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Replying To Viking66: "The 3, 3, 2, 2 system you propose would be better than alternate weeks. You will be running into the weather difficulties for the hurling finals at the end of September, which would affect the quality of games and the attendance at them, although the 3 hurling champions will be better prepared for Leinster club championship conditions for sure. I suppose it all depends on what problems different individuals see as the important ones to resolve." I agree this is the best proposal I have seen yet and is better than alternate weeks
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 14/11/2023 11:02:13
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I do think whatever the format is, we won't have any of our Senior clubs in Leinster hurling final anytime soon. That's not to say that I think we have a championship of awful quality, just that the spread of quality is greater. Obviously, I'm not saying it's top class either.
We seem hung up on Leinster success for our clubs but in reality it means very little in the overall picture. Ballygunner could win another AI (2 in 3 years) but that hasn't done anything for Waterford.
I also notice an undercurrent with much of the commentary around the alternate weeks, that to me basically says who cares about the football, we'll use that as our break weeks. I don't think that is reality for many of the players however, who will still end up playing week in and week out.
One final point. We seem to be linking intercounty performance to club format a lot. To me that makes no sense. The best 35/40 hurlers will show up in a championship that is played over 8 weeks or 16 weeks much the same. Arguments can be made for or against that if you hurling over a longer period of time you will improve (I'm not so sure about that with football every other week but anyhow!) So, those 35/40 hurlers will go with the Wexford squad from around now most likely to next June/July. If our performance is not up to scratch come next summer, I think I would be looking at the period of training between now and then. the training / coaching etc and I wouldn't be linking it back to, "oh well how can we have the hurlers, our championship only lasts 6 or 7 weeks."
ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 19 - 14/11/2023 11:03:01
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Replying To Viking66: "Did you watch the Clare, Cork, Tipp, Waterford, and Kilkenny finals? I did. Nothing special about any of them. And the Limerick semi I saw wasn't champagne hurling either. NaP and Ballygunner are very good club teams but the standard apart from them was nothing to write home about." 100%, I watched most of them as well and thought the standard was dire in some of them.
But how good would they be played in August/September?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 14/11/2023 11:04:24
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Replying To Viking66: "I'd ignore the Intermediate result. Cloughbawn were missing nearly all their best players. I fancy KK to beat OLG next up also they are a good team. Goreys fitness seemed to tell against them in the 2nd half. Maybe more of their big players should commit to Senior Intercounty to help their club? Cullen and the Molloys?
Yes we lost to Westmeath but the same players beat Kilkenny twice.
Our u16a team lost the Michael Foley A final to Kilkenny by just a goal. Our u20s lost the last 2 Leinster finals by 1 point and 2 points to 2 good teams.
I agree with you 100% that we don't have the players to compete for all Irelands. But the lads we have should be competing for Leinsters at intercounty if managed and coached properly. The fact we still don't have a sports psychologist is a little annoying at this stage tbh. Name the 2 teams who over the last 5 years have beaten most of the other teams and have rarely had off days and what do they both have in common? A good sports psychologist. I know there are alot of other factors at play but both think their SPs make a huge difference. Clonlara in Clare appointed one and won their 1st Senior Club title in 15 years this year, despite having no Senior intercounty regulars. The only year I can think of when we had 1 was 1996.....
Going back to club the main reason our clubs haven't been doing well in Leinster is we have had no dominant golden generation at a club since Oulart. Lads on this still don't seem to get it through their heads that club success is completely disconnected from Intercounty success. If it wasn't Galway would have many more intercounty AIs won in the last 30 years, while Tipp and Cork would have nearly none." Pikeman told me on another thread we a sports psychologist just appointed! Hope they can add something now. I'll be amazed if they don't tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/11/2023 11:07:18
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Replying To alwaysasub: "Reading the article on the new Wexford FC pitch and I see as part of the new South East Campus, there will be a alfull Sized 4g pitch for Wexford GAA. It will be a great addition and well needed." I knew it, they were reading my posts.
This is so long over due and Clarecastle GAA in Clare opened a full size one lately.
It takes all the pressure off pitches and calendars as you can play hurling and football all year round.
I believe that Wexford should every other year have only one representative in the Leinster hurling or football. So one year its football finished in October, following year hurling. They can then spread out the matches, use 4G pitch to play championships in Nov/Dec. Its not that people do not want to go to matches at this time of year, its that the pitches are in bits.
