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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To KillingFields: "Ah uefa can't be criticised here. It's fairly simple format and there isn't any other format bar straight knockout that would do things faster or better" The old 16 team format was better but there were still plenty of bad games. Straight knockout isn't always the cure people make it out to be. No safety net tends to make good teams more cautious. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4326 - 06/07/2024 21:05:39 2557290 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Ah uefa can't be criticised here. It's fairly simple format and there isn't any other format bar straight knockout that would do things faster or better" UEFA are the organisers and they can be criticised surely. They could increase the teams to 32 and that would sort it. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 772 - 06/07/2024 21:19:23 2557293 Link
Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "UEFA are the organisers and they can be criticised surely. They could increase the teams to 32 and that would sort it." It's about striking a balance between a vibrant tournament and just overloading it with average teams and countless games to the point where fans end up not even paying attention to half it. 16 was fine by me but arguably too limited. 24 teams is plenty, even 20 is enough imo. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 06/07/2024 21:42:42 2557299 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "The old 16 team format was better but there were still plenty of bad games. Straight knockout isn't always the cure people make it out to be. No safety net tends to make good teams more cautious." But with number of nations now in Europe you needed to expand beyond 16 I'm not advocating for straight knock out. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3624 - 06/07/2024 22:24:32 2557308 Link
Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "UEFA are the organisers and they can be criticised surely. They could increase the teams to 32 and that would sort it." Except that would totally dilute standards. It needed to expand beyond 16 with number of countries now in Europe and need to give others beyond the teams who always qualified a chance to play a big tournament but 31 would be far too many and make qualification worse KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3624 - 06/07/2024 22:26:22 2557309 Link
I think soccer has a similar problem - "park the bus", not different from the "blanket defence". I wish soccer was a "little" more open - averaging 5-6 scores per game rather than 2-3. There has been absorbing scoreless draws - but still. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2810 - 06/07/2024 22:32:04 2557311 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Except that would totally dilute standards. It needed to expand beyond 16 with number of countries now in Europe and need to give others beyond the teams who always qualified a chance to play a big tournament but 31 would be far too many and make qualification worse" It hardly matters really. it's only 8 teams more and what 12 matches.. And sure then we might get a chance to qualify again. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 772 - 06/07/2024 22:57:57 2557313 Link
16 teams was elite. Germany and England were in same group one year and both got eliminated. Practically zero jeopardy for big guns for groups. Then knockout has been mostly turgid. Off decent game and moments. Gaelic football has issues for sure and let's make it better but we need to keep some perspective. Kerry v Derry was awful but last weekend also had Galway Dublin, a game I enjoyed more than any Euros game so far. Maybe this 16 team tournament needs more time. We need to build up th one mix tier teams currently finishing 4th so we eventually have more teams competing. Who knows...look at Sligo recently. Imagine a few more years of upward trajectory and they could be competing for Connacht and quarter finals. shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 284 - 06/07/2024 23:08:43 2557315 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I don't really think it's a good idea to have qualifiers and a Tailteann Cup. Again it goes back to jeopardy, a team not winning the Tailteann is still going to have 1 of 7 places available in the Sam Maguire last 16 the following season." Is the glass half full or empty?! A team missing out on qualifying for the All-Ireland series in Year 1 aren't exactly in a position to be dismissive of winning the Tailteann to qualify in Year 2. Using championship or league ranking for balanced provincial draws, the Qualifier Round 1 should feature teams of a similar level. If a county has lost their first provincial game and their first qualifying round, if their third loss is in the Tailteann first round, a summer exit might be fair. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8161 - 07/07/2024 08:49:16 2557330 Link
Replying To omahant: "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8079 - 06/07/2024 08:36:2 I like that AIC seeding system (a lot) - but feel Whammo's Qualifier format is more straight forward (elegant even?): Rd 1 - 16 lowest ranked (now AIC) "non-Prov Finalists". Rd 2 - next 8 lowest "non-PChamps" +8 Rd 1 winners. Rd 3 / Rd of 16 - best 8 ranked +8 Rd 2 winners. QFs. SFs. F." Different opinions are fair enough. Clubs miss out on qualifying for the Champions League. If they win the Europa League, they are in the next edition of the Champions League. 16 counties and New York miss out on the All-Ireland series. The carrot of winning the Tailteann for qualification in the next year is a fair reward. The three qualifying rounds I listed were for the intention of balanced draws as much as possible. A winnable Qualifier Round 1 for all. The level gets tougher then over Q2 and Q3. It brings back a knockout element as well in parallel with the provincial championships. Provincial weekend 3, provincial weekend 5 and the weekend after provincial weekend 6 would suit the three qualifying rounds. The Tailteann Cup after two bites at All-Ireland qualification can arguably be straight knockout. Three strikes and you are out. No complaints. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8161 - 07/07/2024 08:59:16 2557331 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Different opinions are fair enough. Clubs miss out on qualifying for the Champions League. If they win the Europa League, they are in the next edition of the Champions League. 16 counties and New York miss out on the All-Ireland series. The carrot of winning the Tailteann for qualification in the next year is a fair reward. The three qualifying rounds I listed were for the intention of balanced draws as much as possible. A winnable Qualifier Round 1 for all. The level gets tougher then over Q2 and Q3. It brings back a knockout element as well in parallel with the provincial championships. Provincial weekend 3, provincial weekend 5 and the weekend after provincial weekend 6 would suit the three qualifying rounds. The Tailteann Cup after two bites at All-Ireland qualification can arguably be straight knockout. Three strikes and you are out. No complaints." Already 3 Qualification routes to the Sam- NFL, Provincials and last year's Tailteann . Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1795 - 07/07/2024 10:39:12 2557346 Link
