National Forum

All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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Replying To Viking66:  "They made no attempt to. The guy who was subbed off never started leaving the pitch."
Are you serious, he was never going to walk away when he was defending an attack.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3149 - 02/02/2023 13:39:13    2456011

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They'll be playing holograms because the Crokes won't be there."
Did Dublin beat holograms in extra time a few years back. I'm sure Glen could do the same.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2289 - 02/02/2023 13:54:23    2456013

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They'll be playing holograms because the Crokes won't be there."
I would put my house on a replay being scheduled. And I would equally put my house on the fact that both teams will field. Pure scaremongery trying to suggest that KC wont field . I am certain that they WILL. The sooner everyone comes to the realisation of these facts they better for all involved.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 981 - 02/02/2023 14:06:13    2456015

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Who is to blame
1. Match Officials
2. The rules of the game
3. Kilmacud management
4. Both substituting and substituted players

But DEFINITELY not Glen.

If any one tries to tell me that Glen were wrong to try to take the free quickly then they know nothing about the game.
A team can not be expected at every stoppage of play to be waiting on a ref approval to continue before restarting.
The quick free is one of the positive elements of the game ( just as the ever increasing super slow free is one of the most negative).
Quick frees are also (and correctly) used to gain advantage when a team is in a potentially advantageous position.

One positive that might come out of all of this going forward is that it might limit this practice of using substitutions to lessen the opponents advantage by removing the quick free options.

With team that I ever was involved in , we only made substitutions when we knew that we could get the substitution made at a time when we had the opportunity to get the players on ( and the player off!) without compromising our ability to defend the situation. Kilmacud were relying on the referee to completely slow the game down while they dallied with the replacement.... and to be honest I am glad that they are paying the price."
Got it, why would Glen not want to take the free quickly with time running out and the possibility of needing a second score. Glen had no hand act or part in KImacud playing with 16 players and should have no action required for that violation of a basic rule to be dealt with.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3035 - 02/02/2023 14:08:59    2456016

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Replying To anotheralias:  "I would put my house on a replay being scheduled. And I would equally put my house on the fact that both teams will field. Pure scaremongery trying to suggest that KC wont field . I am certain that they WILL. The sooner everyone comes to the realisation of these facts they better for all involved."
KC have appealed. Not sure on what grounds....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 02/02/2023 14:32:38    2456026

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Replying To Jack L:  "Are you serious, he was never going to walk away when he was defending an attack."
He should've left while play was stopped? When the other guy came on?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 02/02/2023 14:33:24    2456027

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Did Dublin beat holograms in extra time a few years back. I'm sure Glen could do the same."
Well they didn't beat them. You missed that part and not even they are claiming that they would have beaten them if it hadn't been for the official mess up that lasted 23 seconds.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3510 - 02/02/2023 14:34:30    2456028

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Replying To Canuck:  "Got it, why would Glen not want to take the free quickly with time running out and the possibility of needing a second score. Glen had no hand act or part in KImacud playing with 16 players and should have no action required for that violation of a basic rule to be dealt with."
I hope that Croke Park are not reading this forum. We are all going round in circles stating the same thing. Everyone has their opinion on the topic but a different angle.

This saga should stop and lets get on with the season which is very condensed as it is without adding an additional fixture.

Why did the CCCC not propose a fine on KC and leave it at that.

If Glen are not happy, then give them the cup and move on with the season.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3149 - 02/02/2023 14:48:04    2456030

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Replying To Jack L:  "I hope that Croke Park are not reading this forum. We are all going round in circles stating the same thing. Everyone has their opinion on the topic but a different angle.

This saga should stop and lets get on with the season which is very condensed as it is without adding an additional fixture.

Why did the CCCC not propose a fine on KC and leave it at that.

If Glen are not happy, then give them the cup and move on with the season."
I actually do hope that Croke Park are reading this forum. They might get a sense of what genuine supporters feel.
Apart from Dublin and Derry posters who are , as you would expect partisan, if there was an analysis of posts from neutral posters the vast vast majority are in favour of a replay. I think that says it all.
The talk of a fine and move on is just ridiculous. As is the talk of giving cups to anyone. This one will be won on the field and if Crokes are good enough (which I think they are ) they will win it .

