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Football Format Changes Discussion

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The provincial football championships get a lot of bad press. The hurling provincial championships don't. A tiered provincial football championship will set a standard. Basically tiered groups of 4.
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
ULSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if an Ulster county wins the Northeast Conference.
LEINSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
LEINSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if a Leinster county wins the Northeast Conference.
NORTHEAST CONFERENCE
1 Ulster and 3 Leinster. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
MUNSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Munster county wins the Southwest Conference.
CONNACHT CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Connacht county wins the Southwest Conference.
SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
2 Munster and 2 Connacht. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
*New York entering the Tailteann only with home advantage in the preliminary quarter-final, regardless of whether they play a group runner-up or third placed team.
ALL-IRELAND SERIES
The provincial championships can provide proportional representation in the All-Ireland series. That being the top third of counties from each province. That breakdown being 3 Ulster, 4 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht. The remaining 5 teams consisting of the Tailteann winner and 4 league qualifiers.
The provincial winners can be rewarded with the carrot of hosting an All-Ireland group. That being 3 home games for provincial winners and 1 each for all others.
TAILTEANN CUP
Remaining counties enter the Tailteann Cup. The 5 counties who missed out on the Tailteann preliminary quarter-finals in the previous year can be given a consolation award of an extra home game. The 3 highest ranked Tailteann counties from the league can also be awarded an extra home game. 2 counties with an extra home game per group.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 29/02/2024 06:56:13    2528872

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Replying To omahant: "Would this be a facelift: Provincial SFCs - The South American 'Copa America' and the North/Central American (CONCACAF) 'Gold Cup' international soccer tournaments regularly have 'guest' teams participating. The GAA could consider a similar approach to enhance the Provincial SFCs: - Each province's 'top 4' could initially play 'double chance' Preliminary SFs - with two winners advancing to their 'own/home' Provincial SFs and two losers switching as 'guests' to neighbouring Provincial QFs (one loser to a different neighbour). - All other 'non top 4' teams compete for two remaining 'own province' QF berths in their respective provinces. So, for example, the Leinster and Connacht Championships could be enhanced with the inclusion of an Ulster team in each; while Munster could potentially welcome one of Connacht's 'Big 3'. With only eight teams guesting, provincial integrity is somewhat maintained as all 25 others (including New York) exclusively contest their 'own' province only."
https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2528965
I'm not in favour of that. Counties seem clear that they only want to participate within their provincial championship. The Leinster championship had a qualifier group in the past, I think counties can come on board something like that.
A basic standard in provincial championships would enter counties outside Provincial Round 2 into a lower tier to earn their way.
That would be 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht entering a National Conference. The winner then being promoted to their provincial championship for the following year.
The provincial championships would be competed by 8 Ulster, 8 Leinster, 4 Munster and 4 Connacht. As the Ulster and Leinster championships would be twice as big, semi-finalists from those provinces should qualify for the All-Ireland series. The carrot for provincial winners being 3 home games in the group stage, hosting an All-Ireland group.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 01:04:49    2529004

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Somebody is winding me up.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 01/03/2024 02:04:07    2529005

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The provincial football championships get a lot of bad press. The hurling provincial championships don't. A tiered provincial football championship will set a standard. Basically tiered groups of 4.
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
ULSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if an Ulster county wins the Northeast Conference.
LEINSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
LEINSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if a Leinster county wins the Northeast Conference.
NORTHEAST CONFERENCE
1 Ulster and 3 Leinster. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
MUNSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Munster county wins the Southwest Conference.
CONNACHT CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Connacht county wins the Southwest Conference.
SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
2 Munster and 2 Connacht. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
*New York entering the Tailteann only with home advantage in the preliminary quarter-final, regardless of whether they play a group runner-up or third placed team.
ALL-IRELAND SERIES
The provincial championships can provide proportional representation in the All-Ireland series. That being the top third of counties from each province. That breakdown being 3 Ulster, 4 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht. The remaining 5 teams consisting of the Tailteann winner and 4 league qualifiers.
The provincial winners can be rewarded with the carrot of hosting an All-Ireland group. That being 3 home games for provincial winners and 1 each for all others.
TAILTEANN CUP
Remaining counties enter the Tailteann Cup. The 5 counties who missed out on the Tailteann preliminary quarter-finals in the previous year can be given a consolation award of an extra home game. The 3 highest ranked Tailteann counties from the league can also be awarded an extra home game. 2 counties with an extra home game per group."
Are you for real. Go do some volunteering and spend your time usefully,even if it is in the North East Concerence.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 151 - 01/03/2024 03:41:26    2529006

