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All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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O my God. They had 16 players on the field which is breaking the rules. This infringement is an unfair disadvantage to your opponent and refs are not punished when making a mistake. Maybe a player should be punished when he kicks a wide. What do we want next ? Make a rule that it is okay if the 16, 17, 18, makes no difference to the result ? O wait though what is the criteria for that ? He was only standing on the line ? O he was only on for a minute during play and that should be five minute. On and on tying knots like many typical GAA rules that can not be simple with straight forward consequence but we love the what ifs. You could write a book listing what is in the GAA rules grave yard.
This rule is simple and the world and his father knows that you cannot have more that 15 players playing, full stop. The consequence should be the same, simple. If occurring during the game the player is sent off because he is illegally playing. If it is noted after the game the game is replayed, leaving out the this and thats. If the team played 16 lose they get a hefty fine. No advantage for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3035 - 01/02/2023 14:58:54    2455810

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Malachy O'Rourke"
He asked the fourth official at the time. He said it in a post match radio interview. They knew before the full time whistle was blown. What is beyond belief is the fact that Derek O' Mahony made no reference whatsoever to the entire incident in his report. I was at the game and we were looking at photos and discussing the incident in Cleary's by six o clock that evening.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 01/02/2023 15:09:01    2455812

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Replying To Canuck:  "O my God. They had 16 players on the field which is breaking the rules. This infringement is an unfair disadvantage to your opponent and refs are not punished when making a mistake. Maybe a player should be punished when he kicks a wide. What do we want next ? Make a rule that it is okay if the 16, 17, 18, makes no difference to the result ? O wait though what is the criteria for that ? He was only standing on the line ? O he was only on for a minute during play and that should be five minute. On and on tying knots like many typical GAA rules that can not be simple with straight forward consequence but we love the what ifs. You could write a book listing what is in the GAA rules grave yard.
This rule is simple and the world and his father knows that you cannot have more that 15 players playing, full stop. The consequence should be the same, simple. If occurring during the game the player is sent off because he is illegally playing. If it is noted after the game the game is replayed, leaving out the this and thats. If the team played 16 lose they get a hefty fine. No advantage for unsportsmanlike conduct."
I'm not sure I'd call it unsportsmanlike but if it is it got Mayo to an All Ireland fina 2021, decent reward

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 885 - 01/02/2023 15:19:58    2455815

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "It's unbelievable that we can't do a Soccer style player off, player on. Watch any Soccer game and the sun don't come on until the player he's replacing comes off. An that includes an injury.
If this simple exercise was enforced there would never be 16/17 players on any team.
It's so simple to enforce is actually laughable."
You are 100% correct except the GAA will not follow soccer until they are forced to do so….just look at what happened when there was a rule introduced to move the penalty forward from the 13 meter line. The GAA just wouldn't go with a 'penalty spot', they did it their way and introduced a little line. Sure it took years before they eventually capitulated and introduced yellow and red cards.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1103 - 01/02/2023 15:33:38    2455818

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Replying To Jack L:  "The linesman indicated that a substitution was in progress. The referee had his hand up to stop play. The so called "16th" man came on as he was entitled to. The team was set up to defend the 45'. As Glen chose to ignore the referee and take the 45 quickly, the substituted player could not walk off as he was defending the situation.
When play stopped he proceeded to come off.
Incidently the referee was aware that the substitution was not complete as he did not allow play to recommence until he had left the field of play.
KC were the victims than the sinners."
Funny how the 22000 people at the game heard the names of the players being substituted on the pa system, the only ones who didn't seem to know who was coming off were the two players being substituted and the KC management!

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 1054 - 01/02/2023 15:35:21    2455820

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Replying To totalrecall:  "Funny how the 22000 people at the game heard the names of the players being substituted on the pa system, the only ones who didn't seem to know who was coming off were the two players being substituted and the KC management!"
And the officials. The rule that subs can only come on at a stoppage of play when indicated by the ref is pointless if the ref restarts play b4 the substituted players leave the field.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 885 - 01/02/2023 15:49:40    2455822

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "He should have ensured a player left the field before restarting play."
You are correct.
One of the duties of the referee is to ensure that the correct number of players are on the pitch at all times.
Did a club pull a fast one here? We will never know only and can only surmise. Therefore the club cannot be held faulted.
What is indisputable is the fact that the match officials are to blame.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 01/02/2023 16:04:44    2455826

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Replying To sligo joe:  "And the officials. The rule that subs can only come on at a stoppage of play when indicated by the ref is pointless if the ref restarts play b4 the substituted players leave the field."
Surely the players who are substituted should at least make an attempt to start to leave so the referee notices them?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 01/02/2023 16:07:21    2455829

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Replying To Jack L:  "In the "Crossmaglen" final, there was a player doubled carded and the referee did not show a red. This happened midway through the second half. Incidently he was substituted immediately. But Cross should have played final stages with 14 men.
Dr Crokes had every right to appeal but chose to accept result on the field of play and move on.