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 981 - 02/02/2023 15:13:05    2456035

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It certainly is the referee and his assistants fault…. The ref should not have allowed a substitute enter play unless he got the ok from the side line… This is yet another case of the GAA standing stoutly behind incompetent officials regardless of how they carry out their duties…. Another huge cock up by the GAA"
Match officials ( which I have attributed the blame to) are like all humans. They make mistakes. There are a number of examples of it over the years. Situations where referees have made the incorrect call and their mistake had a direct bearing on the result. The referee came out and admitted his error. Upon investigation, a replay or a rematch was not ordered.

In this situation, did this impact the result. NO. A quickly taken free was taken and the Glen player got in his shot and it went narrowly wide. He was clearly going for a goal. OK, the player in question was standing on the goal line but did not touch the ball.

If an objection, rematch or replay is ordered for every referee error the season will never end. It is a conjested season enough without dragging it on due to technicalities. (I'm calling it a technicality as it did not impact the result for the reasons stated above - I know people will differ with my opinion)

The CCCC made the incorrect call ordering a replay. This will give teams the opportunity to go down the same road, maybe not for substitutions but for something else.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3149 - 02/02/2023 15:56:09    2456044

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Replying To Jack L:  "I hope that Croke Park are not reading this forum. We are all going round in circles stating the same thing. Everyone has their opinion on the topic but a different angle.

This saga should stop and lets get on with the season which is very condensed as it is without adding an additional fixture.

Why did the CCCC not propose a fine on KC and leave it at that.

If Glen are not happy, then give them the cup and move on with the season."
That's no way to run anything. KC have the cup by default. Rules were broken. A fine you say. That's no deterrent.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2289 - 02/02/2023 15:56:46    2456045

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Replying To Jack L:  "Match officials ( which I have attributed the blame to) are like all humans. They make mistakes. There are a number of examples of it over the years. Situations where referees have made the incorrect call and their mistake had a direct bearing on the result. The referee came out and admitted his error. Upon investigation, a replay or a rematch was not ordered.

In this situation, did this impact the result. NO. A quickly taken free was taken and the Glen player got in his shot and it went narrowly wide. He was clearly going for a goal. OK, the player in question was standing on the goal line but did not touch the ball.

If an objection, rematch or replay is ordered for every referee error the season will never end. It is a conjested season enough without dragging it on due to technicalities. (I'm calling it a technicality as it did not impact the result for the reasons stated above - I know people will differ with my opinion)

The CCCC made the incorrect call ordering a replay. This will give teams the opportunity to go down the same road, maybe not for substitutions but for something else."
Referees decisions are one thing. Playing a 15 aside game with more than 15 players is another. Noone can know how the last play would have turned out with 15 defenders because the defenders would not have been in the same position as they were.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15675 - 02/02/2023 16:38:42    2456056

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Replying To Jack L:  "Match officials ( which I have attributed the blame to) are like all humans. They make mistakes. There are a number of examples of it over the years. Situations where referees have made the incorrect call and their mistake had a direct bearing on the result. The referee came out and admitted his error. Upon investigation, a replay or a rematch was not ordered.

In this situation, did this impact the result. NO. A quickly taken free was taken and the Glen player got in his shot and it went narrowly wide. He was clearly going for a goal. OK, the player in question was standing on the goal line but did not touch the ball.

If an objection, rematch or replay is ordered for every referee error the season will never end. It is a conjested season enough without dragging it on due to technicalities. (I'm calling it a technicality as it did not impact the result for the reasons stated above - I know people will differ with my opinion)

The CCCC made the incorrect call ordering a replay. This will give teams the opportunity to go down the same road, maybe not for substitutions but for something else."
How does he not affect play?.He is on the line so is protecting the goal so a Glen player can't put the ball in that corner.Is that not affecting play?He doesn't have to touch the ball to be affecting play.Also because he is on the line it frees up another Crokes player to mark a Glen player thus stopping him getting the ball, again affecting play.Match officials yes are part of the blame I agree with there but you have to ask why make a sub with seconds left and the opposing team has a 45/50.Surely you are distracting your own players by making a sub and everyone wondering who's going off and who's marking who.It doesn't make sense to me unless a lad is injured and in that case he would go down for treatment etc.It a messy situation and I do feel for both teams its dragging on to long now.The Gaa should've sorted it out on the night of the game.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 339 - 02/02/2023 16:49:45    2456060

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Replying To Jack L:  "Match officials ( which I have attributed the blame to) are like all humans. They make mistakes. There are a number of examples of it over the years. Situations where referees have made the incorrect call and their mistake had a direct bearing on the result. The referee came out and admitted his error. Upon investigation, a replay or a rematch was not ordered.

