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Kildare Vs Dublin

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "You see lots of teams now trying to run down the clock. It is admittedly more evident now, and Dublin excel at it. Tyrone did very good job in same vein at end of Ulster final and it was impressive to watch.

I really do not see what the alternative is. No sport should award negativity which is fundamentally the mindest displayed by ultra defensive teams.

Anyone who enjoys NFL will know that one of the greatest ever teams - and most hated!! - was Brady era Patriots. They were masters of getting a lead and running down the clock and ruthlessly nipping offence by the other team. As Dublin did several times in last quarter yesterday.

I might also remind you, that there is a school of thought that your own county were caught by Dublin when trying to play keep ball in 2011. As they were perfectly entitled to. And if Kerry have a 3/4 point lead against Tyrone or if they get to the final against Dublin or Mayo, you may be full certain they won't be launching heroic attacks in the last ten minutes!"
I agree with you Barney and Kerry also played down the clock in the latter stages of the 07 semi. I'm not criticising Dublin at all. I just think it's a hard watch but it's probably the sensible thing to do.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2789 - 02/08/2021 12:39:51    2366820

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "Very boring second half, lent itself to multitasking.
Mayo can end this nightmare football and restore the game."
Restore the game my tail end. Did you not see Monaghan v Down or Offaly v Cork in the U20 this weekend? Did you not see the Ulster Final this weekend. The game is very much alive and well.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 02/08/2021 12:40:31    2366821

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Don't get this, surely the way to go is stop teams keeping 14 players in their own half, leave the attacking team alone."
Well yes and no. Yes it would be great to stop a team putting more than 10 players in their own half but hard to monitor but it would be a little bit harder to keep ball if you couldn't play it back behind halfway once you cross it. Also the short kickout is dour and. I'm not saying I've the answers. I'm just making suggestions but surely you agree that alot of the games are becoming boring.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2789 - 02/08/2021 12:56:24    2366830

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Replying To Joxer:  "Well obviously not seeing as though one of Limerick, Tipp and Waterford have been in the AI final in the last 5 years. When was the last time Roscommon, or any other team in Connaught outside of Galway and Mayo, were in a AI final? Who would back against Galway or Mayo winning Connaught next year? It's as competitive as the Scottish PL in soccer."
We can all massage the figures. Howz this for one. Name the last province to have two counties that have won the Sam Maguire. Answer Munster. Cork and Kerry. One leinster since 1996.One Connaught since 2001 and one Ulster since 2008.It does nt tell the full story does it.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2789 - 02/08/2021 13:06:18    2366836

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Replying To trim1:  "I reckon the confidence has been sucked out of the other Leinster counties. I didn't get a sense from the Kildare that they would be able to build on Flynn's goal and use as a kick start to go on and win the game.
Just imagine the Meath team of the eighties and nineties - they would have sensed the vulnerability in the Dubs and gone for the jugular.
Two reasons I reckon for this. First a lack of confidence after Dublin's success and dominance in recent years and secondly they were a bit out on their feet due to the efforts to keep their defensive play going and Dubs with better strength and conditioning"
The Meath team back then was indeed powerful. But this is a far different era, an era where players are far fitter and far more intelligent and well versed in the art of not giving the ball away.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 780 - 02/08/2021 13:06:50    2366838

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Replying To NorthKildare:  "Congrats to Dublin, I think we set up too defensively today to have a real chance of winning the game, it is a learning curve for us and playing Div 1 next year should bring us on, Hope the dubs go on and win the all Ireland now, they are the best team to watch!"
In 2020 we set up quiet attacking wise and took a 21 point loss as things went very wrong for us. This year we set up in a similar way but were relatively competitive until practically the end of the match.
The only way to have a chance of being any way competitive against Dublin is to go for it but in doing that you are risking a really bad beating if things go wrong.
O'Connor probably see's Kildare are in a good position heading into next season with Kildare being in division 1. He got Kildare to play the way they did yesterday as he probably felt it wasn't worth risking a mauling which could leave baggage going into next season.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1006 - 02/08/2021 13:31:46    2366856

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Replying To Joxer:  "Well obviously not seeing as though one of Limerick, Tipp and Waterford have been in the AI final in the last 5 years. When was the last time Roscommon, or any other team in Connaught outside of Galway and Mayo, were in a AI final? Who would back against Galway or Mayo winning Connaught next year? It's as competitive as the Scottish PL in soccer."
I cant understand why you are using the most competitive province in your argument.

