National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It isnt really a tripling up of competitions. The calcutta cup is simply for winning rhe game between england and scotland.

I dont think gaa need to combine league with provincial championships.
Just create more games in all ireland series. Play league through the year not between february and april."
So you want to keep the league, a secondary competition to run throughout the year? And you also want to keep the provincial championships? Do you follow GAA at all? Because if you did you wouldn't be proposing things so casually.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 03/03/2024 18:50:34    2529512

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Replying To omahant:  "In this year's Rugby Six Nations, Scotland celebrated with a trophy for winning the 4-in-a-row Calcutta Cup. This result also counts towards the Triple Crown as well as awarding points towards the overall Championship, effectively "tripling up" the result towards all three competitions. Everyone takes this in stride. In two weeks time, the finale of Ireland v Scotland is a winner-takes-all Triple Crown, with Ireland also looking for the Grand Slam and Scotland seeking the Championship - it's all very interesting with the various goals intertwined. While not part of GAA tradition, games counting towards different competitions could be equally successful.

If Provincial Championship matches could equally count towards the League on route to the AIC KO, the former would not lose any appeal, but yet, the League's importance would be enhanced and the total game count would be reduced. It's a win-win all around."
Hope you more up to date on your GAA than you are on Rugby.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 151 - 03/03/2024 19:01:41    2529516

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "So you want to keep the league, a secondary competition to run throughout the year? And you also want to keep the provincial championships? Do you follow GAA at all? Because if you did you wouldn't be proposing things so casually."
As usual you dont counter the points with a backed up point you just insult the person. You do it to everyone!
The gaa needs to change how it sells itself. How it structures itself
This would do that

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 03/03/2024 20:02:45    2529541

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Hope you more up to date on your GAA than you are on Rugby."
He isnt

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 03/03/2024 20:03:06    2529542

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Replying To KillingFields:  "As usual you dont counter the points with a backed up point you just insult the person. You do it to everyone!
The gaa needs to change how it sells itself. How it structures itself
This would do that"
I am calling your idea ridiculous. The league is a secondary competition as it stands used as a warm up for serious contenders. And you want to prolong it throughout the season. Ridiculous. I already gave my proposal ages back in this thread as you already know. So why would i post something else.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 03/03/2024 20:31:33    2529555

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Not at all. For even small counties there is some chance of winning and you can keep them in any change as if you remove replays they take max 4 weekends to run off"
I actually think 4 weeks is quite a lot for provincials given how tight the calendar is.

Really the format should be 1 competition.

Divisions of 12, 10, 10. Play each team in your division once.

I'd have semifinals and 2 up and 2 down.

There's too many nothing games in the current format and it takes up too much time.

A 12 team championship could be played comfortably over a 22 week window and give the competition time to breathe.

It wouldn't actually be less top quality football either it'd just be cutting out the faffing about.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4256 - 03/03/2024 20:51:04    2529564

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I am calling your idea ridiculous. The league is a secondary competition as it stands used as a warm up for serious contenders. And you want to prolong it throughout the season. Ridiculous. I already gave my proposal ages back in this thread as you already know. So why would i post something else."
The league is treated as second rate because of its timing and how some people always dismiss it. Change timing of it and you can change perceptions.
Its ridiculous that most counties play overwhelming majority of their games each year in february and march and not summer months and clubs still in lot of counties arent playing championship until late in the year.
This changes that.
It can change hoe teams approach the league as well. If played through the year.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 03/03/2024 22:08:07    2529589

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Replying To KillingFields:  "The league is treated as second rate because of its timing and how some people always dismiss it. Change timing of it and you can change perceptions.
Its ridiculous that most counties play overwhelming majority of their games each year in february and march and not summer months and clubs still in lot of counties arent playing championship until late in the year.
This changes that.
It can change hoe teams approach the league as well. If played through the year."
Did you even read my post on what I wanted?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 03/03/2024 22:50:50    2529595

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Did you even read my post on what I wanted?"
I did. And?
You ignore everyone else and are never wrong anyway so whats the point of trying to debate with you?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3532 - 04/03/2024 08:46:20    2529615

