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Replying To Freethinker: "If we are to take it that there will be a place for players of the M Murphy calibre in the re-invented full forward position under the new "Galvin" rules, can a case be made for the return of still one of our best inside forwards - yes, the one and only Seanie - to the county panel ??" I think he may have passed his sell by date. No work rate on the pitch
kodak13 (Wicklow) - Posts: 77 - 12/11/2024 13:53:57
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Replying To Freethinker: "Agree with all the above. Our standards are low, in both codes. To be a Wicklow GAA supporter you have to be one of two types. Either an eternal optimist or be happy with the status quo - by this I mean happy with small returns after 140 yrs or so of Gaelic games. I am of the former but, too many of our clubs, in my opinion, belong to the latter. Again, this is no reflection on the clubs named in your post. Some of our clubs just can't seem to get it right on the big days. Our football championships this year were an example. Arguably the most exciting team through the league stages didn't even make the semis. Avondale, on paper, have a great foot ball team, with a good number of inter county standard players and belong in senior ranks. To me, Carnew benefitted from Ben Brosnan joining them and maybe punched above their weight as a result. Anyway, there is always next year." I think there is a certain amount of delusion amongst supporters. For me there's been three senior Wicklow teams that have achieved something notable in the last 140 years - Baltinglass winning the All Ireland club championship in 1990; this won't be emulated by a Wicklow club for a long time, if ever. Rathnew winning the Leinster club championship in 2002 and Wicklow seniors under Mick O'Dwyer between 2007 - 2012. No other club outside Baltinglass and Rathnew have done anything worthy. Ok, An Tochar and TInahely have reached the Leinster club finals in 1984 and 1995 respectively. Without strong underage and/or club scene; it is impossible to have successful county teams. This is where we are. We have some NICE footballers but they are not WINNERS. This might sound harsh but when games are there to be won, Wicklow teams seldom win those type of games. Even our win over Westmeath this year was built on a big lead and hanging on at the end. I think the biggest problem in Wicklow is an willingness to change and take a different approach. It is hard to see how the fundamental change that is required, will materialise but as you say, to be a Wicklow supporter, you have to be an optimist above everything else.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2023 - 12/11/2024 14:23:53
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Hurling is no comparison to the level of Football in this county and I think we are to quick to knock the standard of football in this county when I genuinely believe the standard of player and what is expected of them has changed drastically in the last decade. I have been around development squads in Balinakill in hurling and football and the level the hurlers are at is miles behind the footballers in terms of ability and opponents. We're not far behind Leitrim on the funding issue if we're honest.
Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 68 - 12/11/2024 17:28:41
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Replying To Albundy19: "Hurling is no comparison to the level of Football in this county and I think we are to quick to knock the standard of football in this county when I genuinely believe the standard of player and what is expected of them has changed drastically in the last decade. I have been around development squads in Balinakill in hurling and football and the level the hurlers are at is miles behind the footballers in terms of ability and opponents. We're not far behind Leitrim on the funding issue if we're honest." I would love to be able to agree with you and hats off to you for working with youngsters around Ballinakill. You, and others like you, and they, are our future. Having said this, our results in Leinster U17 and u19/20 don't back your belief up. We still can't beat the top 5/6 teams in Leinster when it matters and haven't been able to for years now. Like I have said on here previously, it's as if when we think we have reached the desired standard, the top teams have pushed the bar a little higher. When we can reach the standards of Dubs, Meath, Kildare, now Louth, Offaly and even Longford, beat them reasonably regularly, then, and only then, will we be able to say that we have improved. I fear we are a bit off achieving this still. It's one thing beating Wexford, Carlow, even Laois but the next step up seems to be always one too far. And that's no disrespect to these counties. They are in a struggle to lift themselves just like us.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 12/11/2024 20:12:54
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Replying To Albundy19: "Hurling is no comparison to the level of Football in this county and I think we are to quick to knock the standard of football in this county when I genuinely believe the standard of player and what is expected of them has changed drastically in the last decade. I have been around development squads in Balinakill in hurling and football and the level the hurlers are at is miles behind the footballers in terms of ability and opponents. We're not far behind Leitrim on the funding issue if we're honest." I'm really not quite sure where the basis of this point is coming from that the football standard is far ahead of the hurling. Absolutely no basis for that argument going on any minor/u21 football team since the 97 minors were beaten by Laois in a Leinster final. Thats 27 years ago. Let that sink in.