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Replying To omahant: "Would this be a facelift: Provincial SFCs - The South American 'Copa America' and the North/Central American (CONCACAF) 'Gold Cup' international soccer tournaments regularly have 'guest' teams participating. The GAA could consider a similar approach to enhance the Provincial SFCs: - Each province's 'top 4' could initially play 'double chance' Preliminary SFs - with two winners advancing to their 'own/home' Provincial SFs and two losers switching as 'guests' to neighbouring Provincial QFs (one loser to a different neighbour). - All other 'non top 4' teams compete for two remaining 'own province' QF berths in their respective provinces. So, for example, the Leinster and Connacht Championships could be enhanced with the inclusion of an Ulster team in each; while Munster could potentially welcome one of Connacht's 'Big 3'. With only eight teams guesting, provincial integrity is somewhat maintained as all 25 others (including New York) exclusively contest their 'own' province only."
https://hoganstand.com/Forum/FindPost?MessageID=2528965
I'm not in favour of that. Counties seem clear that they only want to participate within their provincial championship. The Leinster championship had a qualifier group in the past, I think counties can come on board something like that.
A basic standard in provincial championships would enter counties outside Provincial Round 2 into a lower tier to earn their way.
That would be 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht entering a National Conference. The winner then being promoted to their provincial championship for the following year.
The provincial championships would be competed by 8 Ulster, 8 Leinster, 4 Munster and 4 Connacht. As the Ulster and Leinster championships would be twice as big, semi-finalists from those provinces should qualify for the All-Ireland series. The carrot for provincial winners being 3 home games in the group stage, hosting an All-Ireland group."
You can't not let a county compete in their own provincial championship. Who do propose to exclude from each?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12425 - 01/03/2024 09:24:02    2529017

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The provincial football championships get a lot of bad press. The hurling provincial championships don't. A tiered provincial football championship will set a standard. Basically tiered groups of 4.
ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
ULSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if an Ulster county wins the Northeast Conference.
LEINSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated.
LEINSTER CONFERENCE
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted. 4th place relegated if a Leinster county wins the Northeast Conference.
NORTHEAST CONFERENCE
1 Ulster and 3 Leinster. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
MUNSTER CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Munster county wins the Southwest Conference.
CONNACHT CHAMPIONSHIP
1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. 4th place relegated if a Connacht county wins the Southwest Conference.
SOUTHWEST CONFERENCE
2 Munster and 2 Connacht. 1 group of 4. Top 2 into final. Winner promoted to their provincial championship.
*New York entering the Tailteann only with home advantage in the preliminary quarter-final, regardless of whether they play a group runner-up or third placed team.
ALL-IRELAND SERIES
The provincial championships can provide proportional representation in the All-Ireland series. That being the top third of counties from each province. That breakdown being 3 Ulster, 4 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht. The remaining 5 teams consisting of the Tailteann winner and 4 league qualifiers.
The provincial winners can be rewarded with the carrot of hosting an All-Ireland group. That being 3 home games for provincial winners and 1 each for all others.
TAILTEANN CUP
Remaining counties enter the Tailteann Cup. The 5 counties who missed out on the Tailteann preliminary quarter-finals in the previous year can be given a consolation award of an extra home game. The 3 highest ranked Tailteann counties from the league can also be awarded an extra home game. 2 counties with an extra home game per group."
u REALLY need to get a past time son, u have to much time on your hands

