What is your excuse for all the other years there was no pandemic, usual apologist for the GAA stuff from you. Sorry for breaking up your domination of the post, I will leave it with you now."
What about the snow that fell in 1947?
The "split season" model is only (hopefully) getting its first run out this year with Inter Co Senior AI Finals on 17th and 24th July.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 516 - 12/01/2022 14:44:59    2394639

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Replying To Whammo86:  "If the Green plan didn't include finalists I think it'd be a great system.

In Connacht you could have Leitrim beat London to reach a Connacht final to qualify."
Hon Leitrim!

But to answer your point seriously, London's first game in Connacht is always in Round 1, so it will never be Leitrim vs London to play for a final (unless London beat someone first)

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 796 - 19/01/2022 18:39:21    2395657

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With Provincial Councils and now the GPA favouring it, looks like the Green one will be the only proposal for Congress and should pass easily.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 516 - 20/01/2022 09:26:26    2395684

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "Hon Leitrim!

But to answer your point seriously, London's first game in Connacht is always in Round 1, so it will never be Leitrim vs London to play for a final (unless London beat someone first)"
In 2013 had Leitrim beaten London in the semifinals they'd have been into a Connacht final having played New York and London only. Sligo could get to a Connacht final winning one match versus the winner of a London v Leitrim quarterfinal tie. The point remains that I don't like the Provincial finalists get a spot in the All Ireland as there can be very sod pathways to Provincial finals and I'd rather division 2 teams get the nod over the Provincial finalists.

Maybe the compromise solution is:

Has provincial finalists that haven't qualified playing a playoff round v the worst ranked division 2 team that would make it.

I don't like the group stages in either tier in this proposal where 3 from 4 advance to the knockout round. Just feels like the blind fear of dead rubbers is rearing it's head and creating a low stakes group stage.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 20/01/2022 10:15:37    2395696

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