Gaa_supporter (Wicklow) - Posts: 20 - 13/11/2024 00:00:46
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Replying To Freethinker: "I would love to be able to agree with you and hats off to you for working with youngsters around Ballinakill. You, and others like you, and they, are our future. Having said this, our results in Leinster U17 and u19/20 don't back your belief up. We still can't beat the top 5/6 teams in Leinster when it matters and haven't been able to for years now. Like I have said on here previously, it's as if when we think we have reached the desired standard, the top teams have pushed the bar a little higher. When we can reach the standards of Dubs, Meath, Kildare, now Louth, Offaly and even Longford, beat them reasonably regularly, then, and only then, will we be able to say that we have improved. I fear we are a bit off achieving this still. It's one thing beating Wexford, Carlow, even Laois but the next step up seems to be always one too far. And that's no disrespect to these counties. They are in a struggle to lift themselves just like us." We beat yourselves last time we played you in a championship game, beat Offaly the last time we played them in Leinster too. Since you last knocked us out of Leinster in 2020 I think we have only lost to Dublin, Laois and Louth.
We've a decent recent record against Longford in the League.
Agree we both have to improve, though it's hard for us to improve in Football when alot of the best Footballers we have play intercounty hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13859 - 13/11/2024 09:20:14
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Replying To Viking66: "We beat yourselves last time we played you in a championship game, beat Offaly the last time we played them in Leinster too. Since you last knocked us out of Leinster in 2020 I think we have only lost to Dublin, Laois and Louth.
We've a decent recent record against Longford in the League.
Agree we both have to improve, though it's hard for us to improve in Football when alot of the best Footballers we have play intercounty hurling." Thought it was obvious we were talking underage here, but whatever floats your boat.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 13/11/2024 09:55:46
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Replying To Freethinker: "Thought it was obvious we were talking underage here, but whatever floats your boat." Ah ok lad. I saw your minors in Enniscorthy back in April, not a great night for it, you had some good young lads coming through. How did they get on after beating us? We ended up beating Meath, but losing to Dublin. Then in the tier 2 AI we beat Monaghan, but lost to Tyrone, although our preparations for that game were severely hampered as the Gorey lads were just home from a tour and the game got delayed and moved up to Tyrone as a result.
So there you go, you are in the same company as Tyrone and Dublin, the 3 counties who beat our minors in Championship this year!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13859 - 13/11/2024 10:11:29
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Replying To Gaa_supporter: "I'm really not quite sure where the basis of this point is coming from that the football standard is far ahead of the hurling. Absolutely no basis for that argument going on any minor/u21 football team since the 97 minors were beaten by Laois in a Leinster final. Thats 27 years ago. Let that sink in." Our minor footballers play in the minor championship proper our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship so as you say "let that sink in"
Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 68 - 13/11/2024 12:30:28
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Replying To Albundy19: "Our minor footballers play in the minor championship proper our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship so as you say "let that sink in"" There is no other championship available in Leinster for the footballers so they have no choice. Believe me if there was a lower level minor football championship we would be there! Due to the fact we would only beat a couple of teams in Leinster any given year on a really good day at that
Gaa_supporter (Wicklow) - Posts: 20 - 13/11/2024 14:53:49
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Replying To Gaa_supporter: "There is no other championship available in Leinster for the footballers so they have no choice. Believe me if there was a lower level minor football championship we would be there! Due to the fact we would only beat a couple of teams in Leinster any given year on a really good day at that" In fairness, it's hard to disagree with you on this. We have won 1 Leinster minor championship in whatever amount of years since the minor championship was inaugurated and that was 50 yrs ago. 1974, if memory serves. We have never won an u20/1 so, you are very probably right. If there was a B or C in either grade we would very likely opt for them.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 13/11/2024 15:22:10
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Replying To Gaa_supporter: "There is no other championship available in Leinster for the footballers so they have no choice. Believe me if there was a lower level minor football championship we would be there! Due to the fact we would only beat a couple of teams in Leinster any given year on a really good day at that" I just browsed into this thread as it was top of the list when I went to the Forum page. Anyway, there is indeed a lower level minor football championship, that was introduced for the first time this year.
