National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Why remove them when for many teams it gives them something to aim for and keeps local rivalries which gaa puts such emphasis on promoting.
And if you have a tiwred competition it allows teams in lower tiers more shots against top teams."
Leinster in it's current state is one province that would suit a tiered championship. Top 6 in tier 1, with the previous year's finalists receiving a bye to the semi-finals. The remaining 5 in a tier 2. Tier 2 winner promoted. Tier 1 quarter-finalists contesting a relegation final.
Connacht and Munster would also suit a tiered championship but they would need a shared tier 2 with the way the numbers add up.
Ulster doesn't need a tiered structure but if they wanted to set some level, the lowest county could contest with the Leinster tier 2.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 01/03/2024 15:01:15    2529081

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Scrap the pre season comps and the provincials. Have one competition running from Feb until July/August. Every game matters and it would generate huge interest and would be a marketing dream. They could have seeds and playoffs and while we sneer at the Americans for many things they know how to market their sports.

The league is great but some teams going harder than others. Teams wanting to avoid finals and just get safe for the main part. I love the league but it's also semi pointless at this stage.

Obviously there would have to be 3 tiers to the above format but that's the way it should be, just like at club level. And obviously the club season has to be looked after but the league and championship is dead as a format currently."
Does this suit you?

My "3-in-1", incorporating Provs, League & AIC:

- Tier 1 (top 16 teams); Tier 2 (lower 16)

- Each team plays 12 of 15 opponents (15, too long), including 2 initial games (Prov 1st Rd, QFs or inter-provincial for the rest).

- For 3 teams to be avoided, draw 4-team groups (avoid own group, play everyone else).

- To include Provincial and initial 2 inter-provincial pairings in those 'crossover' 12 games, split the SF teams from the same province to separate groups and add all QF & 1st Rd losers (and inter-prov teams) to groups different from teams played.

- Top 8 of 16 from 12 games to the Sam Playoffs, with the top 4 paired up (2 winners to SFs, 2 losers to QFs) and second 4 straight KO (2 winners to QFs).

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- Tier 2 top 8 join tier 1 bottom 8 in 16-team Playoffs

- 8 teams, upper 4 from each tier, pair up (4 winners to QFs, 4 others to Prelim QF Rd) with 8 others straight KO (4 winners to Prelim QF Rd).

- Tier 2 QF 8 play in Tier 1 League the following year.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 01/03/2024 16:01:57    2529094

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Championship is completely different to League.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11218 - 01/03/2024 11:00:00
All county championships have some standard for senior status. Why are Laois, Offaly and Westmeath not competing in the Leinster hurling championship this year?"
They should be

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12425 - 01/03/2024 17:07:40    2529105

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Replying To Viking66:  "They should be"
In the years before the McDonagh Cup, there was a qualifier group. A fair development at the time. The provincial football championships need a bar for qualification. 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht in an 8 team Tier 2 below the provincial championship is a fair line.
The Tier 2 winner should be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The Ulster semi-finalists, Leinster semi-finalists, Munster finalists and Connacht finalists could also be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The remaining places determined by the next year's league position.
The Ulster semi-finalists, Leinster semi-finalists, Munster finalists and Connacht finalists could also qualify for the All-Ireland series. The remaining 4 places going to the Tailteann winner and 3 league qualifiers.
The provincial championships would be completed in 5 weeks, allowing for a week off after the league finals. The provincial draws can take place on the Monday morning after the league finals, with two weeks for everyone to get ready with the logistics etc..

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 02/03/2024 09:27:49    2529175

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Replying To legendzxix:  "In the years before the McDonagh Cup, there was a qualifier group. A fair development at the time. The provincial football championships need a bar for qualification. 1 Ulster, 3 Leinster, 2 Munster and 2 Connacht in an 8 team Tier 2 below the provincial championship is a fair line.
The Tier 2 winner should be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The Ulster semi-finalists, Leinster semi-finalists, Munster finalists and Connacht finalists could also be guaranteed a place in their provincial championship in the following year. The remaining places determined by the next year's league position.
The Ulster semi-finalists, Leinster semi-finalists, Munster finalists and Connacht finalists could also qualify for the All-Ireland series. The remaining 4 places going to the Tailteann winner and 3 league qualifiers.
The provincial championships would be completed in 5 weeks, allowing for a week off after the league finals. The provincial draws can take place on the Monday morning after the league finals, with two weeks for everyone to get ready with the logistics etc.."
Why does any format you suggest play the league in its entirety then the provincial championships in their entirity before playing any all ireland championship...
Oh wait ypu only want a format thar suits your own county.
You need to look at the overall picture and that current system needs to be overhauled completely so something totally different is in place