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2854 - 01/03/2024 09:41:49    2529022

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Are you for real. Go do some volunteering and spend your time usefully,even if it is in the North East Concerence."
If Antrim, Carlow, Longford, Wexford, Tipperary, Waterford, Leitrim and London entered a Tier 2 Provincial Qualifier Championship, it would set standard for qualifying for the provincial championships.
The Ulster semi-finalists from 8, Leinster semi-finalists from 8, Munster finalists from 4 and Connacht finalists from 4 could qualify for the All-Ireland series. The remaining 4 places taken by the Tailteann winner and 3 league qualifiers.
New York can enter the Tailteann Cup only, with home advantage for their preliminary quarter-final.
-1. League finals.
0. Weekend off.
1. Leinster and Ulster quarter-finals. Tier 2 Qualifier quarter-finals.
2. Connacht and Munster semi-finals. Tier 2 Qualifier semi-finals.
3. Leinster and Ulster semi-finals.
4. Connacht and Munster finals. Tier 2 Qualifier final.
5. Leinster and Ulster finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 10:03:02    2529025

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You can't not let a county compete in their own provincial championship. Who do propose to exclude from each?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 01/03/2024 09:24:02

Taking the current league standings for example; Antrim, Carlow, Longford, Wexford, Tipperary, Waterford, Leitrim and London entering a tier 2 provincial qualifier level. The winner earning a place in their provincial championship in the following year.
Ulster and Leinster can be contested by their top 8 counties. Munster and Connacht by their top 4 counties.
Something similar already happens in hurling. Carlow won the McDonagh last year and will be in the Leinster hurling championship this year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 10:13:09    2529028

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Replying To legendzxix:  "You can't not let a county compete in their own provincial championship. Who do propose to exclude from each?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11215 - 01/03/2024 09:24:02

Taking the current league standings for example; Antrim, Carlow, Longford, Wexford, Tipperary, Waterford, Leitrim and London entering a tier 2 provincial qualifier level. The winner earning a place in their provincial championship in the following year.
Ulster and Leinster can be contested by their top 8 counties. Munster and Connacht by their top 4 counties.
Something similar already happens in hurling. Carlow won the McDonagh last year and will be in the Leinster hurling championship this year."
Championship is completely different to League.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12425 - 01/03/2024 11:00:00    2529032

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Scrap the pre season comps and the provincials. Have one competition running from Feb until July/August. Every game matters and it would generate huge interest and would be a marketing dream. They could have seeds and playoffs and while we sneer at the Americans for many things they know how to market their sports.

The league is great but some teams going harder than others. Teams wanting to avoid finals and just get safe for the main part. I love the league but it's also semi pointless at this stage.

Obviously there would have to be 3 tiers to the above format but that's the way it should be, just like at club level. And obviously the club season has to be looked after but the league and championship is dead as a format currently.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 01/03/2024 11:08:43    2529034

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Scrap the pre season comps and the provincials. Have one competition running from Feb until July/August. Every game matters and it would generate huge interest and would be a marketing dream. They could have seeds and playoffs and while we sneer at the Americans for many things they know how to market their sports.

The league is great but some teams going harder than others. Teams wanting to avoid finals and just get safe for the main part. I love the league but it's also semi pointless at this stage.

