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Upcoming Special Congress

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "No, you don't."
Your really don't help yourself, Wexford have 10 provincials and 5 all irelands compared to Donegals 2 all irelands and 10 provincial, Wexford actually the only county outside of Kerry and Dublin to win a football 4 in a row.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 26/10/2021 20:09:10    2387515

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Read my previous comments on here. I'm all for change but B was still rubbish and it deserved to fail. The GPA should do the right thing and fold like the CPA."
Your really are a clueless individual, on your logic a political party should disband whenever they lose an election, the only thing that needs to fold is your hoganstand account.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 26/10/2021 20:11:22    2387517

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Read my previous comments on here. I'm all for change but B was still rubbish and it deserved to fail. The GPA should do the right thing and fold like the CPA."
No danger of the GPA folding.
1/ They have official recognition from the GAA.
2/ They get 15% of all net commercial GAA Revenues.
3/ New arrangements that bind the GAA to player welfare schemes for Inter County players.
4/ Full time staff that reportedly on average earn approx €65,000 per annum, senior management remuneration is said to be greater. It is reportedly said to be the level of top CEO's of major Irish companies (They won't publish salary breakdown)
5/ In 2019 post COVID period they turned over €7.5 Million.
6/ They obviously have influence at the highest level of the Association with the ex Uachtaran, Uachtaran & Ard Stiurothoir backing them at Congress against the Provincial Councils & County Boards who opposed Proposals A & B. It is the first time I have ever seen such vehement support for such a body from the top table in the Association.
7/ More Inter County games means more TV Rights money meaning more Revenue for GAA & GPA, finance has a big role to play in all of this.
7/ Lets not forget the former CEO Paul Flynn calling for a percentage of all games for players. Eventually we will see players strikes & then the advent of semi pro or pro set up.

The GAA is now a two tier Association, not one mention of club players in all this debacle. In fact the only ones who defended the club players were the Provincial Boards & County Boards who spoke against the motions, not a peep from the GAA leadership. No doubt they will get some of the usual empty rhetoric on the importance of grassroots over the next while. Yes, clubs will have a return to split season which is useless if lads only get 1 club game over the best 12 weeks of the Summer & if they change again in 2023 as they plan, more Inter County games will mean less club time & later starts to the season. Huge dropout rates at club level from 18 onwards.

Tom Parsons claiming that the vast majority of Inter County players want this, yet it is reported that only 300 of their 1200 members responded. If Proposal A & B were the best shot it begs serious questions of the GPA & working group who obviously didn't proof their proposals prior to presentation.
Ironic also that many senior GAA officials who sat at Congress in 2018 & watched the CPA Proposal on Transparency be overwhelmingly rejected & ridiculed from the floor should see the tables turned this week with some obviously not voting as promised but they will never know as there is no transparency. Says it all, some democracy.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1117 - 26/10/2021 20:13:08    2387518

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Maybe a weak mentality in Ulster but not weak teams. Something must be working, I don't mind something different but not a the expense of stronger teams. Letting top Div 3 and 4 teams in when lower Div1 and 2 teams don't qualify is silly. Would ye try lower Div 1 and 2 against top Div 3and 4?"
I have never seen anybody claim any different on Ulster being the strongest province so that's not really a discussion point. If all you and other posters are going to do is pick flauts in a structure with stuck with this awful status quo forever because finding a structure to keep everyone happy is an impossible task.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 26/10/2021 20:15:08    2387519

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Replying To wexico15:  "Your really don't help yourself, Wexford have 10 provincials and 5 all irelands compared to Donegals 2 all irelands and 10 provincial, Wexford actually the only county outside of Kerry and Dublin to win a football 4 in a row."
Was the system broke when Wexford were winning their 5 All Irelands ? Was it broke when they played Tyrone in a semi final? Lots of teams got their act together and others went backwards. My main gripe is the lower teams from Div 1 and 2 not qualifying and 3 and 4 getting in. All Div 1 and 2 should qualify and let 3 and 4 go through preliminary rounds to earn their place. I'm no fan of soccer but lower teams play each other and then finally come into FA cup at latter stages.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 27/10/2021 09:51:14    2387539

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Every change that's been made to date has resulted in where we are now - a handful and I am being generous when i say a handful competing for honours. They couldn't even get eight teams to make the super 8 league viable. Sponsorship, professional backroom teams, funding and a changing demographics have all gone unchecked. There needs to be some serious thinking done before they have Kerry playing Tyrone or Dublin or Mayo on loop or maybe this is what the delegates want."
Its certainly been a case of the better teams pulling away over the past 10 years.