Like it used to be in soccer the backpassing to the goalie is killing our game. Until that amongst many other things are rectified then it won't change. Guru coaches are turning our game into Australian rules football and a poor version of it at that. eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 194 - 07/07/2024 11:05:48 2557353 Link
A bad game or two and people throwing the toys out of the pram and looking for rule changes. It will end up completely ruining the sport. Some of the trial rules being brought in are laughable. The Euros have been poor but you don't hear football fans looking for change. I think Gaelic football has been poor due to the silly round robin system. Go back to the original way the qualifiers were done and stop messing with super 8s and groups were you can be atrocious and still make it through thebronze14 (Donegal) - Posts: 45 - 07/07/2024 11:07:09 2557354 Link
Replying To eslinchickenmaryland: "Like it used to be in soccer the backpassing to the goalie is killing our game. Until that amongst many other things are rectified then it won't change. Guru coaches are turning our game into Australian rules football and a poor version of it at that." No goalkeeper in Aus Ruies. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1795 - 07/07/2024 12:17:09 2557372 Link
Replying To thebronze14: "A bad game or two and people throwing the toys out of the pram and looking for rule changes. It will end up completely ruining the sport. Some of the trial rules being brought in are laughable. The Euros have been poor but you don't hear football fans looking for change. I think Gaelic football has been poor due to the silly round robin system. Go back to the original way the qualifiers were done and stop messing with super 8s and groups were you can be atrocious and still make it through" I can't recall 2022 being a great vintage year of wonderful entertaining football . Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1795 - 07/07/2024 12:19:01 2557373 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Already 3 Qualification routes to the Sam- NFL, Provincials and last year's Tailteann ." There is but should the league be linked to championship or at the very least possibly used for seeding provincial draws and used for balanced qualifying rounds? 12 of 16 All-Ireland teams have lost their previous match. Bring in qualifiers, at least 9 or 10 will have won their previous game. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8161 - 07/07/2024 13:23:16 2557384 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "But with number of nations now in Europe you needed to expand beyond 16 I'm not advocating for straight knock out." I'm more getting at the knockout round starting at the last 16 phase is worse than having 4 groups of 4. International football and the GAA (and intercontinental club football for that matter too) have some similar issues. The top teams don't play one another enough. The fields are getting split too wide and good teams are kept apart for too long. I get the point that the net has to be widened but I also think that it can't be denied that it's also causing a drop in excitement. I think also players being overwhelmed by games in an issue the codes have in common also. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4326 - 07/07/2024 14:57:56 2557397 Link
Previous European Championships with 16 were enjoyable. International players are being flogged. There have been a lot of poor quality games. Greed. UEFA cares about money! The top tier tournament has been watered down in quality. The World Cup is going to be a double European Championship. 48 teams. They have thought the better of groups of 3. They will go with 12 groups of 4. FIFA are adding a World Club Cup! UEFA are increasing the number of European club rounds. The Professional Footballers' Association is taking legal action over FIFA plans for the Club World Cup. The GPA are lobbying against expanding the intercounty championship season. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8161 - 07/07/2024 16:56:53 2557429 Link
Sporting organisation around the world are following this short term route to profit without caring about the long game. Fia adding too many grand prix raced Fifa and Uefa expansion of competition and games Most American sports have horrendous amount of games Result. More opportunities for seat sales, TV and advertising. Does any result in a better competition? Absolutely not. The rot sets in and fans seep away. Fifa World Cup expansion to 48. How many more games will that create? And how weak will some of those groups be if the top 12 are kept apart? So now the group stages lose their must see value. shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 284 - 07/07/2024 18:00:43 2557458 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Previous European Championships with 16 were enjoyable. International players are being flogged. There have been a lot of poor quality games. Greed. UEFA cares about money! The top tier tournament has been watered down in quality. The World Cup is going to be a double European Championship. 48 teams. They have thought the better of groups of 3. They will go with 12 groups of 4. FIFA are adding a World Club Cup! UEFA are increasing the number of European club rounds. The Professional Footballers' Association is taking legal action over FIFA plans for the Club World Cup. The GPA are lobbying against expanding the intercounty championship season." The 16 groups of 3 meant it still only toom 7 games to win it. One less group game but one extra knock out game. 12 groups of 4 means 8 games to win it now. Mad Rebel2020 (Cork) - Posts: 89 - 07/07/2024 18:55:00 2557484 Link