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Replying To Meathball: "Colm O' Rourke (and people on here) I feel may be talking up a bit too much the positive impact of bringing in a few of this year under 20's (after their championship ends) into the Senior panel for the Leinster championship.
Although the under 20's prospects look very good, they have the players to go a long way and a great chance of getting silverware this year, it does not mean they have the players necessarily better at this stage of their development than the lads Colm played last Saturday against Dublin.
Firstly for this evenings opening Leinster championship game, eight of those players starting will be eligible to play under 20 again next year and would really be too young in my opinion to be brought in to the Senior set up this year.
All six of the starting backs are under 20 again next year, so in area of the pitch where people think we need shoring up at Senior, it is highly unlikely that any of those six are ready to step up to Senior. There are probably, at best two or three that would be even be considered for playing Senior this year, probably Eoghan Frayne (Summerhill), maybe Ciaran Caufield (Trim) who is just returning from injury this evening, maybe Billy Hogan in goals (Harry's brother), maybe Ruairi Kinsella (Dunshaughlin) and probably Adam McDonnell (Summerhill, if he wasn't injured) who has an ankle injury and has not played any competitive games this year for Meath Under 20's.
Only one player from last years under 20 Meath team has come through (Diarmuid Moriarty) and he is only now beginning to assert himself now getting a start against Dublin last Saturday.
There is no doubting there is great talent coming through, but patience is needed and we shouldn't rush things.
Best of luck Meath under 20's this evening." The u20 are quite a way off senior level and the best we can hope for is a drip feed over next 3/4 years. With luck five or six break through to add something to Meath football. Hopefully we see none of them in Leinster this year because their still involved in u20 championship.For now they are not an añswer, the goal is put foundations in place so they can thrive when time comes.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 27/03/2023 15:24:12
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Colm O' Rourke's post match interview was very interesting.
It seems from what he is saying, he is going to make quite a few changes to the squad of 36 for the championship, releasing some lads back to their clubs, bring lads in from the under 20's, maybe bring in a few lads from the Senior development squad and maybe bring in a few lads playing well for their clubs.
He seems to hoping a few of the under 20's will make a difference this year, which I having looked at the 20's this year, (although doing very well and could go far) may be a bit too optimistic on Colm's part.
First of all if the 20's do very well, they could be playing up till the same week as the Leinster Senior Final, secondly there are very few players on the 20's capable of playing inter county senior championship, maybe Eoghan Frayne & Ciarán Caulfield (who just a got a hamstring injury). The full back Liam Kelly still has another year to go at U20 and only featured as a sub at club Senior championship for Ratoath last year and it would not be wise to have him play at full back at Senior inter county level. There might no harm bringing a few of the U20's into the squad but for people to be hoping that they will have a major impact this year is expecting too much.
Colm should look to the Senior development squad to introduce players into the Senior championship squad for this year.
Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 140 - 27/03/2023 16:20:55
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Replying To Meathball: "Colm O' Rourke's post match interview was very interesting.
It seems from what he is saying, he is going to make quite a few changes to the squad of 36 for the championship, releasing some lads back to their clubs, bring lads in from the under 20's, maybe bring in a few lads from the Senior development squad and maybe bring in a few lads playing well for their clubs.
He seems to hoping a few of the under 20's will make a difference this year, which I having looked at the 20's this year, (although doing very well and could go far) may be a bit too optimistic on Colm's part.
First of all if the 20's do very well, they could be playing up till the same week as the Leinster Senior Final, secondly there are very few players on the 20's capable of playing inter county senior championship, maybe Eoghan Frayne & Ciarán Caulfield (who just a got a hamstring injury). The full back Liam Kelly still has another year to go at U20 and only featured as a sub at club Senior championship for Ratoath last year and it would not be wise to have him play at full back at Senior inter county level. There might no harm bringing a few of the U20's into the squad but for people to be hoping that they will have a major impact this year is expecting too much.
Colm should look to the Senior development squad to introduce players into the Senior championship squad for this year." Thats interesting and welcome that he is open to change, Chronicle podcast always have interview with Colm, so looking forward to listening when it appears. Club players and development squad would seem the way to go for now. If we make it to all Ireland series he may introduce one or two for experience.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 27/03/2023 18:31:54
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Replying To seadog54: "Thats interesting and welcome that he is open to change, Chronicle podcast always have interview with Colm, so looking forward to listening when it appears. Club players and development squad would seem the way to go for now. If we make it to all Ireland series he may introduce one or two for experience." Agree with Liam Kelly, he really needs to nail down a starting spot with ratoath first before lads are thinking about inter county senior set up. That goes for all U-20 players aswel, you have to be starting and actually standing out for your club.
