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Kildare Vs Dublin

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Replying To brianb:  "I saw an Interesting point made by Martin Breheny in the Independent - he counted 308 back passes in Sunday's game. This was mainly as a result of the safety first, minimal risk approach employed by both teams.

While I commend Kildare's defensive organization to keep pushing the Dubs back and the Dubs' strength allied with accurate passing to retain the possession for long periods at a time - there were minimal contests for the ball. It was like looking at Basketball but without a shot clock."
Are you not disappointed though Kildare didn't have a go. They turned up to keep the score down, it was 14 men behind the ball Vs 9/10 offensive players.

I honestly believe Dublin are bored of games like this, i know its a big game for Kildare and Kildare are only interested in Kildare and not to get a hiding. But why would Dublin bother really getting out of second gear, getting injured, when they are far front, have an eye on Semi and the opportunity to conserve energy for a game in two weeks.

To turn your point on its head, i think the blancket and keep the score down approach shows a lack of ambition, fight competitiveness and ultimately breeds a losing mentality, will these group of players ever win anything when the subliminal message to them is you are not good enough to compete with the top teams and keep the score down. I watched the game back last night and listened to O Connor before the game, he basically said before the game they are happy to have got that far, promotion, Leinster final, they were defeated before the game and just didnt want to be humiliated. With that attitude Kildare will never compete.

I think its embarrassing for the opposition, when Dublin do the front press, it means you are playing fear ball, showing no ambition and just have 14 men behind the ball. Honestly Dublin dont deserve that respect any more and Dan Flynn was cutting the backline to ribbons, Kildares approach and defeatist attitude undermined competition in the game. You can talk about being frustrated by Dublin approach, but we are sick to the back teeth of watching teams come to Croke Park and beaten before they start and just play defeatist fear ball, its awful and to be honest demining for the county in question. Sad thing is Kildare will be delighted with a 6 point loss, "gap is closing" what not.

At least Meath had us rattled, they are great example, Kildare never took that initiative the way Meath did at least they went down with their boots on and rattled us, that breeds respect.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 10:25:45    2367471

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Are you not disappointed though Kildare didn't have a go. They turned up to keep the score down, it was 14 men behind the ball Vs 9/10 offensive players.

I honestly believe Dublin are bored of games like this, i know its a big game for Kildare and Kildare are only interested in Kildare and not to get a hiding. But why would Dublin bother really getting out of second gear, getting injured, when they are far front, have an eye on Semi and the opportunity to conserve energy for a game in two weeks.

To turn your point on its head, i think the blancket and keep the score down approach shows a lack of ambition, fight competitiveness and ultimately breeds a losing mentality, will these group of players ever win anything when the subliminal message to them is you are not good enough to compete with the top teams and keep the score down. I watched the game back last night and listened to O Connor before the game, he basically said before the game they are happy to have got that far, promotion, Leinster final, they were defeated before the game and just didnt want to be humiliated. With that attitude Kildare will never compete.

I think its embarrassing for the opposition, when Dublin do the front press, it means you are playing fear ball, showing no ambition and just have 14 men behind the ball. Honestly Dublin dont deserve that respect any more and Dan Flynn was cutting the backline to ribbons, Kildares approach and defeatist attitude undermined competition in the game. You can talk about being frustrated by Dublin approach, but we are sick to the back teeth of watching teams come to Croke Park and beaten before they start and just play defeatist fear ball, its awful and to be honest demining for the county in question. Sad thing is Kildare will be delighted with a 6 point loss, "gap is closing" what not.

At least Meath had us rattled, they are great example, Kildare never took that initiative the way Meath did at least they went down with their boots on and rattled us, that breeds respect."
I think it can be a bit more nuanced than that. Yes - I am disappointed that Kildare didn't have a proper go at times in the match - especially when a goal goes in 10 mins from time to bring it back to 5 points. But I don't think the right approach would have been to go man to man and get opened up by Dublin at will. The big killer for Kildare was the amount of ball dropped into Comerford's arms.

