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Any word of the minor age group changing back to u18 being at Congress? This is far more important than any Proposal Red, green, yellow purple pink etc. Must Happen

TheLordofcavanGaa (Cavan) - Posts: 15 - 21/01/2022 19:44:59    2395906

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Replying To Whammo86:  "In 2013 had Leitrim beaten London in the semifinals they'd have been into a Connacht final having played New York and London only. Sligo could get to a Connacht final winning one match versus the winner of a London v Leitrim quarterfinal tie. The point remains that I don't like the Provincial finalists get a spot in the All Ireland as there can be very sod pathways to Provincial finals and I'd rather division 2 teams get the nod over the Provincial finalists.

Maybe the compromise solution is:

Has provincial finalists that haven't qualified playing a playoff round v the worst ranked division 2 team that would make it.

I don't like the group stages in either tier in this proposal where 3 from 4 advance to the knockout round. Just feels like the blind fear of dead rubbers is rearing it's head and creating a low stakes group stage."
I would agree on the beaten provincial finalists unfairness
Munster and Connacht are too lopsided for that to be considered fair

I would also agree on the 4 groups of 4
Would be better if there were 6 groups of 3 in Sam Maguire (provincial winners, previous years B winners and 10 best placed from league) 6 group winners go through and the 6 2nd placed teams play off for 2 Q final places

5 groups of 3 in taillteann cup - (bottom 14 in league plus NY)

(having gone to the Mayo v New York match a few years ago - ye all should get a chance to go on a jolly over there)

Anything is better than what we have but I'm still in favour of getting rid of provincials completely

Have a league based only div 1A/2A - 2A/2B in spring
Then have a championship (World Cup style groups of 3) drawn on a regional split with a top 18 in A and bottom 15 in B
I thought last years league (regional groups) was a great basis for championship groups because you retain provincial/regional rivalries

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 988 - 22/01/2022 08:58:01    2395922

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Replying To TheLordofcavanGaa:  "Any word of the minor age group changing back to u18 being at Congress? This is far more important than any Proposal Red, green, yellow purple pink etc. Must Happen"
Absolutely, that would be great to have it back at U18.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/01/2022 12:29:33    2395935

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Replying To TheLordofcavanGaa:  "Any word of the minor age group changing back to u18 being at Congress? This is far more important than any Proposal Red, green, yellow purple pink etc. Must Happen"
Of course it should happen, but this is the GAA, can't be seen to reverse changes made by high ranking officials.

U17 grade has lead to very young players who are still developing physically, being put through mad training regimes similar to senior inter county level by glory hunting managers. The damage been done to young players physically with knee & hip injuries is serious & we have had some of the top consultants in the medical field come out saying that the extent of the wear & injuries is akin to adults who have had years of exposure at the top level.
The burnout factor is also massive along with the dropout rate & many of these players are never heard of again.
One such inter county manager at underage who implemented a regime where people couldn't have summer jobs or play other sports & deemed parents who had concerns as helicopter parents, boasted of the record number of training sessions & challenge games & was amazingly put on a committee overseeing player welfare, by an ex President of the Association, you couldn't make it up.
Many of these managers succeed at U17 as young lads are mad keen to go at it, but they don't succeed as they go up the ladder as players are more aware of their rights & looking after themselves on & off the field.

The competitions should revert back to U18 & U21 with strict rules on who can play, i.e. cant play both in same year, must be a minimum age, strict rules on number of training sessions & games & more education on player welfare, separate season to Sigerson & Fitzgibbon, strict punishments on counties & managers who don't adhere to the rules. The same could be said of Development squads at all age levels which have become elitist in the extreme. Development squads are a joke, the key to it all is in the word Development, it should be all about developing skills & physically & mentally. Yet, you see players who have been right through the system & can only use their strong foot or hand, I saw one lad who went through the system & he couldn't solo the ball.
These changes would allow players develop physically, cut down on injuries & lead to lower levels of dropout.