Difference is that it kicks in after the main provincial championship (like the Tailteann Cup), rather than teams being allocated to it from the outset (like for the minor hurling championship lower tiers, and the Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, etc. at adult level).
And yes, Wicklow competed in the bottom one of the three grades this year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2620 - 13/11/2024 15:22:52
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I just browsed into this thread as it was top of the list when I went to the Forum page. Anyway, there is indeed a lower level minor football championship, that was introduced for the first time this year.
Difference is that it kicks in after the main provincial championship (like the Tailteann Cup), rather than teams being allocated to it from the outset (like for the minor hurling championship lower tiers, and the Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, etc. at adult level).
And yes, Wicklow competed in the bottom one of the three grades this year." Think you are correct. The Leinster u17 was "graded" this year. The danger here for "weaker " counties is that this grading will become structured and permanent.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 13/11/2024 16:12:19
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I just browsed into this thread as it was top of the list when I went to the Forum page. Anyway, there is indeed a lower level minor football championship, that was introduced for the first time this year.
Difference is that it kicks in after the main provincial championship (like the Tailteann Cup), rather than teams being allocated to it from the outset (like for the minor hurling championship lower tiers, and the Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring, etc. at adult level).
And yes, Wicklow competed in the bottom one of the three grades this year." Yes but you can progress from lower grades to play teams from higher grades in both football and hurling though can't you? We beat Meath after losing to Wicklow and beating Carlow. Technically Wicklow, or ourselves, could've won the Leinster minor double if we won all our games?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13859 - 13/11/2024 17:02:33
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Replying To Viking66: "Yes but you can progress from lower grades to play teams from higher grades in both football and hurling though can't you? We beat Meath after losing to Wicklow and beating Carlow. Technically Wicklow, or ourselves, could've won the Leinster minor double if we won all our games?" I think the idea was to give teams a few games. A kind of round robin then get matched up with the stronger teams. I think Louth knocked us out and did they win Leinster ?
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 13/11/2024 22:04:34
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There was a element of grading in the main Leinster Minor Football Championship all right:
- two groups of four, where top two went straight to quarter-finals, and third went to a preliminary quarter-final
- one group of the "weaker" three of Wicklow, Wexford, and Carlow, where just the top two went though, and only to a preliminary quarter-finals.
As it happens, both Wicklow and Wexford won their preliminary quarter-finals. Wicklow beat Offaly, and Wexford beat Meath.
Both then lost their quarter-finals. Wexford lost to Dublin, and Wicklow lost to Louth. Louth then lost to Longford in the semi-final, and it was Longford who went on to win the final, beating Dublin there in a big shock result.
What I was referring to as a new tiered structure came into play after the provincial championships. And I stand corrected on it, because Wicklow competed in Tier 2 rather than Tier 3. It was the new All-Ireland competition:
- Tier 1 for provincial champions & runners-up
- Tier 2 for defeated semi-finalists and quarter-finalists. That's where Wicklow & Wexford went.
- Tier 3 for other teams.
However, despite what Albundy19 claims above about "our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship", Wicklow minor hurlers played in the main Leinster Championship proper too.
Just as in football, they were placed in the "weaker" side of it (Tier 2). But Tier 2 still provided a pathway for the two teams to emerge from it to play Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny or Wexford in a quarter-final.