But Dublin were equally defensive at times when Kildare had the ball - employing a sweeper and generally double marking Dan Flynn. But that is what teams do - try to negate the opposition strengths while playing to your own which in Dublin's case is ball retention / recycling with accurate passes and strength. Kildare had ambition and were trying to get quick ball into Hyland and Flynn but were normally stopped and bottled up by Dublin in midfield.

I would not say that I was frustrated by Dublin's approach - but I think it's worth calling out that Dublin encouraged Kildare to get men behind the ball and were happy to play around this as it was playing to their strengths. Obviously most of the Kildare players will be behind the ball when Dublin play the ball back 70/80 meters instead of taking a low percentage shot.

Some of the more encouraging signs for Kildare this year were in defense. Had the tightest defense in the top 2 divisions of the league and didn't concede a goal in the championship - coming from how easily Meath could open up the defense last year that is a big step forward.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 12:02:23    2367505

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Are you not disappointed though Kildare didn't have a go. They turned up to keep the score down, it was 14 men behind the ball Vs 9/10 offensive players.

I honestly believe Dublin are bored of games like this, i know its a big game for Kildare and Kildare are only interested in Kildare and not to get a hiding. But why would Dublin bother really getting out of second gear, getting injured, when they are far front, have an eye on Semi and the opportunity to conserve energy for a game in two weeks.

To turn your point on its head, i think the blancket and keep the score down approach shows a lack of ambition, fight competitiveness and ultimately breeds a losing mentality, will these group of players ever win anything when the subliminal message to them is you are not good enough to compete with the top teams and keep the score down. I watched the game back last night and listened to O Connor before the game, he basically said before the game they are happy to have got that far, promotion, Leinster final, they were defeated before the game and just didnt want to be humiliated. With that attitude Kildare will never compete.

I think its embarrassing for the opposition, when Dublin do the front press, it means you are playing fear ball, showing no ambition and just have 14 men behind the ball. Honestly Dublin dont deserve that respect any more and Dan Flynn was cutting the backline to ribbons, Kildares approach and defeatist attitude undermined competition in the game. You can talk about being frustrated by Dublin approach, but we are sick to the back teeth of watching teams come to Croke Park and beaten before they start and just play defeatist fear ball, its awful and to be honest demining for the county in question. Sad thing is Kildare will be delighted with a 6 point loss, "gap is closing" what not.

At least Meath had us rattled, they are great example, Kildare never took that initiative the way Meath did at least they went down with their boots on and rattled us, that breeds respect."
Yes Kildare really needs Dublins "respect"
lol! I'll let you in on the big secret.. Kildare don't care what Dublin or their supporters think.. we finished the game with a bunch of under 23's, narrowest defeat in a Leinster final in many a year.. conceded zero goals, kept the beating against a semi pro side to a degree that won't effect these kids when they come up against them in the future.
Last year we conceded 5 goals against a team that went on to "have a go" " for some respect " to lose by ~23 pts to Dublin.
I think in 10 month's that's solid progress.
If its respect you crave, how about demanding your team play just 1 game v Kildare in the LFC in Newbridge once in 50 years? Or Meath in Navan? Or Laois in Portlaoise? Or Offaly in... Then the rest of Leinster might have some respect for Dublins watery achievements in Leinster. Engage the brain young chap before publishing your nonsense..

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 150 - 04/08/2021 12:06:58    2367509

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "Yes Kildare really needs Dublins "respect"
lol! I'll let you in on the big secret.. Kildare don't care what Dublin or their supporters think.. we finished the game with a bunch of under 23's, narrowest defeat in a Leinster final in many a year.. conceded zero goals, kept the beating against a semi pro side to a degree that won't effect these kids when they come up against them in the future.
Last year we conceded 5 goals against a team that went on to "have a go" " for some respect " to lose by ~23 pts to Dublin.
I think in 10 month's that's solid progress.
If its respect you crave, how about demanding your team play just 1 game v Kildare in the LFC in Newbridge once in 50 years? Or Meath in Navan? Or Laois in Portlaoise? Or Offaly in... Then the rest of Leinster might have some respect for Dublins watery achievements in Leinster. Engage the brain young chap before publishing your nonsense.."
You see this is what im talking about your looking at an 8 point defeat, in a dirge of an approach to a football game - as progress. You mention Newbridge, im inclined to think the Kildare apporch is no where. You are just conditioning young lads into 10 years of inferiority again the Dublin. Thats Kildares problem, sublimely the dont believe they are top team. Thats the difference between Kildare and Meath, that arrogance (in a good way) and belief and they rattled the 6 ina row Dubs.