5 teams competed in Connacht, of the 5 teams 60% have won 2 titles each in the last 6 years.

Regarding your Ludacris Scottish Premiership Comparison :
Scottish Premiership has 12 teams and Celtic have won 9 of the last 10
Leinster Championship has 12 teams and Dublin have won 11 in a row.

brisbane (Galway) - Posts: 595 - 02/08/2021 13:36:33    2366858

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Replying To Greengrass:  "That's a different issue Joxer. The fact is that three different teams have won Connacht in the last six seasons. The exact same is true in the Munster hurling championship. Connacht is more than a two horse race. I agree that the structure of the championship needs to be examined but I also believe the provincial championships need to be central to that restructuring. The provincial structure was maintained as the core of a newly restructured hurling championship. A Champuons League type structure would be a disaster. It's a soulless format. It has also been manipulated to completely obliterate the chances of the vast, vast bulk of the competing leagues. We need to be very careful how we proceed."
I get that it's an emotive topic. We all look back fondly when Leinster produced great Meath, Offaly and Kildare football teams, Laois and Westmeath were always tough too. We had great Leinster championships. Cork had some mighty teams in the past too that actually gave Kerry some competition in Munster. Roscommon come knocking now and then, Sligo is a soccer county and Leitrim doesn't have the resources so Connaught is effectively a 2 horse raise. Who would bet against the trio of Dublin, Kerry and Mayo winning their respective provinces next year? Like I say, I get the history etc but apart from Ulster I don't see the purpose of them anymore. There has to be a better format.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4443 - 02/08/2021 13:50:08    2366867

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "We can all massage the figures. Howz this for one. Name the last province to have two counties that have won the Sam Maguire. Answer Munster. Cork and Kerry. One leinster since 1996.One Connaught since 2001 and one Ulster since 2008.It does nt tell the full story does it."
There's lies, damned lies and statistics Mick.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1822 - 02/08/2021 13:52:35    2366871

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "There's lies, damned lies and statistics Mick."
So true Tirchonaill so true

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2789 - 02/08/2021 14:03:03    2366875

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "In 2020 we set up quiet attacking wise and took a 21 point loss as things went very wrong for us. This year we set up in a similar way but were relatively competitive until practically the end of the match.
The only way to have a chance of being any way competitive against Dublin is to go for it but in doing that you are risking a really bad beating if things go wrong.
O'Connor probably see's Kildare are in a good position heading into next season with Kildare being in division 1. He got Kildare to play the way they did yesterday as he probably felt it wasn't worth risking a mauling which could leave baggage going into next season."
That's a fair point. It means they leave the stage this year with morale high following what has to be looked upon as being a successful season.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 02/08/2021 14:05:44    2366876

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Replying To Joxer:  "I get that it's an emotive topic. We all look back fondly when Leinster produced great Meath, Offaly and Kildare football teams, Laois and Westmeath were always tough too. We had great Leinster championships. Cork had some mighty teams in the past too that actually gave Kerry some competition in Munster. Roscommon come knocking now and then, Sligo is a soccer county and Leitrim doesn't have the resources so Connaught is effectively a 2 horse raise. Who would bet against the trio of Dublin, Kerry and Mayo winning their respective provinces next year? Like I say, I get the history etc but apart from Ulster I don't see the purpose of them anymore. There has to be a better format."
I agree that we have to try to develop the structures Joxer but I think the provincial championships have to be part of it. What Jim McGuinness said rings true. "Once they're gone, they're gone." We just need to be careful how we proceed. This special Congress in November worries me because Congress is nothing more than a nodding shop now where the delegates just nod their heads and say yes to whatever the top table wants.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 02/08/2021 14:09:58    2366878

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "The Meath team back then was indeed powerful. But this is a far different era, an era where players are far fitter and far more intelligent and well versed in the art of not giving the ball away."
Maybe things are starting to change in Leinster. Meath are after hammering Dublin for the second year in row at underage by 11 points. Meath hammered Dubs by 10 pts at underage a few years ago also. Meath are just after winning their 4th Under 17 Leinster minor title in 5 years today, after beating Dublin in the Leinster minor final. That's the 6th time in the last 5 years Meath have beaten Dublin at underage in the Leinster championship. I have never heard a county doing that to Dublin at underage before. Look at Offaly beating Dublin in Leinster Under 20 final this year. Offaly have a very exciting young team. Offaly are in their first All Ireland final at that grade level in 30 years. Kildare won All Ireland Under 20 All Ireland final 3 years and also beat Dubs in leinster final. That was Kildares first All Ireland in 50 years at any grade. These are all good signs for future of Leinster football.

