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Monaghan

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Replying To realdub:  "Are Meath training pal?"
Not at moment no, there was rumours going around in jan feb. But with andys niece been the minister for justice it would be probably a bigger controversy than dub, and definitely front page news as it would turn political too. So by all accounts all players are training individually but no collective. That's the news I'm hearing anyway.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17816 - 09/04/2021 10:11:59    2336535

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Suspending the managers is not much of a punishment.Suspend the players for a month from when competition recommences."
There has a big problem with the number of penalties that the GAA can give during the current pandemic. There is also a problem that when you give a penalty or number of them for the first scenario, we are then stuck with giving the very same penalty to subsequent situations.

As an organisation we respond in the negative when penalties are imposed, we look for every possible loophole to shorten or limit the imposed penalty. That is not something we should be proud of either.

Looks to me that ok, Cork and Down got the same penalties, but then weeks later Dublin offend and the GAA is hamstrung by the penalties imposed on Cork and Down.
That makes little sense to me as Dublin and most recently Monaghan have 'offended' and should be hit with a much stricter set of penalties as they gave absolutely NO excuse for training in groups secretly when all the advice goes against such behaviour.
This should he set against the current backdrop where many close to the GAA are convinced that many many counties are continuing to break the rules.

All know what is expected but many who know what is going on continue to downplay this reality by denigrating NPHET,the government, the HSE, and have their own beliefs...shure aren't they out in the fresh air etc etc and what harm are they doing ?
The GAA is a great organisation but for me those counties who have been 'outed' and those who have not been caught have let us all down, have brought the GAA into disrepute in the eyes of the rest of the nation and should be dealt with far more severely.

GAA rules and procedures needs to be updated and given flexibility to deal with same.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1646 - 09/04/2021 10:31:32    2336537

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Replying To carlowman:  "There has a big problem with the number of penalties that the GAA can give during the current pandemic. There is also a problem that when you give a penalty or number of them for the first scenario, we are then stuck with giving the very same penalty to subsequent situations.

As an organisation we respond in the negative when penalties are imposed, we look for every possible loophole to shorten or limit the imposed penalty. That is not something we should be proud of either.

Looks to me that ok, Cork and Down got the same penalties, but then weeks later Dublin offend and the GAA is hamstrung by the penalties imposed on Cork and Down.
That makes little sense to me as Dublin and most recently Monaghan have 'offended' and should be hit with a much stricter set of penalties as they gave absolutely NO excuse for training in groups secretly when all the advice goes against such behaviour.
This should he set against the current backdrop where many close to the GAA are convinced that many many counties are continuing to break the rules.

All know what is expected but many who know what is going on continue to downplay this reality by denigrating NPHET,the government, the HSE, and have their own beliefs...shure aren't they out in the fresh air etc etc and what harm are they doing ?
The GAA is a great organisation but for me those counties who have been 'outed' and those who have not been caught have let us all down, have brought the GAA into disrepute in the eyes of the rest of the nation and should be dealt with far more severely.

GAA rules and procedures needs to be updated and given flexibility to deal with same."
What excise did Cork and Down give that was acceptable?

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 09/04/2021 10:46:19    2336539

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Replying To carlowman:  "There has a big problem with the number of penalties that the GAA can give during the current pandemic. There is also a problem that when you give a penalty or number of them for the first scenario, we are then stuck with giving the very same penalty to subsequent situations.

As an organisation we respond in the negative when penalties are imposed, we look for every possible loophole to shorten or limit the imposed penalty. That is not something we should be proud of either.

Looks to me that ok, Cork and Down got the same penalties, but then weeks later Dublin offend and the GAA is hamstrung by the penalties imposed on Cork and Down.
That makes little sense to me as Dublin and most recently Monaghan have 'offended' and should be hit with a much stricter set of penalties as they gave absolutely NO excuse for training in groups secretly when all the advice goes against such behaviour.
This should he set against the current backdrop where many close to the GAA are convinced that many many counties are continuing to break the rules.

All know what is expected but many who know what is going on continue to downplay this reality by denigrating NPHET,the government, the HSE, and have their own beliefs...shure aren't they out in the fresh air etc etc and what harm are they doing ?
The GAA is a great organisation but for me those counties who have been 'outed' and those who have not been caught have let us all down, have brought the GAA into disrepute in the eyes of the rest of the nation and should be dealt with far more severely.