You can sling mud all you want, we will leave the game behind and not give it a second thought, another non disrecript affair, just a date to be met and to move on from, never to be brought to memory again, we got far more from playing Meath.

I think we both know Kildare vote regularly to keep Dublin in Croke Park on the Leinster Council, given the state of how the county finances have been run, so you can save the high hoarseness - besides how many games did Kildare play in Newbridge in 98 and during the MIcko championship era, you make me laugh Newbridge or Nowhere, you were quick to cotton ball Newbridge when it suited you, indeed, pots and kettles.

You definitely have me wrong, i was talking about respect for Dublin, for goodness sake, look at the fear ball you played on Sun, we dont ask for respect its given freely by counties like Kildare. I was making the comparison between Meath and Kildare, i left Croke park after the semi with respect for Meath, the final was just 70 mins of fear ball i had to sit through.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 13:47:10    2367555

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Replying To brianb:  "I think it can be a bit more nuanced than that. Yes - I am disappointed that Kildare didn't have a proper go at times in the match - especially when a goal goes in 10 mins from time to bring it back to 5 points. But I don't think the right approach would have been to go man to man and get opened up by Dublin at will. The big killer for Kildare was the amount of ball dropped into Comerford's arms.

But Dublin were equally defensive at times when Kildare had the ball - employing a sweeper and generally double marking Dan Flynn. But that is what teams do - try to negate the opposition strengths while playing to your own which in Dublin's case is ball retention / recycling with accurate passes and strength. Kildare had ambition and were trying to get quick ball into Hyland and Flynn but were normally stopped and bottled up by Dublin in midfield.

I would not say that I was frustrated by Dublin's approach - but I think it's worth calling out that Dublin encouraged Kildare to get men behind the ball and were happy to play around this as it was playing to their strengths. Obviously most of the Kildare players will be behind the ball when Dublin play the ball back 70/80 meters instead of taking a low percentage shot.

Some of the more encouraging signs for Kildare this year were in defense. Had the tightest defense in the top 2 divisions of the league and didn't concede a goal in the championship - coming from how easily Meath could open up the defense last year that is a big step forward."
To be fair it is the men behind the ball that encourages the "keep-ball", not the other way round!

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 429 - 04/08/2021 13:49:03    2367557

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Replying To brianb:  "I think it can be a bit more nuanced than that. Yes - I am disappointed that Kildare didn't have a proper go at times in the match - especially when a goal goes in 10 mins from time to bring it back to 5 points. But I don't think the right approach would have been to go man to man and get opened up by Dublin at will. The big killer for Kildare was the amount of ball dropped into Comerford's arms.

But Dublin were equally defensive at times when Kildare had the ball - employing a sweeper and generally double marking Dan Flynn. But that is what teams do - try to negate the opposition strengths while playing to your own which in Dublin's case is ball retention / recycling with accurate passes and strength. Kildare had ambition and were trying to get quick ball into Hyland and Flynn but were normally stopped and bottled up by Dublin in midfield.

I would not say that I was frustrated by Dublin's approach - but I think it's worth calling out that Dublin encouraged Kildare to get men behind the ball and were happy to play around this as it was playing to their strengths. Obviously most of the Kildare players will be behind the ball when Dublin play the ball back 70/80 meters instead of taking a low percentage shot.

Some of the more encouraging signs for Kildare this year were in defense. Had the tightest defense in the top 2 divisions of the league and didn't concede a goal in the championship - coming from how easily Meath could open up the defense last year that is a big step forward."
Id accept a lot of that Brian. Kildare frustrate me at times, because i think they should be better and more ambitious then they are, its not about players they have those. I think its mentality i think they have to have that arrogance, that bit of viciousness, or edge. I think their approach undermined them on Sunday.

Im not sure the front the front press is a Dublin strength to be honest, its the method we came with to beat the blanket, it works, its a dirge, but everybody plays the blacnket against us.