However the whole focus of the GAA hierarchy & it's other half the GPA, is Inter County as it is the Dinero train & that is what the Association has become, everyone pulling from it & what they can gain from it, be it highly paid officials of the GAA, GPA or Main Stream Media, all vested interests.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 22/01/2022 12:38:48    2395938

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Here's an idea, inspired by what they're doing to the UEFA Champions League in a couple of years or rugby's European Rugby Championship this season. Fire all 32 teams (+London, -Kilkenny) into one huge group and let each team play a certain number of games. The opponents could be chosen at random, or they could be based on ability, e.g. say two games against teams in each of Divisions 1, 2, 3 and 4. Or whatever. Then you could have, I dunno, top 16 into the Sam Maguire competition, pairings for the Round of 16 seeded by finishing position, and bottom 16 into the Tailteann Cup. Or positions 1-8 into last 16 and positions 9-24 to play off for the other sixteen places with the losers in the Tailteann Cup. You could incentivise the provincial championships and Tailteann Cup by giving the winners preferential seeding or guaranteed access to the current or subsequent championship's knockout stage. There's lots of things you could do. But the exciting thing would be 32 teams in one group, the possibility of playing anyone, and potential final day drama where you could have a dozen teams on the same points all fighting tooth and nail to stay alive in the championship, some of them even playing each other in winner-takes-all battles.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 789 - 22/01/2022 20:42:46    2395991

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Of course it should happen, but this is the GAA, can't be seen to reverse changes made by high ranking officials.

U17 grade has lead to very young players who are still developing physically, being put through mad training regimes similar to senior inter county level by glory hunting managers. The damage been done to young players physically with knee & hip injuries is serious & we have had some of the top consultants in the medical field come out saying that the extent of the wear & injuries is akin to adults who have had years of exposure at the top level.
The burnout factor is also massive along with the dropout rate & many of these players are never heard of again.
One such inter county manager at underage who implemented a regime where people couldn't have summer jobs or play other sports & deemed parents who had concerns as helicopter parents, boasted of the record number of training sessions & challenge games & was amazingly put on a committee overseeing player welfare, by an ex President of the Association, you couldn't make it up.
Many of these managers succeed at U17 as young lads are mad keen to go at it, but they don't succeed as they go up the ladder as players are more aware of their rights & looking after themselves on & off the field.

The competitions should revert back to U18 & U21 with strict rules on who can play, i.e. cant play both in same year, must be a minimum age, strict rules on number of training sessions & games & more education on player welfare, separate season to Sigerson & Fitzgibbon, strict punishments on counties & managers who don't adhere to the rules. The same could be said of Development squads at all age levels which have become elitist in the extreme. Development squads are a joke, the key to it all is in the word Development, it should be all about developing skills & physically & mentally. Yet, you see players who have been right through the system & can only use their strong foot or hand, I saw one lad who went through the system & he couldn't solo the ball.
These changes would allow players develop physically, cut down on injuries & lead to lower levels of dropout.

However the whole focus of the GAA hierarchy & it's other half the GPA, is Inter County as it is the Dinero train & that is what the Association has become, everyone pulling from it & what they can gain from it, be it highly paid officials of the GAA, GPA or Main Stream Media, all vested interests."
Agree with all of that moc, and it's a pity.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/01/2022 21:07:56    2395999

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So it's green for go, in regard to which proposal goes before Congress, its the better of the 2 IMO but its still not great but its a start.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/01/2022 21:10:05    2396000

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "So it's green for go, in regard to which proposal goes before Congress, its the better of the 2 IMO but its still not great but its a start."
Yeah whatever about my criticisms I think we should and with go with it and it's a step towards a really strong championship.

I actually think a really strong change would also be to have the league and provincials played in parallel.

February, March, April, May for those competitions before finishing with a tight 2 tier championship.

Even as is though schedule wise it's fine.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 23/01/2022 12:47:00    2396040

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Makes the leagues this season increasingly important too.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 23/01/2022 12:48:43    2396041

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah whatever about my criticisms I think we should and with go with it and it's a step towards a really strong championship.

I actually think a really strong change would also be to have the league and provincials played in parallel.

February, March, April, May for those competitions before finishing with a tight 2 tier championship.

Even as is though schedule wise it's fine."
Ya that would be interesting although I don't know would the Provincials councils go for it, couldn't see them wanting to share.

It will give the league and championship more bite for sure though.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/01/2022 13:36:49    2396049

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Ya that would be interesting although I don't know would the Provincials councils go for it, couldn't see them wanting to share.

It will give the league and championship more bite for sure though."
Would be better for both competitions if they ran parallel in my opinion.
Anyways let's hope the Congress votes the new system in and tweaks can be made as they see how it's working out

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 423 - 23/01/2022 19:01:26    2396108

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Would be better for both competitions if they ran parallel in my opinion.
Anyways let's hope the Congress votes the new system in and tweaks can be made as they see how it's working out"
I hear you, it would be the business in fairness.