PatrickTopping (Meath) - Posts: 119 - 28/03/2023 09:57:36
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Hearing there's a truth in the story of how O Rourke has handled dropping players from the panel. Again no one will really know what happened except COR and the players themselves.
Look I'm not surprised players are being dropped, some haven't cut it at the level required so far and its very common that inter county teams make changes to the panel between league and championship.
The manner in which he has supposedly dropped them is unacceptable and does leave a lot to be desired in terms of player management. If COR is expecting players to buy in to what he is about he needs to be able to deal with dropping players in a more sensitive manner, some of these lads have given 6 months of their time to Meath so far this year so I would expect him to have a coffee with them, explain why he is dropping them, encourage them to go back to the club and prove him wrong.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 409 - 29/03/2023 13:45:32
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To me the best piece of news this year is that a very good minor team of three years ago have continued that form at u20 unlike in the past 20 + years where decent minor teams have been dreadful at u21 and u20.
Now it is possible that there is less likelihood of a drop off in form at the younger ages but it is still refreshing that their form held for at least three years. If this trend continues we will be in a much better place in a few years.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 30/03/2023 13:59:08
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Replying To MillerX: "To me the best piece of news this year is that a very good minor team of three years ago have continued that form at u20 unlike in the past 20 + years where decent minor teams have been dreadful at u21 and u20.
Now it is possible that there is less likelihood of a drop off in form at the younger ages but it is still refreshing that their form held for at least three years. If this trend continues we will be in a much better place in a few years." Ahh they really do brighten up the whole thing.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 30/03/2023 17:42:09
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The way Colm has gone about dropping certain lads who have given so much commitment over the last 5/6 months is pathetic and poor especially from a man of Colms background. He should no better that there is a time and a place to tell lads they are gone from the panel. It should never be a quick chat after a game. Lads need to be told why they are being dropped, how can they improve, what do they need to do etc. and guide them in the right direction otherwise you're just going to **** lads off and not see them back. 8/9 lads I believe will be dropped from the panel in the coming days with some being told already, i haven't heard all 9 names just a few as of now.
redracoon (Meath) - Posts: 57 - 30/03/2023 20:31:54
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Replying To MillerX: "To me the best piece of news this year is that a very good minor team of three years ago have continued that form at u20 unlike in the past 20 + years where decent minor teams have been dreadful at u21 and u20.
Now it is possible that there is less likelihood of a drop off in form at the younger ages but it is still refreshing that their form held for at least three years. If this trend continues we will be in a much better place in a few years." Its a 50/50 mix of minor 2020 and minor 2021
Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1494 - 30/03/2023 21:52:52
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "Hearing there's a truth in the story of how O Rourke has handled dropping players from the panel. Again no one will really know what happened except COR and the players themselves.
Look I'm not surprised players are being dropped, some haven't cut it at the level required so far and its very common that inter county teams make changes to the panel between league and championship.
The manner in which he has supposedly dropped them is unacceptable and does leave a lot to be desired in terms of player management. If COR is expecting players to buy in to what he is about he needs to be able to deal with dropping players in a more sensitive manner, some of these lads have given 6 months of their time to Meath so far this year so I would expect him to have a coffee with them, explain why he is dropping them, encourage them to go back to the club and prove him wrong." Ah will ya give over, bring lads for coffee to drop them ? Maybe he should drop them in the form of a gentle lullaby to ease it even further for them. If players are gonna see what way they are dropped as a deciding factor on whether they are gonna commit or not, then I wouldn't want them near the panel anyway, they'd already be very fragile. These are grown men, they are to be commended for their commitment and that should never be ignored, but they also have to think of the jersey that's on their back and respect that too..... I know one of the lads that was dropped the other day looked like he couldn't care less whether he played for meath or not this year, and he'd be a guaranteed starter with the right attitude. Does he need to be let down gently? I'm not a big orourke fan, but players getting a total free ride throughout this debacle of a season to date.
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 31/03/2023 08:18:05
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Jordan Morris dropped?
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2837 - 31/03/2023 12:51:11
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Replying To Analyst: "Its a 50/50 mix of minor 2020 and minor 2021" I know that there is a blend of the team the won Leinster but lost the s/f to Derry and the team that beat Tyrone in the All Ireland final. It is natural that some of the younger crop will make the cut after two years. Still we have to be very grateful that their form appears to have remained unlike previously where good minor teams showed an alarming drop in form when it came to the u21/20 grades.
The thing is to establish why this is the case?
My guess is that the minor management teams have stayed involved with the panels in the interim, and many of the players are also involved in college's football and therefore continue to play at a high standard. The problem I think is that when many very good players finish with college football they then revert to their clubs where the standards vary hugely across three grades and with the best will in the world coaching and preparation may not be as good.