I actually see what we innovated no being used by other counties, pateint build up, keeping the ball - you have to have the players but most counties are doing it an awful lot more, pocession is becoming very precious.

Do you know i wonder, if a team opened up against us, would we know what to do these days its been so long it happened and we definitely dont have the fire power we once did.

My frustration with Kildare comes from a good space in honesty, i played club football in Kildare once upon a time and still would take in the odd club game, i know the talent is there.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 13:54:47    2367560

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Absolutely a stunning goal and he deserved it but no more or less than Murchan's goal v Kerry could have been blown for steps, Flynn could have been done for charging, Kilkenny was penalised earlier for " charging" on the Kildare endline. Previous poster from Leitrim doesn't know the rules, the only legitimate "charge" whether in possession or not is shoulder to shoulder."
If you look at it closely, Flynn steps to his right past the defender, who moves to block his path, it's not charging, but it doesn't matter, really. After 11 Leinster titles in a row, why bother argue over a goal scored against you? Unfortunately the Leinster championship doesn't really matter. Ye will win the next 11 too.

LeitrimLover94 (Leitrim) - Posts: 17 - 04/08/2021 13:56:16    2367562

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Replying To TheUsername:  "You see this is what im talking about your looking at an 8 point defeat, in a dirge of an approach to a football game - as progress. You mention Newbridge, im inclined to think the Kildare apporch is no where. You are just conditioning young lads into 10 years of inferiority again the Dublin. Thats Kildares problem, sublimely the dont believe they are top team. Thats the difference between Kildare and Meath, that arrogance (in a good way) and belief and they rattled the 6 ina row Dubs.

You can sling mud all you want, we will leave the game behind and not give it a second thought, another non disrecript affair, just a date to be met and to move on from, never to be brought to memory again, we got far more from playing Meath.

I think we both know Kildare vote regularly to keep Dublin in Croke Park on the Leinster Council, given the state of how the county finances have been run, so you can save the high hoarseness - besides how many games did Kildare play in Newbridge in 98 and during the MIcko championship era, you make me laugh Newbridge or Nowhere, you were quick to cotton ball Newbridge when it suited you, indeed, pots and kettles.

You definitely have me wrong, i was talking about respect for Dublin, for goodness sake, look at the fear ball you played on Sun, we dont ask for respect its given freely by counties like Kildare. I was making the comparison between Meath and Kildare, i left Croke park after the semi with respect for Meath, the final was just 70 mins of fear ball i had to sit through."
Not my job to educate you on Leinster Council politics kiddo but its made up entirely of Dubs and wanna be Dubs who need fellow Dubs to progress their "career". Its the Dublin co. board in all but name.
Concentrate on Mayo kiddo and don't concern yourself SO much about Kildare, we know full well its a fixed and meaningless competition (league is now everything for Kildare) and are playing the game that suits us for now..

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 150 - 04/08/2021 15:04:48    2367599

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Id accept a lot of that Brian. Kildare frustrate me at times, because i think they should be better and more ambitious then they are, its not about players they have those. I think its mentality i think they have to have that arrogance, that bit of viciousness, or edge. I think their approach undermined them on Sunday.

Im not sure the front the front press is a Dublin strength to be honest, its the method we came with to beat the blanket, it works, its a dirge, but everybody plays the blacnket against us.

I actually see what we innovated no being used by other counties, pateint build up, keeping the ball - you have to have the players but most counties are doing it an awful lot more, pocession is becoming very precious.

Do you know i wonder, if a team opened up against us, would we know what to do these days its been so long it happened and we definitely dont have the fire power we once did.

My frustration with Kildare comes from a good space in honesty, i played club football in Kildare once upon a time and still would take in the odd club game, i know the talent is there."
I've a feeling we're going to find out soon what happens when a team tries to open up against Dublin - I can't see either Mayo, Kerry or Tyrone standing off to the same extent - but I think we'll still see Dublin remaining very cautions with possession. I don't buy the "Dublin in decline" narrative either - and I expect that will be put to bed in the next couple of weeks.