There is definitely something positive going on in Leinster football. And it is having impact on the Meath senior team. These successful Meath minors are jumping straight into Meath seniors, bypassing the Under 20s and having an huge effect on Meath seniors. Matthew Costello and Cathal Hickey didn't play for Meath U20s, they went straight onto senior panel. Matthew Costello at 18 scored 1 - 1 v kildare in Leinster senior semi final last year and young Costello changed the course of the match and was Man of the Match. This year at 19 in Leinster senior semi final v Dubs again, Costello was the player who changed the course of the game with 1 - 2. When was last time in Leinster a Leinster player at 19 scored 1- 2 v Dubs in the championship. Cathal Hickey last year at 18 was man of the match v Dublin in the league for Meath, in his senior debut for Meath. And at 19 this year Hickey was one of Meaths best players at senior. Two years ago, Shane Walsh at 18 in his first game ever start for Meath, he scored 6 points in the championship v kerry, 3 from play. And last year at 19, Walsh scored 4 brillant points from play for Meath v Dublin in league. Jordan Morris only 21 has been Meaths top scorer two years in row. Harry Hogan Meaths goalie this year at 20 is another real prospect. And other players like James Conlon, Ethan Devine, Jason Scully, Jack O Connor, Jack Flynn, Eoin Harkin all on the Meath senior panel are from Meath teams that beat Dublin at underage recently. Many of them have beaten Dublin twice at underage.

Ten years ago the Mcccaffreys, the Callaghans were best young players coming through at underage in Leinster. Now it Meaths Matthew Costello, Cathal Hickey, Shane Walsh, Offalys Ger Egan and Kildares Jimmy Hyland. There is definitely a change at underage in Leinster. And it is having an effect at senior, especially Meath. Meath played Dublin 3 times in the last 9 months at senior. One of the games was an hammering, but the other two Meath put it up to Dublin. Both games were identical, carbon copy's of each other. Where Meath rattled Dublin and pushed them all the way to 70th min and the Dubs only pulled away in injury time in both games with 3 unanswered points to win by 4 pts last years and 6 pts this year. Those two performances, Meath 4 pts loss to Dubs last November and Meath 6 pt loss to Dublin recently, are the closest and best performance any Leinster team has had v Dublin in the last 9 years in league and championship. Its the young Meath players aged 18, 19 and 20 like Matthew Costello, Shane Walsh, Jordan Morris, Cathal Hickey, James Conlon and Harry Hogan who are all taking fight to Dublin. That all these players defeated Dublin at underage is definitely a help. And Meath still have players to come through from this years and last years Leinster minor winners and Jack Flynn, Luke Mitchell and James O' Hare look real prospects from Meaths U20 team which was unlucky not to beat Dublin this year.
While this years Meath Leinster minor looks the best of the underage Meath team yet to come through in the last 5 years and will play Roscommon or Sligo in thd semis. Wouldn't it be brillant if Offaly won Under 20 All Ireland and Meath minor All Ireland this year. That would also signify the change going on at underage in Leinster even more. But of course Meath have to beat Roscommon or Sligo, of course that will be difficult. Rossies particularly in recent years have good underage teams. And Cork and Ulster teams look good also. in the other side of draw, so it will be very difficult for Meath. No leinster team has won Minor All Ireland since Dublin did 9 years ago in 2012. I am just making the point wouldn't it be great if Meath and Offaly were to do win both underage All Irelands. That would be an even more massive boost for Leinster football overall.

Kingkeegan (UK) - Posts: 51 - 02/08/2021 14:13:25    2366882

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Replying To Joxer:  "I get that it's an emotive topic. We all look back fondly when Leinster produced great Meath, Offaly and Kildare football teams, Laois and Westmeath were always tough too. We had great Leinster championships. Cork had some mighty teams in the past too that actually gave Kerry some competition in Munster. Roscommon come knocking now and then, Sligo is a soccer county and Leitrim doesn't have the resources so Connaught is effectively a 2 horse raise. Who would bet against the trio of Dublin, Kerry and Mayo winning their respective provinces next year? Like I say, I get the history etc but apart from Ulster I don't see the purpose of them anymore. There has to be a better format."
Back than leinster football was really strong. Look at the ten years from 1994 to 2004.