Last year's introduction of the regional competition if properly organised should form an outlet for advanced development of the players referred to above. But alas the County Board seen this competition as something to got over as quickly as possible and in virtually the middle of winter. Initially the proposers of divisional/regional teams intended that those teams would compete in the Senior Championship where the better players would be exposed to higher standards and possibly also improve the standard of the Senior Championship as well. There could have been several advantages from this proposal. More players exposed to a higher standard of football, Intermediate and Junior players playing Senior football would in turn bring up the standards in their own clubs, more players 'selling their potential' to the country management team and the successful Intermediate champions would most likely contain Divisional players who had already been exposed to Senior football and would most likely be better prepared for the top grade.
I know that this is unlikely to come about mainly because we are afraid of change and this would without doubt bring about major change.
On a parting note Kerry have a very similar system, it apparently works for them.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 31/03/2023 20:36:28
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Replying To MillerX: "I know that there is a blend of the team the won Leinster but lost the s/f to Derry and the team that beat Tyrone in the All Ireland final. It is natural that some of the younger crop will make the cut after two years. Still we have to be very grateful that their form appears to have remained unlike previously where good minor teams showed an alarming drop in form when it came to the u21/20 grades.
The thing is to establish why this is the case?
My guess is that the minor management teams have stayed involved with the panels in the interim, and many of the players are also involved in college's football and therefore continue to play at a high standard. The problem I think is that when many very good players finish with college football they then revert to their clubs where the standards vary hugely across three grades and with the best will in the world coaching and preparation may not be as good.
Last year's introduction of the regional competition if properly organised should form an outlet for advanced development of the players referred to above. But alas the County Board seen this competition as something to got over as quickly as possible and in virtually the middle of winter. Initially the proposers of divisional/regional teams intended that those teams would compete in the Senior Championship where the better players would be exposed to higher standards and possibly also improve the standard of the Senior Championship as well. There could have been several advantages from this proposal. More players exposed to a higher standard of football, Intermediate and Junior players playing Senior football would in turn bring up the standards in their own clubs, more players 'selling their potential' to the country management team and the successful Intermediate champions would most likely contain Divisional players who had already been exposed to Senior football and would most likely be better prepared for the top grade.
I know that this is unlikely to come about mainly because we are afraid of change and this would without doubt bring about major change.
On a parting note Kerry have a very similar system, it apparently works for them." 16 senior teams is absolutely ridiculous. Should be 10 max. We only have about 8 senior standard teams at a push. No competition in senior championship any more. Can ya imagine to outcry if you tried to regrade 6 teams to intermediate tho.
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 01/04/2023 08:36:40
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I hear Dan O'Neill and James O'Hair are also dropped.
latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 540 - 01/04/2023 14:45:44
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Replying To FoolsGold: "Jordan Morris dropped?" Yep. So I guess cavan will come looking,?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 01/04/2023 18:09:05
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Replying To southmeathgael: "16 senior teams is absolutely ridiculous. Should be 10 max. We only have about 8 senior standard teams at a push. No competition in senior championship any more. Can ya imagine to outcry if you tried to regrade 6 teams to intermediate tho." I didn't quantify the number of senior teams, I fully agree 10 max plus 6 divisional teams, even numbers to avoid byes. 12 Intermediate teams with the rest Junior preferably of two levels but three at most for first teams. Otherwise there would be more medals being given out in Pairc Tailtean than at a mission.
I know reform wouldn't happen overnight but we simply have to reform to remain relevant. Hopefully the penny will eventually drop. Loosing local championship matches by 10 and 12 points may eventually sink in.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 01/04/2023 19:42:36
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Replying To royaldunne: "Yep. So I guess cavan will come looking,?" He would not get on the Cavan Team lads.
thelutch (Meath) - Posts: 1073 - 01/04/2023 20:13:34
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Replying To thelutch: "He would not get on the Cavan Team lads." They approached him before . Maybe not now.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 02/04/2023 13:18:09
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On Morris; surely he'll be back in lads? Id be surprised, shocked even, if he wasnt released to build himself back again... then come back when the time comes. Surely that's the case here? He needs to find form.
Im honestly a bit lost over the whole thing now. I agree with Lutch btw on Cavan.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 02/04/2023 13:41:33
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Replying To Young_gael: "On Morris; surely he'll be back in lads? Id be surprised, shocked even, if he wasnt released to build himself back again... then come back when the time comes. Surely that's the case here? He needs to find form.
Im honestly a bit lost over the whole thing now. I agree with Lutch btw on Cavan." A lot of it is got to do with the attitude of the lad from what I heard.
Talented yes - but needs to rein in the ego a bit apparently.
One would assume the door is not fully closed on a return though...
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 4051 - 02/04/2023 19:48:04
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