National Forum

Dublin Vs Kerry

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Replying To browncows:  "So you have to lie down for a penalty. I have never seen that rule!. Is it called the 'lie down rule'!!"
Look it up yourself.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 23/05/2021 19:30:57    2344701

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another game ruined by Dublin's backpassing. It is long past time the rules are changed that the ball can't go past the half way line with a backwards pass by the attacking team... and for those who say there isn't a halfway line, well it should be introduced.

the_creeler (Leitrim) - Posts: 119 - 23/05/2021 19:41:37    2344709

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Replying To captainshamrock:  "Completely.... O Callaghan for me, Clifford wasn't great in the first half to be fair, great in the second . David Moran had a particular off day for me."
Fenton too looked very disinterested, never seemed to over- exert himself.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 23/05/2021 19:42:51    2344710

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Replying To browncows:  "So you have to lie down for a penalty. I have never seen that rule!. Is it called the 'lie down rule'!!"
Then the defender would have been guilty of pulling him to the ground which is a black card and with the new rules, a penalty.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 453 - 23/05/2021 19:44:17    2344711

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I enjoyed the game although if I was a neutral I might not have. It was like a challenge game. There was no intensity or hard tackling. Neither team wanted to risk injuries as its so close to championship. Kerry are in league semi now even if they lose to Rossies but if Kerry win semi there is no final as Kerry play championship following week. Kerry s main focus is achieved (survival). Anything more is a bonus. Besides the brilliance of the two so called Kings Con and David the other main players were the players fighting for positions. The nailed on starters on both teams just seemed to be going through the motions. Delighted Kerry did nt drop their heads and fought back. I'd worry about our defense but tin reality you don't come up against the likes of Con Kilkenny and Costello everyday. On injuries I want to wish John Small a speedy recovery.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2741 - 23/05/2021 19:58:55    2344717

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Slightly off topic. Watched this game and then my beloved royal county. Are refs getting worse ? Are they not up to speed on rules. The inconsistency is beyond a joke. Btw I am not saying the ref in Armagh was biased. Nope he equally gave non frees to both teams, didn't give blatant fouls, 3 black cards none of them actual black card offences. Now yes the red card was a right call. But wow the standards are getting worse every year.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17787 - 23/05/2021 20:56:30    2344733

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Replying To the_creeler:  "another game ruined by Dublin's backpassing. It is long past time the rules are changed that the ball can't go past the half way line with a backwards pass by the attacking team... and for those who say there isn't a halfway line, well it should be introduced."
Fair enough if there is also a rule that each team must have a minimum number of players (say 5) in the opposition half at all times, then the team in possession will be more likely to have opportunities to pass forward and less opportunities to pass backwards.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 23/05/2021 21:01:00    2344736

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If Kerry even had a bad defence they'd have won that. Kerry defence is as bad as Tyrone's. Thought the penalty against Kerry was harsh. The tackle was a bit high, but it was soft, but the Dublin lad still goes down roaring as if he'd been tasered.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1057 - 23/05/2021 21:24:26    2344744

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Fair enough if there is also a rule that each team must have a minimum number of players (say 5) in the opposition half at all times, then the team in possession will be more likely to have opportunities to pass forward and less opportunities to pass backwards."
Isn't there something like that in basketball? Once you get into the opposition half, you're not allowed to pass back into your own half.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1057 - 23/05/2021 21:29:25    2344746

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Replying To Joxer:  "Kerry finished with the strongest legs all the same KB. The months without training and only hauling bails of hay around and working the farm has obviously kept a lot of lads fit. It was a good run out for a few of our young fellas and will stand to us but very disappointed in our first half finishing against that defence. Sure it's only the league as they say. Kerry have earned their favourites tag having demolished Galway and galloping back against the 6 in a row champs. Fix that defence and there'll be no stopping this green machine."
That defence you say? That's the only defence we have joxer, I'd say Dessie was smiling away to himself where ever he was held up, he got the handiest gig in gaelic football just go in and carry out Jim gavins basketball tactics with the athletes that have been farmed thanks to all the gaa money, in fairness the gaa are getting some return for their investment.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13615 - 23/05/2021 21:30:04    2344747

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Replying To the_creeler:  "another game ruined by Dublin's backpassing. It is long past time the rules are changed that the ball can't go past the half way line with a backwards pass by the attacking team... and for those who say there isn't a halfway line, well it should be introduced."
Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 23/05/2021 21:31:57    2344749

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Slightly off topic. Watched this game and then my beloved royal county. Are refs getting worse ? Are they not up to speed on rules. The inconsistency is beyond a joke. Btw I am not saying the ref in Armagh was biased. Nope he equally gave non frees to both teams, didn't give blatant fouls, 3 black cards none of them actual black card offences. Now yes the red card was a right call. But wow the standards are getting worse every year."
I think you're right. May be an argument that refs need to be paid pros. And I'd like to see them being mixed up and explaining things, and giving teams a verbal warning that they see any messing that's developing and that any more of it will result in cards. Works well in rugby.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1057 - 23/05/2021 21:32:58    2344750

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Replying To captainshamrock:  "I'm confused, ok if there was too many steps....fair enough, but then I thought it would have been a black card and a penalty it as it was obviously a goal scoring opportunity? .... (we know it was a goal scoring chance as he scored the goal)"
Good point. And even if the ref was technically correct, we all know that the overcarrying rule is so widely ignored that it might as well be taken out of the rule book. Plenty of other overcarrying in that game went unchecked by the ref. Thought it was a good goal . Think back to Murchan's goal in 2019 - he took about 10 steps. Goal stood. That kind of inconsistency at top level refereeing is infuriating

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1057 - 23/05/2021 21:40:49    2344752

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Replying To browncows:  "Your idea of entertaining is different to mine. Match was interesting in that it was close near the end and some good skills from O' Callaghan and Clifford , However, as a game it was poor with some very negative football by Dublin for long periods with hand passing the ball backwards (for over 60m) on many occasions."
Two teams playing to win a game of football, being entertaining is irrelevant to them. The backwards handpassing was definitely not entertaining but I think the quality football from both teams outweighs the negatives. A good game to see on the telly on a Sunday afternoon with the result always in doubt. And neither of them getting out of second gear!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 23/05/2021 22:01:08    2344760

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense"
Extraordinary that people complain about backward passing in this day and age.