Gives ample time to play these championships with no hurry. Finish one each year. Could even have a head-to-head game with previous years winners to decide representative in Leinster.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 14/11/2023 11:11:56
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "100%, I watched most of them as well and thought the standard was dire in some of them.
But how good would they be played in August/September?" So maybe they should adopt our model instead of us adopting theirs;-)
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/11/2023 11:13:18
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Replying To Viking66: "Clubs that specialise in hurling or football, or have enough players to specialise at both, have always done better at provincial and AI level. That's basic logic or common sense. Likewise counties. If we want to won more club and county AIs we would have to change our approach at club and county level and make clubs specialise more at one or the other. But then we wouldn't be true to ourselves any more. We are one of very few genuinely dual counties with mostly genuinely dual clubs. Maybe the only one. I think it's great my young lads play both tbh." I think its great that mine as well. And soccer with mine.
But there is no doubt that to reach the top of any, you can't just keep playing them all willy nilly and then come up against a Kilkenny hurler and wonder why he is better when he has played 3 times as much hurling as you did since he was a chap.
I get there is learnings from every game, and its good for them to try several but there comes a time to give one your total focus.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 14/11/2023 11:16:09
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "We got hammered in senior and intermediate Leinster club championship, Westmeath beat us in senior inter county championship, I think results speak for themselves" The club argument is a bit futile, its a year on year thing really, last year Horeswood won a Leinster, year prior Oylegate got to a final where they gave a fine Naas team plenty of it, I was disappointed in Gorey on Sunday but Conor Mac's injury, Eoin Molloy moving to Australia since the county championship added to the long term injuries of Gary Molloy and JJ Twamley really left to hamstrung for going toe to toe with KK, Thomastown are a seriously impressive team for Intermediate too, won all there knockout games in the Kilkenny championship by 15-20 points margins, talking to work colleagues from up there they reckon in they would have been at the very least a quarter finalist in Senior up there this year maybe even better.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 14/11/2023 11:17:48
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When you think of it it's no surprise Westmeath beat us in the championship. Raharney we're able to compete with Na Fianna at the weekend and if I'm not mistaken they only won the Westmeath championship thanks to a goal in the last minute by Joey Boyle against Lough Lene gaels, so there standard is higher than ours probably due to less teams in senior. The problem is not the split season , the problem is the quality
WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 239 - 14/11/2023 11:31:33
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "The club argument is a bit futile, its a year on year thing really, last year Horeswood won a Leinster, year prior Oylegate got to a final where they gave a fine Naas team plenty of it, I was disappointed in Gorey on Sunday but Conor Mac's injury, Eoin Molloy moving to Australia since the county championship added to the long term injuries of Gary Molloy and JJ Twamley really left to hamstrung for going toe to toe with KK, Thomastown are a seriously impressive team for Intermediate too, won all there knockout games in the Kilkenny championship by 15-20 points margins, talking to work colleagues from up there they reckon in they would have been at the very least a quarter finalist in Senior up there this year maybe even better." That's what I got told also. Think there's 2 or 3 new lads from Ttown getting their chance at Intercounty now too.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/11/2023 11:34:33
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "The club argument is a bit futile, its a year on year thing really, last year Horeswood won a Leinster, year prior Oylegate got to a final where they gave a fine Naas team plenty of it, I was disappointed in Gorey on Sunday but Conor Mac's injury, Eoin Molloy moving to Australia since the county championship added to the long term injuries of Gary Molloy and JJ Twamley really left to hamstrung for going toe to toe with KK, Thomastown are a seriously impressive team for Intermediate too, won all there knockout games in the Kilkenny championship by 15-20 points margins, talking to work colleagues from up there they reckon in they would have been at the very least a quarter finalist in Senior up there this year maybe even better." Some county to make excuses - someone on here even said the ref was to blame for Gorey's result.
grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 177 - 14/11/2023 11:41:53
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Replying To WexMurph: "When you think of it it's no surprise Westmeath beat us in the championship. Raharney we're able to compete with Na Fianna at the weekend and if I'm not mistaken they only won the Westmeath championship thanks to a goal in the last minute by Joey Boyle against Lough Lene gaels, so there standard is higher than ours probably due to less teams in senior. The problem is not the split season , the problem is the quality" 'When you think of it it's no surprise Westmeath beat us in the championship' I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense, the reason we lost to Westmeath is the players downed tools and produced the worst 35 mins I've ever seen from a Wexford team Mens, womens, adult or underage.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 14/11/2023 11:48:14
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Replying To grassroots01: "Some county to make excuses - someone on here even said the ref was to blame for Gorey's result." It's not excuses it just being realistic, Ballyhale were down 5 players this year and they caught in Kilkenny because of it.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 14/11/2023 11:56:12
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Replying To grassroots01: "Some county to make excuses - someone on here even said the ref was to blame for Gorey's result." So true, blaming split season, blaming refs etc, we don't have players at the moment
Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 472 - 14/11/2023 12:00:45
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Replying To Viking66: "How do you go 2,2,2,2 with groups of 5? And BTW I still think the system we have is best for the majority of players, majority of clubs, and for the county teams also." We don't have groups of 5. We have groups of 6
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 14/11/2023 12:08:54
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "'When you think of it it's no surprise Westmeath beat us in the championship' I'm sorry but that's utter nonsense, the reason we lost to Westmeath is the players downed tools and produced the worst 35 mins I've ever seen from a Wexford team Mens, womens, adult or underage." And what's the excuse for the year before?
WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 239 - 14/11/2023 12:14:14
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Replying To WexMurph: "And what's the excuse for the year before?" Poor mentality, our championship record vs KK and Galway last 2 years is 2 wins draw and a loss, v Westmeath its a draw and loss, try figure that out.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 14/11/2023 12:27:07
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Poor mentality, our championship record vs KK and Galway last 2 years is 2 wins draw and a loss, v Westmeath its a draw and loss, try figure that out." WexMurph to put things in context for you this year our points difference in Leinster was -4, Westmeath was -80, the 2nd half no show vs Westmeath put us in a situation we should never have been in.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 14/11/2023 12:34:03
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I knew it, they were reading my posts.
This is so long over due and Clarecastle GAA in Clare opened a full size one lately.
It takes all the pressure off pitches and calendars as you can play hurling and football all year round.
I believe that Wexford should every other year have only one representative in the Leinster hurling or football. So one year its football finished in October, following year hurling. They can then spread out the matches, use 4G pitch to play championships in Nov/Dec. Its not that people do not want to go to matches at this time of year, its that the pitches are in bits.
Gives ample time to play these championships with no hurry. Finish one each year. Could even have a head-to-head game with previous years winners to decide representative in Leinster." Your idea of only entering Leinster club hurling or Leinster club football in any given year would be absolutely unfair to any club who happens to win their championship in the "wrong" year.
Consider the Rapps in hurling in 2021 - they'd been waiting 45 years for a county title and a crack at Leinster. And then Ferns in 2022 - they'd been waiting forever. Under your idea, one of them wouldn't have had the chance to play in Leinster at all. The fact that both of them suffered disappointing defeats is irrelevant, because at least they got to play.
Furthermore, your idea that they could play off to decide who goes into Leinster is absolutely not allowed under the rules. The only club that can compete in the provincial championships is the actual county champion club in the relevant grade of the year. There is absolutely no provision for sending some other club to compete instead.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 14/11/2023 12:39:45
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I knew it, they were reading my posts.
This is so long over due and Clarecastle GAA in Clare opened a full size one lately.
It takes all the pressure off pitches and calendars as you can play hurling and football all year round.
I believe that Wexford should every other year have only one representative in the Leinster hurling or football. So one year its football finished in October, following year hurling. They can then spread out the matches, use 4G pitch to play championships in Nov/Dec. Its not that people do not want to go to matches at this time of year, its that the pitches are in bits.
Gives ample time to play these championships with no hurry. Finish one each year. Could even have a head-to-head game with previous years winners to decide representative in Leinster." By the way, re. the 4G pitch - I note that the news report (The Examiner) says only: "The council also plans to provide land for Wexford GAA to install a new full-size 4G pitch."
That would suggest it's still up to Wexford GAA to actually develop the pitch. Ballpark figures for a GAA-sized 4G pitch are in the region of €1 million. You can probably add on another couple of hundred thousand if you're also going to develop the sort of spectator facilities that would be needed to host any sort of a crowd there for championship matches.
So, could be a while yet before it's actually in place.....
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 14/11/2023 12:46:22
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