1994 Meath won National league Div 1 title
1995 Dublin won leinster and All Ireland
1996 Meath won leinster and All Ireland
1997 Offaly won leinster
1998 Ofaly won National league Div 1 title
1998 kildare won leinster & reached All Ireland Final
1999 Meath won leinster & All Ireland
2000 kildare won leinster
2001 Meath won Leinster & reached All Ireland Final
2002 Dublin won leinster
2003 Laois won leinster
2004 Westmeath won Leinster

Always felt Sean Boylan never got enough credit for his achievements back then. The impact of Sean Boylan and Mick Dwyer on leinster football is huge. When Sean was successful It was the most competitive era in leinster football yet he won 8 Leinster titles in 15 years. He defeated Dublin in 7 leinster finals in 15 years which is remarkable. Laois and Westmeath have never beaten Dublin in leinster senior final. Kildare have only have beaten Dubs in one leinster final in 90 years. If Jack O Connor had won yesterday he would have been only 4th manager ever to beat Dubs in leinster final. Mick O Dwyer beat Dubs once in leinster final in 2000, Eugene McGee beat Dubs in two leinster finals in 1980 and 1982. Sean Boylan beat Dubs in 7 leinster finals in 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1996, 1999 qnd 2001. Boylan also won 4 All Irelands in 13 years and reached 7 All Ireland final in the most competitive era in the All Ireland championship ever.
Its noticeable and significant when Sean Boylan retires in 2005 from leinster football and Mick Dwyer left laois in 2006, after that Dublin won 16 out of next 17 leinster titles. Sean Boylan teams beat Dublin 8 times and had 4 draws v Dubs in 15 years in leinster championship and Mickos team beat Dubs 3 times and had 2 draws against Dubs in Leinster championship in 15 years. Once the two greatest managers of all time left the scene, the two managers who defeated Dubs more than any other managers in history, when they left Meath and laois, Dublin flourished. And when you see Boylan part of the current Down U20 management team that wins Downs their first U20 Ulster title in 12 years, the great man still works his magic. When Boylan left and Dwyer left, the Dubs could breathe easier. The Dubs two greatest adversaries had left the main stage.

Look at this, bsfore Boylan wins his first leinster title in 1986 Dublin had won won 10 of the previous 12 leinster titles. Boylans win in 1986 and Dwyer comes to kildare in 1992. Meath win in 1986 and the next 18 years Meath win 8 leinster titles , kildare win 2 leinster titles and Offaly, laois, Westmeath win 1 each. After Boylan Dwyer leave in 2005, 2006 Dubs win 16 of the next 17 leinsters. Before Boylan and Dwyer manage in leinster Dubs dominated leinster, when they leave Dubs dominate again. I don't think people give Sean Boylan or Mick Dwyer enough credit for their impact on leinster football.

Kingkeegan (UK) - Posts: 51 - 02/08/2021 15:28:28    2366902

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "We can all massage the figures. Howz this for one. Name the last province to have two counties that have won the Sam Maguire. Answer Munster. Cork and Kerry. One leinster since 1996.One Connaught since 2001 and one Ulster since 2008.It does nt tell the full story does it."
Meath won in 1999 so those figures are off.

Mac&Cheese (Mayo) - Posts: 9 - 02/08/2021 15:40:31    2366905

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There's change afoot alright, Meath hammering our minors too!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8285 - 02/08/2021 15:50:56    2366907

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Replying To Mac&Cheese:  "Meath won in 1999 so those figures are off."
Indeed the statistics are correct.I know Meath won in 1999.My statement was the last province to have two teams (from that Province) to win sam and the answer is Munster.Kerry in 14 and Cork in10.Before that it was Ulster with Donegal 14 and Tyrone in 08 and before that it was leinster with Dubin 8 times and Meath in 1999.Maybe you misunderstood my statement .My statement is correct .If I said name the last province to have 3 teams from it to win sam 3 times then answer is Ulster as Armagh won in 02 along with Tyrone 3 times and Donegal in 2014

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2789 - 02/08/2021 16:54:56    2366930

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Replying To oneoff:  "
Replying To jimbodub:  "[quote=avonali:  "[quote=jimbodub:  "On Dublin go..

The bonus territory continues

Severe first world problem syndrome for a few of my fellow Dubs ;)

#5 is in the bag and #6 is unheralded

We are playing against teams happy to be 10pts down and still sit deep with 14 behind the ball..

What do you want Du6lin to do exactly?

I hope they continue to highlight how useless the blanket is now, Previous swash buckling go nowhere Dublin sides couldn't beat it, in fact got humiliated and bullied. Very short memories..