From a Kildare point of view I think there was a game plan in place on Sunday that was to keep it tight and keep the game close and hope to catch the Dubs a bit like Cork did to Kerry last year. I don't think it was a lack of ambition to try that but lack of composure at times took the game away; it was also very evident that Dublin are still well ahead in terms of strength and fitness. But remember this is a very young Kildare team.

I also believe the talent is in the county but if there's one think I'd say everybody would agree on; inter-county footballers can't get by on talent alone. It takes serious graft over years to get to the level Dublin are at. The top players are developed in COE facilities now rather than on local pitches.

To be successful the current generation of Kildare players will need to seriously work hard over the winter. I believe they will and will go into 2022 with a lot more belief.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 15:29:08    2367607

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Replying To sligo joe:  "To be fair it is the men behind the ball that encourages the "keep-ball", not the other way round!"
Its a two way street - if Dublin wanted to try and send quick 60/40 ball into the forward line they could have. They chose a more cautious and methodical approach. It worked - they scored 20 points. Both teams played sweepers and both teams crowed midfield.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 15:36:21    2367610

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Replying To TheUsername:  "You see this is what im talking about your looking at an 8 point defeat, in a dirge of an approach to a football game - as progress. You mention Newbridge, im inclined to think the Kildare apporch is no where. You are just conditioning young lads into 10 years of inferiority again the Dublin. Thats Kildares problem, sublimely the dont believe they are top team. Thats the difference between Kildare and Meath, that arrogance (in a good way) and belief and they rattled the 6 ina row Dubs.

You can sling mud all you want, we will leave the game behind and not give it a second thought, another non disrecript affair, just a date to be met and to move on from, never to be brought to memory again, we got far more from playing Meath.

I think we both know Kildare vote regularly to keep Dublin in Croke Park on the Leinster Council, given the state of how the county finances have been run, so you can save the high hoarseness - besides how many games did Kildare play in Newbridge in 98 and during the MIcko championship era, you make me laugh Newbridge or Nowhere, you were quick to cotton ball Newbridge when it suited you, indeed, pots and kettles.

You definitely have me wrong, i was talking about respect for Dublin, for goodness sake, look at the fear ball you played on Sun, we dont ask for respect its given freely by counties like Kildare. I was making the comparison between Meath and Kildare, i left Croke park after the semi with respect for Meath, the final was just 70 mins of fear ball i had to sit through."
" Othink we both know Kildare vote regularly to keep Dublin in Croke Park on the Leinster Council, given the state of how the county finances have been run, so you can save the high hoarseness - besides how many games did Kildare play in Newbridge in 98 and during the MIcko championship era, you make me laugh Newbridge or Nowhere, you were quick to cotton ball Newbridge when it suited you, indeed, pots and kettles."

You're some man to talk about high hoarseness.

It's funny how Dubs will always bring up other counties voting for all of Dublins games to be in Croke Park as if they're voting against it or something.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 984 - 04/08/2021 15:44:01    2367613

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Replying To cuttothebone:  "Not my job to educate you on Leinster Council politics kiddo but its made up entirely of Dubs and wanna be Dubs who need fellow Dubs to progress their "career". Its the Dublin co. board in all but name.
Concentrate on Mayo kiddo and don't concern yourself SO much about Kildare, we know full well its a fixed and meaningless competition (league is now everything for Kildare) and are playing the game that suits us for now.."
Sure its all a massive conspiracy mate your own county board are Du6s want to bes sure - sure theyd have to be, good news tinfoil in cheap in Dealz in Athy for your hat making purposes, beware the radio waves!

Always next year, every year a chara.........................!

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 16:35:59    2367639

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Sure its all a massive conspiracy mate your own county board are Du6s want to bes sure - sure theyd have to be, good news tinfoil in cheap in Dealz in Athy for your hat making purposes, beware the radio waves!

Always next year, every year a chara.........................!"
The "conspiracy" is fairly well documented at this stage. 16/17 Leinster titles since Sean Kelly's committee decided to fund the Dubs revolution in 2003.