Glen should have done the same. If they win, it will be tainted. Already tainted for KC"
Glen shouldnt have accepted the result when there was a clear and obvious mistake and they are fully entitled to appeal.
That Dr Crokes didnt appeal when fully entitled to doesnt mean that Glen shouldnt appeal.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3755 - 01/02/2023 16:13:19    2455830

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Replying To spion7:  "Malachy O'Rourke said in his after match interview that he pointed it out to the linesman but was ignored..I've no reason to doubt him."
So how come that doesn't affect the outcome? If the ref had done his job correctly and allowed a retake, there'd be no issue.

SimonstownBack (Meath) - Posts: 163 - 01/02/2023 16:14:32    2455831

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Replying To jimbodub:  "In order for a name to disappear it has to be deleted

Two reasons

You either get the boot
or
You ask for your username/account to be discontinued

There was a Laois poster that had a bizarre amount of likes that got booted because it turned out *he/she/zhe/them/those had setup many other usernames and was liking all *his own posts in huge numbers

But if Kingdomboys username has also been discontinued on a Kerry forum too, it would probably indicate that they've chosen to discontinue their participation

I've left HS myself for over a year or months at a time but kept my username active, but always felt I might add the odd post, there's something very final about purposely wanting your account to be discontinued

So yeah, he was either booted or decided call it quits and asked administration to delete his account"
Thanks Jimbo. I honestly don't know where he disappeared to but he went all of a sudden and def was nt booted off the Kerry forum anyway.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3901 - 01/02/2023 16:43:15    2455839

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Replying To totalrecall:  "Funny how the 22000 people at the game heard the names of the players being substituted on the pa system, the only ones who didn't seem to know who was coming off were the two players being substituted and the KC management!"
I didn't imply that they did not hear the instruction. The 'new' player was entitled to enter the field of play when the referee indicates it is correct to do so.

While the substituted player should have left the pitch immediately, common sense will tell you that he will not walk off while defending an attack. He will wait for a stoppage to come off. Once play did not stop when the match officials indicated the substitution, this is not the fault of the KC players or management.

In the case of the "17th" player, he was on his way to the sideline when the 45 was taken. Again play should not have been allowed to continue while he was on the pitch.

Bottom line is that a substitution results in a stoppage in play and can only take place when indicated by match officials. KC management is not to blame and the player in question is not entirely to blame as he was not given the opportunity to leave the playing arena. (Before someone jumps to conclusions with my use of "opportunity", I mean that play did not stop - Who was to blame for this?)

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3149 - 01/02/2023 16:50:14    2455841

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This unwillingness to enforce rules and this mindset "ah but sure it didn't really make any difference" is one of the primary factors that fuels some of the more unsavoury rule breaches we see in our games. With spring/summer approaching it's only a matter of time before we see the first melee, brawl flashpoint event where the perpetrators know that when the dust settles there will be no real consequences and similar sort of justification guff that we have heard about the Glen/Crokes issue being used like " heat of the moment", "only handbags" ' "he's not that sort of player"

Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 159 - 01/02/2023 16:58:17    2455842

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Replying To Viking66:  "Surely the players who are substituted should at least make an attempt to start to leave so the referee notices them?"
You're making my point, the players had not left the field so the ref could not have "noticed" them leaving, so why did he restart the game?

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 885 - 01/02/2023 17:31:02    2455849

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Replying To Jack L:  "I didn't imply that they did not hear the instruction. The 'new' player was entitled to enter the field of play when the referee indicates it is correct to do so.

While the substituted player should have left the pitch immediately, common sense will tell you that he will not walk off while defending an attack. He will wait for a stoppage to come off. Once play did not stop when the match officials indicated the substitution, this is not the fault of the KC players or management.