I'd say the green proposal will romp home in the high 90s I'd reckon.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 23/01/2022 20:34:00    2396125

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Green proposal will get in for sure.

Such a shame that the key focus of the competition format is to facilitate the organisational structure!

With the new format we will have a magical mystery tour that will result in a bumped up version of the Super 8, the super 16. Not much learnings from the past on that!
We will also have a new competition that will consist of the lower ranked teams in the County and one's who have performed poorly enough that they didnt qualify to compete for Sam. Once again, sounds familiar to a previous failed attempt.

On the other hand, we have more games which is great.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1299 - 24/01/2022 13:09:01    2396197

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Replying To Ban:  "Green proposal will get in for sure.

Such a shame that the key focus of the competition format is to facilitate the organisational structure!

With the new format we will have a magical mystery tour that will result in a bumped up version of the Super 8, the super 16. Not much learnings from the past on that!
We will also have a new competition that will consist of the lower ranked teams in the County and one's who have performed poorly enough that they didnt qualify to compete for Sam. Once again, sounds familiar to a previous failed attempt.

On the other hand, we have more games which is great."
I think it's a big improvement and isn't actually like the Super 8s.


Every team plays a group stage championship for a start and have a shot of relative success.

This second tier championship is meaningful for a side like Antrim. It also adds further meaning to the leagues for us.

As I've said already I would like league and provincials to be played in parallel, over the first 15 weeks or so you have 11 potential rounds with 4 rest weekends then still have 10/11 weeks to run off 7 potential championship rounds.

I think it's a bit more fair, although I'd rather provincial runners up not get an automatic spot in tier 1.

Otherwise I think there's more games, more meaning to the league and teams playing more at their own level which ticks a lot of the boxes that needed to be ticked.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 25/01/2022 11:04:06    2396332

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Replying To brianb:  "I agree with that. Its basically adding a second seeding round after the provincial championships and playing a lot of games to most likely eliminate the provincial runners up. Games for the sake of games really. While it could be better I don't see any glaring flaw.

We might see 2 big names play each other in the group stage - it won't be a true knock out game and might be a dead rubber; but in my opinion that's alright. The biggest games are yet to come in the knock out stage with the best teams seeded to get there."
If the Match Schedule Sequence was - 2v4, 2v1, then 2v3 - this might keep the groups competitive to the end (although, there is no magic bullet).

Group Size - Groups of 5 or 3 would be better than 4 (3 of 5 works well in hurling).

3 of 4 Advancing - Maybe if 3rd needed to tie 2nd on pts, both could go to QF Playoff Rd as proposed - otherwise, 2nd goes to QFs and 3rd is out (this strikes a balance between keeping all teams in the hunt, but targetting 3rd is risky).

Prov Losing Finalists - Winners in Prov SFs between Tipp/Lime or Sligo/Leit should not get a Sam 16 berth - to address, maybe seed the draws with seeds 1&4 placed in opposite half of draw from seeds 2&3.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2170 - 25/01/2022 20:44:17    2396478

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I quite like the Green Proposal for the All Ireland Championship, seems more sensible than previous suggestions.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 872 - 26/01/2022 12:31:43    2396531

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Replying To Commodore:  "I quite like the Green Proposal for the All Ireland Championship, seems more sensible than previous suggestions."
How do you think the big teams in Ulster will approach the Ulster Championship in the Green proposal?

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1299 - 26/01/2022 14:32:36    2396559

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link

Green proposal discussion with Wooly and Tom Parkinson.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6806 - 26/01/2022 15:03:50    2396572

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

Green proposal discussion with Wooly and Tom Parkinson."
Thanks for sharing!

Personally I find it all extremely underwhelming and disappointing.

Tom Parsons is a shocker! Champions league structure is so bad that the top teams in Europe tried a break away last year. Saying the Provincial Championship will be interesting cause top teams may not take them so serious and therefor weaker teams will have a chance of winning! Oh the honor..

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1299 - 26/01/2022 17:35:48    2396604

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

Green proposal discussion with Wooly and Tom Parkinson."
I think Wooly's being a bit harsh and dismissive here.

It's a bit drawn out but it's definitely fairer.

The league's are more important.

Teams want more games and there needs to be something decent to play for. Which I think these provide.

There are tweaks that could be made but it's an improvement.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 26/01/2022 18:24:28    2396613

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