National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To CocknyTribesman:  "Just curious. How were the pairings for semi finals decided?"
Limerick had already played Cork in Munster championship so to avoid a repeat Cork have to play Kilkenny which leaves Limerick facing Waterford.

M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 465 - 01/08/2021 13:35:32    2366394

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Replying To M Lyster:  "Limerick had already played Cork in Munster championship so to avoid a repeat Cork have to play Kilkenny which leaves Limerick facing Waterford."
I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3057 - 01/08/2021 13:47:44    2366402

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Yes Tipperary could have snuck that one. The goal chances missed at the end ,one of them taken would have been enough. The better team won though, no doubt about that. End of the road for more than 2 or 3. Id say 5 or 6. Bubbles, mcGraths, Brendan and Paudie Maher and Seamus Callinan. I might be writing off Seamus Callinan and John McGrath a tad prematurely but their best days are behind them.
I agree they've been a fantastic team and played fantastic hurling. 3 All Irelands is a good haul but there are caveats. They sometimes weren't up for it in the real heat of those Kilkenny games back 5 + years ago. They physically and mentally wilted a few times. That's against the greatest team of all time. They've never got a handle on the current Limerick team either and that's an asterix hanging over them aswell. So there are a few question marks but each of their All Irelands was hard won and I'd include the most recent won. They way they recovered after the Munster final was unreal in 2019."
Would you make the same argument against Kk in the games they lost against Tipp? Just curious - I wouldn't.
It was 3 wins each and a draw in all Ireland finals between the two over the course of 8 seasons and Tipp actually have an aggregate of +19 across all 7 games.
Limerick have a great team now but they came up against the best of Tipp when they were at the end of their careers and no where near their peak. Even you surely realise that! There's nothing worse than kicking lads when they're down.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/08/2021 14:19:17    2366416

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play."
How would you do it without an open draw?

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 01/08/2021 14:34:57    2366423

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Kilkenny showed Limerick how being too cocky can bite you in 2019 and that was a Kilkenny team that were somewhat weaker than the previous version.
Limerick may have learned a lesson from that and will be better prepared to combat that now but still remains to be seen.
Kilkenny will still have a big say in this year's championship and would relish a meeting with Limerick. You wouldn't bet against them either. All to play for.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 01/08/2021 14:37:23    2366426

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play."
Congrats on yesterday Canuck what a performance I predicted myself that ye would beat galway and tipp hopefully there's enough left in the tank next Saturday some team..I'm living in Waterford and have gone to a few Waterford games over the years to cheer them on (when wexford get knocked out). I'll be attending next Saturday's game I can't wait best of luck :)..

juan31 (Wexford) - Posts: 169 - 01/08/2021 15:36:48    2366444

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play."
It is done by results on the field of play.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 01/08/2021 15:38:07    2366445

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play."
They don't play a round less in the qualifiers necessarily. Cork for example could have easily been drawn in the first round of the qualifiers this year but they got a bye when drawn out of a hat.
Personally I think Ckre got the raw deal going in at same round as Waterford despite beating them.
It's not completely like for like but take the Olympic boxing "semi finals" - the two strongest could happen to be in one semi quite easily.
I do have an issue with the qualifiers this year but not in the way you do. I think there's a good argument to say munster has been stronger the last couple of years abs could end up winning 5 from 6 this year but that'll swing around again. In the history of the GAA in both codes teams and provinces can dominate but it always swings back again.
I'm sure it'll be back to the groups for next year anyway. Getting rid of the provincial cships is not for me.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/08/2021 16:42:17    2366465

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Replying To tiobraid:  "They don't play a round less in the qualifiers necessarily. Cork for example could have easily been drawn in the first round of the qualifiers this year but they got a bye when drawn out of a hat.
Personally I think Ckre got the raw deal going in at same round as Waterford despite beating them.
It's not completely like for like but take the Olympic boxing "semi finals" - the two strongest could happen to be in one semi quite easily.
I do have an issue with the qualifiers this year but not in the way you do. I think there's a good argument to say munster has been stronger the last couple of years abs could end up winning 5 from 6 this year but that'll swing around again. In the history of the GAA in both codes teams and provinces can dominate but it always swings back again.
I'm sure it'll be back to the groups for next year anyway. Getting rid of the provincial cships is not for me."
Wexford and Clare both got drawn in the 1st round of the qualifiers despite both winning provincial quarter finals. The 2 teams that got byes had a 100% losing record up to that point and Galway then lost again. It isn't a fair system.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15875 - 01/08/2021 17:18:23    2366477

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Replying To Canuck:  "I don't care what team it is ,these draws are terrible because of the provincial championships. Firstly the winners have been seeded by having to play no first round game. Out of a hat. Straight to a semi final. If they loose that semi they play a round less in the qualifiers. If they win the final straight to another seeded All-Ireland semi final. They can't play the other provincial finalist. All started because of the luck of the hat. This is not the way to decide pairings. It should be done by results on the field of play."
"Lose" not " loose". So many posters make this spelling mistake. I feel compelled to correct it!