Obviously there would have to be 3 tiers to the above format but that's the way it should be, just like at club level. And obviously the club season has to be looked after but the league and championship is dead as a format currently."
I agree about dropping pre season competitions but disagree about provincial competitions. Keep them. No replays. And play then through the year. Takes 3/4 weeks max. When a county is knocked out they could play club games when later rounds are on

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 01/03/2024 11:36:17    2529039

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Replying To KillingFields:  "I agree about dropping pre season competitions but disagree about provincial competitions. Keep them. No replays. And play then through the year. Takes 3/4 weeks max. When a county is knocked out they could play club games when later rounds are on"
Provincials are absolutely pointless. Munster is dead. Leinster is dead. Connacht has 3 decent teams but the rest should be in a different tier also. Ulster only competitive province. So please tell me what is the point in provincial championships when we know the winners year on year in advance?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 01/03/2024 11:51:25    2529044

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Replying To KillingFields:  "I agree about dropping pre season competitions but disagree about provincial competitions. Keep them. No replays. And play then through the year. Takes 3/4 weeks max. When a county is knocked out they could play club games when later rounds are on"
Counties play Club League games now to end June/July.
Championships August to October.
Certainty of fixtures for Club Players, County players have no County team complications when they play in their Club Championships etc.

System will in time evolve to 3 tiers, possibly 12,10,10 with pre season small groups League followed by Provincial Championships.
Then the AI with promotion relegation as in Club Championships in most Counties.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1496 - 01/03/2024 11:57:57    2529045

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Provincials are absolutely pointless. Munster is dead. Leinster is dead. Connacht has 3 decent teams but the rest should be in a different tier also. Ulster only competitive province. So please tell me what is the point in provincial championships when we know the winners year on year in advance?"
Would an open draw championship be a good idea ?. No provincial championships, as you say Leinster and Munster are so predictable

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1764 - 01/03/2024 12:52:04    2529055

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Would an open draw championship be a good idea ?. No provincial championships, as you say Leinster and Munster are so predictable"
Have a league style seeded championship which then progresses to semi finals seeded. Or something along those lines. Relegation and promotion from each tier every year.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 01/03/2024 13:18:05    2529061

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Provincials are absolutely pointless. Munster is dead. Leinster is dead. Connacht has 3 decent teams but the rest should be in a different tier also. Ulster only competitive province. So please tell me what is the point in provincial championships when we know the winners year on year in advance?"
Why remove them when for many teams it gives them something to aim for and keeps local rivalries which gaa puts such emphasis on promoting.
And if you have a tiwred competition it allows teams in lower tiers more shots against top teams.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 01/03/2024 13:33:12    2529062

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Would an open draw championship be a good idea ?. No provincial championships, as you say Leinster and Munster are so predictable"
What benefit is there in totally removing provincial competitions?
Open draw championship combined with what?
I think you hace to look to whole year structure and change how league is played off in full before championship starts.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 01/03/2024 14:08:22    2529069

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Why remove them when for many teams it gives them something to aim for and keeps local rivalries which gaa puts such emphasis on promoting.
And if you have a tiwred competition it allows teams in lower tiers more shots against top teams."
A shot against the top teams? Have you been watching the past few years? Teams are getting pasted year on year, zero chance of progression. Junior club teams who play Division 4 don't get shots at Div 1 teams for a reason. Tell me about these local rivalries in Leinster and Munster? Kerry and Dublin have nothing to do except try and peak for the latter stages of Championship because their provinces are dead. There are no rivalries. Only for Roscommon Connacht would be a 2 team champ for years to come as well.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 01/03/2024 14:47:34    2529077

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Counties play Club League games now to end June/July.
Championships August to October.
Certainty of fixtures for Club Players, County players have no County team complications when they play in their Club Championships etc.

System will in time evolve to 3 tiers, possibly 12,10,10 with pre season small groups League followed by Provincial Championships.
Then the AI with promotion relegation as in Club Championships in most Counties."
I think the GAA will want to retain quarter-finals in Croke Park. With that you are looking at the current 16-16 split or a 16-8-8 split.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 14:48:00    2529078

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Championship is completely different to League.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11218 - 01/03/2024 11:00:00
All county championships have some standard for senior status. Why are Laois, Offaly and Westmeath not competing in the Leinster hurling championship this year?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 14:52:32    2529079

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