GAA rules and procedures needs to be updated and given flexibility to deal with same."
another angle rightly to what you say is Down and Cork have a punishment got and served and their time is done..Dublin (County Boards and Managment at the very least) knew of Cork/Down sins and punishment and still trained..subsequent penalites should be longer for newer offending teams to deter..very easy send home the Dublin Panel and say "your group go and use the Gym thats not publicly opened but have agreed to let us use it Monday-Friday and do your own physical and running and ball work etc...a lesser known rural county wont have access to the gym or possibly any gym with lockdown so it will be only personal home training for them...Dublin again will have more personal amenities available to them through closed gyms and maybe hotel swimming pools etc. that your rural counties wont have...not the original debate I know but relevant all the same..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 867 - 09/04/2021 11:00:14    2336549

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I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up.

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 09/04/2021 11:01:22    2336550

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up."
What nonsense. Your stats are totally off. Laws of the land are not there to be broken,unless you want to live in the Wild West. And just to try to get through to your
header head, lock down was to restrict movement. Nothing to do with lads kicking a ball around a field.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 201 - 09/04/2021 11:24:27    2336559

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up."
Well dont give up ! I can see and feel your frustration but let's be clear here, the guidelines and rules are there to protect those who are vulnerable in our society.
That is why they are there. I have known too many in my community struck down by covid, and who have died before their time due to covid.

And let's also be clear, the GAA have backed the public health advice and have demanded that counties stay away from the pitches...health is wealth as the saying goes and its oh so true.

Now we have had 4 counties named who decided to flaunt the rules, do their own thing, not heed the guidance and not trust their players to do their own prep by having group sessions. Who do these think they are... above the guidance and yes the rules ?
While the rest of the country stay at home, have not met with grandchildren have not attended family funerals etc etc.... serious hardships and we have had 4 managers given a 12 week suspension and forfeiture of 1 home league game. Pathetic response from the GAA.
To me, the 4 counties have in trying to be 'one up' on the opposition have flagrantly given a kick in the stomach to all of us who are trying to keep our loved ones safe.
We in the GAA had to endure the rightful indignation when club teams in a number of counties in Cork Galway and Cavan celebrated their county finals and the numbers of cases increased directly associated with these.
The GAA have taken plaudits for their community involvement in helping out the elderly during the pandemic and yet we have county managers who are 'of their communities' giving permission for training to take place.... I despair at their arrogance.

I am a very proud GAA man and I will defend it when it deserves to be defended but what these 4 counties have been doing is not defendable. It has brought the association well down the pecking order in the eyes of the general public and to FAS members who gave followed the guidance.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1646 - 09/04/2021 11:43:05    2336566

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up."
I hear what you are saying. In general the outrage stuff does my head in.

I mean take golf gate, and i am in no way connected to any of those involved, but the restaurants were open at the time, they were all full and most did not stick to the 90 minute rule, yet these guys were hung drawn and quartered when the reality is that if they were from different groups i.e. not connected to each other, the meal broke no law. But because they were one group even though spaced as if different groups it broke the rules. The RTE leaving lunch was ridiculous as well. The outraged brigade were in full force.

From a GAA point of view there is an endemic problem with people abiding by any rules. Cute hoorism is celebrated. If nothing else they were trying to get an unfair advantage....commit a foul in other words. If you get away with a foul u have an advantage but if u get caught suffer the consequences. What does make this slightly worse is it was an organised session and not just a few lads in a field and also it was a clear breach of the rules..... no grey area.

There should be an internal GAA punishment and move on. The guards should issue fines the same way they would to the general public, and if that means they speak to the people involved and decide that while they broke the rules they did try and do it responsible discretion may be applied and no fine (just like if one of us goes for a run and ends up 6k from home). Or issue fines if the breach was serious enough.

I think they do have to take into consideration that an organised session by a county team throws the whole public health message into disrepute.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1474 - 09/04/2021 12:02:53    2336577

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up."
Ahh sure hasn't yer wan off xpose said it's all nonsense. :)

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17816 - 09/04/2021 12:06:52    2336578

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For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 09/04/2021 14:54:54    2336601

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
In terms of breaking Covid rules I don't think it's a big deal for the reasons you state. I'm not a Covid denier either. I do think Covid rules should be followed because we do just need to have physical restrictions to stop the spread but yeah 40 young lads training outdoors is not going to move the needle one bit.

They did cheat based on the GAA rules though. They trained when the knew others shouldn't be. That's a big problem in my book, I'll be honest from that point of view I don't really think suspensions of managers is enough of a punishment. I really hate this attitude that teams don't think the association's rulings apply to them.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3640 - 09/04/2021 15:10:56    2336603

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
Ime involve with underage but the probem is and its very real one...how do you get all these players to games..adults can drive themselves mostly, some dont so are going to need lifts..thats he big deterrent upto now in bringing back underage..outside isnt the probelm, its one mammy or Daddy bringing 3 or 4 young lads in their car..and the stopping off going and coming and in and out of shops etc..I dont agree with all of it, but can see the "getting to and from venue" aspect...and before anyone says it, everyone bring their own child, yes, but some wont and there is the problem too....its not an easy solve but I think we will just have to get on with it now and take our chances...we cant go on like this for another summer....