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 02/03/2024 10:28:01    2529182

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Why do so many people have a scenario including the provincial championships. Absolutely dead in the water lads. Baffling stuff.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 02/03/2024 13:05:21    2529208

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Why do so many people have a scenario including the provincial championships. Absolutely dead in the water lads. Baffling stuff."
Because the provincial championships are unlikely to be scrapped.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 02/03/2024 17:18:07    2529249

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Why does any format you suggest play the league in its entirety then the provincial championships in their entirity before playing any all ireland championship...
Oh wait ypu only want a format thar suits your own county.
You need to look at the overall picture and that current system needs to be overhauled completely so something totally different is in place"
The league is a highly praised format and bringing in good crowds. It is hard to see the GAA tampering with that. The provincial championships then are unlikely to be brought forward to earlier in the year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 02/03/2024 17:19:47    2529250

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Because the provincial championships are unlikely to be scrapped."
Some people want to keep them. People on here also. For historic reasons and tradition. It's nonsense if they are not fit for purpose.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 02/03/2024 18:35:14    2529258

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Some people want to keep them. People on here also. For historic reasons and tradition. It's nonsense if they are not fit for purpose."
The provincial championships should stand on their own two feet without the link to the All-Ireland. Seems unlikely to gain support at Congress though.
The next nearest step would be provincial winners only qualifying through the provinces. That might stand a better chance of being agreed.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 02/03/2024 19:04:42    2529259

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Why do so many people have a scenario including the provincial championships. Absolutely dead in the water lads. Baffling stuff."
Not at all. For even small counties there is some chance of winning and you can keep them in any change as if you remove replays they take max 4 weekends to run off

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 02/03/2024 20:07:29    2529271

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Not at all. For even small counties there is some chance of winning and you can keep them in any change as if you remove replays they take max 4 weekends to run off"
Winning what? A single game before they move on to be beaten anyway. There is a reason there are divisions and levels at club level. Why should county be different?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 02/03/2024 20:40:02    2529279

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Because the provincial championships are unlikely to be scrapped."
I would get rid of the league and have provincials as your pre season tournament. Counties only concern with the league is to get promoted or avoid relegation as it has an impact on the championship with tailteann cup or two create momentum going into championship. Id have provincials played over 4 or 5 weeks in Feb/March and then 4 groups of 8. Can seed off this year's league positions. Top 4 each group goes through to round of 16 and play other group 1st Group A play 4th Group B,1st Group C play 4th Group D etc. The bottom 4 each group go to Tailteann Cup and similar pairings. Each team gets least 8 games. Winner of Tailteann wins trip to New York to play them.


Id have similar for hurling but 2 groups of 8 in the top tier. Top 4 in each to the quarter final bottom 4 in a joe mcdonagh quarter final.

camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 47 - 02/03/2024 20:59:41    2529289

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The provincial championships should stand on their own two feet without the link to the All-Ireland. Seems unlikely to gain support at Congress though.
The next nearest step would be provincial winners only qualifying through the provinces. That might stand a better chance of being agreed."
What's wrong with my "3-in-1" - Prov ties counting towards league pts, and playing the league as a qualifier to AIC KO?

Even if the Ulster Championship is valued and the others are not, it doesn't matter - all are league ties prior to the League Finals & AIC KO.

With Prov 1st Rd & QFs played in Feb, SFs & Finals could be held over to May with other league-only ties played in between.

Maybe there's a compromise there - two early Prov rds in lieu of pre-season, but with the last two Prov rds played in good weather.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 02/03/2024 21:50:02    2529310

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Replying To omahant:  "What's wrong with my "3-in-1" - Prov ties counting towards league pts, and playing the league as a qualifier to AIC KO?

Even if the Ulster Championship is valued and the others are not, it doesn't matter - all are league ties prior to the League Finals & AIC KO.

With Prov 1st Rd & QFs played in Feb, SFs & Finals could be held over to May with other league-only ties played in between.