In the case of the "17th" player, he was on his way to the sideline when the 45 was taken. Again play should not have been allowed to continue while he was on the pitch.

Bottom line is that a substitution results in a stoppage in play and can only take place when indicated by match officials. KC management is not to blame and the player in question is not entirely to blame as he was not given the opportunity to leave the playing arena. (Before someone jumps to conclusions with my use of "opportunity", I mean that play did not stop - Who was to blame for this?)"
Play was obviously stopped long enough for his replacement to reach the large rectangle. Plenty of time for him to be at least most of the way off. In fact he could have, and should have, left the pitch at the closest point which would have involved him only taking 3 steps. Both him and his replacement were in position to defend the 45 when it was taken. That's certainly not the referees fault.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 01/02/2023 17:31:02    2455850

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I can of course see both sides.The ref,lineman have to take some blame and so do the Crokes as they probably should have made sure the players came off.But can't understand why people are having a pop at Glen.what do you want them to do ah sure its alright let them have an extra man on the pitch sure if we dont win what the hell.Its an all Ireland final they may never get to one again.Its the stuff of dreams for most clubs.Put yourself in a Glen playets shoes you have a 45 with seconds left and need a goal and the other team suddenly has an extra player(whether he touches the ball or not)he affects the game.Of course you'd feel for Kilmacud players as well and it's tough on them lost last year right at the end and now this year.Its an officials mistake and a replay is probably the fairest way but why are people having a pop at Glen I just dont know.
..

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 339 - 01/02/2023 17:31:35    2455851

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Replying To sligo joe:  "You're making my point, the players had not left the field so the ref could not have "noticed" them leaving, so why did he restart the game?"
Surely that's the substituted players fault that he took so long to even start leaving the pitch that his replacement was able to reach the large rectangle and take up a defensive position! The fact that his replacement was able to reach the large rectangle means that the game was stopped for plenty long enough for him to start making his way off!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 01/02/2023 17:41:08    2455853

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "I can of course see both sides.The ref,lineman have to take some blame and so do the Crokes as they probably should have made sure the players came off.But can't understand why people are having a pop at Glen.what do you want them to do ah sure its alright let them have an extra man on the pitch sure if we dont win what the hell.Its an all Ireland final they may never get to one again.Its the stuff of dreams for most clubs.Put yourself in a Glen playets shoes you have a 45 with seconds left and need a goal and the other team suddenly has an extra player(whether he touches the ball or not)he affects the game.Of course you'd feel for Kilmacud players as well and it's tough on them lost last year right at the end and now this year.Its an officials mistake and a replay is probably the fairest way but why are people having a pop at Glen I just dont know.
.."
It's absolutely outrageous that some clowns on this forum and in the media think that Glen are to blame for anything in this situation. "Take your beating off an illegally large 16 man team and #### off back to the North like good little men" seems to be the attitude of some.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 01/02/2023 17:44:01    2455854

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "I can of course see both sides.The ref,lineman have to take some blame and so do the Crokes as they probably should have made sure the players came off.But can't understand why people are having a pop at Glen.what do you want them to do ah sure its alright let them have an extra man on the pitch sure if we dont win what the hell.Its an all Ireland final they may never get to one again.Its the stuff of dreams for most clubs.Put yourself in a Glen playets shoes you have a 45 with seconds left and need a goal and the other team suddenly has an extra player(whether he touches the ball or not)he affects the game.Of course you'd feel for Kilmacud players as well and it's tough on them lost last year right at the end and now this year.Its an officials mistake and a replay is probably the fairest way but why are people having a pop at Glen I just dont know.
.."
No blame should be directed at Glen at all.

Is it true that Joe Brolly is representing Glen, in what I don't know? I saw it on twitter although not the best barometer of the truth tbf. If it's true it makes sense why he has been so adament about a replay and placing all the blame on Crokes.

SimonstownBack (Meath) - Posts: 163 - 01/02/2023 17:49:51    2455855

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Replying To Viking66:  "Play was obviously stopped long enough for his replacement to reach the large rectangle. Plenty of time for him to be at least most of the way off. In fact he could have, and should have, left the pitch at the closest point which would have involved him only taking 3 steps. Both him and his replacement were in position to defend the 45 when it was taken. That's certainly not the referees fault."
Did you actually see the incident?

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1468 - 01/02/2023 19:04:03    2455864

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