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 01/08/2021 17:53:50    2366502

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Replying To Rockies:  ""Lose" not " loose". So many posters make this spelling mistake. I feel compelled to correct it!"
You do know of course they may not have made a mistake? Predictive text often changes words from what a person intends to write to something completely different.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2020 - 01/08/2021 19:45:44    2366569

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Replying To Rockies:  ""Lose" not " loose". So many posters make this spelling mistake. I feel compelled to correct it!"
Grammar Police have invaded the site...lol!

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 01/08/2021 19:54:02    2366577

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Would you make the same argument against Kk in the games they lost against Tipp? Just curious - I wouldn't.
It was 3 wins each and a draw in all Ireland finals between the two over the course of 8 seasons and Tipp actually have an aggregate of +19 across all 7 games.
Limerick have a great team now but they came up against the best of Tipp when they were at the end of their careers and no where near their peak. Even you surely realise that! There's nothing worse than kicking lads when they're down."
In fairness Limerick did beat Tipp in, '13, '14, '18,'19,'20 and '21- That is a fair record against a county of Tipps caliber. I agree Tipp were a great team and where as KK, even as far back as '09, always found it hard enough to beat Tipp, the Premier absolutely hockeyed them in '10. '16 and '19.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 01/08/2021 20:16:23    2366584

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Grammar Police have invaded the site...lol!"
What have Limerick got to lose if they let the sliotar loose and do a bit of ground hurling - instead of throwing it around like a hot potato ;)

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 01/08/2021 21:17:42    2366622

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Replying To baire:  "What have Limerick got to lose if they let the sliotar loose and do a bit of ground hurling - instead of throwing it around like a hot potato ;)"
Some teams are primed to lose, as they are guilty of loose marking in defense!

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 01/08/2021 21:36:22    2366632

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Replying To baire:  "What have Limerick got to lose if they let the sliotar loose and do a bit of ground hurling - instead of throwing it around like a hot potato ;)"
Baire. You go on as if Limerick invented hand passing. As far back as 1999, Cork won an All Ireland with a team which done an inordinate amount of hand passing. Cork teams have continued this practice.. If you watch the classic '18 Semi Final (Ck/LK) - with an open mind- you will be shocked to discover that Cork actually gave more hand passes than Limerick that day. This was the main reason they were out on their feet in the last minutes of the game.
Incidentally we were doing hurling on the ground later anybody else and it did us absolutely no good. That kind of thing was like a lighthouse in a bog- brilliant to look at, but useless.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4495 - 01/08/2021 21:39:14    2366636

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Replying To baire:  "What have Limerick got to lose if they let the sliotar loose and do a bit of ground hurling - instead of throwing it around like a hot potato ;)"
Modern coaches would take the head off any player over the age of 8 who hurled the ball on the ground rather than try to pick it. Unfortunately for the aesthetics of the game, but ground hurling is not the % play.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3561 - 01/08/2021 21:50:14    2366645

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "In fairness Limerick did beat Tipp in, '13, '14, '18,'19,'20 and '21- That is a fair record against a county of Tipps caliber. I agree Tipp were a great team and where as KK, even as far back as '09, always found it hard enough to beat Tipp, the Premier absolutely hockeyed them in '10. '16 and '19."
You forget to mention all the time KK beat Tipp in semi finals and qualifies.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 157 - 01/08/2021 23:51:55    2366697

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Would you make the same argument against Kk in the games they lost against Tipp? Just curious - I wouldn't.
It was 3 wins each and a draw in all Ireland finals between the two over the course of 8 seasons and Tipp actually have an aggregate of +19 across all 7 games.
Limerick have a great team now but they came up against the best of Tipp when they were at the end of their careers and no where near their peak. Even you surely realise that! There's nothing worse than kicking lads when they're down."
How can you say it 3 wins each with + 19 for tipp.. Kk beat you 5 times in semi finals and qualifies one time by 18 points. So it kk 5 to tipp 3 with a plus scoring for kk.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 157 - 02/08/2021 03:07:45    2366722

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Replying To gatha:  "How would you do it without an open draw?"
First the provincial championship separate from the All-Ireland series. Two conferences league with with cross over at knock out stage. There is several options how to form these conferences. Possible the provincial finalist the first two in opposite conferences.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3057 - 02/08/2021 03:54:45    2366723

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