Its still 15 v 15 on the pitch but off the pitch its another question. That is slowly being addressed but it will take a few more years for the effect to be seen at senior level.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 17:15:19    2367659

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Replying To brianb:  "Its a two way street - if Dublin wanted to try and send quick 60/40 ball into the forward line they could have. They chose a more cautious and methodical approach. It worked - they scored 20 points. Both teams played sweepers and both teams crowed midfield."
Fair dues to the player that can kick 60/40 ball to a forward line with 13 or 14 defenders facing him!
It was very clear from O'Connors pre-match comments that his priority was to avoid a heavy defeat rather than go after the game and fair dues, he achieved his priority.
Considering how Kildare set up the only way that Dublin could lose this game was to be impatient and reckless with their shooting, why but why would they play into Kildare's hands and offer them chances of hitting on the break.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 429 - 04/08/2021 17:23:28    2367664

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Replying To brianb:  "The "conspiracy" is fairly well documented at this stage. 16/17 Leinster titles since Sean Kelly's committee decided to fund the Dubs revolution in 2003.

Its still 15 v 15 on the pitch but off the pitch its another question. That is slowly being addressed but it will take a few more years for the effect to be seen at senior level."
I've posted reams on it here over the years and yet to be corrected when its come down to it. I've yet to see a convincing argument on over funding and ive looked into it a lot. Its fools gold in my opinion and a convenient out. But lads can make their own minds up.

We are seeing the end of our natural cycle now - if Dublin win an All Ireland this year, it will be a failure by better teams than Dublin in the country - i don't personally think Dublin will win this year. No funding is going to change that really, nor did it have much bearing on its genesis in my opinion. Id actually query a lot of the funding and how successful the model has been DCB in terms of participation with it.

The argument goes over back without much acceptance of key acceptance, at this stage its pretty pointless, you just accept lads have different opinions and the twain wont meet.

You are clearly on one end of the spectrum and me another, we both feel we have the "facts" and are justified and on and on the wheel turns.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 18:06:23    2367675

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Dan Flynn is getting lauded for his performance. It feels slightly patronising but the man is an incredible talent and I'm glad it's getting recognised. I'd also just like to bring up, because nobody else will pay him dues and Dublin didn't create a goal chance, that Mark Donnellan has had a flawless season. Unbelievable he's been. Will be overshadowed by Comerford stepping into Cluxton's boots and Beggan who's just a tad mad. Best keeper in the country in my opinion.

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 310 - 04/08/2021 19:11:19    2367713

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Replying To Sweetspot:  "Dan Flynn is getting lauded for his performance. It feels slightly patronising but the man is an incredible talent and I'm glad it's getting recognised. I'd also just like to bring up, because nobody else will pay him dues and Dublin didn't create a goal chance, that Mark Donnellan has had a flawless season. Unbelievable he's been. Will be overshadowed by Comerford stepping into Cluxton's boots and Beggan who's just a tad mad. Best keeper in the country in my opinion."
100% agree. When we had the porous defence last couple of years Mark was still stopping multiple shots per game. 2 goals all season is a credit to the whole team in fairness. Saved a few pints too :)

St.Conleth (Kildare) - Posts: 1687 - 04/08/2021 19:46:31    2367730

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I've posted reams on it here over the years and yet to be corrected when its come down to it. I've yet to see a convincing argument on over funding and ive looked into it a lot. Its fools gold in my opinion and a convenient out. But lads can make their own minds up.

We are seeing the end of our natural cycle now - if Dublin win an All Ireland this year, it will be a failure by better teams than Dublin in the country - i don't personally think Dublin will win this year. No funding is going to change that really, nor did it have much bearing on its genesis in my opinion. Id actually query a lot of the funding and how successful the model has been DCB in terms of participation with it.

The argument goes over back without much acceptance of key acceptance, at this stage its pretty pointless, you just accept lads have different opinions and the twain wont meet.

You are clearly on one end of the spectrum and me another, we both feel we have the "facts" and are justified and on and on the wheel turns."
Perhaps it is a natural cycle and the rich talent coming through Dublin is a golden generation. That seems to be the main argument. Pretty impressive generation that is able to win 16/17 Leinster titles. When you look at the Dublin team who won 5 in a row; they had 8 survivors in the starting line-up from the first one. Compare that to Kerry's team where there were 13 players common to their first and started in the 5-in-a-row game. To me that suggests something else is going on to tip the scales towards the Dubs. I do believe that in recent years the GAA have started to take steps to readdressing that balance.