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Interesting point raised on the football pod last week by Paddy, they were on about rule changes, he said change to 13 a side and interestingly enough JOD was in full agreeance, what do ye think? I actually thought he was joking at the start but made a few good points for it, I had never heard that argument raised before

TobeaRossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 143 - 04/03/2024 09:19:51    2529619

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Replying To KillingFields:  "I did. And?
You ignore everyone else and are never wrong anyway so whats the point of trying to debate with you?"
You asked me did I have an alternative, i was reminding you what i posted. Your proposal would makes no sense to inter county players or managers . And that's before we talk about club.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7913 - 04/03/2024 10:58:19    2529648

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Replying To omahant:  "In this year's Rugby Six Nations, Scotland celebrated with a trophy for winning the 4-in-a-row Calcutta Cup. This result also counts towards the Triple Crown as well as awarding points towards the overall Championship, effectively "tripling up" the result towards all three competitions. Everyone takes this in stride. In two weeks time, the finale of Ireland v Scotland is a winner-takes-all Triple Crown, with Ireland also looking for the Grand Slam and Scotland seeking the Championship - it's all very interesting with the various goals intertwined. While not part of GAA tradition, games counting towards different competitions could be equally successful.

If Provincial Championship matches could equally count towards the League on route to the AIC KO, the former would not lose any appeal, but yet, the League's importance would be enhanced and the total game count would be reduced. It's a win-win all around."
In 2023, the US NBA introduced the "NBA Cup" - a newly-created in-season tournament, with a group phase followed by KO QFs, SFs & Final. While it remains to be seen if it will catch on, all group, QF & SF games 'doubled up' as regular season results as well (Final was stand alone).

Such layering of competitions encompasses opposing stakeholder views - those that value subsidiary tournaments and those that do not (e.g. status of the Ulster Championship, compared to those in Munster and Leinster).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 04/03/2024 17:24:36    2529789

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I actually think 4 weeks is quite a lot for provincials given how tight the calendar is.

Really the format should be 1 competition.

Divisions of 12, 10, 10. Play each team in your division once.

I'd have semifinals and 2 up and 2 down.

There's too many nothing games in the current format and it takes up too much time.

A 12 team championship could be played comfortably over a 22 week window and give the competition time to breathe.

It wouldn't actually be less top quality football either it'd just be cutting out the faffing about."
You're removing All-Ireland quarter-finals with that 12-10-10. The current 4 groups of 4 worked ok last year. Group winners had a weekend off before the quarter-finals. The preliminary quarter-final, while a surprise inclusion in the new format, worked out ok.
Clare and Sligo earning a place as second seeds above Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Monaghan was the main flaw that stood out. Within the current structure while provincial winners are Seed 1, the remaining seeds should be based on league ranking.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7943 - 04/03/2024 17:31:06    2529793

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Replying To legendzxix:  "You're removing All-Ireland quarter-finals with that 12-10-10. The current 4 groups of 4 worked ok last year. Group winners had a weekend off before the quarter-finals. The preliminary quarter-final, while a surprise inclusion in the new format, worked out ok.
Clare and Sligo earning a place as second seeds above Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Monaghan was the main flaw that stood out. Within the current structure while provincial winners are Seed 1, the remaining seeds should be based on league ranking."
There is no pleasing "all of the people all of the time" it seems :)

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 04/03/2024 17:44:44    2529797

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Replying To legendzxix:  "You're removing All-Ireland quarter-finals with that 12-10-10. The current 4 groups of 4 worked ok last year. Group winners had a weekend off before the quarter-finals. The preliminary quarter-final, while a surprise inclusion in the new format, worked out ok.
Clare and Sligo earning a place as second seeds above Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Monaghan was the main flaw that stood out. Within the current structure while provincial winners are Seed 1, the remaining seeds should be based on league ranking."
Yeah I don't like the All Ireland quarterfinals because there aren't enough good games before them.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4256 - 04/03/2024 20:18:12    2529826

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It's actually so annoying that people want to always protect the league or protect the All Ireland quarterfinals when the reason that these things are good is that they are the best teams playing against one another but when you say the championship should involve the best teams playing against one another more it's crazy and what about the league what about the quarterfinals.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4256 - 04/03/2024 20:40:43    2529830

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Today, UEFA drew their qualifier groups for the Women's Euro 2025. It's interesting that the Women use a similar 3-tier qualifier for each Euros and World Cup to reset rankings for the next Nations League, and vice versa.