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 867 - 09/04/2021 15:26:59    2336608

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Replying To seamusorinn:  "What nonsense. Your stats are totally off. Laws of the land are not there to be broken,unless you want to live in the Wild West. And just to try to get through to your
header head, lock down was to restrict movement. Nothing to do with lads kicking a ball around a field."
What ''stats'' of mine are off?

You'd swear i put up a statistics report

I gave you ONE stat: 0.1% of all cases recorded on this island are related to outdoor transmission.

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1992 - 09/04/2021 15:35:40    2336609

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
NPHET were fairly lively out of the blocks to pour cold water on that statistic unfortunately.

Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 09/04/2021 15:45:21    2336610

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
Well it all depends on many factors ConnollyDub, it's not a one size fits all unfortunately when it comes to the chances of catching covid in an outdoor setting.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 09/04/2021 16:11:17    2336615

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "I have to laugh at the outrage by most on here.

Young lads out in a field, kicking a ball around, staying fit and healthy and looking after their mental health.

And now there is a garda investigation into it. A feckin garda investigation !!!WOW lads, what world are we living in today.

People saying ''rules are rules''.... yeah well you know what, rules are there to be broken sometimes.

People are fed up. People should be allowed to train for gods sake.

0.1% of all cases have been related to outdoor activity.

Which means you have a 99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings. Yet here we are not even allowed leave our 5km zone for the last 5 months.

Honestly lads i give up."
No ConnollyDub, unfortunately it doesn't mean one has a "99.9% chance of NOT catching it in outdoor settings" and therein lies the problem.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 09/04/2021 16:22:05    2336619

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
What would the chances be if we hadn't locked down, though ?

0.1% ?

Or more ?

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 09/04/2021 16:32:37    2336621

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "For the record i am in no way a covid denier, or an anti vaxxer or anything like that.

But we are constantly being told that government are just ''following the science''

Well the science is telling us that the chance of catching covid in an outdoor setting are slim to none.. 0.1%

Ok people broke rules, rules apply to everyone. And they should be punished and all that..

But this fox outrage, my god lads....get a grip"
So I've heard this 0.1% figure a couple of times today, and thought I'd take a look.

It's encouraging data, and hopefully will lead to some easing of strict outdoor rules. However, people need to be careful with stats like this, and how they get thrown around.

For example, it's not accurate to say the chances of getting covid outdoor are 0.1%. The actual data says that of all known Covid cases recorded, 0.1% can be traced to outdoor activity.

The truth is, the actual likelihood of catching Covid outdoors is probably a lot less, maybe 0.01% , or 0.001%. That's because the 0.1% figure relates only to known Covid cases. What about all the instances of people being outdoors and not catching a whiff of Covid at all?

So, in this case, the quoted statistic is inaccurate (in ConnollyDub's favour). Indeed, he might be painting a much bleaker picture than is actually the case and his argument is further supported.

However, 20% of all cases are registered as 'community transmission', which we've come to understand as 'we haven't a clue where it came from'. So, it's reasonable to assume that at least some of those cases originated outdoors.

And further, when you look into the data (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/outdoor-transmission-accounts-for-0-1-of-state-s-covid-19-cases-1.4529036), you could justifiably construct this kind of scare headline based on the statistics;

'Half of all Covid cases and outbreaks associated with outdoor transmission are traced to sporting activities and fitness'

So, that presents things in a different light, no? Suddenly, that group training looks like a far riskier proposition. (even though it's not really, but can be spun to seem so.)

And one further consideration: Maybe an important factor in the low outdoor transmission rates in known cases is the fact that we're not really engaging in much outdoor activity, particularly group and close contact activity because, you know, lockdown.

So, what does all this mean?

Well, as I see it, the low transmission rates should be a motivation for easing lockdown. But when that happens, expect cases linked to outdoor transmission to rise because we're all engaging in more outdoor activity. And as we can see from the above, once the sports ramps up, 50% of outdoor cases might continue to be attributed to this close contact activity. So half of a much higher number of cases will originate from sports.

And of course, given that people engaging in sports ore younger and healthier, they are less likely to be vaccinated. Whereas older persons engaging in outdoor activity will be more likely to be vaccinated. So sports % could rise even more.

And, of course, I may be talking through my hat. You know what they say about lies & statistics.

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 125 - 09/04/2021 17:06:09    2336623

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "What would the chances be if we hadn't locked down, though ?

0.1% ?

Or more ?"
Well the health service would have collapsed for a start.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 09/04/2021 17:32:12    2336624

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Whens the draw for the ulster championship?

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 262 - 09/04/2021 17:38:53    2336625

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