Having said that - I think the one thing we'd agree on with this issue is that no amount of money will put the ball over the bar.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 20:07:58    2367737

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Fair dues to the player that can kick 60/40 ball to a forward line with 13 or 14 defenders facing him!
It was very clear from O'Connors pre-match comments that his priority was to avoid a heavy defeat rather than go after the game and fair dues, he achieved his priority.
Considering how Kildare set up the only way that Dublin could lose this game was to be impatient and reckless with their shooting, why but why would they play into Kildare's hands and offer them chances of hitting on the break."
Lets wait and see how Dublin play against Mayo. I fully expect to see the same patient build up and probing around the edges.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 04/08/2021 20:10:57    2367740

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Replying To brianb:  "Perhaps it is a natural cycle and the rich talent coming through Dublin is a golden generation. That seems to be the main argument. Pretty impressive generation that is able to win 16/17 Leinster titles. When you look at the Dublin team who won 5 in a row; they had 8 survivors in the starting line-up from the first one. Compare that to Kerry's team where there were 13 players common to their first and started in the 5-in-a-row game. To me that suggests something else is going on to tip the scales towards the Dubs. I do believe that in recent years the GAA have started to take steps to readdressing that balance.

Having said that - I think the one thing we'd agree on with this issue is that no amount of money will put the ball over the bar."
A combination of factors I think, that's experiential on the ground. We were very lucky, to have a group of players come along, some very talented and some who just exceptionally improved themselves, Bernard speaks very equalantly about it as Superstar syndrome, essentially hit young things don't alway succeed, but the lads who are never the super stars in fact often rejected are spurned on by that rejection, work twice as hard to develop and eventually over take superstars - we had a good few of those lads, Bernard himself, Fenton, MDM, O Gara, Macker, Bastick, Flynner, Philly and maybe even Cluxton - you wouldn't have picked anyone of those lads out at underage in fact many didn't always make that grade, but they fought for it, that created the culture.

We were then blessed with actual superstars breaking throuh with coming into that culture, Costello, Jack, Kilkenny, Con and Howard - you could tell from outer space we're going to make it. Lads like John Small, Murch, Mannion were maybes but came into the above culture.

The whole thing gloriously came together, we had 25 of pure quality a perfect balance of winning culture, high standards youth, expierence, hard work and fight, it was fierce and player driven. It brought them all to new heights.

Structurally, I think a big contribution was Gavin particularly took club politics out of the County team, Giller was getting there but he was very much a Vincent's man and that showed. Historically the Dublin Senior team was bar a few excretions mostly made up of a Northside strongholds. Crokes for example we're winning club All Ireland in the 90s and very few of their players got a crack at Dublin, the ones that did would tell you there faces never fit. There was always that divide, that changed over this era, the two half of the Liffey came together to form one Dublin that was significant.

I'd also acknowledge funding helped, not the GDF, but the commercial funding. Dublin want for nothing but the County team pays for itself through commercial revenue, it's a juggernaut, I'd have no problem saying that. That allowed Dublin to always innovate and be at the cutting edge, leading the arms race in a way, now everyone's following.

Off the field a strategic plan was put in place at County level, not only that but it was project managed to implementation which maximised Dublin as an entity in synergy in terms of commercial potential, sporting excellence and development. We were very luck to have some captains of industry lend themselves to this and volunteer to assist Dublin GAA fulfil its potential. I mean Giller himself is no slouch on that score.

The huge criticism of course is GDF for the big population, to be honest I'm not sure that's a wise investment. Participation rates haven't increased significantly since Kelly started his plan. The Dubs success saved his blushes in many ways. But I think we are returning to mean now, what we have achieved isn't sustainable in the long term, as it's a combination of so many vairbles all going right at the same time for a short period. I see the regression.

I don't really care what other counties do or have done, we're Dublin, we're trail blazers, we do it our own way, it's our way.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 04/08/2021 21:08:20    2367757

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