This would be like the GAA running the AIC group phase similar to the League (Whammo had an idea like this a few years ago). Of course, for this to work, we would need less matches/ less tiers in the League and more matches/ more tiers than in the AIC group phase.

Say, in both competitions, you could have 3 tiers, with divisions of 12, 10 & 10, each split into 2 groups. This is like playing the league twice each year, with promotion/ relegation applying in each and with the 'second league' played as the AIC.

In the first phase (League), teams play 5 games within their tier, either 6-team round robin, or 5v5.
League Finals for Div 1 group winners and the top 2 (of 10) in Divs 2 & 3, with each top 2 promoted, replacing bottom 2 from Div above.
Also, Promotion/ Relegation Playoffs for 3rd & 4th (of 10) in Divs 2 & 3 against 3rd last & 4th last, respectively, from the Div above.

In the second phase (AIC), teams also play 5 games within their tier, either 6-team round robin, or 5v5.
Top 3 in each Div 1 group and top 4 of 10 in Divs 2 & 3 to 'own tier' AIC KO phase.
Divs 2 & 3 Finalists promoted, with SF losers against 3rd last & 4th last from the Div above in Promotion/ Relegation Playoffs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 05/03/2024 23:10:43    2530017

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Replying To omahant:  "Today, UEFA drew their qualifier groups for the Women's Euro 2025. It's interesting that the Women use a similar 3-tier qualifier for each Euros and World Cup to reset rankings for the next Nations League, and vice versa.

This would be like the GAA running the AIC group phase similar to the League (Whammo had an idea like this a few years ago). Of course, for this to work, we would need less matches/ less tiers in the League and more matches/ more tiers than in the AIC group phase.

Say, in both competitions, you could have 3 tiers, with divisions of 12, 10 & 10, each split into 2 groups. This is like playing the league twice each year, with promotion/ relegation applying in each and with the 'second league' played as the AIC.

In the first phase (League), teams play 5 games within their tier, either 6-team round robin, or 5v5.
League Finals for Div 1 group winners and the top 2 (of 10) in Divs 2 & 3, with each top 2 promoted, replacing bottom 2 from Div above.
Also, Promotion/ Relegation Playoffs for 3rd & 4th (of 10) in Divs 2 & 3 against 3rd last & 4th last, respectively, from the Div above.

In the second phase (AIC), teams also play 5 games within their tier, either 6-team round robin, or 5v5.
Top 3 in each Div 1 group and top 4 of 10 in Divs 2 & 3 to 'own tier' AIC KO phase.
Divs 2 & 3 Finalists promoted, with SF losers against 3rd last & 4th last from the Div above in Promotion/ Relegation Playoffs."
A format I've thought about is divisions of 11, 10, 11 in the league with 3 up and 2 down to make championship tiers of 12, 10, 10.

Championship 1 is 2 groups of 6 and the lower tiers are 2 groups of 5. Last place in each championship group enter into the lower league division. Championship winners into higher grade for league.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4256 - 07/03/2024 14:55:52    2530202

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Replying To Whammo86:  "A format I've thought about is divisions of 11, 10, 11 in the league with 3 up and 2 down to make championship tiers of 12, 10, 10.

Championship 1 is 2 groups of 6 and the lower tiers are 2 groups of 5. Last place in each championship group enter into the lower league division. Championship winners into higher grade for league."
Why not 12-10-10 for both?
All play 9-10 league games?
AIC KO SF 4 in each tier?
Without Prov Champps or League Finals to control game count presumably?

Now to game rule changes?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2664 - 07/03/2024 18:46:06    2530220

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Replying To KillingFields:  "As usual you dont counter the points with a backed up point you just insult the person. You do it to everyone!
The gaa needs to change how it sells itself. How it structures itself
This would do that"
The GAA is the biggest sporting organisation in the country. It pulls by far the biggest crowds in the country as far as team sports are concerned. I'm not sure where you're going with the GAA needing to change how it sells itself.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6033 - 07/03/2024 19:41:18    2530227

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