In our counties (Kildare, Wicklow, Meath and Louth) the demographic change from rural to urban completely passed the GAA by. In 2003 when they looked to remedy the urbanisation problems seen in GAA participation they invested solely in Dublin and killed off competition in Leinster as a result. Its only in the last couple of years that the GAA has realised that our counties have become more urban and need similar supports. We'll see in the next 5 years if this has been a success. I don't know if anything is being done in Cork City or Belfast and other urban areas to invest in the game - but the good work done in Dublin to rescue the game there is needed in a lot more areas now as a result.

As for Sponsorship and Professional backroom teams - that is an interesting one. AIG pay Dublin around €1million each year. This in turn allows Dublin to have a professional backroom team with the likes of physios, sports scientists, video analysis, statistical analysis and nutritionists available to the team. I think something has to be done about evening out the backroom teams across the country. This would be harder to address - harder even that the championship structure. Perhaps all sponsorship revenue should go 50% to the county and 50% pooled to even out the effect somewhat?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 119 - 27/10/2021 10:04:00    2387542

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Replying To wexico15:  "Your really don't help yourself, Wexford have 10 provincials and 5 all irelands compared to Donegals 2 all irelands and 10 provincial, Wexford actually the only county outside of Kerry and Dublin to win a football 4 in a row."
Last one was in 1918 so please stop.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 27/10/2021 10:20:08    2387544

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Replying To wexico15:  "Your really are a clueless individual, on your logic a political party should disband whenever they lose an election, the only thing that needs to fold is your hoganstand account."
GPA don't represent the interests of most players in the GAA.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 27/10/2021 10:20:46    2387545

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Replying To ponger:  "Listening to these debates over the past few years i'm now more convinced than ever we are not even sure what problem we are trying to solve. The allireland competition in its current format has existed for over a 100 years. In those years many a heavy beating has been handed out and this will continue to happen no matter what structure you implement. But more importantly is that so called weaker teams have had days in the sun with Cavan, Tipperary, louth & Wexford to name a few.

We changed our structure a few years ago and introduced the famous super 8's and this had its own issues with dead rubbers and mismatches. What made it worse is that the bigger team could even afford a few bad days at the office and still win an Ireland.

To me, the issue is not with the structure of the competition, its with the structure of the individual counties. By this i mean the capability of any county to produce a panel of 30 that are competitive and capable to take part in competitions. Addressing the competition structure is not addressing the root causes within these counties.

So, lets address structure within the counties, funding, games development etc because thats where the real beatings and hammering are taking place.

If you have a pain in your wrist , you don't keep trying different painkillers until the pain goes away. You have to look deeper for the real problem."
I agree with you 100%. The GAA believe changing the structure of the championship will aid the weaker counties when as you rightly point out these counties are weakened before they even get to play in the championship due internal structures within the county be it poor administration, poor structures, lack of funds i.e. trying to compete on a shoestring budget and just barely surviving. The gap in standards is not just between the various divisions in the league, there are gaps between Division 1 and 2 which was borne out this year when Kerry hammered Clare in the championship after Clare being pipped by Mayo for promotion to Division 1. The real problems run far deeper than the championship structure.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1445 - 27/10/2021 10:30:56    2387546

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Replying To moc.dna:  "No danger of the GPA folding.
1/ They have official recognition from the GAA.
2/ They get 15% of all net commercial GAA Revenues.
3/ New arrangements that bind the GAA to player welfare schemes for Inter County players.
4/ Full time staff that reportedly on average earn approx €65,000 per annum, senior management remuneration is said to be greater. It is reportedly said to be the level of top CEO's of major Irish companies (They won't publish salary breakdown)
5/ In 2019 post COVID period they turned over €7.5 Million.
6/ They obviously have influence at the highest level of the Association with the ex Uachtaran, Uachtaran & Ard Stiurothoir backing them at Congress against the Provincial Councils & County Boards who opposed Proposals A & B. It is the first time I have ever seen such vehement support for such a body from the top table in the Association.
7/ More Inter County games means more TV Rights money meaning more Revenue for GAA & GPA, finance has a big role to play in all of this.
7/ Lets not forget the former CEO Paul Flynn calling for a percentage of all games for players. Eventually we will see players strikes & then the advent of semi pro or pro set up.