Du6s are operating at a level never achieved in the game, they are in a completely unique position for a number of reasons.

The one that really stands out a mile is..

Unfortunately we have teams competing against Du6lin that don't want to give themselves any chance of winning whatsover.. that's the problem folks.

Imagine playing the game against teams with little to no real intention of trying to win the game..

Happy to be have limited offensive options and blanket defend a 10pt deficit.. it's baffling.

What would you do in such a position if you played on a side that almost continually faced such a scenario..

Its a credit to Du6lin that they are still so hungry."
Jimbo, there is some truth in what you say but,
Sport is a spectacle and as such it needs to have some element of excitement, some tension, some intensity to absorb us.
If football is a game of two halves then today's match was , like Sam Beckett's "Waiting for Godot", a play in which nothing happens twice.
Or at least some moments of excellence. Where were the creativity, the incisive moves and pacey running off the shoulder?? Where was the deft foot passing and high fielding?? Today was awful-35 euro for a ticket to watch that muck?
I love the Dubs and I believe their team has been very creative in dealing with the blanket, but this is different now. You'd want to be blind to not see that there is a serious issue emerging in Gaelic football and I don't mean the dominance of the Dubs. A lot of IC Gaelic matches are utterly boring events in which nothing really exciting happens!"
Nothing to do with Du6lin

Du6lin reacted to a situation that already existed

Apparently that was destroying the game at the time..

Dubs countered it, rendering it useless.

Teams still setup like that against Dublin..

Not sure what you want Dublin to do...

Continually over commit and run into swarm tackles like in the 00's?"]If what anyone to actually take what you say seriously the "Du6lin" isn't going to help. Especially considering you claim to be an adult with children...."]I gave your comment the #6 thumbs up :)

In honour of the Du6s

;)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20342 - 02/08/2021 17:05:43    2366933

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Great day out in Corker yesterday, big Kildare crowd - fair play.

Kildare well prepared had done their homework, had spent the last few weeks putting in place a blanket structure and to be fair executed it really well. Of course there was no real balance between defense and attack and it was just about keeping the score down really. Were never going to win. I think for Kildare they mentally had the boxes ticked, promotion, Leinsetr final - job done.

Dublin looked utterly boad by the whole affair - Another team showing up with 14 men behind the ball, hurrah, victims of their own success really. Teams show them far to much respect and play fear ball or as managers like to say "coming up with a plan against the Dubs" - elsewise your big standard blancket.

I was looking at yesterday, Dublin were trying something, they would only commit 10 to try and beat the blanket, its like they set themselves up that challenge or maybe they were afraid of the wonderful Daniel Fllynn - all star for that lad i think.

But yeah double marking Con, double sweepers, 14 men behind the ball, keep the score down. We look utterly bored of games like this, hopefully as the championship goes on and opens up a bit more - i can see why lads like Jack and Mannion have taken time out, these games are utterly boring one carbon copy of one to the next trying to break down human shields in front of a packed defense.

Anyhow 11 Leinsters on the trot and on we go. Dublin will be beaten this year, but i cant help but feel its less about other teams being good and more about Dublin just loosing the luster and honestly just getting bored - call it lack of hunger or whatever, but they have to face a groundhog day of dirge one game to the next - no other county has to face. Dublin are different to some other counties we dont like shooting fish in a barrel and winning all irelands - we need competitiveness and challenge - its our way.

Next up Mayo, be a battle, we might fall on the wrong side of it, but so be it, the Mayo team are worthy warriors.

As always up the Du6s."
Yes another pointless bog standard blanket conquered with ease display.. zzzz

Great to have a style of play that condemns such negativity before a ball is even kicked

Just flick it on when necessary... practically every game

Du6s just so versed at such now

They did look bored yesterday.. it is boring but what can you do. You Can't feed that tactic exactly what it wants, so flick the button and pick your scores.

They must be bored silly facing this stuff now..

Game after game..

Good post man, you're absolutely spot on.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20342 - 02/08/2021 17:15:45    2366938

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Yes another pointless bog standard blanket conquered with ease display.. zzzz

Great to have a style of play that condemns such negativity before a ball is even kicked

Just flick it on when necessary... practically every game

Du6s just so versed at such now

They did look bored yesterday.. it is boring but what can you do. You Can't feed that tactic exactly what it wants, so flick the button and pick your scores.

They must be bored silly facing this stuff now..

Game after game..

Good post man, you're absolutely spot on."
Ah here lads. Boo hoo.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 02/08/2021 19:27:30    2367002

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