Has to said they didn't fare very well in it, but they still played in the main championship rather than some sort of "minor C or even D" that doesn't exist. The Married With Children man might want to let that sink in, as he might say himself. :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2620 - 13/11/2024 23:07:16
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Replying To Albundy19: "Our minor footballers play in the minor championship proper our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship so as you say "let that sink in"" wicklow minor hurlers played in the leinster minor championship proper this year in a group with Offaly,Westmeath and meath, albeit they lost all three games, one narrowly. They have never had a good record at minor hurling but nonetheless continue to line out most times in the championship which deserves credit becasue hurling is starved of resources in wicklow.
preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 760 - 14/11/2024 00:24:37
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Replying To Freethinker: "I think the idea was to give teams a few games. A kind of round robin then get matched up with the stronger teams. I think Louth knocked us out and did they win Leinster ?" Could've done I lost track of it after we lost to Dublin. I think the format is pretty good. Minors from our counties are guaranteed more games, and if they beat minors from similar level counties they get the chance to test themselves against better ones. Our lads probably learnt more from losing to Dublin and Louth than they learnt from our game against eachother.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13859 - 14/11/2024 07:40:47
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There was a element of grading in the main Leinster Minor Football Championship all right:
- two groups of four, where top two went straight to quarter-finals, and third went to a preliminary quarter-final
- one group of the "weaker" three of Wicklow, Wexford, and Carlow, where just the top two went though, and only to a preliminary quarter-finals.
As it happens, both Wicklow and Wexford won their preliminary quarter-finals. Wicklow beat Offaly, and Wexford beat Meath.
Both then lost their quarter-finals. Wexford lost to Dublin, and Wicklow lost to Louth. Louth then lost to Longford in the semi-final, and it was Longford who went on to win the final, beating Dublin there in a big shock result.
What I was referring to as a new tiered structure came into play after the provincial championships. And I stand corrected on it, because Wicklow competed in Tier 2 rather than Tier 3. It was the new All-Ireland competition:
- Tier 1 for provincial champions & runners-up
- Tier 2 for defeated semi-finalists and quarter-finalists. That's where Wicklow & Wexford went.
- Tier 3 for other teams.
However, despite what Albundy19 claims above about "our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship", Wicklow minor hurlers played in the main Leinster Championship proper too.
Just as in football, they were placed in the "weaker" side of it (Tier 2). But Tier 2 still provided a pathway for the two teams to emerge from it to play Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny or Wexford in a quarter-final.
Has to said they didn't fare very well in it, but they still played in the main championship rather than some sort of "minor C or even D" that doesn't exist. The Married With Children man might want to let that sink in, as he might say himself. :)" Wicklow hurlers got annihilated the one year recently that they tried to step up if I'm not mistaken ,other than that they have been playing down , where as the footballers have been playing a decent level and not getting hammered,Let's be honest here.
Albundy19 (Wicklow) - Posts: 68 - 14/11/2024 09:04:05
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Replying To Albundy19: " Replying To Pikeman96: "There was a element of grading in the main Leinster Minor Football Championship all right:
- two groups of four, where top two went straight to quarter-finals, and third went to a preliminary quarter-final
- one group of the "weaker" three of Wicklow, Wexford, and Carlow, where just the top two went though, and only to a preliminary quarter-finals.
As it happens, both Wicklow and Wexford won their preliminary quarter-finals. Wicklow beat Offaly, and Wexford beat Meath.
Both then lost their quarter-finals. Wexford lost to Dublin, and Wicklow lost to Louth. Louth then lost to Longford in the semi-final, and it was Longford who went on to win the final, beating Dublin there in a big shock result.
What I was referring to as a new tiered structure came into play after the provincial championships. And I stand corrected on it, because Wicklow competed in Tier 2 rather than Tier 3. It was the new All-Ireland competition:
- Tier 1 for provincial champions & runners-up
- Tier 2 for defeated semi-finalists and quarter-finalists. That's where Wicklow & Wexford went.
- Tier 3 for other teams.
However, despite what Albundy19 claims above about "our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship", Wicklow minor hurlers played in the main Leinster Championship proper too.
Just as in football, they were placed in the "weaker" side of it (Tier 2). But Tier 2 still provided a pathway for the two teams to emerge from it to play Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny or Wexford in a quarter-final.
Has to said they didn't fare very well in it, but they still played in the main championship rather than some sort of "minor C or even D" that doesn't exist. The Married With Children man might want to let that sink in, as he might say himself. :)" Wicklow hurlers got annihilated the one year recently that they tried to step up if I'm not mistaken ,other than that they have been playing down , where as the footballers have been playing a decent level and not getting hammered,Let's be honest here."
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 187 - 14/11/2024 09:50:55
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