The GAA is now a two tier Association, not one mention of club players in all this debacle. In fact the only ones who defended the club players were the Provincial Boards & County Boards who spoke against the motions, not a peep from the GAA leadership. No doubt they will get some of the usual empty rhetoric on the importance of grassroots over the next while. Yes, clubs will have a return to split season which is useless if lads only get 1 club game over the best 12 weeks of the Summer & if they change again in 2023 as they plan, more Inter County games will mean less club time & later starts to the season. Huge dropout rates at club level from 18 onwards.

Tom Parsons claiming that the vast majority of Inter County players want this, yet it is reported that only 300 of their 1200 members responded. If Proposal A & B were the best shot it begs serious questions of the GPA & working group who obviously didn't proof their proposals prior to presentation.
Ironic also that many senior GAA officials who sat at Congress in 2018 & watched the CPA Proposal on Transparency be overwhelmingly rejected & ridiculed from the floor should see the tables turned this week with some obviously not voting as promised but they will never know as there is no transparency. Says it all, some democracy."
GPA said they looked through 20 proposals and B was the best they could come up with. Rubbish. They want a tiered system but still want to wrap Div 3 and 4 counties in cotton wool and give them a pathway to win Sam over counties competing at a higher level. We already know what a tiered system looks like because they have it in the other codes. Don't reinvent the wheel and go for a bizaree league system.

GPA also refuse to deal with the gulf which has opened up between the top few and the rest. Offaly can beat Dublin at underage no problem but have no chance when they get to senior. Sligo have the same population as Roscommon and can't compete.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 27/10/2021 10:31:19    2387548

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The first line only applies to you. Wexford folks should be barred from making a comment on football."
That's not a great comment. Only posters from strong counties allowed comment.

Does that mean Dublin posters know way more than everyone else just because they've had the strongest team for ten years ?

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1358 - 27/10/2021 10:32:00    2387549

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Replying To wexico15:  "I have never seen anybody claim any different on Ulster being the strongest province so that's not really a discussion point. If all you and other posters are going to do is pick flauts in a structure with stuck with this awful status quo forever because finding a structure to keep everyone happy is an impossible task."
The real problem wexico is that Option B was a very poor option. It had the benefit of almost unquestioning support in many areas of the media most especially Newstalk. It was also the beneficiary of questionable claims by The GPA in relation to player support yet it still didn't get anywhere near the 60% required. People had genuine and entirely legitimate concerns. It didn't deserve to pass. It is now time to go back to the drawing board. The players based on the votes of those players who actually voted want more games. That needs to be addressed. The primary concern amongst those who rejected Option B is the separation of the provincial championships from the All Ireland and the subsequent downgrading of the provincial championships. That too needs to be addressed. The task ahead is difficult but not impossible.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 27/10/2021 10:47:09    2387551

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Was the system broke when Wexford were winning their 5 All Irelands ? Was it broke when they played Tyrone in a semi final? Lots of teams got their act together and others went backwards. My main gripe is the lower teams from Div 1 and 2 not qualifying and 3 and 4 getting in. All Div 1 and 2 should qualify and let 3 and 4 go through preliminary rounds to earn their place. I'm no fan of soccer but lower teams play each other and then finally come into FA cup at latter stages."
That 4 in a row was 100 years ago, literally nothing to do with this debate. The qualifiers actually worked quite well for the 1st 10 years or so of their existence but they've been running out of steam for the last 7 or 8 years, it all comes back to the provincials. Leinster was very competitive 2001-5 and even in the 5 or 6 years after that Dublin actually got competitive games in the province, Munster was Cork or Kerry unfortunately Cork have fallen back in recent years. Connacht and Ulster were competitive. Interesting listening to Kieran Shannon last week he believes the change of the league from 1A,1B,2A,2B to Div 1,2,3,4 improved the league but made the championship worse almost creating a cartel of the top 4-6 teams.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 27/10/2021 10:49:09    2387552

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Last one was in 1918 so please stop."
That's still called a footballing pedigree.

Anyway no point you posting anything else, you've exposed yourself as a childish individual and an irrelevance.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 27/10/2021 10:53:46    2387553

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Was the system broke when Wexford were winning their 5 All Irelands ? Was it broke when they played Tyrone in a semi final? Lots of teams got their act together and others went backwards. My main gripe is the lower teams from Div 1 and 2 not qualifying and 3 and 4 getting in. All Div 1 and 2 should qualify and let 3 and 4 go through preliminary rounds to earn their place. I'm no fan of soccer but lower teams play each other and then finally come into FA cup at latter stages."
Also if all your looking for is gripes you'll never find a system to keep you happy as I think a perfect system in impossible to find. I taught there was flaws to option B but the pros outweighed the cons.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 27/10/2021 10:57:07    2387554

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Replying To carlovia:  "That's not a great comment. Only posters from strong counties allowed comment.