The game has moved on. I look at Gaelic football now like I am watching soccer. Dublin play like Man City… they keep two players always stuck to each sideline (like Sterling and Mahrez) as they attack and they transfer quickly across the pitch looking for space and a 2 versus situation for an overlap. It's very simple. They will go back and forth and across until this overlap or gap appears. They are refusing to run down blind alleyways and have ball recycled cheaply. For better or worse, forget about old school football and kicking forward all the time. This only happens when both teams throw caution to the wind and go at it and this happens as rarely as it does in soccer (for eg maybe on the 55 minute mark (70 minute mark in soccer) if teams need a win and simultaneously go for it with substitutions and change of tactics.

The sport in my opinion is prob better for this but it still has long way to go tactically. If people want to watch brainless gung ho and constant scoring I invite them to watch hurling.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1098 - 23/05/2021 22:19:00    2344768

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Fair enough if there is also a rule that each team must have a minimum number of players (say 5) in the opposition half at all times, then the team in possession will be more likely to have opportunities to pass forward and less opportunities to pass backwards."
I'm a firm believer in evolving tactics in GAA. I'm probably one of the few Kerrymen who didn't agree with PSpillane and the puke football nonsense. For too long we had 6 backs v 6 forwards, catch and kick and goalkeepers driving the ball down the middle into 50:50 situations.

In the drawn final in 2019, I wished Kerry had enough street smarts to kill the game like Dublin would have. As far back as 2005 when Kerry lost to Tyrone, I wished Kerry would just slow it down and try to keep possession. Dublin have turned this into possibly their most important weapon to mentally dominate in games. Whenever an opponent gets a bit of momentum, Dublin will kill it by funneling 10 or 11 players back, claiming possession and then keeping the ball for 2 or 3 minutes. Even if Dublin don't score, that period of control replaces the opposition drive and momentum with frustration. Doesn't matter who they are playing or what the score is, they'll take a couple of minutes and show the opposition who the daddy is.

I don't like the idea of changing rules based on tactics employed by one successful team - Dublin have already been penalised through the kick-out changes - but I'm starting to wonder if something might need to be done about the time Dublin kill on these possessions, not necessarily how they do it. Call it smart decision-making, clever ball retention, probing for weakness - it is all of these and fair play to Dublin for having players to do it, but it really is frustrating.

One of the lads on Newstalk once described watching Barcelona as being akin to "watching a beautiful painting dry" - at the moment, watching Dublin is a bit like that.

So, take away the mark, take away the kick out zone, keep the 50 yard line and bring me a 3 minute SHOT CLOCK

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 23/05/2021 22:25:31    2344771

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "That defence you say? That's the only defence we have joxer, I'd say Dessie was smiling away to himself where ever he was held up, he got the handiest gig in gaelic football just go in and carry out Jim gavins basketball tactics with the athletes that have been farmed thanks to all the gaa money, in fairness the gaa are getting some return for their investment."
6 in a row of an investment -;)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2735 - 23/05/2021 22:28:40    2344774

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Two teams playing to win a game of football, being entertaining is irrelevant to them. The backwards handpassing was definitely not entertaining but I think the quality football from both teams outweighs the negatives. A good game to see on the telly on a Sunday afternoon with the result always in doubt. And neither of them getting out of second gear!"
I am commenting as a viewer and I assume you are similar. We all know how good Dublin are and most of us know that Dublin are not interested in how the win -similar to all teams and most of us know that all teams go out to win-not entertain, nothing new in that.
In my opinion the negatives continue to outweigh the positives-maybe the game should now be called handball as there is more use of the hand than the foot and not very pleasant to watch.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2277 - 23/05/2021 22:29:30    2344775

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Replying To essmac:  "Good point. And even if the ref was technically correct, we all know that the overcarrying rule is so widely ignored that it might as well be taken out of the rule book. Plenty of other overcarrying in that game went unchecked by the ref. Thought it was a good goal . Think back to Murchan's goal in 2019 - he took about 10 steps. Goal stood. That kind of inconsistency at top level refereeing is infuriating"
In this incident, the ref's mistake was blowing the whistle b4 the goal was scored. Once the whistle was blown he couldn't allow the score to stand nor could he award a conventional penalty as the foul was outside the box and he couldn't award a penalty under the new rule as it has to be a black card offence i.e deliberate body collide, deliberate trip or deliberate pull down. He blew too early and once he did so his only option was a free kick.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 23/05/2021 22:38:08    2344777

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Replying To jacktheDub:  "Wow people just dont have a clue rules like that play into blanket defences who will know when a team passes the half way line cant go back and will just smother the attacking team..the blanket is the curse on the game keeping the ball is what makes the blanket nonsense"
The blanket is a curse - but lets not pretend that Dublin don't play a modified blanket themselves. How else can Dublin break from defence with 5 or 6 players, yet still have 3 men in around the house? Dublin have attacking flair as well, but so did Tyrone and Donegal back in the day.

The Dublin possession game is also cynical though - it seeks to frustrate the opposition who then foul as soon as contact is initiated. Probing for openings is one thing, but taking 2 or 3 minutes to intentionally play laterally is another.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 23/05/2021 22:45:42    2344781

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