In this situation, did this impact the result. NO. A quickly taken free was taken and the Glen player got in his shot and it went narrowly wide. He was clearly going for a goal. OK, the player in question was standing on the goal line but did not touch the ball.

If an objection, rematch or replay is ordered for every referee error the season will never end. It is a conjested season enough without dragging it on due to technicalities. (I'm calling it a technicality as it did not impact the result for the reasons stated above - I know people will differ with my opinion)

The CCCC made the incorrect call ordering a replay. This will give teams the opportunity to go down the same road, maybe not for substitutions but for something else."
Yes, the Glen player got his shot in and he was clearly going for goal. No one knows who the extra player was, 14 or 19. IF 19 didn't tell 14 then 19 was to blame and before the Glen player took his shot 19 ran towards him with his hands up to block his shot. Between the two of them they cost KC an All Ireland. If the GAA let this sort of thing go where would it end. Replay.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2289 - 02/02/2023 17:00:35    2456062

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "We have the 4th official in Inter County games. Is there a 4th official for National Finals?
I agree the Referee can miss something. But surely the linesman if there no 4th official can deal with Sub on , player off and notify the ref?
Are they all not Mic up? It's officials fault it happened and it's the Top Brass fault for dragging it out so long.
If both Teams are privy to the referees report
it's only natural that Glen would object and that Kilmacud would counter object.
This will go down as the replay that never was played. It all just makes a mockery of the competition."
Correct. The 4th Official can deal with subs introduced, and players replaced. I think they also record time to be added, on instruction from the referee. The whole affair does not reflect well on the association.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 02/02/2023 17:43:34    2456071

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Yes, the Glen player got his shot in and he was clearly going for goal. No one knows who the extra player was, 14 or 19. IF 19 didn't tell 14 then 19 was to blame and before the Glen player took his shot 19 ran towards him with his hands up to block his shot. Between the two of them they cost KC an All Ireland. If the GAA let this sort of thing go where would it end. Replay."
19 didn't get the chance to tell 14! As a previous poster outlined, this is going around in circles but I do however feel that you need someone to tell you that you are right.. So let me have the pleasure - you are right!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1468 - 02/02/2023 19:10:43    2456081

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Replying To Viking66:  "They made no attempt to. The guy who was subbed off never started leaving the pitch."
Fair enough, although maybe he didn't know his time was up?* If the ref had prevented Glen's quick free until the substitution was completed** we wouldn't be here.

*Or maybe he did...
**Plus a load if other stuff.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1168 - 02/02/2023 19:13:01    2456083

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Lads the ref was informed at the time as per Malachy O'Rourke. He decided it didnt need to be retaken, wrong in my opinion but that was his call. The match is over. Crokes won. The trophy was handed over. Time to move on.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 02/02/2023 19:33:55    2456086

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Remind me again folks, what was the reason the GAA (or the committee-in-charge or whatever it is in the rules) couldn't start their own inquiry rather than wait for Glen? Cos the rules around objections clearly mention an inquiry by the committee-in-charge.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1168 - 02/02/2023 21:10:36    2456095

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "Remind me again folks, what was the reason the GAA (or the committee-in-charge or whatever it is in the rules) couldn't start their own inquiry rather than wait for Glen? Cos the rules around objections clearly mention an inquiry by the committee-in-charge."
The CCCC investigates disciplinary matters. They have the power to review all the incidents of this nature which occurs. They incorporate the referee in these matters
The 16th man was a technical issue (there is no clear rule around substitutions - therefore technically no rule broken) which I believe is outside the remit of the CCCC. The only way the CCCC can investigate these issues is upon an objection.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3149 - 03/02/2023 10:22:24    2456111

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