Does that mean Dublin posters know way more than everyone else just because they've had the strongest team for ten years ?"
If a Donegal poster commeted on a hurling thread and I said that I'd be embarrassed.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 27/10/2021 10:57:56    2387555

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Replying To wexico15:  "That's still called a footballing pedigree.

Anyway no point you posting anything else, you've exposed yourself as a childish individual and an irrelevance."
It's not. And yet you keep replying despite my supposed irrelevance. Take your own advise. Could make a cup of tea with the amount of tears coming out of you now.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 27/10/2021 11:06:34    2387558

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Simple solution: Amalgamate the NFL and the Championship properly.

Senior All-Ireland Championship - 16 team round robin division. Each team plays each other once. 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 and 4v5 in make up the AIQF's, with teams 1&2 given a home QF for finishing in the top spots. Bottom team (team 16) relegated. Team 14v 15 in relegation playoff. All knockout games are finish on the day (max 18 games).

Intermediate All-Ireland Championship - 16 team round robin division. Each team plays each other once. 1v8, 2v7, 3v6 and 4v5 in make up the AIQF's, with teams 1&2 given a home QF for finishing in the top spots. Teams that make the Intermediate AI final are promoted to Senior for the next year.

Intermediate champions/relegation playoff loser and Intermediate finalists/automatically relegated team would take each others places in the following seasons home/away arrangements.

National Cup - Straight knockout, finish on the day (penalties if required) cup competition based on traditional provincial structure involving all teams from the two Divisions. Provincial draws are open draw. Max 6 games depending on the draw/province.

24 match weeks Total. Throw in 3 weekends off throughout the year for rest/weather cancellations and the week before the AI final, you get 28 weeks in total for the entire year. Aim for the final week in July for the AI final, you'd have the first game mid January.

Simple, obvious, fair.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 92 - 27/10/2021 11:17:49    2387560

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Replying To wexico15:  "That 4 in a row was 100 years ago, literally nothing to do with this debate. The qualifiers actually worked quite well for the 1st 10 years or so of their existence but they've been running out of steam for the last 7 or 8 years, it all comes back to the provincials. Leinster was very competitive 2001-5 and even in the 5 or 6 years after that Dublin actually got competitive games in the province, Munster was Cork or Kerry unfortunately Cork have fallen back in recent years. Connacht and Ulster were competitive. Interesting listening to Kieran Shannon last week he believes the change of the league from 1A,1B,2A,2B to Div 1,2,3,4 improved the league but made the championship worse almost creating a cartel of the top 4-6 teams."
Kieran Shannon is bang on the money. The Leinster championship was a great championship. There were capacity attendances for the final. Unfortunately the leadership of the GAA stepped in and destroyed all that.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 27/10/2021 11:19:15    2387561

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Replying To Greengrass:  "The real problem wexico is that Option B was a very poor option. It had the benefit of almost unquestioning support in many areas of the media most especially Newstalk. It was also the beneficiary of questionable claims by The GPA in relation to player support yet it still didn't get anywhere near the 60% required. People had genuine and entirely legitimate concerns. It didn't deserve to pass. It is now time to go back to the drawing board. The players based on the votes of those players who actually voted want more games. That needs to be addressed. The primary concern amongst those who rejected Option B is the separation of the provincial championships from the All Ireland and the subsequent downgrading of the provincial championships. That too needs to be addressed. The task ahead is difficult but not impossible."
In fairness to Newstalk they did have the Leinster and Ulster council secretaries on their platforms who couldn't be anymore opposed to proposal B and Rory Gallagher also spoke against it in a wide ranging interview. I don't think it was as far away as you think, they needed 8 more people to vote yes instead of no and there's a suspicion Kerry and Dublin voted No. If those 2 switched that was the 60% there. I'm not saying this due to this vote but the whole transparency thing on the votes badly needs to change, Oisin Mcconville and the Fermanagh manager both of the belief people were mandated to vote a certain way and didn't and that's totally wrong regardless what someone's view is on the motion, creates a lack of trust.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3931 - 27/10/2021 11:39:00    2387563

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