Maybe there's a compromise there - two early Prov rds in lieu of pre-season, but with the last two Prov rds played in good weather."
I'm not in favour provincial championship games counting as league points. During Covid, some championship games doubled up as a league final if two teams happened to meet. It's hard to break from the tradition that you have your league phase, provincial phase and then All-Ireland or Tailteann.
They could try putting the provincial championships before league if the winds of change are in favour but I think they'll play out one competition before the other starts. There was at least one year where the Hurling League was intertwined with the Hurling Championship. The feedback was very negative and they reverted back to the traditional completing the league in the next year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 03/03/2024 07:31:46    2529347

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Replying To camánouttathat:  "I would get rid of the league and have provincials as your pre season tournament. Counties only concern with the league is to get promoted or avoid relegation as it has an impact on the championship with tailteann cup or two create momentum going into championship. Id have provincials played over 4 or 5 weeks in Feb/March and then 4 groups of 8. Can seed off this year's league positions. Top 4 each group goes through to round of 16 and play other group 1st Group A play 4th Group B,1st Group C play 4th Group D etc. The bottom 4 each group go to Tailteann Cup and similar pairings. Each team gets least 8 games. Winner of Tailteann wins trip to New York to play them.


Id have similar for hurling but 2 groups of 8 in the top tier. Top 4 in each to the quarter final bottom 4 in a joe mcdonagh quarter final."
dont put ptovincials as pre season.
Just play friendlies for pre season. No need for a comperirion in pre season. Play provincials in between rounds of the league in your proposal.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 03/03/2024 11:55:27    2529395

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One very simple change start leagues 2nd week feb university competition in jan put finals back to second week aug most if not all club championship don't start until. Aug anyway and by then only 2 counties effected , makes no sense that majority of matches at county level are played by first week April it needs to change big tome no doubt they will set up a community to look at it but in reality it will do nothing only way it works push start league back 2 weeks championship same play finals no earlier than mid aug , it's madness play finals in July in reality majority of counties finished by early June In hurling after 6 weeks 2 of prib top 8 teams in Ireland be finished for another year they be done by mid to late may how any sane organisation can think this makes sense

Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 864 - 03/03/2024 12:39:04    2529406

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If the league and provincial championships were run in parallel, they could be run as follows:
League Round 1
League Round 2
Provincial First Round

League Round 3
League Round 4
Provincial Quarter-finals

League Round 5
League Round 6
Provincial Semi-finals

League Round 7
League Finals

Provincial Finals
The above takes 16 weeks. Currently the league takes 10 weeks (including rest weekends) and the provincial championships take 6 weeks. Same timescale.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 03/03/2024 16:46:38    2529457

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In this year's Rugby Six Nations, Scotland celebrated with a trophy for winning the 4-in-a-row Calcutta Cup. This result also counts towards the Triple Crown as well as awarding points towards the overall Championship, effectively "tripling up" the result towards all three competitions. Everyone takes this in stride. In two weeks time, the finale of Ireland v Scotland is a winner-takes-all Triple Crown, with Ireland also looking for the Grand Slam and Scotland seeking the Championship - it's all very interesting with the various goals intertwined. While not part of GAA tradition, games counting towards different competitions could be equally successful.

If Provincial Championship matches could equally count towards the League on route to the AIC KO, the former would not lose any appeal, but yet, the League's importance would be enhanced and the total game count would be reduced. It's a win-win all around.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 03/03/2024 17:19:27    2529469

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Replying To omahant:  "In this year's Rugby Six Nations, Scotland celebrated with a trophy for winning the 4-in-a-row Calcutta Cup. This result also counts towards the Triple Crown as well as awarding points towards the overall Championship, effectively "tripling up" the result towards all three competitions. Everyone takes this in stride. In two weeks time, the finale of Ireland v Scotland is a winner-takes-all Triple Crown, with Ireland also looking for the Grand Slam and Scotland seeking the Championship - it's all very interesting with the various goals intertwined. While not part of GAA tradition, games counting towards different competitions could be equally successful.

If Provincial Championship matches could equally count towards the League on route to the AIC KO, the former would not lose any appeal, but yet, the League's importance would be enhanced and the total game count would be reduced. It's a win-win all around."
It isnt really a tripling up of competitions. The calcutta cup is simply for winning rhe game between england and scotland.

I dont think gaa need to combine league with provincial championships.
Just create more games in all ireland series. Play league through the year not between february and april.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 03/03/2024 18:38:13    2529509

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